jerryh
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Post by jerryh on Feb 8, 2018 20:42:36 GMT -6
That head is just one part of this Beast and the 666 is referring to that head, not the actual Antichrist. It's revealing what we now see in front of us. An end time dominant political/religious world system who is partly supported by that head. It is pointing out the religious nature of that religion and as I pointed out, seems to be referring to Jesus himself. Not that it's saying he's the Antichrist or even whether worshipping him as god in itself is false. The False part and warning is primarily to the nation of Israel to be wary of Trump and not accept him as their Messiah. As far as the Church goes, they may have been deceived all along on a few key points that has brought them to this. When they wake up, they will be ashamed but His love will not fail even then.
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Post by fitz on Feb 9, 2018 6:41:05 GMT -6
Ah, I saw this in the other post....you seem to be saying that you think Trump is the Antichrist. Hmmm. I'd be lying if I didn't say I'd considered that. I don't think he is...but I have considered it.
All the warm, fuzzy feelings we patriotic Americans have about the #MAGA movement could very well be a snare. I mean, as Christians, we aren't looking for America to be great again...we are looking for our Lord & Savior to show the world that He is King and for His kingdom to be greater than any in His-story!
So as much as I love some of the moves Trump is making, i.e. draining the swamp, putting America first, etc., I am on guard so as not to be deceived.
Lord, help me (and all of us) to not be deceived by any man, no matter how "good" he seems to be. Help us to keep our eyes on Jesus. Amen.
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jerryh
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Post by jerryh on Feb 9, 2018 15:14:46 GMT -6
The church will go through the refining fire and foundations will wash away but the one thing you can cling to is that His love is very deep. Whatever measure you personally have been using to judge others around you will be used to judge yourselves. Those parables were prophecies as well as teachings. The landowner, all those where he comes back suddenly.. well it's officially too late for that but if we have gone full bore into this, this is our time to humble ourselves. He won't be returning like you thought but it's all good. You'll see.
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Post by fitz on Feb 9, 2018 17:10:04 GMT -6
Jerry, I feel like a dentist pulling teeth! I don't have a clue as to what you are telling us because your posts are quite cryptic. Can you please explain your view of how these last days play out? It would seem you have a somewhat unconventional take on all of it. Please enlighten us!
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jerryh
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Post by jerryh on Feb 9, 2018 18:58:16 GMT -6
Yes completely unorthodox. Basically, you're in the tribulation now and I don't see a rapture at all. I think the church is the religion that's supporting the Antichrist. That much seems pretty clear to me specially when you look at the false prophet or that second Beast. That is Pence and the imagery is what's skewing your perceptions. I can create a checklist but this lines up a lot more than probably the theories that have been circulating. Besides, you know it was sealed. Maybe it still is.
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Post by witness1 on Apr 3, 2018 7:28:53 GMT -6
Chuck Missler offers a short, possible understanding of the Mark of the Beast. Basically the same idea as the article I posted... that the letters John wrote down were perhaps not Greek letters at all and therefore convey another meaning. He also talks about how there are various ways to calculate gematria and that the Bible never uses gematria to convey the primary purpose of a passage.
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Post by klb on Apr 3, 2018 13:29:46 GMT -6
witness1 Well, that was super interesting!
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Post by witness1 on Apr 3, 2018 16:26:20 GMT -6
I thought so too! No idea whether this is correct, but gematria sure doesn't feel right either.
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Post by venge on Apr 14, 2018 11:08:44 GMT -6
I thought so too! No idea whether this is correct, but gematria sure doesn't feel right either. Whoever said it was? Sadly, many people use it because the way they are interpreting that particular passage seems to point to that. They are taking a literal translation of scripture and not thinking about what the writer actually meant. When we look at the Mark of the beast what does the scripture tells us. What is a number? What is a name ? What does it mean to calculate or count? In my opinion, The Mark of the beast is not that difficult. The emblem or symbol that is in the hand or the four head no one can know. But the mark can be found through Scripture. I will leave it there and not continue with any of my notes because if I said prior I’m not going to get into a fight or debate. I will leave it up to the rest of you.
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Apr 15, 2018 4:12:51 GMT -6
It occurred to me too venge that this Mark of the Beast thing is not so cookie cutter. In Revelation we see that God seals the foreheads of the bond-servants, and we have the names written in the Book of Life...so too we have this mark, and those who did or did not receive it, but do not all receive it? ..what it indicates to me, this "mark" is something way more meaningful than a tatoo or microchip. My reasoning is because I ask, Is there really a physical Book of Life with actual pages? are the names written in pencil so as to be erased? and there are many of these "books"? so too I ask the question of this "mark" thing. there is forehead sealing, or names written on foreheads... Rev 22 On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; 4they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads and in regards to the books..Rev 20: 12And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.so just like a name is written in the Book of Life, this mark of the beast parallels that somehow? While the beast that is in control of these peoples, these peoples involved/deceived in this beast system have that mark? is the mark a denotation of disobedience, lawlessness, evil, wickedness? is it like a destiny like how God chooses? (Romans 9:18) or are we seeing an entire scenario of man in general explained & shown by the angel to John? Is John seeing the spiritual warfare that was behind the scenes at the Apple eating event? (Eph 6:12)
[Revelation is not written in order from start to finish IMHO, sections are in order, and there is overlay and view points from different perspectives by John, I am convinced of this. BUT getting back to topic:]
it says in Rev 13 ALL receive this mark.. 16And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, the 'he' is this beast coming up out of the earth..not the sea11Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earthjust a reminder that the name Adam means earth... 26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
this "beast" from the earth makes the earth worship the first beast..whaaat? And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. How can a beast make the "earth" do anything? Sounds like the 'earth' is animate here, could this mean he makes the Adams, and those who dwell of Adam (the disobedient man) worship this first beast.. we know it is deception of some kind because a few verses later: 14And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life. This is just a thought tossed out here, but lets look at something:
Gen 2:7Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. and what about the word "sword"? Rev 19 21And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, Eph 6:17And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Heb 4;12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
I dont know but there is something here to sword and breath and life...and all this in regards to "earth"... literal? well I would have to say this one is full of what has been and is and is to come spiritually, having been and being played out in the flesh. I looked up the concordances of Rev 13:18 18Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.If you look up the definitions of the beast, it says animal, but also means brutal nature. and the word for man in this verse also refers to mankind.. so in essence it is a " brutal nature of mankind " which to me is that lawless heart of man. One that does his own thing apart from God. Thinks he can do it himself, or follows false teachings. even a person who says I can do this and this and this to get to heaven.... 1John 2:18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. ...Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth.. they went out from us...
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Post by mike on Apr 15, 2018 8:26:48 GMT -6
BSG I follow a lot of what except "Adam means Earth"? Is that a typo? Adam means man 100% of the time
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Post by venge on Apr 15, 2018 11:11:52 GMT -6
It occurred to me too venge that this Mark of the Beast thing is not so cookie cutter. In Revelation we see that God seals the foreheads of the bond-servants, and we have the names written in the Book of Life...so too we have this mark, and those who did or did not receive it, but do not all receive it? ..what it indicates to me, this "mark" is something way more meaningful than a tatoo or microchip. My reasoning is because I ask, Is there really a physical Book of Life with actual pages? are the names written in pencil so as to be erased? and there are many of these "books"? so too I ask the question of this "mark" thing. there is forehead sealing, or names written on foreheads... Rev 22 On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; 4they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads and in regards to the books..Rev 20: 12And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.so just like a name is written in the Book of Life, this mark of the beast parallels that somehow? While the beast that is in control of these peoples, these peoples involved/deceived in this beast system have that mark? is the mark a denotation of disobedience, lawlessness, evil, wickedness? is it like a destiny like how God chooses? (Romans 9:18) or are we seeing an entire scenario of man in general explained & shown by the angel to John? Is John seeing the spiritual warfare that was behind the scenes at the Apple eating event? (Eph 6:12)
[Revelation is not written in order from start to finish IMHO, sections are in order, and there is overlay and view points from different perspectives by John, I am convinced of this. BUT getting back to topic:]
it says in Rev 13 ALL receive this mark.. 16And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, the 'he' is this beast coming up out of the earth..not the sea11Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earthjust a reminder that the name Adam means earth... 26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
this "beast" from the earth makes the earth worship the first beast..whaaat? And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. How can a beast make the "earth" do anything? Sounds like the 'earth' is animate here, could this mean he makes the Adams, and those who dwell of Adam (the disobedient man) worship this first beast.. we know it is deception of some kind because a few verses later: 14And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life. This is just a thought tossed out here, but lets look at something:
Gen 2:7Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. and what about the word "sword"? Rev 19 21And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, Eph 6:17And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Heb 4;12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
I dont know but there is something here to sword and breath and life...and all this in regards to "earth"... literal? well I would have to say this one is full of what has been and is and is to come spiritually, having been and being played out in the flesh. I looked up the concordances of Rev 13:18 18Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.If you look up the definitions of the beast, it says animal, but also means brutal nature. and the word for man in this verse also refers to mankind.. so in essence it is a " brutal nature of mankind " which to me is that lawless heart of man. One that does his own thing apart from God. Thinks he can do it himself, or follows false teachings. even a person who says I can do this and this and this to get to heaven.... 1John 2:18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. ...Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth.. they went out from us...Barbie, I am excited for you. Because you are close in your understanding. You are searching the scripture and you have put a few things together. That is awesome. I will touch on some of your verses you used. Names on the forehead: It can be literal, as most take it, but can be figurative. As we wear God's name in our foreheads how does one wear the name of belial in their foreheads? Once that is solved, how does that transmit to our right hands and not the left? It is possible the figurative and the literal be both. Remember the right hand in those times was the hand that did everything. The dominant hand. Remember the passage Matthew 5:30 You don't cut it off, as this was figurative. But if your right hand is marked by belial see what the rest of the verse says. The whole body is not just our own body, but the body of Christ. All brethren. It has a dual meaning. The same for the foreheads. I am very happy you concluded the verse about the "he makes the earth and those who dwell in it worship the first beast". Good deductive logic on your part!! How can the earth make the earth worship the first beast? Well, I explained how in one of my threads, but that shows you in your point, if the earth is just 1 man (false prophet), and he makes the rest of the earth worship (the rest of mankind) the first beast. But if the 2nd beast comes from the earth and he is a man, and the others come from the earth and they are men as the text says, then who is the beast that does not come from the earth but from the sea? As men only come from the earth =P Now I give too much away. Back to the mark of the beast. I would say this. With the logic I just gave you above, use that logic and meaning to interpret what is a mark, what is a number, what is a man and what is a beast from the [sea]. Or I can give you a definition here how it relates very well with what is mentioned. This makes me excited!~! edit: Forgot to add when you said " If you look up the definitions of the beast, it says animal, but also means brutal nature. and the word for man in this verse also refers to mankind.. so in essence it is a " brutal nature of mankind " You are soo close its killing me. I want to tell you things but I think it fun that you find out yourself and remember to give God all the glory he deserves. If you discover the what I hold to be a truthful examination of his word, don't hide it. Don't sell it. Don't profit from it. Just put it out there and let others see even if they disagree. It is his word for sinners. Not your discovery for yourself only. Once I realized that awhile ago, I knew we are close to the time but the end is not by and by. You see, when it refers to a man, people assume its a specific singular man and it is his actual first name. But I have found this to be incorrect as you are now finding out. What is a man, what is a name, what is a count, what is a beast? The man is not 1 man. It is not the AC. It is mankind, it can be a specific racial part of mankind, it can be peoples, multitudes, a great assemblage are all definitions of man. Bah! Now you gonna make me give it up. OK just once for those who disbelieve. This is all I am giving, I am not giving it all lol. Too many people here that don't want knowledge and just want to fight. From my notes on the mark of the beast:
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Post by venge on Apr 15, 2018 11:18:35 GMT -6
BSG I follow a lot of what except "Adam means Earth"? Is that a typo? Adam means man 100% of the time All mankind come from the earth like Adam had. There are language translations that show examples of Adamah, a version of Adam, means earth or comes from the ground/earth
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Apr 15, 2018 15:55:55 GMT -6
Ditto, venge , that was what I was going to say...in regards to Adam...yes it does mean "man" but there is so much more.. we also know that when God "names" a name, it often has an 'H" added to it, Abram, to Abraham, namely...Sarai to Sarah... oh, my, had another epiphany on these two folk's names just now, but dont have time to comment more! google search:
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Post by cwood85 on Apr 15, 2018 19:27:16 GMT -6
venge I have done a lot of research on the word Anthropos in Greek for man or mankind. Here is the post that goes in depth in another thread. "3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?" It is interesting that the ESV translation translates the word to "that" instead of "the." In the greek it is definitely the (ho). NASB Version: Let no one in any way deceive you, for [it will not come] unless the apostasy (This is interesting the word apostasy/apostasia is translated this way. I know this word has been discussed frequently. My keyword study bible has some very interesting details regarding this word. In some other translations it is translated as the falling away or even departure. However it notes the verb that is used for this word is to place oneself away or stand away from someone. Not in the sense of removal either, but as a distance. It is used to mean the purpose of not incurring the dangers of that association. It states the understanding behind this was people who called themselves Christians on the outside, but once persecution started, these people no longer associated themselves as a Christian. In other words, those who are not really faithful.) comes first, and the man (or men as in humans/mankind?) of lawlessness (sin or opposed to Christ) is revealed, the son (this is also used for descendant (figuratively) anyone sharing the same nature as their Father. Who is described as sharing the nature of their father the devil? The pharisees/unbelievers who had no faith and relied on their works and status to be "holy" or do not believe at all) of destruction (this word is interesting as well in the Greek: apṓleia ("perdition") does not imply "annihilation" but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being. Not so much as a destroyed type of destruction.) , 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. I hope I am not coming across as being combative or anything of that sort, and I am no language expert. I just think there is a whole lot more to these verses than what is being understood. And I think from the above details given, that is somewhat clear. It is also interesting to note that anytime the word himself it is used in one of these verses, the verb in the language is actually neuter, not defining male or female. That is something I am looking more into. In regards to the Holy Spirit and our bodies being the temple of God and Paul being the one who is stating this in his letters that if he is referring to the temple of God wouldn't we naturally assume that is what he means? In other passages when Paul goes to the temple in Jerusalem, the word that is used is specifically for the temple (hieron) in Jerusalem or a physical location. However when he describes us as being the temple of God, he uses a different word entirely (naos: a temple, a shrine, that part of the temple where God himself resides. properly, a sanctuary (divine dwelling-place); a temple (sacred abode), the place of divine manifestation.) This is also the same word he uses to describe the one of lawlessness who is sitting in the temple of God in 2 Thess. 2:4. God will not be dwelling in the future/third temple that the Jewish people are trying to build. Naos only refers to a temple that God actually dwelling in. Hieron just means a temple building. Just some opinions and researching that I have done regarding these verses. Editing to comment on the quoted Revelation verses. The same word NAOS is used in those verses as well, not a physical temple building. So would that make the temple being measured us? Read more: unsealed.boards.net/user/112/recent#ixzz5CnJKjCSt
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