Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 5:30:35 GMT -6
It is my opinion and also my firm conviction that date setting has done more damage than good to the Body of Christ. Maybe there are some people who get ignited for Christ when considering dates. Possibly. But the question must be allowed: Is this more than a straw fire? Time will tell. By and large I dare saying that in most cases people end up discouraged if things do not play out as assumed. And then what?
It's OK to have expectations. I had / have too. But I would never, again: NEVER hang my expectations on dates, but on Jesus alone. Believers during all centuries expected the rapture during their lifetimes. Even Paul. Now we are 2000 years later.
And what would it be good for to know that the rapture would occur on a specific date? There is no guarantee that any person makes it to the next minute. We all should be ready THIS second and expecting Him anytime. Maybe I even can't finish this post, because of the rapture.... :-) Do we expect to get an extra reward if we were right on any proposed rapture date?
Maybe some of us are strong enough and do not mind, if their expectations do not match the reality. But I'm pretty sure, lots of (weak) believers suffer from these unfulfilled expectations.
So it is my strong conviction to be careful with any date speculations regarding the rapture in view of others.
|
|
|
Post by mike on Nov 27, 2017 7:43:13 GMT -6
Dennis/Stephan/et al...I want to interject one new piece of personal info here. My perspective perhaps shared by others as well...From around 2003 up until about a year ago I was not walking with the Lord. the great sign captured my attention. Why? Because I was able to say "the alignment of the stars is exactly what John wrote to us 2000 years ago, it is coming to pass". This "woke me up"! Now I will admit that when the 9/23 date was approaching I was beyond excited. Thought to myself "why should I consider anything beyond 9/24, no more work, no more planning anything, just heaven..." As the day approached many in the community (here) who had similar expectations, also began to caution with things like "what do we do on 9/24 or 9/25, etc". With that, although still excited, I began to look beyond that date and focus more (and more) on Him. With the help of others my knowledge of Him and faith began to grow. Dennis (not singling you out here) you seem to have a vast knowledge and plenty of life experience that would greatly benefit others here. I ask that you continue to share those experiences to help sharpen us and hopefully we do the same for you.
|
|
|
Post by stormyknight on Nov 27, 2017 10:53:17 GMT -6
@stephan I wonder, if this date setting thing might cause some or perhaps 'a great many' to fall away. I'm not real good with details in history, has there been what some consider to be a great falling away already? I know when I and my wife were in the WWCoG when it fractured there were some that said that THAT was the great falling away, which was one of the last straws to make me back away from that denomination. That they would believe that they and they only are the true believers. How great a show of arrogance it was to me. I know after 9/23, and the other dates that were put out there, I found my attention increasingly harder to focus. I still do, unfortunately. I still pray that the Father helps me with that. But it is hard. We humans are easily distracted. "oh look, something shiny!!" Also being faced with still having to go to work, pay bills, etc. I really want out of this job and I was hoping that the rapture was the ultimate 'relocation', you know what I mean? I just wonder if the longer that Jesus tarries, if that is what He is doing, the more people will be distracted and get bored and go back to their 'other' lives. Like 'oh well, He ain't coming for a long while, that was just fluke, or just a bunch of hype, I might as well see what this new TV series is about...' Where does the 'Falling away' fit into all of this? I know I've read it, but I haven't really heard anyone talk about. I was thinking it hasn't happened yet.
|
|
|
Post by dennislwatson on Nov 27, 2017 11:27:11 GMT -6
Dennis/Stephan/et al...I want to interject one new piece of personal info here. My perspective perhaps shared by others as well...From around 2003 up until about a year ago I was not walking with the Lord. the great sign captured my attention. Why? Because I was able to say "the alignment of the stars is exactly what John wrote to us 2000 years ago, it is coming to pass". This "woke me up"! Now I will admit that when the 9/23 date was approaching I was beyond excited. Thought to myself "why should I consider anything beyond 9/24, no more work, no more planning anything, just heaven..." As the day approached many in the community (here) who had similar expectations, also began to caution with things like "what do we do on 9/24 or 9/25, etc". With that, although still excited, I began to look beyond that date and focus more (and more) on Him. With the help of others my knowledge of Him and faith began to grow. Dennis (not singling you out here) you seem to have a vast knowledge and plenty of life experience that would greatly benefit others here. I ask that you continue to share those experiences to help sharpen us and hopefully we do the same for you. Thanks Mike. Based on what I have been reading here, I am predicting that, in fact, I will be singled out as we get towards the LAST day of the year. It will not be fun. That is why I am hoping for a rapture even before that. Though as yet I do not see a date with more glory in it than the glory associated with the LAST day of the year as I indicate with 16 Biblical reasons in my article. What I was really hoping was that this information would result in a ground swell of agreement and more and more watchers would say, "Yeah that's it" and would already be of one accord so that when the rapture occurs, the miracle of unity will not have to be such a jerky, whiplash, face palm kind of thing when we reach the throne room. There I am going to look at fellow incorruptibles and see if like me, they have red foreheads from numerous face palms. What I did not realize about this community is that it was so wounded by 9/23. Wounded by the occurrence of a sign? I am still wading through those wounds as I am repeatedly told about them as people look at my information and then say, "I am not going through that again!" I think the idea of having Pentecost END on THE LAST of a count of days and especially this count of days from September 23, 2017 IS BIBLICAL. This sign, and its date!!!!!, is a fulfillment of Amos 3:7 and is fully supported by three prophets: Enoch, the teacher, Moses, the law giver, and John the apostle about whom it was rumored that he would never die. By the way, why did John have that nickname? Yes I know the story but why did God allow this "rumor"? Because John is the Apostle who is the type of the Church. As a type of the Church, it was he who was beloved by Jesus. it was he who experienced for us in the Spirit what the rapture would be like in Revelation 4. It was he who told us about the incredible view of Heaven and the Lamb that the raptured Church will have in Rev. 5. It was he who told us what the Church will experience as we notice one of the beasts, call out and signal the four horsemen in quick sequential order in Rev. 6 and also very quickly, at the 5th Seal, the raptured Church, in Heaven for such a short time, now sees under the altar, the souls of those who expressed belief in God and were beheaded on earth as they were not a part of the rapture of the Church...and then...the sixth seal (I take a deep breath when I read about the sixth seal) there will be hard times on earth. I wonder if this is when the Church is invited to go back to their mansions and shut the door? If it is Saints, don't worry. Your Lord will come and visit. If you want to see what it will be like as you are in your mansions waiting for your Lord to come visit, read Song of Songs 2. And Oh! We have this Great God who uses Great Signs and this is the same God who LOVES to use the day for a year thing. Why? BECAUSE HE KNEW SAINTS SUCKED AT MATH! Day for a year. How many years after Enoch was born did he get raptured. Year 365! Now Saints do the mathematical trick where God is honored if you do it. Go ahead...change it....change the year 365 to a day, come on you can do it. "Day 365?" YES YES YES! How about day 365 in the year of the Great Sign? Come on guys. When you are done licking your wounds I will still be here and I hope I will have doubled the Biblical points I have already found. Look with me! Please!
|
|
tliml
New Member
Posts: 5
|
Post by tliml on Nov 27, 2017 11:31:17 GMT -6
Stormyknight, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3King James Version (KJV)
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
I believe that the falling away of the church of God has reached its apex. One just have to look around at all the false doctrines and people that has lost interest in the bible and the church to realize that. Then there is also the letter of Paul to the church of Laodicea (Colossians 2:1-5) which I think apply to this situation and our times.
|
|
|
Post by mike on Nov 27, 2017 12:45:54 GMT -6
dennislwatson ^^^ quite the opposite! Should you find someone on here singling you out (as in scoffing or "I told you so") please let one of us Mods know. That is not what this forum is about. Your thoughts and ideas are welcome as long as they in the bounds of the 3 rules. I too welcome the rapture prior to Dec 31, but if not by His grace & mercy I will remain faithfully watching, praying, hoping, discussing (both in person and on this site) His soon return and more importantly His great love towards my undeserved qualifications.
|
|
|
Post by dennislwatson on Nov 27, 2017 12:52:23 GMT -6
Hah! I just figured maybe I could take some of the heat off Scotty Clark. He's a good guy. Everyone knew we were talking about a sign. I am doing much worse than Scotty actually. I'm interpreting his discovered sign. That is the way it should work in the body. One believer discovers the sign, another interprets. Probably a good rule. Mike you are a decent fellow. Blessings
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2017 0:11:46 GMT -6
stormyknight and tlimlThe "great falling away" has always been something, followers of Christ stumbled upon and tried to interpret properly... Maybe we should start a different thread on that? In short, I found an interesting article on that here: www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/a-defense-of-the-rapture-in-2-thessalonians-23Besides the interpretation as rapture, I liken the falling away to the behaviour of the stock market. Even if you think stocks cannot go down further, they fall... It's exactly, whats happening with our society, isn't it? Our parents and grandparents were perturbed by things we today see as quite normal. We are distressed by things, where our youngsters use to say: so what? I don' t know when we reach the true level of the great falling away....
|
|
|
Post by dennislwatson on Nov 28, 2017 1:46:27 GMT -6
Stephan. Just want you to know. As for me, my favorite Narnia character, of course is Aslan. After that has always been Reepicheep. Thanks for that reminder every time I see you post. Blessings.
|
|
|
Post by dennislwatson on Nov 28, 2017 2:03:38 GMT -6
Stephan. I looked at the options presented in the Article. Very thorough. I did not get to his conclusion. I will tomorrow. But, here is my position and I will read the article with great interest to see if there is more weight for a conclusion different than my currently held position. As for the argument, the fact that the greek word "apostasia" SOUNDS LIKE "apostasy" but has not always meant that...is kind of interesting. I have held the position and waited to be moved from it but have not been moved from the position for decades that the translators of versions of the Bible PRIOR TO the KJV translation routinely translated the word "apostasia" as DEPARTURE. In fact, not just routinely, but without exception. It is the rapture in those versions. It is the rapture in context of 2 Thes. 2. However, sorry KJV only people, I think the KJV translators were not up to the task of translating and so they merely transliterated the text and this has given some, led by the error, the opportunity to claim that the Church is not awaiting Christ but is awaiting the revealing of the Anti-Christ. Yikes and Yuk. I do not want to meet the...person. No, the Church goes up and that is when Satan, with a war, is thrown down to inhabit some sack of bones and skin that will become the second hand copied but less powerful version of Christ on Earth, that men John in the Bible calls antichrist, in Rev. 9:11 more specifically it is Apollyon. Hmmm. Any Cern scientists here?
|
|
|
Post by mike on Nov 28, 2017 7:01:18 GMT -6
@stephan & dennislwatson - seems like the topic of the thread is starting to divert from Pentecost to Apostasy. If you would like to continue in the Apostasy direction we can start a new thread and I can move the last two posts to the Apostasy section. Lemme know. Thanks
|
|
|
Post by stormyknight on Nov 28, 2017 9:33:38 GMT -6
mike, it is interesting how these forum threads take on the likeness of their namesake. If one was to follow a thread from beginning to end, it would, indeed be curvy and divergent and cross itself many times, if long enough. Sometimes one might find a knot and the thread becomes locked! yikes! just an observation. But, yes, you might want to move the convo, if you feel it appropriate.
|
|
|
Post by mike on Nov 28, 2017 9:58:19 GMT -6
mike , it is interesting how these forum threads take on the likeness of their namesake. If one was to follow a thread from beginning to end, it would, indeed be curvy and divergent and cross itself many times, if long enough. Sometimes one might find a knot and the thread becomes locked! yikes! just an observation. But, yes, you might want to move the convo, if you feel it appropriate. True Stormy...I (we if I may speak for the other mods) dont mind a little divergence in topic as long as its related and eventually comes back to the "theme". We also have to consider the original poster reason for the thread...merely a suggestion at this point (on my end). Just trying to keep things somewhat organized
|
|
|
Post by waiting4theday on Nov 28, 2017 17:02:10 GMT -6
Imo looking for a date that the Lord might return is a fun thing to do. I love to get deeper into the word and searching for when he might return. When I see a date that has strong evidence as a possibility of his return I get excited and look for his return if it doesn't happen my faith isn't shaken, I am not disappointed because I know he will return one day perhaps very soon. I think that if you are a person that is looking at a date and it comes and goes and you are disappointed and "fall away" because it didn't happen then your faith was in the date not in Jesus Christ. These people that have fallen away after 9/23 or any other date probably didn't have strong faith in Jesus Christ imo. If a date comes and goes you should just look at it as the Lord giving us more time to win souls for him and give witness to others.
|
|
|
Post by thetimeoftheend on Nov 28, 2017 19:48:14 GMT -6
I have to agree with waiting4theday, if someone were to fall away from Christ because a date had passed, their faith was in the date. I was very excited about 9/23 and many of the days after, and I will be honest, I was disappointed when we were not raptured, baffled even. But I also understood that we were speculating on certain dates. Setting firm dates and making guarantees? I don't think it's a good idea, because we won't truly know until we get there. We are fallible humans. Here is what I do know, the great eclipse, the great sign of the woman were indeed signs, they were not nothing. We are told to keep watching, we are not to be in the dark. Jesus himself tells us in Rev 3:3 to watch so the we are not unaware of the hour he shall come upon us. Daniel Matson has a good article on whether or not we can know the day or the hour - this is why I see no problem with speculating as long as we have sound biblical support to go with it. watchfortheday.org/know.html
|
|