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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 12:42:30 GMT -6
What’s in a Name?
We left off with these lines:
For now, we have two men and their associated nations - split off from the kingdom, due to acts of rebellion that were still within the plan of God: Ishmael and Esau.
And we have one man, upon which the fate of the kingdom now rides - Jacob. A spoiled son who lies and cheats his way to being the father of Israel!
But God is not mocked. Injustice was done to both of Ishmael and Esau and we shall see that God is making things right - even in these latter days.
When Isaac gave Esau his blessing - he did what he could to undo the injustice done by Jacob. And so we see this these lines:
Gen 27:40 "By your sword you shall live, And your brother you shall serve; But it shall come about when you become restless, That you will break his yoke from your neck."
Isaac was prophesying in his blessing to Esau of a time that would come much later. You can add this piece of information to your list of things I am pointing out and asking us to keep in mind for later. God would bring about justice - even if it took until the 20st century to do so.
But, for now, we are following the kingdom. And in our story, the kingdom is held by Jacob, the supplanter (deceiver thief).
Life, for Jacob, was not easy after he deceived his father and betrayed his brother. His mother asked Isaac to allow Jacob to go to her home country (Syria) and let Jacob remain there for few days and possibly find a wife. Not knowing if Isaac would live to see Jacob’s return. Isaac reminded him of something he likely heard from his father:
Gen 28:3 "May God Almighty bless you and make you fruitful and multiply you, that you may become a company of peoples.
Gen 28:4 "May He also give you the blessing of Abraham, to you and to your descendants with you, that you may possess the land of your sojournings, which God gave to Abraham."
He mentions both the kingship and the sonship mandates. The rule and the birthright. But he leaves out the priesthood. Jacob was not yet to understand the priesthood.
On the way to Syria, Jacob took camp for the night and used a stone for a pillow. That night, the word of God came to him. God affirmed his promise He had made with Abraham and Isaac and promised that He would bring Jacob back to Canaan. Jacob, finally moved, and granted a little faith by his hearing of the word of God, humbled himself a little and promised that if God did safely return him to Canaan, then he would give God a tenth of all God gave him. How generous of Jacob. He had yet to learn that to truly be a Son of God, one must give all.
Side note: For those who are excited about the lore of some of these things - it is said that the stone Jacob used, eventually found its way to the British royal families and is actually the Stone of Scone. This goes outside the scope of this thread. But we may return to it eventually, just for fun.
Oh, but this rock and the pillar that Jacob built with it afterward, is where the kings of Israel would be crowned subsequently. Oh, and this place was called Bethel by Jacob - which means - the house of God. And so we have a Rock, upon which, the house of God is built and which remains in the midst thereof.
What would be a few days - turned into almost 21 years and began a pattern called by some as Jacob’s trouble. Jacob got a taste of his own medicine in dealing with Laban, but eventually freed himself of Laban’s deception and left Syria with two wives and a bunch of other treasure, animals, and people. All in all, Jacob left Syria and headed home with decent sized entourage in his camp. All was going great. He had his wives and riches. He was on his way home. He was to inherit all that his father owned. He was literally, the king of his own kingdom. And then he heard that Esau was on his way to “greet” him. With 400 men.
God had promised, 20 years earlier, to bring Jacob back to Canaan. Did God mean in a body bag?
So, Jacob decided it was time to clarify things with God and he went out to pray.
Gen 32:7 Then Jacob was greatly afraid and distressed; and he divided the people who were with him, and the flocks and the herds and the camels, into two companies;
Gen 32:8 for he said, "If Esau comes to the one company and attacks it, then the company which is left will escape."
Gen 32:9 Jacob said, "O God of my father Abraham and God of my father Isaac, O LORD, who said to me, 'Return to your country and to your relatives, and I will prosper you,'
Gen 32:10 I am unworthy of all the lovingkindness and of all the faithfulness which You have shown to Your servant; for with my staff only I crossed this Jordan, and now I have become two companies.
Gen 32:11 "Deliver me, I pray, from the hand of my brother, from the hand of Esau; for I fear him, that he will come and attack me and the mothers with the children.
Gen 32:12 "For You said, 'I will surely prosper you and make your descendants as the sand of the sea, which is too great to be numbered.'"
This may be the first indication of Jacob’s changing heart. “I am unworthy of all the lovingkindness and of all the faithfulness which You have shown”. Funny, how, when we are up against the sword - we find it easier to repent.
He split his camp into two companies - which you should put into your memory banks and we will come back to - and sent “presents” up ahead of him to try and appease Esau.
Gen 32:21 So the present passed on before him, while he himself spent that night in the camp.
Gen 32:24 Then Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him until daybreak.
Gen 32:25 When he saw that he had not prevailed against him, he touched the socket of his thigh; so the socket of Jacob's thigh was dislocated while he wrestled with him.
Gen 32:26 Then he said, "Let me go, for the dawn is breaking." But he said, "I will not let you go unless you bless me."
Gen 32:27 So he said to him, "What is your name?" And he said, "Jacob."
Gen 32:28 He said, "Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed."
Gen 32:29 Then Jacob asked him and said, "Please tell me your name." But he said, "Why is it that you ask my name?" And he blessed him there.
Gen 32:30 So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, "I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved."
Gen 32:31 Now the sun rose upon him just as he crossed over Penuel, and he was limping on his thigh.
Gen 32:32 Therefore, to this day the sons of Israel do not eat the sinew of the hip which is on the socket of the thigh, because he touched the socket of Jacob's thigh in the sinew of the hip.
Jacob was visited in the night by a messenger of God. An angel. In our moment of surrender, we often wrestle with our flesh. Our spiritual side in the very presence of God, our carnal nature hanging on for dear life. We think we are wrestling against sin. We are being good. We are casting off the old man. We are being holy. But all of this is the old man, the Jacob, wrestling. In the Kingdom walk - to fulfill the kingdom mandates, we must give up the fight and rest in the presence of God. And then we shall be like him and then:
Rev 22:3 There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him;
Rev 22:4 they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads.
Of course, this passage speaks of a corporate fulfillment - but each of us does this individually in our own walk:
1Co 13:10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.
1Co 13:13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.
WARNING - WARNING - WARNING: Key moment coming up in 3…2…1:
The next day, Esau approached - and the brothers hugged it out. But something is revealed about Israel’s new outlook. He says:
Gen 33:10 Jacob said, "No, please, if now I have found favor in your sight, then take my present from my hand, for I see your face as one sees the face of God, and you have received me favorably.
He now sees the presence of God in all the events that have transpired in his life - even in the face of his would be enemy. God has been in every part of it. It is all the work of God. God is absolutely sovereign and the sons of God know this. His will submits to no one.
Note: For those who kept up with the Restoration of All Things thread. There is a wonderful lesson in this portion of Jacob’s life, that demonstrates all 7 feasts from Passover to Tabernacles. That is not my point now, but it can be some other time.
Let’s take a moment to lock something into our understanding. We have seen how God directly gave Abraham his name. God directly gave Isaac his name. And God directly gave Israel his name.
These names existed before they were conveyed upon the men who walked under them. These names existed before they were pronounced over the the nations that bore their flags. These names are eternal and spiritual and the spiritual entities that are called by these names existed long before the physical shadows that we are aware of in the physical realm.
Israel existed spiritually long before Jacob received the name of Israel. Please let that sink in a moment. Seriously.
On Earth as it is in Heaven. It was in heaven, before it was on earth. This point will become key as we move forward in our understanding of what is happening today and what will happen in the near future and beyond.
That name was not created at that moment. The name means God Rules - or God is Sovereign. And when we come to the place in our journey where we cease to wrestle in the flesh, and see God as the ultimate and final authority - whom no other being can subject to their will - we too, become Israel. We too, become the barley. We too, become a Son of God.
So we have a kingdom now with a king who finally understands the spiritual nature. Now, surely, we will see the kingdom come down and be established on earth! Right?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 15:49:27 GMT -6
The Mandates Separate
Israel had twelve primary sons. As they grew up, it became obvious to Joseph’s brothers, that Joseph was beautiful in the eye of their father. Joseph was the first child from Rachel - Israel’s true love. You all know the story - at one point, Israel gave Joseph a garment (there is a subtle, wonderful study of all the garments in scripture - but not for this thread), a coat of many colors.
But Joseph was still learning to walk in Pentecost. He lacked humility and tact and eventually, he was brought down to the pit for some Pentecost fire from the Lord. The Lord used the hands of his brothers first, who killed a goat, and having placed the blood of the goat on the coat of Joseph, sent the coat to their father, Israel. We will see this picture again - won’t we! (Think: Day of Atonement, Think: Jesus' baptism, Think: Second coming, Think: Jubilee ----- Shout Hallelujah!!!)
Then the brothers sold their brother, Joseph to - of all people - the Ishmaelites - who brought him to Egypt - as Ishmaelites are prone to do. When Israel saw the blood soaked coat it began his second period of Jacob’s trouble - it would be another 21 years before he knew the fate of his son, Joseph.
Gen 37:27 "Come and let us sell him to the Ishmaelites and not lay our hands on him, for he is our brother, our own flesh." And his brothers listened to him.
Gen 37:28 Then some Midianite traders passed by, so they pulled him up and lifted Joseph out of the pit, and sold him to the Ishmaelites for twenty shekels of silver. Thus they brought Joseph into Egypt.
Gen 37:31 So they took Joseph's tunic, and slaughtered a male goat and dipped the tunic in the blood;
Gen 37:32 and they sent the varicolored tunic and brought it to their father and said, "We found this; please examine it to see whether it is your son's tunic or not."
Gen 37:33 Then he examined it and said, "It is my son's tunic. A wild beast has devoured him; Joseph has surely been torn to pieces!"
At this point, I’d like you to read Genesis 48, 49, and 50.
Yeah, that’s lots of scripture - but it is some good reading and I don’t want to fill the thread with the verses. When you come back, to continue, I will highlight certain verses below. Don’t forget to see the precious moments as you read. These were real people. Feel their experience as you read through it. Spend some time feeling the moment as you hear that Israel was buried with his fathers and his wife. Exclaim in exhalation when you see the whole procession of Egypt and Israel going out together to put Israel's bones to rest. Feel each moment and know that this is certainly a story about real people who had flaws just like you and I - put some music on in the background if it helps to get into the moment. But also - while you are reading - realize that God is not just giving you a history lesson - He is telling you the past - the present - and the future. He is showing you the spiritual reality through this physical history. And that should send chills down your spine at certain points in this story. See you in a bit…..
Wow! That was fast! I hope you were blessed in the reading of God's LIVING word. If you skipped ahead - you may have missed a blessing! Ok. Continuing….
As far as the Kingdom is concerned - the bottom line of what just happened was this:
1Ch 5:1 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel (for he was the firstborn, but because he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given to the sons of Joseph the son of Israel; so that he is not enrolled in the genealogy according to the birthright.
1Ch 5:2 Though Judah prevailed over his brothers, and from him came the leader, yet the birthright belonged to Joseph),
Judah received the Kingship - the sons of Joseph received the Sonship. Let's look at the blessing of Joseph a little closer.
Gen 48:10 Now the eyes of Israel were so dim from age that he could not see. Then Joseph brought them close to him, and he kissed them and embraced them.
Gen 48:11 Israel said to Joseph, "I never expected to see your face, and behold, God has let me see your children as well."
Gen 48:12 Then Joseph took them from his knees, and bowed with his face to the ground.
Gen 48:13 Joseph took them both, Ephraim with his right hand toward Israel's left, and Manasseh with his left hand toward Israel's right, and brought them close to him.
Who is in charge? Joseph thought perhaps he was, just for a moment. But as we will see: Free will - schmeee will.
Even when Joseph attempted to control the situation and place the elder son on the right side, so that he would receive the best blessing. Israel crossed his hands and caused a change of order. God is in charge! The first will be last - the elder shall server the younger, he who shall save his life shall lose it, who is the greater? To rule means to serve.......The message of the Sons of God.
Gen 48:14 But Israel stretched out his right hand and laid it on the head of Ephraim, who was the younger, and his left hand on Manasseh's head, crossing his hands, although Manasseh was the firstborn.
Gen 48:16 … Bless the lads; And may my name live on in them, And the names of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; And may they grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth."
Gen 48:21 Then Israel said to Joseph, "Behold, I am about to die, but God will be with you, and bring you back to the land of your fathers.
Gen 48:22 "I give you one portion more than your brothers, which I took from the hand of the Amorite with my sword and my bow."
So the original tribe of Joseph became the two tribes of his sons. With Ephraim holding the primary birthright. But we also see that with the birthright - comes the name, Israel. As further testimony, the name Ephraim means - Fruitful.
We also see that Judah received the kingship mandate. The ruler would come from Judah, the sons and name, Israel, would come from the sons of Joseph. And thus begins the physical moment when Israel and Judah began to separate and become two people. Those tribes associated with Judah as Jews. Those associated with Joseph as Israel. And remember again - these names and entities are heavenly first. So we see, on earth, the manifestation of what already existed in heaven. Before any of these nations, tribes, people, and men became called Israel or Judah - those names and their meanings were in the heavens. I need to keep that in the forefront of your minds.
Let’s look at the blessing for Judah:
Gen 49:8 "Judah, your brothers shall praise you; Your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies; Your father's sons shall bow down to you.
Gen 49:9 "Judah is a lion's whelp; From the prey, my son, you have gone up. He couches, he lies down as a lion, And as a lion, who dares rouse him up?
Gen 49:10 "The scepter shall not depart from Judah, Nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, Until Shiloh comes, And to him shall be the obedience of the peoples.
Gen 49:11 "He ties his foal to the vine, And his donkey's colt to the choice vine; He washes his garments in wine, And his robes in the blood of grapes.
Gen 49:12 "His eyes are dull from wine, And his teeth white from milk.
And for Dan:
Gen 49:16 "Dan shall judge his people, As one of the tribes of Israel.
Gen 49:17 "Dan shall be a serpent in the way, A horned snake in the path, That bites the horse's heels, So that his rider falls backward.
Gen 49:18 "For Your salvation I wait, O LORD.
And for Reuben:
Gen 49:3 "Reuben, you are my firstborn; My might and the beginning of my strength, Preeminent in dignity and preeminent in power.
Gen 49:4 "Uncontrolled as water, you shall not have preeminence, Because you went up to your father's bed; Then you defiled it—he went up to my couch.
And for Joseph:
Gen 49:22 "Joseph is a fruitful bough, A fruitful bough by a spring; Its branches run over a wall.
Gen 49:23 "The archers bitterly attacked him, And shot at him and harassed him;
Gen 49:24 But his bow remained firm, And his arms were agile, From the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob (From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel),
Gen 49:25 From the God of your father who helps you, And by the Almighty who blesses you With blessings of heaven above, Blessings of the deep that lies beneath, Blessings of the breasts and of the womb.
Gen 49:26 "The blessings of your father Have surpassed the blessings of my ancestors Up to the utmost bound of the everlasting hills; May they be on the head of Joseph, And on the crown of the head of the one distinguished among his brothers.
We will be coming back to these blessings - we will discuss Shiloh - and how this connects to our story of the kingdom. We will also discuss this fruitful son who has a bow and wears a crown: this mighty Son of Israel from whom the Shepherd rises as the very Stone of Israel!
Sometimes I feel that God is just shaking us! Are you with me? Do you feel the Joy! Can you see your destiny beginning to take shape?
When Israel died, the brothers were worried that they would be punished by Joseph. But the experiences of Joseph had brought him through Pentecost completely. He had obtained Sonship and so he did not operated in the ways of the flesh. He listened to God, abiding in His character. And so he responded:
Gen 50:19 But Joseph said to them, "Do not be afraid, for am I in God's place?
Gen 50:20 "As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.
Gen 50:21 "So therefore, do not be afraid; I will provide for you and your little ones." So he comforted them and spoke kindly to them.
Knowing God was in charge of it all. God Rules. God is Sovereign. And knowing God as the one who saves, restores, and provides - Joseph had become Israel. And here he asks a rhetorical question - am I in God's place? The irony is- we are all supposed to answer, no. But that is the wrong answer - YES. He was in the place of God at that moment - because he was demonstrating what it is like to be one with the Father and to do only His will.
Much later, when the tribes arranged themselves around the tabernacle. Dan was in the north, Reuben in the south, Ephraim was in the west, and Judah was in the east. These were the four central tribes. And the symbols on their shields / banners were: Judah - the Lion, Ephraim - the Bull, Reuben - the Man (or Son), and Dan - the Eagle
Does it surprise us to see this:
Rev 4:6 …. around the throne, four living creatures full of eyes in front and behind.
Rev 4:7 The first creature was like a lion, and the second creature like a calf[bullock], and the third creature had a face like that of a man, and the fourth creature was like a flying eagle.
Well, we have finished Genesis. The kingdom mandates have separated: Judah carries the Kingship mandate and sons of Joseph carry the Sonship mandate. The Priesthood mandate is hidden in mystery along with the kingdom of God which has become a distant memory, of a time long ago, in the early morning dew of the garden, when once - we walked with God. May He brings us home!
And now, when you exclaim Maranatha! You are appealing to that moment when the Lord returns on a white horse wearing a robe dipped in blood - as he fulfills the prophetic blessing of Israel placed upon his Son Joseph.
I promise - we are getting somewhere. I hope you are enjoying the journey!
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Dec 22, 2017 16:46:12 GMT -6
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 22, 2017 22:22:48 GMT -6
Enjoying thoroughly @silentknight. Read Genesis 48-50 (which are some of my favorite passages) this evening and how refreshing and deep! There is a lot going on there, but I took in a lot more than I ever have before. So much good stuff in this thread!
Just so I am prepared, will I need to be buying another ream of paper?
;-)
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 22, 2017 22:25:57 GMT -6
Amen! My son started kindergarten this year and I was so happy when I heard the full pledge of allegiance read over the schools PA system. I stopped in the hall with my hand over my heart and a tear in my eye and thanked the Lord his school did this and hasn't caved to completely eliminating God in every way possible. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2017 9:49:18 GMT -6
Blindness
I’m going to take a moment to discuss blindness. Throughout my threads, I have made comments about how we have been led astray by the traditional teachings and that over the years we have been so indoctrinated into certain ways of thinking that it becomes very difficult for us to see truth. One could make an assumption that I am saying, “Well, after 1900 years of brilliant servants of the Lord having taught us, I alone know the truth and am here to set things straight.” I hope that no one is thinking anything that, but I thought it might be helpful for me to shed some light in this area of blindness. “Hmmmm. So now he is going to tell us we are so blind we don’t understand blindness itself.” Ok. I see the irony. Let’s carry on anyway! Blindness is a spiritual condition. It is brought on by not hearing the word of God. For more on hearing the word of God, please see the Hearing God thread. From that thread, you will see the many things that prevents us from hearing God and what we can do about it. Blindness is caused by God. Man can contribute toward his own blindness and he can be ignorant of his blindness - but he cannot make himself see. When we are blind we walk in darkness. But we don’t know it is dark. We may even believe that we have great understanding. As we begin to hear the voice of God in our lives, and respond in faith, we begin to see the light - the truth. Small flickers of truth that also bring to us the realization that we are blind in many other areas. Through walking in faith that comes from hearing God, our blindness can diminish. And over time, many areas of our life in which we were blind are added to the areas that now, we can see. Even then, we may remain blind in many other areas. This is a very sensitive situation. As we gain sight, we gain idols. Some of these idols are the very things we have been shown. And then there is the idol of pride. If God is talking to me and now I see something that others don’t see, that must mean I am special somehow. This prevents us from seeing just how blind we still are in other areas. We must know that God’s message will go forth - even if He chooses to use donkeys or rocks to spread it. I believe this is the reason that God had me “learn” for 16 years before He gave me the green light to go forward with some of the things I teach. It wasn’t so much that what I mentally understood changed significantly over those years. It was more my attitude of heart that needed to come into submission to Him. That is a death I must die every day. The message is one thing - the heart of the messenger is another - and both must be molded by God. God will often suddenly give us truth. But he almost never forces us to change. It does happen - but it is much more rare. God’s preferred method is to slowly mold people over the course of many years and many experiences. Truth sets us free - learning how to walk in that freedom is a process. Blindness serves a purpose. Remember - the primary idol of the last 1500 years is the idol of hell. The concepts of annihilation and endless torment have shaped our perspective of God so much that every little thought of Him and His ways is clouded by hell. For instance, when we think of being blind, we immediately attach negativity to it. We often feel the blind person is bad in some way. We think this because we see God as a punisher - even a spiteful punisher. It is only when we start to see God as someone who will restore and save all that we begin to see the value of blindness. Now, don’t get me wrong, God’s desire is that we all see in full. And He will bring us to that point. But there is a process - as always. In the meantime, we know that Jesus spoke in parables - so that people would not understand and believe! We know that God sent a lying word through the mouth of his prophet. We know that God has blinded the eye of his servant. To some that shows that God is the monster they thought He was which is why He purposely keeps people blind so that they go to hell. But to others, they see that the blindness of the people during the time of Christ was necessary in order for Him to be put to death. And if He was not put to death He could not have saved the very people He was blinding. Nor anyone else. To others we see that God was sending a lying spirit because of the idols in the hearts of the prophets and that by giving them what they asked for, He was able to teach them about the idols in their heart and cleanse them. To others we see that even though God blinded the eye of His servant,Israel, it was done in order to bring the gentiles into the kingdom. We also see this: Exo 21:26 "If a man strikes the eye of his male or female slave, and destroys it, he shall let him go free on account of his eye.
For those of you who have been on this journey with me for the last few weeks, you will see the spiritual beauty in this portion of the “law”. You see, if God blinds His servant - and He claims he does, then by His own law, He must let that servant go free! And so He will. But because the law cannot completely capture the amazing character of God - He will not only set His servant free - He will also restore his sight! Blindness is a form of protection. Many times we are kept from understanding something, because once we understand it, we are held accountable to that understanding. Perhaps we should be glad that He has blinded Christianity in many ways. Over the years, I have grown in my understanding of my own blindness and the blindness in others, both individually and corporately. For some, being blind is a gift from God. Each of us must walk in the faith we are given and I am no longer critical of those who cannot see things that I think are obvious. There is a purpose to it all and because of who I know God to be, I also know that it is just a matter of time before we all are granted full sight. My purpose is to challenge the beliefs - not the people who hold those beliefs. So when you catch me saying something against traditional teaching, please know that I recognize my own blindness in many areas. I have been given a little light that I believe God wants His people to hear. I do not ever mean to imply that those that teach otherwise are not sincere in their walk with the Lord. However, I will come on strong against the doctrines of men that cast my God as a monster and destroy the understanding of His people. Ok. I'll get right back into Kingdom stuff later today....
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Post by mike on Dec 26, 2017 10:20:10 GMT -6
This is something that I believe God has opened my eyes to over the last several years (it is a process for sure). I can look at some and say/realize "they just don't see what I see" and at the same time I realize "perhaps it is me who doesnt see what they see". As I approach people and situations with that attitude it has helped me relate to people much better. However I do agree that as I learn more about God's character I realize how flawed I really am and endeavor to extend grace to others as He extends it to me. Problem is I fail all too often, yet I want others to see Gods character.
At times I also think about being accountable of what God has shown me and think about "wow why me?, now I'm accountable". Again God has a purpose for all of us and as we seek Him we can learn more and more about that over time.
Practical example - Christmas Eve my sister-in-laws son was supposed to bring stuffed mushrooms to the gathering. Not only was he 1.5 hrs late, he did not bring them. While several of his family members gave him "the business" for this I observed the dialogue as he defended his inactions with multiple excuses. Finally after about 5 minutes of him being ribbed and defending why he didnt do what he said he would (including him saying theres too much food here anyway) I spoke up "young man (he's 23) I want to help you understand what is happening here. You made a commitment to do something and decided you couldnt do it. The best response you could give to everyone now is 'you're right, i'm sorry i didnt bring the stuffed mushrooms, please forgive me' ". Unfortunately he decided that was beneath him and continued with the same line of thinking defending his inactions. My intent to show him how humility, and asking for forgiveness would end the situation. While he did not I hope the Lord reminds him of these words, open his eyes and convicts his heart to bring change.
I say this not to be critical of his lack of vision but as an example of peoples blindness. I do not judge him, rather pray for him, however what I do not know is what God has in store for him, nor do I know why he is blinded at this time.
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Dec 26, 2017 12:15:19 GMT -6
What I find most frustrating about Blindness is being unable to do anything about it to help someone. A friend of mine dealing with a person we both feel is not walking with the Lord, as an example. I can explain what I am seeing in the behavior of the said person and can confidently tell her that this person is blind to the Truth, and then not sure what else can be done. And we pray then. We can target our prayers to some of the specific blindnesses, or so we think this is the right thing to do. Is that what we are to do?
But it is more difficult when it is between Believers (Followers of Christ). As I am feeling enlightened by what Sk is saying in his 3 threads, I am excited to share. But to those who I want to share with, some have way more knowledge of the Word. It is an intimidating position to be in.
How about this analogy: I equate our Christian Walk as following a GPS. So many of us that have one of these devices become so reliant on them that they have lost the ability to think on their own, discern where west is by the location of the sun, look to landmarks both near and far to get to said destination. Instead, they are spoonfed right and left turns, even to the point of a count of feet to the destination. Those who use GPS systems are going to find themselves lost one day when the GPS system fails. People get lost coming to our place when they use the GPS because 2 driveways are near each other and many then anticipate that 1st turn. I tell them to NOT use any GPS device and LISTEN to my directions. I tell them they are easy, paved roads to get here, and there isnt even a stop light, nary a stop sign. Yet there they are, on the wrong side of the fence...
We live in the country. All our vehicles are manual. No gadgets to help us back up, the pickups dont steer themselves, and the most automatic thing is the windows & door locks. My husband can still fix the engines of these vehicles, and so all are well over 300,000 miles. Yet we value these dinosaurs of pickups. I know the very ins and outs of them myself!
If this is what you are trying to tell us SK, I am listening. I hope at this point I am on a journey with the Lord, in a car I know how to "fix if it breaks down", and that keeps me on the "correct side of the fence."
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2017 12:37:45 GMT -6
The Kingdom Splits
When we left off, we had the Kingship and Sonship mandates separated into two tribes. Judah held the right of the scepter - that is the Kingship. The sons of Joseph held the right of the birthright - the name, Israel - that is Sonship.
As long as these tribes were together, they were all attached to the same kingdom and this kingdom would have authority to produce both the King and the Name.
As a reminder, these names were meaningful in heaven long before they became real on earth. What was happening on earth was a reflection of what was in heaven. As names were added unto the name, Israel, they were truly being added to a heavenly name. On earth, it was the physical genealogy that seemed to be producing the name and the king. But a much deeper spiritual reality was happening at the same time. Even strangers, not born of Israel or his sons, had the right to join the tribes. They simply needed to agree to the ways of Israel and be circumcised. Through this act of obedience, they became Israel physically. This was a reflection of a heavenly Israel that was also adopting sons into its kingdom. As men and women walked in obedience to the word of God in their life.
So yes, we had physical Israel - but this was but a shadow of the heavenly Israel that was being established.
Back to this world - our kingdom family is forced to move to Egypt to avoid the famine that was throughout the land. In so doing, they reunited with their brother and son Jospeh. But they also brought about their own enslavement to Egypt. From a symbolic point of view - Egypt, in scripture, represents sin and death. It is the very depths of carnality. And God hid his people here for a time in order to protect them from famine and the conquering force of other nations and so that, eventually, He could magnify His name in all the earth!
All in all, Israel was in captivity to Egypt for 210 years. I know that most will tell you 400 or 430 years. But, a careful analysis of the years will reveal that this was, once again, a period of Jacob’s trouble. This time on a national level and therefore multiplied by 10.
When the Israelites finally were freed from bondage to sin - I mean Egypt - at Passover, God closed one age and opened the age of Passover upon the earth. The Hebrew children then proceeded to Pentecost where they refused to allow the fire of God burn off their flesh and sent Moses to intercede for them instead.
Another reminder: This is not just a history lesson. We are establishing that there was a calling on this people - the calling was to manifest the Kingdom of God on Earth. The calling was to produce the Messiah King, the Sons of God, and the Priesthood of the Most High God. And from this manifestation - to bless all the nations of the earth by turning the people from their sin and teaching them righteousness. Remember what the promise was to Abraham?
Gen 12:2 And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing;
Gen 12:3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."
A great nation - Kingship, your name Great - Sonship, blessing - Priesthood.
And furthermore, all families would eventually be blessed. And in the economy of God - to be blessed means to turn from sin.
Act 3:24 "And likewise, all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and his successors onward, also announced these days.
Act 3:25 "It is you who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, 'AND IN YOUR SEED ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE EARTH SHALL BE BLESSED.'
Act 3:26 "For you first, God raised up His Servant and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways."
We are not blessed by being made happy, or rich, or wise, or loving. We are blessed by being made righteous.
Now, I am about to make a connection that is not taught today. See if you recognize that another way of saying what I have said in the last few paragraphs would be this:
to finish the transgression,
to make an end of sin,
to make atonement for iniquity,
to bring in everlasting righteousness,
to seal up vision and prophecy and
to anoint the most holy place.
You prophecy students will immediately recognize that scripture. It is from Daniel 9. Gabriel is defining for Daniel the calling of His people. This had been the calling of Israel since Adam, but in particular since Abraham, and formally, since Moses’ Pentecost. So far in our story, the earthly Israel had failed to produce on the calling. Gabriel told Daniel, they had 70 "weeks" to fulfill this calling. Yes, I realize that this is not how you have heard that interpreted before. But then again, I am not here to repeat what others have taught! I will also show you that those 70 "weeks" have come and gone. Yes, all 70 of them.
On the day of Atonement, 16 months later, Israel stood on the banks of the Jordan and prepared to enter into the Promised Land. Had they done so, I believe they would have been changed, in a twinkling of an eye, into their spiritual bodies and proceeded to conquer the land with the gospel of Peace using the sword of the spirit - ushering in the Age of Tabernacles. Over time, the whole earth would have submitted to the truth of the spirit.
But that was not meant to be - instead, salvation was expanded to a larger group and the kingdom would need to wait longer to come to earth. Instead of conquering with the sword of the spirit - they resorted to the sword of the flesh. Hmmm - sounds like so many of us today. Sounds like what so many of us think God is going to do, too. Hmmmm. Perhaps we don't see God correctly. Wouldn't you rather be like Joshua?
So Joshua, who wanted to walk in faith at that moment - was destined, instead to lead Israel into the promised land 38.5 years later. Instead of establishing a tabernacles age, they crossed at Passover and remained a Passover kingdom. But God still left us plenty of hints to understand what was taking place.
Num 13:6 from the tribe of Judah, Caleb the son of Jephunneh;
Num 13:8 from the tribe of Ephraim, Hoshea the son of Nun;
We see here, the leaders of the tribes. The ones we are interested in are the two men who were walking in the faith of the word of God in their lives. Caleb and Joshua. And yet, this scripture calls Joshua, Hoshea. Like all who would be Israel - they require a name change. And so Moses changed Hoshea’s name to Joshua. And it is proper that he was from Ephraim and Caleb was from Judah. God had arranged that the two who represented HIM were from the tribes of Judah and Ephraim so that they had the authority to carry forth both the Kingship and Sonship. Moses, himself, and his broher Aaron, were of the tribe of Levi - the priesthood.
When Moses was 120 years (120 jubilees?) - the children of Israel entered the Promised Land under the Leadership of Joshua (Jeshua). Praise God! Their corporate Pentecost was over after 40 years (40 jubilees?) in the wilderness. But they would not manifest the Heavenly Kingdom on earth at that time.
Eventually, Saul would reign and represent Christianity(Wheat). David would reign and represent the Overcomers (Barley). Solomon would reign and build the earthly temple - a reflection of a heavenly temple only completed after the work of the wheat and the barley. But when Solomon died, that which had been prophesied by the separation of the mandates 700 years earlier, took place at a kingdom level on earth.
1Ki 11:29 It came about at that time, when Jeroboam went out of Jerusalem, that the prophet Ahijah the Shilonite found him on the road. Now Ahijah had clothed himself with a new cloak; and both of them were alone in the field.
1Ki 11:30 Then Ahijah took hold of the new cloak which was on him and tore it into twelve pieces.
1Ki 11:31 He said to Jeroboam, "Take for yourself ten pieces; for thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, 'Behold, I will tear the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon and give you ten tribes
1Ki 11:32 (but he will have one tribe, for the sake of My servant David and for the sake of Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen from all the tribes of Israel),
1Ki 11:35 but I will take the kingdom from his son's hand and give it to you, even ten tribes.
1Ki 11:37 'I will take you, and you shall reign over whatever you desire, and you shall be king over Israel.
1Ki 12:16 When all Israel saw that the king did not listen to them, the people answered the king, saying, "What portion do we have in David? We have no inheritance in the son of Jesse; To your tents, O Israel! Now look after your own house, David!" So Israel departed to their tents.
1Ki 12:17 But as for the sons of Israel who lived in the cities of Judah, Rehoboam reigned over them.
1Ki 12:19 So Israel has been in rebellion against the house of David to this day.
Let’s take note of where the prophet Ahijah was from: Shiloh. We’ll be coming back to Shiloh when we discuss the glory of God.
So here we see that once again, a garment is used to prophesy. In this case, Ahijah tore the cloak into 12 pieces and told Jeroboam to choose 10 pieces for himself. Because “I will tear the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon.” But Judah would get to keep one other tribe with him, which ended up being Benjamin. So now we have 10 tribes under Jeroboam and the tribes of Judah and Benjamin under Rehoboam.
From this point on in scripture, we have two physical entities to which prophecy is applied. Judah and Israel. Israel in the north with 10 tribes and the birthright - the Sonship mandate - the authority to call themselves Israel. Judah in the south with 2 tribes and the scepter - the Kingship mandate - the authority to bring forth kings and eventually, the King of Kings Himself.
Judah took as its capital, Jerusalem. Israel’s capital was Shechem, and eventually, Samaria.
Although some members of each tribe slipped into the opposing kingdoms. The heads of the tribes and the official tribes themselves remained loyal to their individual kingdoms.
Let’s take a moment to set this firmly in our minds:
Israel with 10 tribes including the sons of Joseph were in the north.
Judah with Judah and Benjamin were in the south.
Israel now carried the mandate to bring forth the Sons of God and carried the authority to the birthright name: Israel.
Judah now carried the mandate to bring forth the King.
Israel carried the Kingdom. but could not produce a king. Judah could not produce sons or use the name, Israel.
This earthly situation reflected a heavenly kingdom. The heavenly names of Judah and Israel had their own members. This membership was based on the personal walk with God that each individual was experiencing and had nothing to do with their genealogy.
To be Judah meant to love the Lord and trust the king for his redemption.
To be Israel meant to walk with the Lord and, in faith, hear and obey his Word.
To be Judah meant to be alive in God. To be Israel meant to be dead to yourself.
In the modern vernacular - to be Judah was to be a believer. To be Israel was to be an overcomer.
Since the beginning - men and women have been being added to these heavenly tribes. When Jacob became a member of Israel. It was not because of his genealogy, but because of the character that God had develop in him. He became Israel.
Even today, men and women are being added to these tribes.
Rom 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
Rom 11:18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
Rom 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Rom 11:22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
These are the heavenly tribes that Paul is talking about. No one is grafted into the physical tribes. The physical tribes were ALWAYS a mere reflection of the heavenly. They were never meant to be the tribe to which we aspire. We do not hope to become part of physical Israel or physical Judah. We are mindful only of the spiritual. And that relationship is based on our walk of faith.
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
Even those who call themselves Jews today are not Jews in the heavenly tribes. They are merely physical Jews.
There are still a couple levels of confusion we need to define so we can fully appreciate the level of complexity involved in understanding the prophesies.
We have the northern Kingdom of Israel and people who were foreigners and people who were from Judah and Benjamin and Levi moved into this northern kingdom and called themselves Israelites.
We have the southern Kingdom of Judah and people who were foreigners and people who were from the remaining 10 tribes (and some from Levi) moved into this southern kingdom and called themselves Judahites. Eventually, they called themselves Jews.
Now - flash forward to the 20th century. A group of people move to the old land of Canaan and give themselves the name Israel. Who are they? Do they have the right to call themselves Israel? Do they own the birthright? Do they own the scepter? Which prophecies, if any, apply to modern day Israel?
If we see a prophecy in scripture about Israel - who is the prophecy for? Is it for:
Modern Israel?
Physical 10 tribes?
Spiritual Israel?
If we have the following entities:
Physical Judah
Physical Jew
Physical Israel
Physical Israelite
Modern Israel
Esau
Ishmael
Spiritual Israel
Spiritual Judah
Jerusalem
New Jerusalem
Shiloh
Zion
Babylon
Christianity
Overcomers
Hagar
Sarah
- who are they today? Where are they today?
Now that we have set a foundation. We will begin to answer these questions in our next post. We will also trace the glory of God and the places that God has put His name. And the places from which He has removed his name. We will also take a look at figs and how they play into all this.
For most teachers, they do not differentiate these “Israel’s” at all. Many don’t even differentiate prophecies for Judah, Israel, Jerusalem, Zion, etc. They have not understood the history of the Kingdom, they do not see the Spiritual Kingdom, and typically, their goal is to get believers off this earth and into heaven instead of bringing the Heavenly Kingdom to earth. They do not understand the mandates.
But the mandates are still very real in the eyes of God and He is still expecting that they be fulfilled!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2017 16:54:53 GMT -6
The Lost Kingdoms
In 721 BC, Assyria conquered Israel and took the 10 northern tribes into captivity back to Assyria.
In 604 BC, Babylon conquered Judah and took the 2 southern tribes into captivity back to Babylon.
There are a some miraculous timings in these events that point us to our generation. But that is outside the scope of this study. Perhaps we will come back to this at some point. For this study, we find that the mandates had failed, or at least they seemed to.
What happened to Israel:
Israel ceased to be called Israel and was referred to according her most recent king, Omri - or as it was pronounced Ghomri / Gomer. What happened to these people is up for debate even to this day.
There are three main theories:
1. The people of Israel merged back into captured Judah and later continued to move back into “free” Judah.
2. The people of Israel disappeared from history.
3. The people from Israel migrated north over the Caucasian mountains and settled in the forests of Europe - eventually forming the modern nations of Europe and America.
There is evidence to support each of these claims. But the most significant historical evidence supports the options 2 and 3. The little biblical evidence available indicates that at least a small portion of some of these 10 tribes made it back to Judah. But the same biblical evidence seems to indicate that it only a remnant or small portion of those tribes returned.
For our purposes, it does not matter which way you choose to accept. I lean toward the third even though most people call it non-sensical. I have found that most people who find it non-sensical have dismissed it because of others who have taught it, rather than an actual deep historical study themselves - maybe they read a book. Also, the people who have been writing most of the history tend to favor a solution that supports the non-existence of these 10 tribes as separate from the modern day Jews. Why would historians care? Because a lot of hope has been placed on the 12 tribes being back in the land. Therefore, history is tough to trust. But the timing patterns are very curious. Also certain historic elements strongly support option 3. Many will tell you this is “British Israelism” and dismiss it. But rather than comparing it to some other teaching, let’s just let the scriptures and history speak for themselves. I don't intend to prove this out at this point, though I could be convinced.
But it really doesn’t matter - other than something really cool might be happening below the surface:
What is important is that Option 1 has very little historical or biblical support if any. The majority of the 10 tribes are still “lost.” They do not even know who they are and they are not aware that they are Israel. But it is not genetic Israel that is important - it is spiritual Israel. For the time being, physical Israel has been grafted out - so to speak.
What happened to Judah:
Judah, on the other hand, came back home. But were never really free, always under the dominion of one nation or another. They began to rebuild their city and temple and live in the land of Judah for centuries. Eventually, in 126 BC, they conquered Edom[Idumea] and forced the Edomites to merge with the Jews, both politically and religiously. We see this:
From Josephus:
“Hyrcanus took also Dora and Marissa, cities of Idumea, and subdued all the Idumeans; and permitted them to stay in that country, if they would be circumcised, and make use of the laws of the Jews; and they were so desirous of living in the country of their forefathers, that they submitted to the use of circumcision and the rest of the Jews’ ways of living; at which time therefore, this befell them, that they were hereafter no other than Jews.”
From The New Standard Jewish Encyclopedia:
“The Edomites were conquered by John Hyrcanus who forcibly converted them to Judaism, and from then on they constituted a part of the Jewish people, Herod being one of their descendants. Jewish history. The name in the Talmud is a synonym for an oppressive government, especially Rome; in the Middle Ages, it was applied to Christian Europe.”
Remember - Edom is Esau. And so, now that Judah had incorporated Edom into themselves, they also took upon themselves the prophecies that had yet to be fulfilled by Esau / Edom. One such prophecy was this:
Gen 27:40 "By your sword you shall live, And your brother you shall serve; But it shall come about when you become restless, That you will break his yoke from your neck."
But in 70 AD, Judah / Edom was distributed to all the nations when Rome destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. This began a long period of wandering for the Jewish people. Many of them settled the northern European countries - including large portions of Russia.
In 1917, Canaan fell under British control and in 1948, Judah/Edom was given the right to set up a Jewish homeland in the land of Canaan. Esau would finally break the yoke of Jacob and be in charge of Canaan - his original intended inheritance that was stolen from him. And so it is only fitting that when Judah and Edom came back to the land, that they too would use deception and call themselves Israel - something they could not legally do without the official tribe of Ephraim.
God has given Canaan to Esau in these last days, to provide justice to Esau, to confuse the nations, and to work His wonders in the earth. But the people who are now living in Modern Israel are not Israel. They consist of people from many tribes certainly, but they do not include the official tribes of Israel who went missing centuries ago. Therefore when people declare such and such a prophecy is about to happen or has happened concerning Israel. The know not of what the speak. Instead, we need to look at prophecies that concern Judah, Edom, and Jerusalem if we want to see what will take place in Modern Israel. And even then, we must be careful to distinguish the prophecies for Spiritual Judah and New Jerusalem as separate from the prophecies for earthly Judah and early Jerusalem.
Although some of you are likely putting the pieces together at this point. My next post will be where I will cause the great offense I have been warning you about. We shall talk about figs and Sarah and Hagar and the controversy of Zion and how what is taking place these days is bringing us to the brink of the climax of history - in the exact opposite way than most Christians are expecting. We shall see where God has truly placed His Name and what He truly considers to be his Temple and His City. What has become of the spiritual kingdom and the mandates?
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Post by Natalie on Dec 26, 2017 18:40:06 GMT -6
I'm following you so far, but I had a question on this statement "And so it is only fitting that when Judah and Edom came back to the land, that they too would use deception and call themselves Israel - something they could not legally do without the official tribe of Ephraim." Maybe I missed it earlier, but why is the tribe of Ephraim important here? Is it tied back to the blessing he received?
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Dec 26, 2017 19:44:45 GMT -6
I want SK to reply, but let me see from my notes. Ephraim holds the birthright... Without Both Kingdoms, there is something missing. Modern day then, they only have Kingship via Judah, no Sonship or Priesthood.. Is this correct?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2017 19:47:03 GMT -6
Natalie, Yes. When Jacob split the mandate, he blessed the sons of Joseph (Ephraim and Manasseh) with the birthright which gives them the right to the name Israel. Judah was blessed with the right to hold the scepter, in other words, rule the kingdom. Only the tribes of the sons of Joseph could use the name, Israel. 1Ch 5:1 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel (for he was the firstborn, but because he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given to the sons of Joseph the son of Israel; so that he is not enrolled in the genealogy according to the birthright. 1Ch 5:2 Though Judah prevailed over his brothers, and from him came the leader, yet the birthright belonged to Joseph), Gen 48:16 … Bless the lads; And may my name live on in them, And the names of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; And may they grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth." Ephraim received the primary blessing. Though its is unclear what the difference is from these passages between the blessing of Manasseh and Ephraim. What is clear is that those tribes carried the right to the name Israel. So in 1948, when Judah/Edom chose the name Israel, since they did not have the representation from the official tribe of either Ephraim or Manasseh, they could not legally call themselves Israel. This may seem like a minor point. But the significance comes in when we interpret prophecy in scripture that is targeting Israel. We cannot attach that to modern day Israel. Instead, we need to recognize that it applies to either physical Israel (the lost 10 tribes) or spiritual Israel. Does that make things more clear? The Mandates Separate post contains more detail in this area.
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Post by chohouston on Dec 26, 2017 19:51:03 GMT -6
@natalie, Yes. When Jacob split the mandate, he blessed the sons of Joseph (Ephraim and Manasseh) with the birthright which gives them the right to the name Israel. Judah was blessed with the right to hold the scepter, in other words, rule the kingdom. Only the tribes of the sons of Joseph could use the name, Israel. 1Ch 5:1 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel (for he was the firstborn, but because he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given to the sons of Joseph the son of Israel; so that he is not enrolled in the genealogy according to the birthright. 1Ch 5:2 Though Judah prevailed over his brothers, and from him came the leader, yet the birthright belonged to Joseph), Gen 48:16 … Bless the lads; And may my name live on in them, And the names of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; And may they grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth." Ephraim received the primary blessing. Though its is unclear what the difference is from these passages between the blessing of Manasseh and Ephraim. What is clear is that those tribes carried the right to the name Israel. So in 1948, when Judah/Edom chose the name Israel, since they did not have the representation from the official tribe of either Ephraim or Manasseh, they could not legally call themselves Israel. This may seem like a minor point. But the significance comes in when we interpret prophecy in scripture that is targeting Israel. We cannot attach that to modern day Israel. Instead, we need to recognize that it applies to either physical Israel (the lost 10 tribes) or spiritual Israel. Does that make things more clear? The Mandates Separate post contains more detail in this area. Awesome thread. Just spent the last three hours catching up on this! Thank you SK. Still need all this to sink in but looking forward to the next. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2017 19:55:24 GMT -6
barbiosheepgirl, Yes. You are correct. But for modern Israel, it is even worse. They cannot even claim the kingdom anymore because the kingdom was removed from them when they rejected the rightful king when he came. That would be Jesus. But I have not covered this fully yet. To be a true member of the tribe of spiritual Judah, one must recognize the king. I'm hoping my next post will get to these matters. So much to write! So little time!
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