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Post by kjs on Apr 12, 2018 15:18:13 GMT -6
I have seen it posted on this website – both as stand-alone topics, as well as individual posts. I have also heard many TV Preachers say something similar in context, as well as well-meaning Christians bring it up in general conversations.
It leaves me flabbergasted! Are modern day Believer’s that illiterate that they fail to grasp the entire concept – or are they that doubtful the words apply to them?
I speak of course of God’s Wrath and the Christian (or Believer, or member of the Body of Christ).
I hear (almost daily it seems) that God’s Wrath is going to come down upon the church for X,Y, or Z….
Christians are going to have to face part of God’s Wrath……
Christians will be held accountable for specific actions/deeds that they have committed.
Christians are in danger of Hell-Fire because of M,P,or Q…………….
TO ALL of the above – I yell at the top of my LUNGS --- NO! NO! NO!
Try on some these scripture verses …….
Psalm 103:12 …as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.
Romans 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,…..
1 Thessalonians 5: 9 For God has not destined us to receive wrath but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus, the Messiah,10 who died for us in order that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.
I could literally go on listing these scriptural nuggets…. But until an Believer REALLY understands and applies it to themselves … I am afraid I am simply “blowing hot air”…….
Folks – it was ALL HANDLED by Jesus Christ – many, many years ago … As He said ….
IT IS FINISHED!!!!
The GIFT He bestows on every single one of us …. Is this Perfection, This Not Guilty, forever and ever…..
If you believe this GIFT was bestowed upon you ……..
Then how in the world do you think (or say) that God is going to Judge / be Wrathful with you His Child?
Study the Word of God – allow the Holy Spirit to open your eyes…….
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Post by klb on Apr 12, 2018 15:20:10 GMT -6
AMEN!
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Post by mike on Apr 13, 2018 6:02:57 GMT -6
technically we are all sinful Christians. None of us walks perfectly in the Spirit every day. None us have a day where some aspect of flesh doesnt get in the way. We should not judge our brothers/sisters rather love them to truth.
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Post by kjs on Apr 13, 2018 7:57:29 GMT -6
technically we are all sinful Christians. None of us walks perfectly in the Spirit every day. None us have a day where some aspect of flesh doesnt get in the way. We should not judge our brothers/sisters rather love them to truth. Yes, Mike our FLESH still pulls us into SIN -- and it will be like that until death or the rapture.... BUT as Apostle Paul tells us in Romans 7 -- it is NOT us that continues in the sin ... it is the flesh And then Paul proclaims loudly -- there is No condemnation for those in Christ!
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Post by klb on Apr 13, 2018 9:24:10 GMT -6
The cross worked.
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Post by mike on Apr 13, 2018 11:20:46 GMT -6
klb the cross worked for most but for some they attempt to add works to it
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Post by klb on Apr 13, 2018 14:11:15 GMT -6
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on May 2, 2018 13:45:15 GMT -6
kjs I will say, AMEN to your statement and then add my $0.02... This Wrath that we have all been studying here at Unsealed and elsewhere...this is where I personally have modified my thought process. Forgive me if I disagree, but for me I just can not see a Tribulation fitting neatly within a 7 year period. It doesnt matter if I think that way, or if you disagree with me. I do agree that a Faithful Christ-follower (one fully surrendered into Faith in God and walking in that by his/her heart because of the belief in the Work of Jesus on the Cross) is not destined, based on Scripture, to suffer the big W... and only HE knows the secrets of our hearts, HE knows who is an Abraham or an Abram.. walking by faith not by sight (works).. We will truly only know by hindsight the things of prophecy, but no longer can I not say we are not destined for small w wrath.. wrath or tribulation, which one is it? each one of us suffers tribulation as a believer. suffers temptation, suffers the flesh, suffers persecution, suffers insult, suffers sickness, suffers addiction, suffers shame from our past we can not even forgive our own self... the Big W laid out for us in Revelation has many many parts that really do not apply to the Christ-follower. And we shall com boldly with confidence and assurance and hope of that! For the non-follower, one thing as an example is one taking the mark or belief in an antichristic religious man-leader. a human that will be their king and rule over all, being all charismatic and elevated as a god to many. There are many many people still looking for this "messiah." there protector, their ultimate leader, their king their human ruler! I believe God will give them what they are looking for and that therein is the Wrath that a Christ-follower will not be deceived by. For He knows His sheep and His sheep hear His voice! 14I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.We are no longer a slave to sin, but that does not mean we do not sin. Thank God He gave us an Intercessor for our fleshly, lawless desires. Our Shepherd, our Counselor our Redeemer! Christ Jesus!
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Post by Gary on May 2, 2018 15:21:40 GMT -6
This is kind of an oversimplification on my part, but I've noticed that the enemy distorts the truth from both ends. That's why I've written quite a bit about how we have to identify both types of wolves in sheeps' clothing (Pharisees AND Sadducees). The Gospel is salvation by grace through faith. Legalists add works to grace. That's a false gospel. It's not grace. Faith leads to salvation. Works lead to rewards. Bad deeds apart from faith lead to judgment. Legalists deny grace.Liberal Christians often preach grace, but deny the necessity of faith. They twist truth. Take for example Pope Francis' recent false assurance to a grieving boy that his atheist father will be in Heaven. According to Romans 10, he can't make such a false assurance. Only those who trust in the LORD Jesus Christ will be saved. There are many preachers and "theologians" who are presently teaching that it's all well and good to believe in Jesus and that God is loving and kind, but they simultaneously teach/strongly insinuate that "good people" who belong to other religions will also be saved. Many liberal "Christians" deny truth.The gospel is what it is and we have to take it just as it was handed down to us.
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Post by Natalie on May 2, 2018 17:31:44 GMT -6
We will truly only know by hindsight the things of prophecy, but no longer can I not say we are not destined for small w wrath.. wrath or tribulation, which one is it? each one of us suffers tribulation as a believer. suffers temptation, suffers the flesh, suffers persecution, suffers insult, suffers sickness, suffers addiction, suffers shame from our past we can not even forgive our own self... The Bible says that we will have troubles (trials, tribulations) in this life. That is what purifies us and makes us more like Him. But we will not have to deal with any of God's wrath...little w or big. One of my favorite songs says, "And He stood before the wrath of God shielding sinners with His blood." He drank the cup of God's wrath so that we will not have to. Wrath and tribulations are different...although I think people confuse them because the Great Tribulation is God's wrath. But the Great Tribulation is not every day life tribulations. I can look up verses later, but I gotta run the kids to youth group now.
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Job19
Layman
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
Posts: 62
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Post by Job19 on May 3, 2018 2:48:30 GMT -6
If we are truly born again then we are not saved from the presence of sin in these mortal bodies. We are saved from the POWER OF SIN.
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Post by venge on May 3, 2018 15:44:23 GMT -6
Such wonderful comments here! Like Barbie, I have disagreements with some but that’s ok. Though I believe we will go thru Tribulation, like you, I know we are not going to go thru wrath. I am always reminded of myself Jesus paid it all, all to him I owe, sin had left a crimson stain, he washes it white as snow. My friend. My teacher. My God in flesh. My prince of peace. My everlasting mercy. My forgiver. And my savior. As worthless as I may feel, hopeless that I cannot lose every sin, I cannot meet perfection...I try. I lose some and feel discouraged but I keep trying. Trying more and running the race we all run. He’s at the finish line but sometimes I get winded. I know I’ll make it but will I want to make sure when I do I want to look back to fritz and say I told you so, after the Tribulation lol
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Post by fitz on May 3, 2018 17:40:08 GMT -6
Such wonderful comments here! Like Barbie, I have disagreements with some but that’s ok. Though I believe we will go thru Tribulation, like you, I know we are not going to go thru wrath. I am always reminded of myself Jesus paid it all, all to him I owe, sin had left a crimson stain, he washes it white as snow. My friend. My teacher. My God in flesh. My prince of peace. My everlasting mercy. My forgiver. And my savior. As worthless as I may feel, hopeless that I cannot lose every sin, I cannot meet perfection...I try. I lose some and feel discouraged but I keep trying. Trying more and running the race we all run. He’s at the finish line but sometimes I get winded. I know I’ll make it but will I want to make sure when I do I want to look back to fritz and say I told you so, after the Tribulation lol Ha! It's YOU my friend that I'll be finding on that great day when the bride is whisked away to safety. You'll be the guy with the red face. LOL. But it will be all good. We will have a good laugh.
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dent
Layman
Posts: 61
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Post by dent on May 27, 2018 3:23:26 GMT -6
Here's tuppence worth from Scripture. guess that's 2 cents to you:-
Malachi (whole book paraphrased):-
1v2 “Yet I've loved Jacob; 3 but hated Esau (twin boys). 6 A son honours father. If I AM Father, where's My honour? My respect?’ O priests who despise My name. 8 Presenting the blind, lame and sick for sacrifice, is it not evil? says the LORD of hosts. 2v1 "This commandment's for priests. 2 If you don't listen, I'll curse you for not taking to heart. 3 I AM going to rebuke your offspring, and spread shit on their faces, and you'll be taken away. 4 You'll know I've commanded that My covenant may continue with Levi. 5 Which was life, peace, and reverence. 6 Truth was in his mouth. Lies were not; he walked with Me in peace and uprightness, and turned many back from iniquity. 7 Lips of a priest should provide knowledgeable instruction; for he's the messenger of the LORD. 8 “You Levites have turned aside and caused many to stumble by false instruction; corrupting the covenant of Levi. 9 So I've made you despised and abased, as you're not keeping My ways but show partiality. 10 Don't we all have one father? Has not one God created us? Why do you deal treacherously against your brother so as to profane the covenant? 11 Judah (Jacob) have dealt treacherously, and an abomination has been committed in Israel (Esau, Christianity). Judah's profaned the sanctuary of the LORD which He loves and has married the daughter of a foreign god. 12 The man who does this, may the LORD cut off from the tents of Jacob. 13 "God no longer regards your offering or accepts favourably. 14 Because the LORD has been the wife of your youth, against whom you've dealt treacherously. 15 None of you has a remnant of the Spirit; and whilst seeking converts? Take heed to your spirit, and let no one deal treacherously against (God) the wife of your youth. 16 “For I hate divorce and him who covers his garment with wrong,” says the LORD of hosts. “So take heed to your spirit, and don't deal treacherously.”
17 You've wearied the LORD saying, “Who does evil is good in the sight of the LORD” or, “Where's the God of justice? 3v1 I AM going to send Elijah to clear the way, whom you seek, he'll suddenly come to His temple. 2 But who can endure the day of His coming and stand when He appears? He's like a refiner’s fire. 3 He'll sit as purifier of the sons of Levi, so they may present to the LORD offerings in righteousness. 4 Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the LORD as in days of old.
5 Judgment will be swift against the sorcerers, adulterers, those who swear falsely, those who oppress the weak, and those who not fear Me. 6 For I, the LORD, do not change. 7 From the days of your fathers you've disobeyed My statutes. Return to Me, and I'll return to you,” says the LORD of hosts. 8 “Will a man rob God? 9 You're cursed for robbing Me. 10 Test Me: if I'll not pour out blessing. 11 Then I'll rebuke for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of your ground. 12 All the nations will call you blessed; a delightful land,” says the LORD of hosts. 13 “Your words have been arrogant, 14 ‘It's vain to serve God; and what profit? 15 So we call the arrogant blessed'. Not only are the doers of wickedness built up but they also test God and escape.” 16 God fearers spoke to one another, and the LORD heard. 17 “They'll be Mine, on the day that I prepare. I'll spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him. 18 So you'll again distinguish between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not." 4v1 Day's coming when Arrogant evildoers will be Judged and left desolate. 2 Those who fear God's name will be happy, 3 treading down the [above] wicked on Judgement Day. 4 Remember the law of Moses, which God commanded for all Israel. 5 God is sending Elijah 6 to restore the hearts of the fathers to children, so God will not have to curse the land.
The message is to the Clergy! Elijah will deliver this message on the Great and Terrible Day (very soon).
Dent
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Post by socalexile on Jul 19, 2018 17:36:10 GMT -6
technically we are all sinful Christians. None of us walks perfectly in the Spirit every day. None us have a day where some aspect of flesh doesnt get in the way. We should not judge our brothers/sisters rather love them to truth. Romans 6:11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Jesus Christ our Lord. "Reckon" there is the same Greek word translated as "credit" or "impute" in Romans 4:5. The Law is taken away and nailed to the Cross (Eph. 2:15; Col 2:14), and where there is no Law, there is no transgression (Romans 4:15). 1 Cor 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. 10:24 Let no one seek his own, but each one the other's well being.
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