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Post by bobthewebguy on Jul 1, 2019 17:40:57 GMT -6
I'll meet you all on the Macron or other threads.
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Post by Natalie on Jul 1, 2019 19:43:38 GMT -6
cwood85 , I am guessing you would agree that learning from a woman on this forum is totally different than sitting under a woman pastor. I hope bobthewebguy understands that because otherwise that comment sounds a bit...I don't know what to call it...rude? disrespectful? demeaning? We are brothers and sisters here learning from one another. No one is in a teaching authority position.
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Post by cwood85 on Jul 1, 2019 21:08:26 GMT -6
cwood85 , I am guessing you would agree that learning from a woman on this forum is totally different than sitting under a woman pastor. I hope bobthewebguy understands that because otherwise that comment sounds a bit...I don't know what to call it...rude? disrespectful? demeaning? We are brothers and sisters here learning from one another. No one is in a teaching authority position. I was married by my great aunt who was a pastor for almost 30 years. Probably makes my marriage null and void because it was done by a female... My aunt and her husband were the pastors. They were what you would call, now it’s a funny word for those who think men should entirely dominate over a woman and woman are subordinate to men. They were EQUALS with the pastoring of their church. They were equals in their marriage, which was one of the nicest and sweetest ones I have ever observed. They loved one another very much and it was apparent to all who knew them. But I am sure their marriage would have been even better if her husband always treated her as his lesser rather than his equal, best friend and spouse. Bob is probably right about that. And nothing shows a higher higher level of intelligence like being narrow minded, a know it all and too lazy to do your homework! That’s what gets people high test scores, no studying or research. I honestly think when I am in the presence of a man for too long I can literally feel my IQ dropping out of the back of my head due to their superior teaching and learning skills. Ok, I am done now lol as I could just have way too much fun with Bob! Goodbye Bob!
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Post by boraddict on Jul 1, 2019 21:08:43 GMT -6
Finding the errors in the KJV.
I am not going to begin with the scribal inserts since thy are debatable. So let's jump right in at Revelation Chapter 7 and name the 12 tribes of Israel: Manasses, really? What happened to Dan? How did this mistake get into the perfect KJV.
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Post by yardstick on Jul 1, 2019 23:35:23 GMT -6
Finding the errors in the KJV. I am not going to begin with the scribal inserts since thy are debatable. So let's jump right in at Revelation Chapter 7 and name the 12 tribes of Israel: Manasses, really? What happened to Dan? How did this mistake get into the perfect KJV. It may not be a mistake.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2019 23:38:56 GMT -6
Finding the errors in the KJV. I am not going to begin with the scribal inserts since thy are debatable. So let's jump right in at Revelation Chapter 7 and name the 12 tribes of Israel: Manasses, really? What happened to Dan? How did this mistake get into the perfect KJV.
Hi bora,
are you quite sure this is an error or mistake? All my german bibles (Luther, Elberfelder, ...) are leaving out Dan here, too....
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Post by kjs on Jul 2, 2019 13:42:25 GMT -6
Mike, I don't have a problem with probably 75% of the other translations. I have a problem with ERROR! If there is one error in my 1611 KJV I will through the bible in the trash. So far in 40 years, I still have it. I can show you and have shown you errors in the other versions. They are wrong!. My God is not the author of wrong!. I have made amazing discoveries in my KJV, that I would have never found in other versions. Want to see one? Bob The 1611 KJV has HUNDREDS of errors ... HERE are A FEW!!!!!
the King James Bible uses the word "candle" (16 times) and "brass" (126 times) when neither were actually in existence in Bible times. "Candle" should be translated "lamp or light" and "brass" should be translated as "bronze."
I think most of us know as well that the Holy Spirit is not an "it" as the KJV says in (Rom 8:16,26)(1 Pet 1:11)(Jn 1:32). I like these errors -- even show a a few direct quoted from the KJV 1611
Romans 8:16 The spirit it selfe beareth witnes with our spirit, that we are the children of God. Romans 8:26 26 Likewise the spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what wee should pray for as wee ought: but the spirit it selfe maketh intercession for vs with groanings, which cannot bee vttered.
Nearly every scholar also agrees that the word used for "Easter" in (Acts 12:4) should be translated as "Passover."
*** Note: Keep in mind, if the 1611 KJV was infallible, and the KJV we have today is infallible, how could there be differences?
Here is an example of ADDING / removing TEXT (1611 KJV) (Ex 14:10) And when Pharaoh drew nigh, the children of Israel lift vp their eyes, and behold, the Egyptians marched after them, and they were sore afraid: and the children of Israel lift vp their eyes, and beholde, the Egyptians marched after them, and they were sore afraid: and the children of Israel cried out vnto the Lord.
(Corrected KJV today) (Ex 14:10) And when Pharaoh drew nigh, the children of Israel lift up their eyes, and behold, the Egyptians marched after them; and they are sore afraid: and the children of Israel cried out unto the Lord.
Which verse is the correct, infallible word from God? Let's look at a few more.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Example of misspelled words
(1611 KJV) (Ps 69:32) ... And your heart shall live that seeke good. {which is it -- seek GOD or Seek good }
(Corrected KJV today) (Ps 69:32) ... And your heart shall live that seek God.
OOPS -- MISSING the NOT (and misspelled words) (1611 KJV) (Ezek 24:7) ... she set it vpon the toppe of a rocke, she powred it vpon the ground to couer it with dust:
(Corrected KJV today) (Ezek 24:7) ... she set it upon the top of a rock; she poured it NOT upon the ground, to cover it with dust;
---------------------- Misspelled words and adding / removing text
(1611 KJV) (2 Tim 4:13) The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou commest, bring with thee, but especially the parchments.
(Corrected KJV today) (2 Tim 4:13) The cloke that I left as Troas with Carpus, when thou commest, bring with thee, AND THE BOOKS, but especially the parchments. (caps emphasis mine)
Changing word Values and typos .....
(1611 KJV) (Mk 5:6) But when hee saw Iesus afarre off, he CAME and worshipped Him.
(Corrected KJV today) (Mk 5:6) But when he saw Jesus afar off, he RAN and worshipped Him.
The KJV we have today is the result of numerous corrections made over time as these errors have been discovered.
So 1611 KJV is NOT Perfect.....
Read some of the sources given and actually re-think........ there is NO PERFECT Translation.... and definitely NONE into the English language.....
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Post by boraddict on Jul 2, 2019 19:46:59 GMT -6
Finding the errors in the KJV. I am not going to begin with the scribal inserts since thy are debatable. So let's jump right in at Revelation Chapter 7 and name the 12 tribes of Israel: Manasses, really? What happened to Dan? How did this mistake get into the perfect KJV.
Hi bora,
are you quite sure this is an error or mistake? All my german bibles (Luther, Elberfelder, ...) are leaving out Dan here, too....
Yes it is a mistake because Manasses is not one of the twelve tribes of Israel and Dan is. Therefore, the mistake exists no matter what; even if all the other versions have the same mistake. That is, the mistake exists that Manasses is one of the twelve tribes of Israel and Dan is not. I however can explain this phenomenon; nevertheless, for literal purposes, the mistake exists showing that as literal works all bibles have this mistake. However, on the metaphorical level it shows a congruity of the tribes into one that is Ephraim; since Ephraim is the lone duck. That is, since Manasses replaced Dan then what tribe of the 13 is remaining but Ephraim (Joseph became Ephraim and Manasses adding one tribe to the twelve). Who is Ephraim but the northern tribe that was scattered having within it's area of responsibility 9 of the other tribes of Israel. Thus two tribes remain that are Judah and it's counterpart Benjamin (Joseph's brother). Thus, there are basically two dominant tribes, Ephraim and Judah. Since Judah is predominantly in the homeland (Israel today) then where is Ephraim but scattered upon the earth and these are the Christians. So in short who do the tribes of Israel represent in Revelation Chapter 7 but the Christians and not literally the tribes in Israel since Dan is missing. However, if you take the accounting of the tribes in Revelation Chapter 7 literally then there is a mistake therein with the absence of Dan replaced by Manasses. Big mistake! Unless, as I have said, the chapter is read metaphorically. I assume that Bob is reading the chapter literally therefore it is a mistake to not include Dan. Thus, an error exists in the literal text of the Bible. I should have included the word "literal" in my previous post.
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Post by Natalie on Jul 2, 2019 20:08:29 GMT -6
I take the listing literally and that there is no mistake. If you take the meanings of their names, in the order that they are given, it gives a message. It's called a remez -- a hidden message or deeper meaning below the surface or behind the words.
Meanings in order: Praise YHWH He has looked on my affliction Good fortune comes happy and blessed am I my wrestling has made me forget my sorrow YHWH hears me has joined me rewarded me exalted me adding to me the Son of His right hand
I've also heard a reason why Dan isn't included, but I would have to re-look that up.
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Post by Natalie on Jul 2, 2019 20:31:31 GMT -6
ETA: the ESV didn't get it quite right either but does make a note at the bottom which corrects the problem. (Is 61:1 is quoted in Luke 4:18-19)
From the same site, it's also missing words from Deut 32:43
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Post by Natalie on Jul 2, 2019 21:16:40 GMT -6
One thing that has been reinforced upon coming to Unsealed is to hang on to some things loosely. There are things that we must be firm on (Gary even has many of those in the rules). But, we don't have it all right all the time. Humans are not perfect and make mistakes--even in the best copies and translations. And with those who have the best intentions. BUT God HAS preserved His word, and He has made sure that it has spread throughout the world. And He can use any translation to reach someone. He can use any human to reach someone-- even when we fumble with the words and actions. But we must be humble and kind to one another. We don't want to hang on to something so tightly that we jeopardize our relationships with other believers.
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Post by yardstick on Jul 3, 2019 1:22:03 GMT -6
I take the listing literally and that there is no mistake. If you take the meanings of their names, in the order that they are given, it gives a message. It's called a remez -- a hidden message or deeper meaning below the surface or behind the words.
Meanings in order: Praise YHWH He has looked on my affliction Good fortune comes happy and blessed am I my wrestling has made me forget my sorrow YHWH hears me has joined me rewarded me exalted me adding to me the Son of His right hand
I've also heard a reason why Dan isn't included, but I would have to re-look that up.
You beat me to the cross-post! Also a good study (imho) would be to see if there is anything in scripture that might explain why these four 'tribes' are swapped up in Revelation 7. I bet that there is, albeit hidden in prophecy. Note Ezekiel 44 (see v10-16), where the inheritance (given in Deuteronomy) of the Levites is restricted to the descendants of Zadok. This might partly explain why the tribe of Levi is once again in the list of Tribes, in Revelation 7, despite not receiving a portion of inheritance in the Land in Deuteronomy. Also check out Malachi 2:1-9. One thing that I feel I should emphasize, is that the 12 Tribes listed in Revelation 7 are the Sealed Tribes. They are the 144,000 witnesses during the Tribulation. It does not say anything about the other tribes or what happens to them...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 3:01:54 GMT -6
yardstick, Natalie, boraddictThx for your enlightening explanations and references to former threads. My take on so called "errors" or "mistakes" in bibles is that these sometimes can be intentional and hints to deeper truths. I never had serious doubts about, as Natalie put it: God is surely watching over His Word.
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Post by kjs on Jul 3, 2019 6:42:14 GMT -6
yardstick , Natalie , boraddict Thx for your enlightening explanations and references to former threads. My take on so called "errors" or "mistakes" in bibles is that these sometimes can be intentional and hints to deeper truths. I never had serious doubts about, as Natalie put it: God is surely watching over His Word. Here is the deal (again in my opinion) ....
The Inerrancy of the Bible (or the Bible is inerrant) -- means different things to different people ......
But the one thing -- that it appears many people over look -- is that even if one believes the original "Bible Text" is inerrant (and I do).
IS NOT THE SAME AS CLAIMING the surviving copies (and their translations) are inerrant.....
Face it -- there is NOT one surviving original "text" existing today --- all we have are copies of copies (and most of those copies are simply fragments)
Could God have had produced an 100% error free manuscript? Yes, He could have -- BUT HE DID NOT.....
He (God) only preserved the primary concepts to flow down through History....
How do we know this? Because of all the mistakes found within the existing copies?
Mistakes like typos, missing words, missing punctuation, the existing copies of the Biblical Text is filled with these "mistakes"
Therefore -- for whatever reason -- God has chosen to NOT preserve an 100% error free document...........
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Post by mike on Jul 3, 2019 8:20:36 GMT -6
kjs , I often think back to before Moses, what was written and recorded? Not much i'm guessing. How did those in antiquity know God and how they should be/act in relation to Him back then. How did they know what God wanted, how we should treat one another, etc. (I have ideas on this but these are rhetorical) Unfortunately we find that not many men were deemed righteous and basically everyone on the planet became wicked. Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.We don't necessarily require the text at all to be in right standing with God do we? Would it have helped or made difference to those pre-flood? Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.This basically covers it for me. We love the Word. It helps us grow and learn deep things of God, but the core issue is and always has been the heart is wicked
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