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Post by cwood85 on Aug 16, 2019 22:31:05 GMT -6
neural , But He said to me, “ My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly in my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest on me. “16For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world that He might judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18The one believing in Him is not judged, but the one not believing already has been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.19And this is the judgement, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light; for their deeds were evil. 20For everyone practicing evil hates the Light and does not come to the Light, so that his works may not be exposed; 21but the one practicing the truth comes to the Light, that his works may be manifest as having been done in God.” 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.• And a few verses from Laminations, a book that doesn’t seem to get referenced as much as it should. It’s a beautiful book of bible. 22The steadfast love of the LORD never ceases; his mercies never come to an end;23they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness. 31For the Lord will not reject forever, 32For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the sons of men. The lords grace does not have limitations and is not limited by our sin, it is strengthened and more abundant by it. Where sin abounds grace abounds. There is no sin his grace has not covered or forgiven.
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neural
Truth Seeker
Posts: 113
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Post by neural on Aug 17, 2019 0:48:26 GMT -6
cwood85: Yes, those scriptures are encouraging. The problem at hand though is that many many many people seem to believe that those only apply up until the point of ones belief in Christ, and that *after* that, if you sin willfully, or return to a life of sin, etc., it is all invalidated. Something I have also accepted, is that I will never know for sure until my appointed time to leave earth. I have to accept that I may be condemned, and do my best to make peace with that, otherwise I will live my life in terror of what may be coming. I know this: If by some strange chance these people are right about such things, I am well past the point of no return.
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Post by Natalie on Aug 17, 2019 7:29:55 GMT -6
Many many people can believe something and be totally wrong.
Christ's death and Resurrection paid for everything. This is the truth to cling to. "It is finished" Paid in full.
1 John 5:11-13 And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.
Keep returning to Him when you sin, don't go after a life of sin, and then you can be confident in your faith and eternal destination. He is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse is of all unrighteousness. (also in 1 John)
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Post by venge on Aug 17, 2019 8:05:46 GMT -6
Christ does say to hold fast those things you have and repent or he’ll remove your name from the book of life. The implication appears to mean you were in it, hence, you were saved. But sometime afterwards you fell and were removed. Otherwise, why would you be removed if always unsaved? You wouldn’t be written in it. I have personally gone back and forth on this. This is something I struggle with, and is one of those points that makes me lean towards saying that "rightly dividing" is important. Both the words of Jesus Himself, as well as some of what James said seem to contradict Paul. Grace is given unto those who believe, and as Paul said, we are no longer under the law of sin and death. I know I have seen people twist that to conform to their "you can lose your salvation" viewpoint, but Paul also states that we would not know what sin was if it was not for the law. The "law", the commandments given by God, is one and the same, in my opinion. The commandments are an extrapolation of the entirety of what sin is. God basically said "everyone is under the law of sin and death, and here's the details as to why it wasn't just Adam and Eve who are condemned to the punishment of death." Additionally, when one believes and is accepts the gift of Grace from God, our position of no longer being under the law frees us not from discipline by God, or by human law, but simply frees us from the concern of being eternally condemned for any action we may take. I think things either go one of two ways here. Either we are saved once and for all by Grace, or there are not going to be but a few thousand people who are raised/raptured when the time comes. "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" is a flat statement. It does not say "For all have sinned (up until they accepted Christ) and fall short of the glory of God". Again, the use of the word "all" in many scriptures indicates past/present/future. If Grace is not all encompassing of a persons life/timeline, and if the mark of the beast is some physical thing... I don't know. It makes me question if we should just remove all of Paul's books from the Bible. I believe in God, 100%. I struggle at times with my opinion of His character/personality, but even in those moments where I doubt, I *choose* to believe. "It sure doesn't seem like You are there at all, but I choose to believe You are" is something I've said many times. Very very often, likely through God, I have things brought to mind that I cling to as evidence of His existence. However, I know more than anything that my body and mind are prone to sin. Sin is attached to our bodies in such a manner that Paul referred to it as if it were some thing or disease living inside us. We indulge in it, and if you look at the commandments and are honest with yourself, the thing that God lists as sin is comprised in large majority of things that humans enjoy doing, or willfully do at the very least. We gossip, we worship idols, we engage in immorality of various sorts, we ignore the sabbath, and so on. The ones that stand and say "Well you might do that, but *I* don't!" probably need to look in the mirror and be real with themselves. We *all* sin, and we *all* do so willingly with the desire of the (temporary) satisfaction that goes with it. Be it looking at someone in a way you shouldn't, lusting after a nice car, or talking about what Mable did at the sewing club last Monday, we all engage in sin willfully. So, again, if we are to disregard Paul, and listen to Jesus directly and take His words as such, that path indeed is narrow, and that "153" fish that were caught in the book of John may simply mean that out of all of mankind, only 153 people will meet the measure. That is a very gloomy view of things. It is a gloomy view indeed to look at this life and believe that there is some means at all in which one might lose their salvation, and I would pose that if having some form of physical mark on your body invalidates Grace, than there is a lot more that can also invalidate Grace, and pretty much all of us are bound for the Great White Throne. I accept my fate, whatever God judges that to be. If His Grace does not cover my willful sins, then I deserve condemnation. I fully accept that I do not measure up to His standards. I expect that from God, as He is just and righteous. Will eternity in hell suck? Absolutely, but I deserve that regardless of the extent of Grace. As such, the question of what the mark of the beast really is, has a lot, in my opinion, riding on it. Because in my opinion, it defines the limits, if any, of the Grace that has been given to sinners. Posting a few things you said in quotes: And this is partly true. We are under no condemnation to those that belong to God. And we are not under the law which condemns by the hand of 2 witnesses that breaking one point of any part of it meant death. We are under grace. And Paul says that doesnt mean we can than sin and live, no..but to have a change in our hearts and minds by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost. We nail the carnal to the cross and live by the spirit. I look at it like this my friend: A Christian that willfully lusts in his heart after other women for sexual gratification may believe, but if he does so willing and doesnt want to change from it..is he living in the carnal or the spirit? For we must break away from the old and strive for the new. That doesnt mean we stop sinning. There are temptations and mistakes made, but we dont gratify it, we dont live in it without feeling any shame, we dont search it out as a volunteer or talk about it as perhaps our old self did. No different is it that a heterosexual lusts after many women and is married then a homosexual that lusts after the same sex. Each lusts, each is carnal minded, each is sin, each is commanded by God to be wrong. And living in that sin is not Holy and apart from God. "Be ye Holy for I am Holy". So our position frees us from damnation because we are not under the law, but the law is Holy and good and was our "teacher" that we may know sin until we believed in the son of God who lead us to God himself. I don't know. I know this, the word says that there are multitudes like the sand of the sea that go to heaven. From every tribe, peopels ,nation and tongue. Every corner of the globe will have believers in heaven. But according to every man from Christ to now? Id think small in the totality of things. Look at Matthew 7:13-14 It is not all those that seek life attain life, but few actually find life. And in compasion, many find destruction. Was it not said you will know a person by his fruit? Paul's testimony and account is a beautiful piece that is inspired by God. It deserves to be there and is educational in understanding things pertaining to the gospel and things God said in the O.T. and what their meaning for Christians was which the Jews did not understand. Romans is a perfect example of that brilliance. I dont believe that the story intends to mean only 153 people will be saved. This story is a shootoff of the original story when Christ said I will make you fishers of men. It demonstrates the awesome nature of trust in God and the power of the word. The apostles grew in despair without Jesus and having fished all night caught nothing. If you were to go evangelize and no one was saved or turned to listen to you...it becomes discouraging. People who witness to others may speak to hundreds, even a thousand before 1 person is ready to listen with their heart and be converted. But we are told one sows, another reaps. One plants the seed, another waters it. No one man does it all. God allows the man to hear, we preach the gospel, others follow afterwards and perhaps do the same...and the seed grows and convicts the person. God works within them. With this message, notice Christ tells them to cast their net (the word of God) on the right side (very important clue) of the boat. Also notice that Peter put on a coat to cover his nakedness, his shame and cast himself into the sea. Why did Peter feel ashamed to cast himself into the sea? Peter was not shamed of his nakedness when he spoke to Christ UNTIL a disciple that Christ loved told Peter it was Jesus, then he become ashamed. Why wasnt he ashamed previously? What was his heart? The entire story is beautiful. It is not just a literal story but has far vast spiritual applications for us today. Did Peter become complacent without Christ and go back to a worldly view? Did he become lazy in catching men for Christ and gave up easy? When Christ came, he told them to keep casting your net, dont get discouraged. In the verses that follow, Christ tells Peter 3 times to take care of his sheep. He cannot do that if he is naked and lazy and is not prepared to go the distance. Christ tells him these things because he was naked and cast himself into the sea. And others may have a different point of view on that subject, but in regards to how many are raptured? Only God knows. Many will leave the faith. Many will have the title of Christian and still live in and love the world. Many will give into temptation and possibly, the mark of the beast. Many will stand up for Christ and die a martyr. And then there are those who are still alive and remain to the end...which in this phrase seems like a small amount. I would not worry about the number, I would worry about you and others. You can be ok with just you doing things right, or you can help pull souls from the fire too. Not to gain riches in heaven, but to save your neighbor - because you have love in your heart.
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Post by cwood85 on Aug 17, 2019 9:26:56 GMT -6
cwood85: Yes, those scriptures are encouraging. The problem at hand though is that many many many people seem to believe that those only apply up until the point of ones belief in Christ, and that *after* that, if you sin willfully, or return to a life of sin, etc., it is all invalidated. Something I have also accepted, is that I will never know for sure until my appointed time to leave earth. I have to accept that I may be condemned, and do my best to make peace with that, otherwise I will live my life in terror of what may be coming. I know this: If by some strange chance these people are right about such things, I am well past the point of no return. Let me ask a question in light of a few parables Jesus gave us. In the parable of the 99 sheep, did the lost sheep go looking for the shepherd and the shepherd stood around waiting for the lost sheep to find him with the other 99 sheep or did the SHEPARD go and LOOK for the lost? In the prodigal son, did the father reject his son after learning of his intentions for his inheritance? Did he send his son away when his son finally came back? Did the son repent to his father or to himself realizing he had been very mistaken to leave. What was his father doing when he did decide to go home? He was constantly scanning the horizon for as far as he could see LOOKING for his lost son and waiting with loving open arms. There was no condemnation, no judgement and no punishment. The brother however felt his brother did not DESERVE such good and joyful treatment because he made the choice to willfully sin and leave. The brother was jealous and angry because he thought his fathers judgement was UNJUSTIFIED and not PUNISHMENT. What was the fathers judgement? Love, grace, mercy and forgiveness and nothing else was shown to the lost son. In the parable of the lost coin, did the LOST coin go looking for the woman? No the woman searched every inch of her house and with a lit candle I might add to find the coin and when she did she rejoiced. There is a common theme in all three of these parables and a reason they were told at the same time, the Shepard, father, owner did the seeking and searching, never gave up and rejoiced when what was lost was found. God says “I will never forsake you or leave you.” Psalm 139 says “7Where can I go to escape Your Spirit? Where can I flee from Your presence? 8If I ascend to the heavens, You are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, You are there. 9If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle by the farthest sea, 10even there Your hand will guide me; Your right hand will hold me fast. 11If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me, and the light become night around me”— 12even the darkness is not dark to You, but the night shines like the day, for darkness is as light to You. 13For You formed my inmost being;a You knit me together in my mother’s womb. 14I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.” neural have faith my friend in the love and mercy of the Lord. You said in your first post here that all sin has been forgiven and no one can escape the salvation and grace of the Lord. There is no burning Hell people will be sent to for eternity. The only consuming and burning fire is God himself and his fire is refining and purifying for the good, not for destruction and damnation. It said the sodom and Gomorrah burn forever, which the physical cities are in that state, they are gone forever. Look however what is said about the CITIZENS of these cities who practiced sadistic sexual abuse and rape on a constant basis. These people were broken to the point of no return in this life and God was being merciful by destroying the cities to stop the horrible abuses that were happening. “But I will restore Sodom and her daughters from captivity, as well as Samaria and her daughters. And I will restore you along with them.” I also pose another question, find a bible verse that says we only have this lifetime to repent or a time limit or that God will not acknowledge it at the judgement seat.
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Post by Natalie on Aug 17, 2019 10:20:14 GMT -6
I went looking for an answer for you cwood. I found the question posted here (this website is Ravi Zacharias International Ministries).
Here is part of one of the answers: Why would Jesus tell parables like these if there was a chance for these men after they died?
There is the verse "today is the day of salvation". 2 Corinthians 6:2 Sure sounds urgent. Why say this if the day of salvation can happen after you die?
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Post by mike on Aug 17, 2019 10:22:10 GMT -6
cwood85I also pose another question, find a bible verse that says we only have this lifetime to repent or a time limit or that God will not acknowledge it at the judgement seat. Does this work? Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
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Post by cwood85 on Aug 17, 2019 12:52:53 GMT -6
I went looking for an answer for you cwood. I found the question posted here (this website is Ravi Zacharias International Ministries). Here is part of one of the answers: Why would Jesus tell parables like these if there was a chance for these men after they died?
There is the verse "today is the day of salvation". 2 Corinthians 6:2 Sure sounds urgent. Why say this if the day of salvation can happen after you die?
Luke 12:15-21 is not about salvation but relying on the Lord and his abilities to provide for us and are efforts to ensure our life are basically futile because the lord is the one in control. Jesus explains this to the disciples and that God will provide. The parable of the rich rich man and Lazarus actually coincides a bit with Luke 12. No matter what we gain for ourselves in this life, materials, money, riches, nice clothes or mansions, it does not follow us to the grave. The rich man cares nothing for the poor man who was in his sight and only about himself. The rich man was in torture (testing or being checked for purity in The Greek, the word used here means touchstone) in his grave/hades. Jesus gave This parable for good reason and it wasn’t to warn of eternal torture in Hell, it was to warn of hoarding the materials and riches of this world will bring you no satisfaction or ensure your life and you will be miserable constantly trying to ensure your own life. It is no irony that this parable comes just a little before Jesus speaks to the rich young man telling him he will gain eternal life when he lets go of his riches. This greatly grieved this man and he couldn’t do it. Notice Jesus didn’t tell him he had to believe Jesus as his savior to gain eternal life, but to give up relying on this world and the things in it and also by following rules does not gain someone eternal life. Jesus is trying to teach this young man to rely on God to provide for his life and not himself. Right after this this happens the disciples upon witnessing this conversation were very worried and perplexed because by mans understanding and abilities eternal life is impossible! But Jesus reassured them saying what is impossible with men is only possible with God. So we must ask ourselves was Jesus telling the rich man to be perfect to ensure eternal life or trust that God can make the impossible possible and live by that. There is also a reason Jesus is referring to Moses and the prophets and Abraham is comforting and the grave is not. When ever either the Jews or the Pharisees objected to whatever ever Jesus was doing or saying, Moses or Abraham is always brought up. For example Jesus has to clarify God sent the Mana from heaven, not Moses and that Moses was dead. Those are just some thoughts of mine however on the subject. The parable of Lazarus and the rich man is a difficult parable and there are many many ideas as to what it is referring to. As far as 2 Corinthians: 1And working together with Him, we also urge you not to receive the grace of God in vain— 2for He says, “AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU, AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU.” Behold, now is “THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,” behold, now is “THE DAY OF SALVATION”— This is a quote from Isaiah: now says the LORD, who formed me from the womb to be His Servant, to bring Jacob back to Him, that Israel might be gathered to Him— for I am honored in the sight of the LORD, and my God is my strength— 6He says: “It is not enough for you to be My Servant, to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the protected ones of Israel. I will also make you a light for the nations, to bring My salvation to the ends of the earth.”7Thus says the LORD, the Redeemer and Holy One of Israel, to him who was despised and abhorred by the nation, to the servant of rulers: “Kings will see you and rise, and princes will bow down, because of the LORD, who is faithful, the Holy One of Israel, who has chosen you.” 8This is what the LORD says: “ In the time of favor I will answer you, and in the day of salvation I will help you;a I will keep you and appoint you to be a covenant for the people, to restore the land, to apportion its desolate inheritances, 9to say to the prisoners, ‘Come out,’ and to those in darkness, ‘Show yourselves.’They will feed along the pathways, and find pasture on every barren hill. 10They will not hunger or thirst, nor will the scorching heat or sun beat down on them. For He who has compassion on them will guide them and lead them beside springs of water. 11I will turn all My mountains into roads, and My highways will be raised up. 12Behold, they will come from far away, from the north and from the west,b and from the land of Aswan.c ” 13Shout for joy, O heavens; rejoice, O earth; break into joyful song, O mountains! For the LORD has comforted His people, and He will have compassion on His afflicted ones.
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Post by cwood85 on Aug 17, 2019 13:36:22 GMT -6
cwood85 I also pose another question, find a bible verse that says we only have this lifetime to repent or a time limit or that God will not acknowledge it at the judgement seat. Does this work? Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.From John:19And this is the verdict(judgement): The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.” in the name of God’s one and only Son. •From second Corinthians 5 about the Lords judgement: ” 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad. •and later in the chapter: “ 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s trespasses against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation.” To stay on topic with the original post in regards to the Mark however it may be, the Lake of Fire is Gods refining and consuming fire and the only thing that results in is being purified. In some older manuscripts is is referred to the divine lake of fire. Later death and Hades (Hell in some translations) goes into the Lake of fire as well. If the lake of fire is considered hell, than how can hell go into hell?
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Post by mike on Aug 17, 2019 15:02:42 GMT -6
You are correct cwood, let's keep on topic. You, I and others have debated the topic before. While I respect you having a view, I don't necessarily agree with it. I will post in the restoration thread regarding a question I have for you.
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neural
Truth Seeker
Posts: 113
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Post by neural on Aug 18, 2019 1:44:24 GMT -6
cwood85, The biggest struggle I've had personally over the years is that some people, be they pastors or others, always have some explanation for any scripture that I might find which seems to support all-out-Grace. It usually boils down to one of two things. Either they say something to the effect of "oh, well this refers to everything *before* you accepted Christ" or they use the all to common "well you probably just don't believe in the first place." I am certainly not looking for an "OK" from scripture to just go and do whatever I want. I actually seek a better understanding of Grace. There are things that are written in scripture that appear to contradict Grace outright, yet others that support it as all encompassing. The United States, and indeed the rest of the world as well, is facing a very serious crisis in regards to salvation. This may well be a driving force beyond the great apostasy as well. We have people saying "once saved always saved", we have people saying "Grace, but works also!", we have people saying salvation can be gained, lost, then gained again. Christianity is the most confused religion on the planet at this point. But I know this: There is only ONE truth. God put His truth into His Word, and it is us sinful humans who have wrought this mess we are currently dealing with. If we truly are in the end times, we need to get our act together fast if we want to be found doing the Lords work when He returns. I intend, regardless of the status of my salvation, to continue studying and talking and sharing about Grace as I understand it, but I will also do my studying to ensure that what I say is accurate. Regarding willful sin, I will use an example from today. I indulged, willfully, and with pleasure, in the sin of judging others today (though I use that term to broadly include daydreaming about bringing violent justice upon others by my own hand, not by waiting on God's Righteousness). Doesn't matter what the thoughts were and so on, but it is a place my mind drifted. I made no attempt to stop it, and I likely will have this happen again. I can guarantee that sometime in the past 30 years or so since I first accepted the truth and confessed my belief in God and in Jesus' sacrifice, I have engaged in such thoughts a LOT. Am I proud of it? No. I am in fact well aware of the vast difference of opinion regarding the human race that I have from that of what God has. I do wish I could see what He does. However, even at this point in my life where it matters to me, if one believes that willfully, without guilt or shame, one who chooses to indulge in sin loses their salvation, I am lost. I am lost a thousand times over due to things I did between when I was 14 and just a few years ago when I really started to get serious about things. Again, in the realm of staying on topic: The issue of the mark of the beast is crucial, in my opinion, because it appears to be this thing that says "oh hey, by the way, that all encompassing Grace that Paul talked about? yeah, that's not valid anymore. Once saved always saved doesn't apply during the tribulation. Never mind all the scripture that uses words such as 'all', and so on". In fact, as it comes to mind now, I would pose that those who lean towards hyper-dispensationalism, are in a way performing their own version of Replacement Theology. They may claim "Israel is still God's people", but then they turn around and say "Grace doesn't apply to people during the tribulation, that's Faith and Works". I hammer on the subject of the mark, because it is something that is not quite so clearly defined, but has clearly defined consequences. Take the mark = Lake of Fire. As I've said before, there is no way in all eternity that the human beings who worship the anti-Christ would not use their free will to round up and force the mark onto Christians knowing that it would invalidate their salvation.
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Post by mike on Aug 19, 2019 8:42:04 GMT -6
venge - not really directing this specifically at you but your post stating "its not a microchip" combined with the post I made regarding Cain and the mark on him. I agree and dont believe this 'mark' is a chip. Could technology play a role in the end times, sure why not but something I consider when I see the news headlines whether it be microchips in skin, killing babies, murdering people, rampant sexual deviancy and the list goes on Ecc 1:9 - The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. 10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
This really helps me connect what Jesus said: Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. There really is nothing new. Is it more intense, maybe? Perhaps not. But the mark will not be anything new under the sun.
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Post by venge on Aug 19, 2019 12:35:43 GMT -6
mikeAmen! Mike, you caused me to smile cause you’re searching and your getting it! I’m not saying that because you agree it’s not technology. But, you are understanding the whole thing. It’s like a fog being lifted off the eyes in small increments. Look at the symbolism of Revelation compared to the future. Persecution in OT and future God’s people killed in OT and future Babylon reigns in OT and future Babylon has a king in OT and future Babylons king sets up a statue or image in OT and future All bow down and worship it in the OT and future And it goes on and on. But God searches the hearts of man. So if my heart is pure and I make a mistake getting a tattoo or a chip, am I evil? But if I value the things of the world over God and put them in my heart as more important, aren’t I lifting them up on equal status with God so that in effect, I’m worshiping them? And this is what I find, the inner man. Which those in darkness will not understand
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Post by mike on Aug 19, 2019 13:36:57 GMT -6
Always venge! Its always the heart God looks at. I suppose the mark could be a visible sign, perhaps even one of defiance in the form of a chip or tattoo. There are those we see on TV or even come in contact with who would exclaim that they dont need God or dont acknowledge Him and would willfully accept something like a chip, etc.
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Post by venge on Aug 19, 2019 17:20:39 GMT -6
Always venge! Its always the heart God looks at. I suppose the mark could be a visible sign, perhaps even one of defiance in the form of a chip or tattoo. There are those we see on TV or even come in contact with who would exclaim that they dont need God or dont acknowledge Him and would willfully accept something like a chip, etc. The important thing to understand in relation to the Mark of the beast is this: Once Babylon is destroyed people cannot buy or sell the things that they lost it after. It is only then that the Mark of the beast comes. Notice how the antichrist allows people to buy and sell, those who have the mark. People want to buy and sell from the very institution that was just destroyed by God in Babylon. And that is what I was trying to explain earlier in this thread and other threads. Look at a physical mark of the beast for a second. Babylon has just been destroyed and were in a time of darkness. So the antichrist comes and we have just begun to talk about how we are going to fix the problem of trade and economic decline in the ability to buy and sell. And then we are going to take a chip and force it upon every single person in this country. Do you know how long that would take? For a drivers license to change into have everybody except the change they give people multiple years to do it. In order for people to take a physical mark of the beast like a microchip, you could not do it in two years. It would be a logistical nightmare. I won’t even go into how much time it takes to mass produce a chip that’s going to be inserted into someone and on and on and on from there. When I think of the mark, I think of Sodom. I think of the sodomites who lived in a land of prosperity a land flowing with milk and honey. And even when it’s destruction was right on them, lots wife turned back with her heart and that’s where her love was. God destroyed Sodom for many different things that were wickedly done even though they were given so much. And in the same instance, he destroys Babylon in the future which was also told to be given very much.
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