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Post by yardstick on Jul 21, 2017 18:31:20 GMT -6
Can we narrow down who they are?
It occurred to me that there are several theories about who the Two Witnesses are (and each has its drawbacks). Here are two I have heard:
1. The Two Witnesses were previously prophets who had not died (which suggests Elijah and Enoch);
2. The Two Witnesses were previously prophets who had died, and were sent back to earth for this special role (suggest Moses and Elisha).
I thought up a few more:
3. They are raptured Messianic Jews 'returned to service';
4. They are two Jews 'left behind', with no 'prophet' experience, and are part of the 144,000;
5. They are two Jews 'left behind', with no 'prophet' experience, and are not part of the 144,000;
6. They are not Jews, and are 'left behind Trib Saints;
7. They are not Jews, and are raptured Saints, returned as in #3 (I'd volunteer!);
Also, as an aside, I have wondered if they have a binary message: One will preach the Mercy of God, and the other the Judgement of God.
What evidence do we have that might allow us to narrow down the field?
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Post by whatif on Jul 21, 2017 19:01:02 GMT -6
My own suspicion is that they are what can be considered the Law and the Prophets, Moses and Elijah.
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Post by kjs on Jul 21, 2017 22:02:28 GMT -6
If you start off assuming the two witnesses are primarily for the Jewish people, since they appear during Jacob's Trouble; then I believe you will need to side with these two have to mean something to the Jewish people.
I lean heavily to them being the non- dying prophets...
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Post by watchmanjim on Jul 21, 2017 23:27:15 GMT -6
A lot has been written or said about this. Another conjecture is the far-out possibility of the Apostle John being one of them. There are several reasons why this is suggested. The cryptic exchange Jesus had with Peter at the end of the Gospel of John is one. Another is Jesus's response when their mother asked if James and John could sit on His right hand and left. He asked if they could partake in the cup of His suffering with them, and they said that they could. He acknowledged that they could. James was later beheaded, martyred for the Gospel. But John, though attempts were evidently made on his life, supposedly "died of natural causes" although nobody seems to know exactly when, where,! and how, though it is assumed he died on Patmos shortly after writing Revelation. But speculation goes on, as mentioned in the end of his Gospel, that John may not have actually died. Two theories then stem from that one: 1. That he was raptured like Enoch and Elijah or 2. That (whoa!) he is actually still alive on earth today! I do not ascribe to these theories myself. However, they are interesting to contemplate. John's interaction with the Revelation 10 mighty angel also play into the speculation that he could be one of the two witnesses.
If John were one of them, and, say, Elijah were the other, then there would be an OT and a NT witness.
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Post by whatif on Jul 21, 2017 23:32:40 GMT -6
That is an awesome thought, watchmanjim! I've never considered that before!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2017 4:05:03 GMT -6
The two witnesses may be the two male spokemen team of One For Isreal Ministry. Being Jesus believing jews, taking a big effective role today to bring jews to Jesus in a very focused and very aggresive against the rabbis at this key period of time.
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Post by socalexile on Aug 5, 2017 8:20:56 GMT -6
The two witnesses may be the two male spokemen team of One For Isreal Ministry. Being Jesus believing jews, taking a big effective role today to bring jews to Jesus in a very focused and very aggresive against the rabbis at this key period of time. I've wondered this - although we won't know. They will be revealed for sure when the Temple is built, which is likely after we're gone. |
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Post by socalexile on Aug 5, 2017 8:22:35 GMT -6
To the OP, there's a link between Rev. 11, Zechariah 4, and Ezra 4. The 2W most likely take the same role as Joshua and Zerubabbel in taking a stand against false religion in the Temple.
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Post by socalexile on Aug 7, 2017 8:45:35 GMT -6
The two witnesses may be the two male spokemen team of One For Isreal Ministry. Being Jesus believing jews, taking a big effective role today to bring jews to Jesus in a very focused and very aggresive against the rabbis at this key period of time. Eitan Bar Eitan Bar is a native Jewish-Israeli who was born and raised in Tel Aviv, Israel (1984). Graduated with his B.A. in Biblical Studies from Israel College of the Bible (Jerusalem, 2009), his M.A. in Theology from Liberty University (2013) and is now pursuing his Doctorate with Dallas Theological Seminary. Eitan currently serves as ONE FOR ISRAEL's Director of Media & Evangelism. (From 2006 to 2013, Eitan worked for CRU, in which his roles included serving as Israel's VLM-SLM leader.) Eitan's professional background is in "Multimedia Design and Visual Communications" working for various secular advertising agencies in Tel-Aviv. Eitan is the producer of: 1) I MET MESSIAH (Jewish testimonials). 2) Answering Rabbinic Objections to Jesus. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2017 16:13:55 GMT -6
More conformation they may be the two witnesses.
Look at the meaning of Eithan Name:
Eithan,
It's an old Hebrew word used to describe the light from the oil of the lamp that should have only lasted one day, but instead lasted for eight. It means strong or strength. Ethan is the English form of Eitan.
Bar,
means son
Revelation 11:4New International Version (NIV)
4 They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 7, 2017 23:04:18 GMT -6
Well even if the two witnesses are people who were born and raised in our time, it is still pretty clear to me that the real Elijah will come back, too. Malachai 4.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 4:04:12 GMT -6
Well even if the two witnesses are people who were born and raised in our time, it is still pretty clear to me that the real Elijah will come back, too. Malachai 4. More information was revealed what is meant by Malachai 4, in Matthew 11:13-14 and Revelation 11:3-6 The example given by Jesus that Elijah of Old does not have to return again in human form. In my point of view Malachai 4 will be fulfilled twice 1) John the Baptist, in Jesus own words Matthew 11:13-14 New International Version (NIV) 13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. In John 1:21 John the Baptist claims he is not Elijah returned to earth. 2) By the Two Witnesses Born in our day, God has prepared for them the task granting them the same power and to repeat much of what Elijah did. Revelation 11:3-6 New International Version (NIV) 3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.” 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.
You are right, there is a good chance Elijah may be advising the two witnesses in private, in his glorified form.
Matthew 17:2-3 (NIV)
2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 8, 2017 10:00:15 GMT -6
You could be right, but I have tendency to believe that when God says a certain person will actually show up, that that person will actually show up in a knowable way. Your mileage may vary.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2017 15:29:09 GMT -6
Anyone know the name and bio of the other guy that works with Eitan Bar in the videos?
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Post by whatif on Aug 8, 2017 17:46:47 GMT -6
The two witnesses may be the two male spokemen team of One For Isreal Ministry. Being Jesus believing jews, taking a big effective role today to bring jews to Jesus in a very focused and very aggresive against the rabbis at this key period of time. That's awesome that they are Christians and serving the Lord in witnessing to the Jewish people! But... when the rapture happens, they will be heading upwards to meet the Lord in the air with us, so I would suspect they are not the 2 Witnesses that will be seen in the 1st half of the Tribulation. Unless, of course, we're going to see a mid-trib rapture... |
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