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Post by jlr1701 on Sept 12, 2017 23:05:38 GMT -6
Hey everybody,
I am new to these forums and wasn't sure where to put this. But... I have questions. I have a few homosexual friends on Facebook, at least two of which claim to be practicing Christians. I've certainly heard of gay-friendly churches, but I've always wondered how they think they can be Christians while engaging in behavior that God clearly condemns as sinful. I know they have their excuses like "homosexuality is not mentioned in the original languages" but still...
And I currently have one transgender friend. He is a non-Christian spiritual teacher. He's into that "non-duality" stuff, and I sent him a friend request while I was away from the Lord and exploring other beliefs. Anyway... several months ago he came out as transgender, and now he dresses and wears makeup as if he's a woman. And every time I see his avatar on Facebook -- a man wearing women's makeup -- it really rubs me the wrong way. Quite frankly, it's weird!! And I know he isn't saved, despite his status as a "spiritual teacher." He also isn't making much money peddling spirituality. Twice recently he has posted pleas for money from his Facebook followers... but at any rate, I wonder if I should part ways with him or not. I would love to share the Gospel with him, but he is flaunting his decision to live as a woman, so I don't think he's open to hearing about Jesus right now...
And what about my homosexual friends?
Thanks,
Jeff
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Post by mike on Sept 13, 2017 8:39:56 GMT -6
These are tough questions to answer especially the homosexual friends who believe...there are several scriptures that deal with homosexuality as well as the Sodom & Gomorrah story. I like how Paul says it in Romans. Perhaps you can help them understand that God gave them over to their lusts? Although verse 18-25 deals with those who worship idols and deny God created the universe (IMO) it sets the stage or better said provides the context for 26-32. Below is from the English Standard Version
"18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. "
As for your transgender friend...Check out Ravi Zacharias on this topic. He provides some great insight into our skin color (RACE) as well as our "gender" being sacred. You cant change your race, nor can you change your sex. Created! In addition Deuteronomy 22:5 “A woman shall not wear a man’s garment, nor shall a man put on a woman’s cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God." - but I think this friend needs a lot more than this. He needs to know that God values him as a person, just the way he is. Dont try to change him, thats Gods job.
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Post by tiffanybw on Sept 13, 2017 11:41:07 GMT -6
Hi Jeff!
I can identify with much of what you say. I was never an atheist, have always believed in Jesus. I spent YEARS of my life in rebellion though... I'd say from age 15 to age 35. It wasn't until 2010, that in addition to "believing" in Jesus, I also started FOLLOWING Him. From there... as I did seek Him (by spending time with Him one on one, reading His Word, praying, thanking Him). As I did that, gradually, like Jesus started with the least of my sins and started working His Way up to the greatest of my sins. One at a time He dealt with them.
Where I am at right now in my walk with Him, at a point of complete trust and dependence on Him and in Him. I still have sin and NO doubt about that! I'd venture to say that I do sin every single day. But it is not like it was before. There is no more of, what I would call "willful" and "intentional" sin in my life. The old me though, I was a COMPLETE MESS. And that mess didn't just miraculously clean up as soon as I trusted Jesus. It has taken YEARS.
A few examples of the "old" me: selfishness; self hate and a feeling that I was simply unworthy... of anything or anyone, even God; extreme vanity; a need for constant attention and to feel special, beautiful, noticed, valued, approved of, and like I mattered and was worth something... anything... that I must at least be worthy/measure up to something in life (think this comes from my childhood and is generational sin in my family, manifests in different ways with each of us; meaning my grandmother, my mother, my sister, now my oldest daughter is going through it; and yes, it is partially my fault that she is going through it and so badly I wish I would have turned to Jesus sooner instead of shunning Him for so long).
I used to have this huge hole in my soul, this intense need for what I viewed as (my views were wrong) love, approval, and attention. In trying to fulfill that need, all throughout my life it led to nothing but even more vanity, self hate, feeling of being worth nothing, eating disorder, seeking more attention by carrying myself in a very provocative and sexual way, alcohol use. The reason I carried myself like that, and the reason for all of it... because I was looking in all of the WRONG places for true love, approval, and acceptance.
Love, acceptance, and approval that since I had never gotten as a child; had never received that true "unconditional love" from my own mother and so I sought and sought after it; then when not getting it turned to the other ways I have described above to fulfill it. And so, I was looking for all my life and trying to get that unmet need in me filled by my mother, by my husband, by people, by myself (pride and selfishness), by the provocative way I carried myself (attention, envied by others, feeling special, loved, accepted, approved of), by alcohol (BIG ONE for me and was a struggle that took a long time to overcome; and even required God removing His Hand from me and allowing me to experience demonic attack *not because God is evil but because I AM evil and that is what it took to get my attention and to get me to truly repent*).
What I should have done, very simple. I should have turned to Jesus. What I did though, rejected Him and relied upon "self".
(Just want to say that none of this is my mother's fault and I don't blame her. I used to though. I even rejected Jesus for years and years because before I decided to blame my mother, just that when I got into my teen years I decided that it couldn't be my mother's fault and it couldn't be my fault and because I couldn't reconcile in my head my mother's relationship with Jesus yet her being able to do all the things she did to me and my sister... and so for many years I blamed Jesus. For the record, it wasn't His Fault either. It was mine and mine alone.)
I thought I was done. Turns out, nope (imagine that lol)! Jesus is still working with me on it; through me giving more and more of myself to Him, through prayer, and through discussion with friends who follow Christ. They all have helped me to see that the fault lies with Satan, with sin, and with the generational stronghold of sin that exists in our family. My mom is just like me, a victim of it. Her mother also, a victim of it. My sister is a victim of it. My oldest daughter is a victim of it. (I plan on making her the LAST victim of it. It will NOT pass to Angelina or to anyone else in the future because God is going to do whatever it takes to STOP it! I KNOW this... because I have Faith, because I TRUST Him completely, and because I am fighting For Him and Through Him to win this battle and it is a battle that WILL be won. It will be won by Him who is Faithful and True and will answer my prayers for our family.
I tell you about all of that, to let you know, that your homosexual friends who claim to know Jesus; and your transgender friend; really any and all of your friends, family, loved ones... we all have sin. And it is Satan that is to blame.
For each and every one of us... just that it is not for me to confront my mom about this sin in my family (unfortunately I thought I could and did try and FAIL MISERABLY).
It is up to each and every one of us, and our own choice to either deal with our sin or not deal with our sin. Give it to Jesus or not.
I guess what I am trying to say, is that if a person truly knows Jesus, and more importantly trusts Jesus with ALL in their life, just that Jesus WILL sanctify that person, will deal with that person one on one through The Holy Spirit, will convict that person of their sin, and then that person will have a choice to make. It is a choice that I have made over and over and over again. I don't even think I'm done making it yet, nor do I think any of us are; not until we get to Heaven and our corrupt flesh bodies gotten rid of and replaced by incorrupt, glorified, sinless bodies. I can't wait till that happens! But until then, I think there will come other forks in this road called life, and this narrow path called Jesus that I have chosen to take.
Since I am on the narrow road that is Jesus, no matter what my Salvation is secure. Technically, I guess I could go buy a box of wine and get completely sloshed. The thing is, I don't want to. The thought of it actually turns my stomach and makes me sick. The reason it didn't use to, in fact I loved doing it. But now, not at all... it is because of Jesus. He has dealt with me, He gave me a choice, I made my choice and I chose Him. He let me know that I was NOT my own but HIS. And that He did NOT want me doing what I was. Oh, did He let me know BIG TIME (because at first I did not listen to Him and willfully went against His Will).
I am HIS though. I don't want to go against His Will. And that is evidence that I truly know Him, truly trust Him, am truly His. It is something that only "me" and "God" can know.
It is the same for your friends. My advice to you would be to share with them the Gospel, the message of Salvation. Share with them the crazy things happening in this world and then talk about how it relates to end times that are spoken of in God's Word. Share about the Revelation 12 Sign, about whatever you wish to share about. But don't convict them of their sin. It is not for you to do, but is for God to do. And so when it comes to that area, what you do, is get down on your hands and knees... and PRAY for them.
Because really, I don't know and you don't know if your homosexual friends who claim to know Jesus, whether they actually do know Him or not. Only that friend knows, and God knows.
Let me tell you though, from personal experience, if those homosexual friends do know Jesus... He will NOT let them sit and fester in the sin they are living in. He will convict them. And they will choose and it is their choice to make. For you, it is only to tell them of what Salvation is, in case they are deceived and think they have Salvation but they really don't because they have no idea what Salvation truly is. For you: Tell them about Salvation. For God: Convict them. Judge them. Sanctify them.
You probably have many heterosexual friends who are living in just as much sin as your homosexual friends. Just as much sin as your transgender friend. Sin is sin and God doesn't care. Sin that is heterosexual in nature is just as bad as sin that is homosexual, transsexual, and whatever other new and sick things the world comes up with in the future. All of it, sin.
This is not to say that you should never give a person advice, or lead them in the direction towards convicting them of their sin. But, you have to know when that person is ready and receptive to being spoken to about it. My mistake with my mom was... she honestly does not even see her own sin. I don't know why. Either she does and is in complete denial, or she sees it and has chosen the sin and so God has stopped trying to convict her about it because He has already tried and tried, or maybe He has convicted her and is working in her and dealing with her right now.
It is the same for your friends. If, for example, they were living in your house, you paying to support them... then absolutely you should speak up and tell them "not under your roof". If it is a son or daughter it is our responsibility as parents to NOT enable them in sin. If we do, that is ON US and WE are committing and engaged in the sin with them by enabling it. It is called "tough love" and this, I believe anyway, is what God is talking about in the Bible when He says... "Spare the rod and spoil the child." He is NOT telling us to beat our children, who are not even 1/4 our size, completely defenseless... not telling us to beat them with a rod. He is telling us to LOVE them; like He LOVES us. And that means being tough when it is required. Not because you want your child to suffer (same as with God and His coming Judgement upon the world... not because He will sit back and laugh and enjoy what must happen). But because we love our children and we want for them Jesus, and eternal life. In the same way, this is why Judgement is coming to this world. It is literally a last ditch attempt to save whomever will be left upon it once Jesus comes for us, His Church.
One last thing... Don't lose sight of you and your relationship with Jesus. You have just returned to Him and so better believe that the devil is not happy about that. It is possible that Satan would use these friends against you to try and entice you into backsliding. And so no matter what, consider first your own relationship with Jesus.
For me, I ended completely deleting my Facebook. There was just so much of my past on there, the "old" me. I finally ended deleting it because for me... just that The Holy Spirit told me to and so I did. It never led to anything good. Constant drama, arguments, and sin. In addition, the "me" that is on Facebook; that is NOT who I am anymore. And so I deleted it.
This is not to say that you have to delete your Facebook. For me personally, this was the right decision and what Jesus told me to do. For you, it could be different. He could use you through Facebook to reach others. Best thing to do on that... just like with your friends... pray on it. And always and no matter what... Trust Him.
Love you Brother!
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Post by mike on Sept 13, 2017 12:17:54 GMT -6
If you get thru tiffanybw short novel I would add one or two small items. While I agree with most of what she said (yes i read it TIFF) I dont fully agree with this " we all have sin. And it is Satan that is to blame." Satan is to blame for some things but we have sin nature. This is proven through scripture and will ultimately be revealed when Satan is locked up for a thousand years, yet men will still rebel. It is the nature. Now one other in addition to Tiff's note - I always wondered what it meant to sin, transgress, and have iniquity. If you know then ignore the rest. If not sin are those unintentional violations of the Lord's "law" or ways, we all do that every day, sometimes we realize sometimes we dont. Trasngress - think of Eve...God told them dont eat the fruit from the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil. She knew what she was doing, knew it was wrong, but did it anyway. (I blame her for this whole mess ) Iniquity - when we continue to transgress, God basically gives us over to our own desires.
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Post by tiffanybw on Sept 13, 2017 13:41:49 GMT -6
If you get thru tiffanybw short novel I would add one or two small items. While I agree with most of what she said (yes i read it TIFF) I dont fully agree with this " we all have sin. And it is Satan that is to blame." Satan is to blame for some things but we have sin nature. This is proven through scripture and will ultimately be revealed when Satan is locked up for a thousand years, yet men will still rebel. It is the nature. Now one other in addition to Tiff's note - I always wondered what it meant to sin, transgress, and have iniquity. If you know then ignore the rest. If not sin are those unintentional violations of the Lord's "law" or ways, we all do that every day, sometimes we realize sometimes we dont. Trasngress - think of Eve...God told them dont eat the fruit from the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil. She knew what she was doing, knew it was wrong, but did it anyway. (I blame her for this whole mess ) Iniquity - when we continue to transgress, God basically gives us over to our own desires. Awwww! Thanks for reading my novel! Also, you are right, it is Eve's fault! Seriously though, I agree with every word you have written. Pretty much... Satan IS sin. When Eve disobeyed she knew exactly what she was doing. This is because God made her in His Image. And God has Free Will and He gave us that same free will that He Has. She knew what she was doing, and Adam knew what he was doing too! (So there and it is his fault too! Ha, Ha!) It is our choice. Just like it was Eve's choice. It's just that because Eve decided to do what she did, deciding to do it even though she was perfect and surrounded by God who is sheer Perfection; she still could choose. Just like the angels can choose. I would imagine that this is what life is all about. Making our choice. It is why Satan will be released for a time after the end of 1,000 years. Because even the people who are alive in the Millennium... will be so lucky and live in a perfect place just like Adam and Eve did... They will still have to make a choice. And it completely baffles me; but from what it says in His Word, some are actually going to choose (themselves and so their own fault) Satan (who is sin). Not me! No thank you! And I can't wait to get out of this corrupt and fallen body that I am stuck with... All because of Eve!!!
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Post by whatif on Sept 14, 2017 9:12:29 GMT -6
I guess what I am trying to say, is that if a person truly knows Jesus, and more importantly trusts Jesus with ALL in their life, just that Jesus WILL sanctify that person, will deal with that person one on one through The Holy Spirit, will convict that person of their sin, and then that person will have a choice to make. It is a choice that I have made over and over and over again. I don't even think I'm done making it yet, nor do I think any of us are; not until we get to Heaven and our corrupt flesh bodies gotten rid of and replaced by incorrupt, glorified, sinless bodies. I can't wait till that happens! But until then, I think there will come other forks in this road called life, and this narrow path called Jesus that I have chosen to take. ... Let me tell you though, from personal experience, if those homosexual friends do know Jesus... He will NOT let them sit and fester in the sin they are living in. He will convict them. And they will choose and it is their choice to make. ... One last thing... Don't lose sight of you and your relationship with Jesus. You have just returned to Him and so better believe that the devil is not happy about that. It is possible that Satan would use these friends against you to try and entice you into backsliding. And so no matter what, consider first your own relationship with Jesus. Amen to this, tiffanybw! All believers in Jesus are on a journey of being changed by His Holy Spirit, and that journey won't be completed until we see Him face to face and are made perfect. And I do believe each individual believer has their own particular sins that are harder to be changed and their own particular sins that are easier to be changed. I know where my own particular sins have been in my past, many of which no longer are an issue for me, as the Lord has worked at letting me see the truth and has changed my mind and heart about them. But others of my particular sins are more difficult for me, and I am still in frequent battle against them. Sometimes they get the better of me and I fail. If jlr1701's homosexual friends have indeed been saved by the Lord, I know He will work on changing them more and more toward His likeness as their journeys continue.
My only caution would be, as you have said, the possibility that they may encourage others to participate in sin. There is a tremendous move among the homosexual movement to infiltrate and change churches that teach the truth of the Bible so that the lifestyle of homosexuality is no longer viewed as sin, but something to celebrate and take "pride" in.
So, jlr1701, I encourage you to pray for your homosexual friends who say they are believers in Jesus, to be kind to them, to share the Bible with them in love, to allow the Lord to work on their hearts through His Holy Spirit as He does for all of us, but also to be watchful for their attitudes toward truth and whether they are attempting to lead others toward sin.
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