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Post by rt on Oct 6, 2017 8:26:36 GMT -6
I really don't want to be a Debbie downer here, but there is an awful lot of speculation going on in this thread that is based on foundations that are not necessarily correct. I understand that many here have put a considerable amount of effort and time into researching these ideas and what I am saying comes across as an unfair criticism. Trust me when I say that I mean no disrespect and am not trying to take a speck out of anyone's eye. I just want to offer words of caution, date speculating can be fun, and interesting and yes even exciting to think about, but in all honesty after having traveled down that path myself in years past, I have to say it is unproductive and often only leads to discouragement. I would suggest rather than spending time researching dates, that one spend their time researching God's word, which only leads to true knowledge and it never leaves you disappointed. I understand that prophecy lends itself to speculation and I admit that even I have done so in order to connect things that make sense to me. But I always try to base my speculation solely on scriptural support. Build a case based on scripture, not on what other people say, not on what people have said in the past, not on current thinking about a certain subject. Don't set yourself up for discouragement.
I tend to believe that the recent celestial sign that just occurred may be a fulfillment of Revelation 12, but what it actually means is pure speculation. It may mean that the rapture could happen on that day, which we all now know isn't the case. It may mean that the rapture is imminent, which remains to be seen, and how imminent is another question that none of us can answer. Or perhaps it isn't a fulfillment at all, and what John saw isn't related to the constellations in any way and if so, we have all spent a lot of time and energy following a white rabbit down a hole to nowhere.
I really am sorry if what I say offends anyone, that is not at all my intent. I aim to encourage each of you to study God's word for what it says. Prophecy is difficult and none of us is going to pin it down precisely. Please use caution, measure what you find in your research against what God's word actually says, not what others have said it means.
I feel I have found a home here, with like minded believers, who are eager to meet their Lord, which is so wonderful, but let's not allow our eagerness to lead us down the rabbit hole.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 8:35:51 GMT -6
I have seen a couple times in discussions on timing that "since the church is not under the law, the timing of events relative to the law (like circumcision and purification periods) should not weigh into our understanding of how God will deal with the church."
The law was not just a set of random rules by which God asked the Hebrew children to live. He did not just say, "Hmmm. What else should I obligate them to do? I know, I'll have them do this...." No the law was a picture of the character of God. The basis of which is Love. All the law is Love. Each law was written because of something in God that existed before the law. Now the expression of God's character within the law is indeed a small part of who he is - he cannot be fully contained within a written set of commandments.
So - very true - we are not under the law from a position of needing to obey it in order to be saved. But that does not make the law void and useless. There are much deeper spiritual meanings behind the law which reveal who God is. The presentation of the sons on the 8th day was not first a law. It was first WHO GOD IS. Therefore, he wrote it as a law. See the difference? And because of this, we can expect that he will use the patterns within the law as he fulfills his plan according to WHO HE IS.
Now where we may fall short is in understanding his law and therefore applying it in the wrong way. In our haste to embrace grace, we neglect the teaching in the law. But when we set it aside and do not receive instruction from it - we miss out on a gift that is contained therein.
This meditation is not for the purpose of better obeying the law, but rather for the purpose of understanding God. Which causes us to walk in the knowledge of God. It may appear like obedience, because who, after understanding truth, would walk in a lie?
* * *
Also, Jesus still has portions of the law to fulfill. He has not finished his task yet (In some way he has because he is outside of time, but I am speaking as to our linear historical perspective). If everything was finished we would all be about the business of heaven right now. We would not sin, we would not die. Clearly, there is work for Christ to complete.
Here is an example from Lev 16 - the atonement goats. Jesus came the first time as the first goat and died. But he comes the second time in a robe dipped in blood as the second goat. Don't be confused by the many images that Christ fulfills. Yes he is the lamb, and the lion, and the ram, and the dove, and the goat, etc. These are all images to fulfill the various laws that he must do. There are reasons why he has a sword in his mouth, rides a white horse, has a robe dipped in blood, etc.. He has laws to fulfill.
In summary - we are not under the law - but God will still fulfill the law, which represents his character. Dare I say, he must fulfill it. The question isn't the fulfillment by God - it will happen. The question is can we understand it enough to apply it correctly - do we meditate on it day and night? Some things we know, a priest must be sanctified for 7 days and a manchild must be presented on the 8th day. We are called to be priests and sons, so....
This is a new thing for many of us - we must learn to love the law again! Not from a perspective of obedience unto salvation - but because it contains the very nature of the God we love.
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Post by Natalie on Oct 6, 2017 8:47:08 GMT -6
Thanks for your thoughts. They are greatly appreciated and will give me things to think on today.
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Post by yardstick on Oct 6, 2017 9:27:59 GMT -6
And following mathematically from this: If the 1290 is from 10/12/2024, then counting backwards gives us D4L here - Hey Yardstick - Seems something was deleted here, - the end of the thought is missing. ?? Though I expect we may yet be off by up to 3 days - but only if we are trying to determine the harpazo? 10/12-10/13 fits a 3-day window right before 10/15 So yardstick , @sam - **I'm stuck - missing something - 2 things -- can you help? Or anyone ;-) - 1290 is 3 1/2 years including one leap year. 360 x 3 = 1080 days + 1/2 year 180 days = 1260 days + 30 days (for one leap year). Two leap years in this period would be 1320.
- Second Isn't 1290 in the second half - after the abomination of desolation
 So yardstick counting back from 10/12/2024 [Day of Atonement I'm guessing would put us at midpoint. am I right?? Half a year from Day of atonement would put us at Passover. Sure looks and feels and smells and tastes like Feasts are inseparably linked to the Messiah. hmmm. - It is possible that there can be dual fulfillment - that I have no problem with - multiple examples in scripture - but the Harpazo will not be signless. Why??? Because end-times prophecy is mentioned more than 318 times in the NT alone - more than any other doctrine in the NT. It's mentioned in 16 books of the Bible. Also, his first coming there were signs. Days of Noah, there were signs and warnings, Days of Lot, there were warnings. Jesus also rebuked the Pharisees and disciples because they could tell the signs that a storm was coming, but missed the signs of his first coming. ;-)
- Also, very very strong compelling evidence that Christ was born exactly - on Yom Teruah -Feast of Trumpets - Wednesday, Sept 11, 3 BC. **Incredible article on www.Torahcalendar.org
Looks like the pic from the OP didnt carry forward. I am sure that is a programming thing to keep the screen/thread length from exploding... Also, I dont think people are saying that the feast days are not linked to the Messiah. I think they are saying the feast days may not be linked to the harpazo. As of late, the presumption is that the harpazo will be fulfilled on a feast day. This is why I have posted in the past that the feasts are for the Jews and the Harpazo is for the Church. Now that Rosh Hashana (Yom Teruah) and Yom Kippur are past, and Sukkot is here, we may finally know for certain. I believe the Rev 12:1-2 sign is the 'green light' sign that is appropriate for the harpazo. So, yes, I agree that the harpazo is not sign-less. That being said, I believe we and those who have who studied prophecy in the past, have in many cases, conflated the biblical scriptures related to the second coming, with those related to the harpazo (and I am not referring to post-trib rapture theory here). I do not believe they are the same, but it can be really difficult to tell sometimes which event is being talked about. Matthew 24 is a prime example. By-the-way, there is some delicious irony in the hypothesis that the harpazo might occur on 10/13/2017 - Friday the 13th... (which just so happens to be 2 days after Sukkot ends and 2 days before 10/15/2017 - three days inclusive in either case). |
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Post by yardstick on Oct 6, 2017 9:46:48 GMT -6
So yardstick , @sam - **I'm stuck - missing something - 2 things -- can you help? Or anyone ;-) - 1290 is 3 1/2 years including one leap year. 360 x 3 = 1080 days + 1/2 year 180 days = 1260 days + 30 days (for one leap year). Two leap years in this period would be 1320.
- Second Isn't 1290 in the second half - after the abomination of desolation So yardstick counting back from 10/12/2024 [Day of Atonement I'm guessing would put us at midpoint. am I right?? Half a year from Day of atonement would put us at Passover. Sure looks and feels and smells and tastes like Feasts are inseparably linked to the Messiah. hmmm.
- It is possible that there can be dual fulfillment - that I have no problem with - multiple examples in scripture - but the Harpazo will not be signless. Why??? Because end-times prophecy is mentioned more than 318 times in the NT alone - more than any other doctrine in the NT. It's mentioned in 16 books of the Bible. Also, his first coming there were signs. Days of Noah, there were signs and warnings, Days of Lot, there were warnings. Jesus also rebuked the Pharisees and disciples because they could tell the signs that a storm was coming, but missed the signs of his first coming. ;-)
- Also, very very strong compelling evidence that Christ was born exactly - on Yom Teruah -Feast of Trumpets - Wednesday, Sept 11, 3 BC. **Incredible article on www.Torahcalendar.org
Have to go to work, this will be short, more later.... Every 3 year period has one leap year, which always leads to 1260 days. There are two 3 year periods with two leap years, as shown by the blue numbers in each 3 year sequence above. The prophetic year of 360 days is not the basis for the Metonic Cycle. Converting the lunar year of 354.36 days to the solar calendar of 365.2422 days is the basis. There are 11 days difference each year between the lunar and solar calendar. Over 3 years this amounts to ~ 33 days..... therefore every 3 years at least, an extra month of 30 days is added......hence, every 3 year cycle of 1260 days already has at least one leap year. This is pretty good, but it is still 3 days off (33-30=3).....over 10 years, this is significant enough (3 x 10 = 30), that a second leap year has to be added in a 3 year cycle. The Metonic cycle is 19 years, so, every 19 years there are two 3 year intervals with 2 leap years, instead of the 1 leap year that every 3 year cycle contains.When you multiply 360 x 3 = 1080, you are including a leap year with 30 extra days already, since the purpose of the Metonic cycle is to correct the lunar year of 354 to the solar of 365....... the 1080 number has 30 days of a leap year buried within. Every 3 year interval above has a blue number, a leap year, which corrects for the 33 day error which accumulates in that 3 year period
Alternately, if the harpazo occurs during Sukkot, then the next feasts could be fulfilled in reverse order.
It almost looks like it doesnt matter which hypothesis we use, by overlapping the time windows for all of them, the harpazo is in the 'window'. This is the idea behind that frequency distribution spreadsheet i did a while back. As we 'layer' each scenario, the parts closest to the most likely time will 'stack up' higher than the other parts. |
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Post by yardstick on Oct 6, 2017 9:51:08 GMT -6
I really don't want to be a Debbie downer here, but there is an awful lot of speculation going on in this thread that is based on foundations that are not necessarily correct. I understand that many here have put a considerable amount of effort and time into researching these ideas and what I am saying comes across as an unfair criticism. Trust me when I say that I mean no disrespect and am not trying to take a speck out of anyone's eye. I just want to offer words of caution, date speculating can be fun, and interesting and yes even exciting to think about, but in all honesty after having traveled down that path myself in years past, I have to say it is unproductive and often only leads to discouragement. I would suggest rather than spending time researching dates, that one spend their time researching God's word, which only leads to true knowledge and it never leaves you disappointed. I understand that prophecy lends itself to speculation and I admit that even I have done so in order to connect things that make sense to me. But I always try to base my speculation solely on scriptural support. Build a case based on scripture, not on what other people say, not on what people have said in the past, not on current thinking about a certain subject. Don't set yourself up for discouragement. I tend to believe that the recent celestial sign that just occurred may be a fulfillment of Revelation 12, but what it actually means is pure speculation. It may mean that the rapture could happen on that day, which we all now know isn't the case. It may mean that the rapture is imminent, which remains to be seen, and how imminent is another question that none of us can answer. Or perhaps it isn't a fulfillment at all, and what John saw isn't related to the constellations in any way and if so, we have all spent a lot of time and energy following a white rabbit down a hole to nowhere. I really am sorry if what I say offends anyone, that is not at all my intent. I aim to encourage each of you to study God's word for what it says. Prophecy is difficult and none of us is going to pin it down precisely. Please use caution, measure what you find in your research against what God's word actually says, not what others have said it means. I feel I have found a home here, with like minded believers, who are eager to meet their Lord, which is so wonderful, but let's not allow our eagerness to lead us down the rabbit hole. Pleased to meet you, Debbie! just kidding, heh... |
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Post by understanding3 on Oct 6, 2017 11:12:01 GMT -6
Hello I would like some help understanding the date Oct 13. Do we believe that that is the date of the rapture or could be the day of the rapture. I been looking at this website for the past month now trying to figure things out.
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Post by mike on Oct 6, 2017 11:20:39 GMT -6
LOL! yardstick EDIT - RT I agree with you, but that was good (IMO)  |
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Post by mike on Oct 6, 2017 11:22:08 GMT -6
Hello I would like some help understanding the date Oct 13. Do we believe that that is the date of the rapture or could be the day of the rapture. I been looking at this website for the past month now trying to figure things out. When you figure it out please let us know! Oh welcome to the forum  EDIT - There are several threads regarding trying to figure out the timing. As rt and @silentknight noted we need to (and for the most part have) remain(ed) focused on HIM! Having said that RT's theory on the tribulation is a good read if you have time to review it. In a nutshell we have tried to see what dates correlate with the feasts over the next 7 years. All of the speculation was/is tied to the 9/23 sign event. Counting backwards from the Day of Atonement 10/12/2024 we would arrive at roughly next week. Most of this is explained in this thread on the first page or two |
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Post by understanding3 on Oct 6, 2017 11:35:59 GMT -6
Hello I would like some help understanding the date Oct 13. Do we believe that that is the date of the rapture or could be the day of the rapture. I been looking at this website for the past month now trying to figure things out. When you figure it out please let us know! Oh welcome to the forum Thank lol and excuse me I am being a little bit slow should had read the thread title. What I meant to ask is where can I find information about this October 13 date. I have been to the main page and read that new artcle that just came out a few days ago but am a little lost on what the date means. My bible knowledge is a little lacking. I am still in the OT reading my way through. Now the rev 12 sign that happened on the 23 of September is to believe to be a true sign from God his son is coming. Are we coming up with theories that with these Jewish freast days he would return because of the fulfilled prorecies of those holidays. Or on that date Jupiter leaves virgo which we assumed would be the male child being born. I hope I don't come off to any of you guys as a troll or someone that wants to argue about what your belifes ate about all this. I am simple trying to understand all of this. Any links or articles about all this would greatly be appreciated. |
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Post by understanding3 on Oct 6, 2017 11:38:56 GMT -6
And thank you I am going to have to super read this weekend to help with my understanding of all this.
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Post by yardstick on Oct 6, 2017 11:42:17 GMT -6
Hello I would like some help understanding the date Oct 13. Do we believe that that is the date of the rapture or could be the day of the rapture. I been looking at this website for the past month now trying to figure things out. There is a probability frequency distribution window (for events) of time that started back on Aug 21 and ends approximately Christmas. Based upon myriad signs, patterns and hypotheses which have been proven wrong or are not yet proven, the 13th is a possibility. There is also a high possibility it will occur before then. |
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Post by yardstick on Oct 6, 2017 11:44:26 GMT -6
When you figure it out please let us know! Oh welcome to the forum Thank lol and excuse me I am being a little bit slow should had read the thread title. What I meant to ask is where can I find information about this October 13 date. I have been to the main page and read that new artcle that just came out a few days ago but am a little lost on what the date means. My bible knowledge is a little lacking. I am still in the OT reading my way through. Now the rev 12 sign that happened on the 23 of September is to believe to be a true sign from God his son is coming. Are we coming up with theories that with these Jewish freast days he would return because of the fulfilled prorecies of those holidays. Or on that date Jupiter leaves virgo which we assumed would be the male child being born. I hope I don't come off to any of you guys as a troll or someone that wants to argue about what your belifes ate about all this. I am simple trying to understand all of this. Any links or articles about all this would greatly be appreciated. It is more important to understand the underlying assumptions and data being used to formulated a hypothesis. If something is missing from the list, it will affect the hypothesis accuracy. If something is assumed incorrectly, it will affect the hypothesis accuracy. |
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Post by yardstick on Oct 6, 2017 11:46:34 GMT -6
And thank you I am going to have to super read this weekend to help with my understanding of all this. Your first priority is salvation by grace through faith. After that is sharing the good news with others (the time is too short). Then '...study to show thyself approved...' |
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Post by mike on Oct 6, 2017 13:05:09 GMT -6
And thank you I am going to have to super read this weekend to help with my understanding of all this. Like an all-nighter before the final exam! Since escatology is mostly trying to determine what God is saying about future events I do recommend RT's synopsis to which I cannot currently locate the thread. It will give you a good idea about the timeline in revelation in addition to other prophetic verses. Not that she has it nailed down, figured out but it will help you understand what to look for and what some of what other threads are about. Once you've gained that understanding (whether you use her synopsis or not) the October 13th date and other soon to come dates may make better sense. So jump on in...oh dont forget to ask the Holy Spirit to teach you |
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