Post by disciple4life on Oct 25, 2017 14:17:59 GMT -6
You bring some very valid points about Paul. This is why we need all members of the body to function, lol, with all seriousness though this is why I pointed out about making sure we are walking in concordance with the will of our Father. I do not abstain from the the fact that we need full faith, the right heart, and full confidence of the Spirit. I also do not agree that there is something wrong with the person needing healing. However, without proper discernment in the Spirit to act in the will of our Father is not always there. For instance you continually tried everything to heal your brother, but was this what you wanted, or what the Father wanted? His plan is not always our plan, but in this sinful, fallen world He works all things out for our good even if we suffer for it. Would you and your family have been saved if you brother was perfectly healthy? Possibly, but God used him regardless to be a witness to you and your family and that in itself is a great testimony!
We are all broken and in need of healing because of our sin. This includes physical ailments as well. But I know without the shadow of a doubt that the power of healing through the help of the Holy Spirit is alive and well today. Whether God allows us to heal others of physical ailments for His purpose or not, it all is used to draw us closer to Him and is for His glory alone.
I hope this makes sense.
Hello Mike, & Mike Taft,
Great thoughts and insight from both of you. Mike, I can't even imagine the flood of emotions, wanting to see your brother be healed and all the suffering he endured.
MT, I agree that God is fully sovereign, and is Jehovah Rapha, The Great physician, and at the same time, his ways are higher than our ways.
I and my immediate family members have experienced supernatural, divine healing, and even doctors told us that there was no way that science or medical doctors could explain it.
Are all the gifts alive and for the church today. Absolutely yes. ;-)
There is one huge question that is missing in the conversation and I think it's crucial to the topic of healing, and rightly dividing the word of truth.
It is a two-sided question. Rather, the same question presented in two ways. It has nothing whatsoever to do with our emotions, our opinions, or our experiences.
**Remember that we never interpret scripture through our (or anyone else' experience -but rather, we interpret our experiences through the lens of scripture.)
Is it written anywhere in scripture that Jesus healed every person that was sick, everywhere, in his whole life and ministry? NO it is not.
Does it say anywhere (Is it written anywhere) that all Christians would/could heal everyone everywhere? No it doesn't
Here is our first clue. No verse, or passage anywhere that says Christ or the apostles or Christians everywhere will be healed.
*** Now we consider Narrative vs Normative or Descriptive vs Prescriptive. I know Mike and MT know these, but everyone else might not.
Narrative is just Jesus or Paul or Matthew telling what happened. It's a story - Narrative.
Normative is a command of what we should do or what is across the board. 'Avoid sexual immorality!' Descriptive is simply describing an event, Prescriptive is a command or Doctrine that applies to Christians everywhere. "Be not drunk with wine, but be filled with the Spirit.
There were narratives in the Gospels, specific events where Jesus healed everyone at that particular time and place.
*** Now we look at the question posed from the other side.
Does the Bible give us specific examples of when certain people were not healed. Yes.
- Paul had a physical infirmity/ illness that he prayed and asked 3 times for healing. God did not heal him.
- Timothy was listed as being sick and Paul told him to take no longer water, but wine for you sickness. We also know that Timothy had "often/frequent illness/ infirmities.
- Trophimus - "Erastus stayed in Corinth, but Trophimus I have left in Miletus sick" (2 Timothy 4:20).
- Jesus himself practiced selective healing - All the other sick, lame, crippled, blind people at the pool of Bethsaida. In fact we know that only one person was healed. None of the others - including all kinds of sickness were healed.
- Many were sick among the believers in the church at Corinth. "For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself, if he does not judge the body rightly. For this reason many among you are weak and sick and a number sleep." 1 Corinthians 11:29,30
- Then, we also have one of the Gospel writers, Inspired by the Holy Spirit, - Luke, who was a physician. If God heals everyone, or if it's God's will that everyone is healed, then he would not have chosen a physician to be one of the writers of the Gospels. This would make God's word contradict itself.
- So regarding the televangelists like Todd Stone, Don Mohler, Benny Hinn, others who say God wants everyone to be healed, "and those who say otherwise are making excuses" - it doesn't make them False Prophets.
Are they our brothers and sisters - Yes!
What we can say categorically is that based on explicitly clear passages from scripture, they are not rightly dividing the word.
Sometimes, as in the case of Nick Vjucic, or Joni Eraekson Tada, and the Apostle Paul, Jim Elliot and Nate Saint, and countless others, God has a higher purpose than their healing - and it has nothing to do with anyone's lack of faith -- not the sick person, and not the person praying.
To say, he or she is not "walking fully in that gifting" or that they have doubt is not only poor hermeneutics, but a direct contradiction of what scripture says, and the work of Christ.
Does God still heal? yes, Does he want everyone to be healed. No, Not in this life, but we can rest in the fact that in heaven, Eden will be restored.