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Post by cwood85 on Dec 10, 2017 18:36:57 GMT -6
I pay attention when I see "In that day" but from quick memory, I dont recall the word "last". Which verses have in the Last Day? But to sit with you at the SK table, I am right with you sister! Phrases mean something. Like the simple word "good" or the use of the word Amen. And, to add, we should be paying attention to the word Age. And style too. Why does John have to write the exact definition of the 144,000 witnesses? He says it, and they are from the 12 tribes, but then there is this daunting list repeating 12000 from this tribe 12000 from that tribe. There is a reason. LOVNG EVERY MINUTE OF IT! Right? I have never asked why so much in my life when reading the Bible. Especially when comparing and contemplating current theologies and theories. Why do they think that? Why is this interpreted that way? What in the world does THAT mean?!? Who came up with this or that or how is that thought to be that way when clearly it quiet possibly is not!!! Oh I could go on and on lol. I guess this is what @silentknight is referring to as the chipping away process  |
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Post by grandpaskitzo on Dec 10, 2017 22:13:25 GMT -6
Haven’t been following this thread but here and there, and wow. I’m totally going to read it all through tomorrow. This has been beyond eye opening, and as well is very similar to a lot of thoughts I’ve had on these topics. God is definitely revealing things like never before. Please keep this thread up guys, especially you silentknight! I’ve got lots of study material to go through for tomorrow now thanks to you.
Lord bring the fire!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 12:59:26 GMT -6
Friends, I have not forgotten you! I have to get some work done (in the real world) today. But I hope to continue tonight or tomorrow.
We will be moving into understanding the harvests. You may feel this is boring, especially in light of the feasts studies that have occurred over the last several months. However, we will be looking at the three primary harvests and demonstrating how these feasts form a multiple layer of prophetic truth that touches almost all the plan of God. It covers salvation, eschatology, resurrection, timing, etc.
There are some potential hurdles that we will need to overcome because if we understand the harvest, we also start to see that things will not necessarily play out in the manner in which the church as been taught for the last 200 years. But, hey, you've if you are still reading this thread then you have already overcome great hurdles - what are a few more! Right?
Here is some food for thought to get started:
Exo 23:14 Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto me in the year.
Exo 23:15 Thou shalt keep the feast of unleavened bread: (thou shalt eat unleavened bread seven days, as I commanded thee, in the time appointed of the month Abib; for in it thou camest out from Egypt: and none shall appear before me empty:)
Exo 23:16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.
Exo 23:17 Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord GOD.
Do not become worried about the males - it is a spiritual law and,
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
These feasts occur at Passover, Pentecost, and Tabernacles.
Also, we will need to go into understanding Hagar and Sarah. If some of you are looking for areas to prepare for, this is in regard to our current events and will be, yet another difficult topic. Any study you do of these two women between now and when I can post on this topic might be useful to us.
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
Gal 4:20 I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.
Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
May the Lord bless you in your reading.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 13:22:43 GMT -6
Question that I have been wondering for a while now. I went into scriptures and counted how many times I found this saying in verses (it was a lot of that phrase that I could find) I will reference scripture if anyone would like. "In or on the last day" or "that last day" or "the day of the Lord," I have noticed many attribute this to the tribulation. Why is that? When on one hand the tribulation is considered the unfulfilled WEEK of seven years of Daniels 70th week, and specified as a WEEK of 7 years, why when scripture says the "day or the Lord, the last day, and etc are these two considered the same? I don't mean this to be cheeky. While I see the timeframe being around the same or similar, I don't think they mean the same thing and have always had this nagging that they don't or there is something else going on there and two and two are just not being put together. Particularly when Paul references to our gathering together with the Lord on THAT LAST DAY. If anyone wants to chime in on this please do. @silentknight has my brain really analyzing and picking things apart like I never have and asking for a lot more guidance from the Holy Spirit. Also I know you noted due to world events SK, that you may need to detour more into end time study and how it relates to restoration. Ready when you are Especially if Turkey breaks it alliance with Israel as they are now referring to them as a terrorist state... Things are moving very fast. Not seeing another answer, I can offer my understanding. The Day of the Lord is not a single day - it is a day as in the "A day is as a 1000 years" type of day. But, like most prophetic words, it has multiple meanings. Typically three. In this case we have this: * Each of us experience a Day of the Lord in our lives * The first day of Christ's return is the Day of the Lord * The full Day of the Lord continues as the 7th day of creation (the millennial reign of Christ on Earth) It is the Last day, because it is the 7th day of the this(our current) week of creation. It is followed by the Ages of Ages - which (in my opinion), extends for 6 more "weeks". At that point, the Jubilee will be declared - all debt(sin) erased - all land(man) brought back to its proper owner (God) - and all Creation will rest. What scripture doesn't tell us is - then what! What shall be our future when we are all in all in God? I don't know - but I'm pretty sure it's going to be Cool! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 17:28:04 GMT -6
The Three Harvests - Introduction
Exo 23:14 Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto me in the year.
Exo 23:15 Thou shalt keep the feast of unleavened bread: (thou shalt eat unleavened bread seven days, as I commanded thee, in the time appointed of the month Abib; for in it thou camest out from Egypt: and none shall appear before me empty:)
Exo 23:16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.
Exo 23:17 Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord GOD.
I’m not going to go into a lot of detail describing the feasts and such. We have had a bit of a dunking in this area over the last few months and so I am sure most of you have had your taste of feast study. But I do want to call attention to perhaps some elements of the feasts that you may not have been exposed to.
These three primary feasts are the "harvest" feasts. The first two are grain based feasts - Passover / Unleavened bread is in conjunction with the firsts fruits of the barley harvest. Pentecost is the presentation of the first fruits of the wheat harvest. Tabernacles is a collection of harvests at the of the end of the summer months, but is primarily a presentation of the grape harvest with one vial of wine being poured out each day of Tabernacles. If that is jogging a memory in some of you - good.
Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
Short Detour —
You may also see another pattern - (I’m gonna get you guys seeing patterns all over the place!) We have grain - which makes bread, and we have grapes which make wine. Remind you of anything? Communion?
You see, one thing we often forget when we begin to think of our walk, and our rapture, and our salvation - is that it really is not about us. It is about God - it is about Jesus. (I imagine He is right now saying, True - but that makes it about you - cause I love you!)
We are coming into the Christmas season - our family reads this passage at Passover - but it is a precious Christmas passage as well.
Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
I’m hoping my highlights are enough for now, since this is tangental to the topic at hand, but I wanted you to see that Christ has done His part - but as He says,
Mat 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
You see, Christ represents the first fruits from all harvests and we shall see that some of the words, even in this passage, are indicative of various forms of harvesting. We also see that He shall be satisfied with what He has accomplished. We also see that he was the first communion:
1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Psa 22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
and this interesting tidbit:
Luk 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
Oh it is all so delicious! We can say this because we know the end of the story!
Ok, back on topic ——
There are several primary images that God uses to represent the summation of His work. Conception and birth is one, Clay and pottery is another, but some of the clearest imagery patterns are to be found in the agricultural images. And of course, God designed a world that follows the pattern that He wished to illustrate.
But these feasts are purely divine in the amount of prophecy, wisdom, and truth they contain. I’m going to discuss at least 7 levels of truth that I am aware of - but I am keenly suspicious that there are many more levels that I am missing.
1. They represent ages in Church History
2. They represent Critical events of God’s Calendar
3. They represent moments of key biblical teaching
4. They represent stages(or facets) in an individual’s salvation
5. They represent the “resurrections” and “assemblies” before the Lord
6. They represent the process of salvation of humanity
7. They define the Restoration process
Over the next few posts we will spend some time getting to understand the feasts on this level. I will be focusing on the three primary "harvest" feasts. But occasionally, I will pull in the other feasts as examples.
What we will hopefully end up with after a few posts, is an understanding of the timing and mechanisms of the Restoration. We will understand salvation a bit better, we will definitely appreciate the wisdom of God and the beauty of the feasts in scripture. We will have some wonderful tools with which to bring to our personal bible study that will help us to see things in a new way that have been hidden all along in plain view. And most likely, we will be wondering - why didn’t my church teach me this a long time ago!
Most importantly, we will not all desert SK when he talks about the three harvests and their relationship to the resurrection(s)! Ok - maybe that is not the most important, but....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2017 22:49:48 GMT -6
The Three Harvests - Ages of Church History
We’ll cover level 1 here quickly because we have already discussed this previously in this thread. I should make it clear that this is the way I name and draw this chart up. You can call these time periods whatever you want. Scripture does not actually name them. The exception to this will be the last two on the list - they do seem to be specifically named. Ages of the Ages is a term that has a lot of controversy attached to it. There is no proof of what it means other than the words that actually make it up. In my framework, I see the Jubilee calendar of God composed of seven weeks. Each week consists of seven 1000 year days. This entire time period is the Ages of the Ages - 49,000 years. It is basically a week of weeks just like a jubilee period or the counting of weeks to Pentecost.
Honestly, I can’t prove this calendar completely from scripture. It is based on the way God has timed things and laid them out in the law. But, of course, the exactness of these things is not critical to Restoration, it just adds some potential color.
Prophetic Ages of the Ages
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Week 1 (Mortal week - 7000 years)
Mortal Week - Unnamed days - Creation to Exodus
Mortal Week - Passover - Exodus to Cross
Mortal Week - Pentecost - Pentecost to Resurrection
Mortal Week - Tabernacles - Sabbath - Millennial reign.
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Ages to Come (Ages of Ages (continued)) Weeks 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (42,000 years)
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Age of Ages - Jubilee - The first of the 8th week - On the Day of Atonement of this year, the Ages of the Ages will be over. Possibly this is where the concept of time itself will disappear.
Like I said, not everything can be fully explained or known - this is true of all versions of Christianity. So in some cases, I will give you my thoughts and ideas, in other cases, if I have direct revelation on a matter, I will share that. But some things I am still praying about myself and possibly some of you will be shown some answers or have ideas. The key is that Restoration is solid and robust - it can handle some uncertainty.
For our focus in this series of posts, we are interested in those three ages that cover the second half of mortal week. As you can see by this, Pentecost is not yet fulfilled. I know there is a lot of talk of this lately - the age had an official start when the Spirit came down in 33 AD. But Pentecost is a harvest feast. We received the earnest of the Spirit at Pentecost, but the fullness is yet to come. One way to think of this sequence is that each feast prepares the way for the next. Passover sets us free. Pentecost teaches us the law. Tabernacles brings us to the promised land. Historically, we see this played out with Israel’s experience of the feasts and the events that occurred in their history until they crossed the Jordan. This was the passover church. This pattern has been repeated by the Pentecost Church. I showed this pattern in the Three Baptisms post.
A key take away from this post is the idea that the church did not start at Pentecost of 33 AD. The church started at Pentecost of 1447 BC. And really, it started with Adam.
Act 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
This will become important as we move into future posts. We like to refer to our time period as the Church age, but it is not, it is the Pentecost Church age. The Passover Church started 1480 years prior to this age. After this age we will then move into the Tabernacle Church age.
We will want to start shifting our mindset away from the traditional thought of what the church is - this will allow us to start to see what is happening now, what will soon happen, and how salvation works. It will help us to understand our identity in Christ and what role we may be playing in the years to come. It will also allow us to start putting some distance between Restoration and dispensationalism. This may bother some of you. Hopefully, we can overcome this concern.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 11:23:17 GMT -6
The Three Harvests - God’s Calendar
This is an area we have thoroughly covered within this community. But don’t skip this post because I’m introducing something that is not typically covered by those that study the feasts. I will try not to drag this out too long. God calls his Feasts, “Appointed Times” (moedim). Think of the meaning of this and then think several layers deeper. They are the times when appointments happen. They do not just occur once. Most of Christianity is not familiar with the feasts, some are, but consider them part of the law and therefore ignore them or even reject them. Others are familiar with them and know a bit about the fact that some key events took place during the feasts. Within this group, people realize that:
Christ was crucified at Passover - please see this post for a fun revelation regarding this: Christ Presented himself to the Father at First Fruits The Spirit was given in earnest at Pentecost. And …. Somehow all the Fall feasts will be used as appointed times, too.
That is where the guessing starts again and even the spring appointments confuse us and so there is not solid agreement on how exactly those feasts were “fulfilled.” And therein lies part of the problem - the feasts are not fulfilled, per se. They are appointments. Like, recurring appointments. I have posted elsewhere that the best way to consider the feasts is on a clock face. As the hand moves around the clock, it points a particular point on the circumference - along this circumference are positioned the appointed times. But a clock can have multiple hands. So, as the hour hand moves around and strikes onto the appointed times, it instantiates a significant moment in God’s history. The exodus, the crucifixion, etc. These are two events that happened at the first spring moedim (appointed time) - Passover. But the big hand is not the only hand moving, so we see the minute and second hand also pointing to these times. And when they do, a lesser, but still significant event takes place that illustrates and points to the larger events, but also provides us with understanding of the larger events as well as providing understanding to the other 6 levels of the feasts that I listed that are associated with that moedim. I’m going to show you a couple examples of this in a future of this harvest series and then you can start exploring and having fun yourselves. But this post is just to clarify that second level of feast understanding - the appointed times of God from the Calendar perspective. Instead of considering the feasts as having particular fulfillments - they are continuing. Now, it is possible that eventually, there will be a true, final fulfillment of the Feasts - I would guess this would take place after the Ages of the Ages has ended and a new set of appointed times is created. But I suppose these appointed times could even reign beyond that timeframe. So when we begin debating on Pentecost being fulfilled - or Jesus can’t have been born on Trumpets cause that would be out of order and also cause Trumpets hasn’t been fulfilled yet - we are missing the point. None of them are fully fulfilled yet. But all are in the process of illustrating the grand plan of God’s appointed times. They have had temporal fulfillments, but are not completed spiritually yet.
With that - I will layout my understanding of the primary events (the hour hand events) of the feasts:
Passover - Started and Ended the Passover Age - The sacrifice of the redeeming Lamb - Beginning of establishing sonship
Unleavened Bread - represent the legal standing of us in Christ - though we still sin - it is legally covered - we are justified - but our sin is not gone. You can think of this as God’s view of us through the blood of His son. This may bring tears to your eyes - that’s ok - I’ll give you moment. —— Ok continuing - the feast of unleavened bread is often claimed to be fulfilled by Jesus’ burial - but that does not make much sense. Some claim the leaven was taken out of the house and buried. But they are missing the key elements of the feast - 1. what it means in the plan of God - 2. it was a seven day feast that began at Passover. Typically, these theories are created because Jesus was buried during unleavened bread and the originators of the theories don’t understand leaven, or the work of Christ in saving us from our sin, or the seven days - 3. It is a harvest feast as we saw at the beginning of this series - the barley harvest. First Fruits - or The Wave-Sheaf Offering - The acceptance of the Harvest, based on the first fruits. When the first fruits are accepted, it makes the entire crop acceptable. Jesus ascended to his Father as the priests were offering up the first Fruits in the temple. The Hebrew Children had just crossed the Red Sea and the corruption of their past - Egypt - was cast into the sea. Pentecost - The pouring out of the Spirit - The writing of the Law - This is also a grain harvest - and is the offering of the first fruits of the wheat harvest. There is much controversy over this feast today - mainly because it is the age we are in. And true to it’s symbolism, it is leavened. The purpose of this feast is to recognize the first fruits of a harvest that will contain leaven. I will get more into this when we talk about the resurrections and salvation. Pentecost of 33 AD started the age of Pentecost. But Pentecost is a complicated age. There were two wheat harvests. Some wheat was ready at Pentecost - some wasn’t ready until 50 days later. This is the winter and summer wheat. And so we see that the wheat harvest itself overlaps some of the fall harvests. The timing of then end of the Pentecost age is two fold - and this is what we see some of our brothers and sisters seeing in other threads. I hope to shed some light on this when we get to resurrections and assemblies. Day of Shouting - Feast of Trumpets - Day of the Awakening Blast - Hmmm. I just can’t figure out what this might mean. Oh, wait! I know! This moedim represents Resurrection! New birth! And is also the day my family celebrates as the birth of Christ. It is also the day that I expect the resurrection of the dead - not just once. I’ll cover that more in resurrections. Traditionally, the Jews believe this is the day the world was created. Day of Atonement - This is THE DAY! JUBILEE! This day represents the blood sacrifice and covering of our sins. But it also represents the removal of our sins!!! Remember, when you cried earlier - admit it - you cried. Well that was because God saw us as pure through the blood of Christ, but remember you still sin - you still have sin. But The Day of Atonement is a two part act that starts with the blood sacrifice to cover the sins and ends with the taking away of our sins. Praise God! You can cry again - but maybe this time - don’t - rejoice! Christ performs both of these acts. But only the first acts is completed - the second act is yet to come (from a temporal perspective). Feast of Tabernacles / booths / Ingathering - The last harvest feast - and The salvation of our bodies - Glorification - The Promised Land. This feast will overlap with the Pentecost feast and will begin the Tabernacle age shortly after the feast of Trumpets resurrection. Like Pentecost - the tabernacle age will have an initial ending (1000 years later), but will continue to manifest for quite awhile afterward as the gleaning of the harvest will take some time. This will be the feast that provides us with our new body. This will be the feast that joins us to our head, Jesus Christ. We will be presented on the 8th day - the Last Great Day - to the Father. One new man! Ok. That concludes the critical events on God’s calendar - I am going to switch the order of my 7 levels just a bit and will cover our personal experience with the feasts next. For those of you who have read the Hearing God thread, it will sound familiar so I will make it a short recap.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 13:07:11 GMT -6
The Three Harvests - Our personal experience of the Feasts
For those who have read the Hearing God thread, this is a bit repetitive, but might have a few more details here and there since it is more tailored to Restoration. Each of us, in our own walk, will also encounter these appointed times with God as He deals with us according to our own personal feast schedule. Christianity has forgotten about the Feasts and the beauty of God revealed within them, but in this closing of the age, He has wonderfully begun the process of restoring our understanding of His schedule vs. our schedule. Our moment of belief is our Passover experience. In our being, we have recognized the uselessness of our own l eavened work and claimed the blood of the lamb to cover our sin. We then symbolize this via baptism - we go down into the sea(die to the law of sin and death) and rise again with him(to the newness of life) on our own personal first fruits. But the next thing most of us tend to do is ask: Where’s the promised land? Let me in Lord! Traditionally, we’re ready to move onto the Fall Feasts (even though, in our Christian walk, we never perceived it that way). I once heard it said, that for most of Christianity, we get across the Red Sea and then set up camp on the far side. We start building houses (denominations) and preaching to those around us. We are living a Passover Christian life. We have not moved on into the better things of God because we have not experienced the rest of the feasts that are in store for us. We let Moses(pastors, preachers, priests) do the talking to God and we just talk to each other. Note:, Before, if I said this, some would object because what I am saying appears to be works based. I feel the need, because of our various backgrounds, to constantly remind you - we are not talking about salvation. At least not HeavenSaved salvation. I will cover this in detail in the salvation portion of this series. We are talking about what lies between believing in the work of Christ - and the Glorification of our bodies. Each of those is actually a salvation. But guess what - the “in between” is Pentecost. And, it too, is a salvation. Passover represents the salvation of our Spirit. Technically it happened before we experience the awareness or truth of it, but when we come into our Passover experience and trust our life to the lamb, this is when we are implanted with the seed of the spirit that allows us to begin growing toward a harvest / birth. To experience Pentecost we must follow the pillar of fire and the cloud of smoke. That is - we must hear and obey the voice of God. Neh 9:19 Yet thou in thy manifold mercies forsookest them not in the wilderness: the pillar of the cloud departed not from them by day, to lead them in the way; neither the pillar of fire by night, to shew them light, and the way wherein they should go.
The whole purpose of Pentecost is to hear God and learn His ways. This requires the burning off of our flesh. For a full understanding of this please see the Hearing God thread. When we first become aware of what Christ has done for us and experience Passover - we begin a struggle between the old self and the new self. We begin a struggle between the flesh and the spirit. In between theses parts of us lies our soul. Pentecost is the process that changes us from doing good to being good. Pentecost is the process that writes the law of God on our hearts as we hear His voice, deny ourselves, pick up our cross and follow Him. Pentecost is the process that prepares us for Tabernacles. This is our personal journey of salvation:
[We are saved] Our spirit is saved through the Passover work of Christ and once we know that truth we become free. Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
[We are being saved] Pentecost produces the ongoing salvation of our soul.Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author[Passover] and finisher[Pentecost/Tabernacles] of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Php 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun[Passover] a good work in you will perform[Pentecost] it until the day of Jesus Christ[Tabernacles]:
Notice - it is a journey - a process. You see, without experiencing Pentecost in our lives, we cannot experience the fall feasts - trumpets, atonement, and tabernacles. We are saved, but, believe it or not, that is not the end of God working with us! Praise the Father that he is not only the author of our faith, but also the finisher. But, of course, the process does not stop with Pentecost. We must move into Trumpets - resurrection, Atonement - the removal of our sin, and finally, Tabernacles - the promised land - our new body and oneness with God. [We will be saved] Tabernacles achieves the salvation of our body.
Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
This will make much more sense when we understand what salvation actual saves us from. All of these appointed times will happen for every human - but not all at the same time and not all in the same age. This is why there is overlap in the Summer/Fall Feasts. But .... cliff hanger .... there is a much clearer distinction in the barley harvest. The feast of Unleavened Bread.
My core belief pattern:He Is (passover - believe in Christ), and He Is who he says (pentecost - become like Christ) He Is (tabernacles - be one with Christ)
Ok. Next I will demonstrate the next level of prophecy revealed in the feasts. I will demonstrate examples of how we can use the feast days thorughout scripture to illustrate truth about those ages, those salvations, and those harvests.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 17:43:10 GMT -6
The Three Harvests - Moments of key biblical teaching
Just to keep everyone on track, so far we have covered the ones in bold…. 1. They represent ages in Human History
2. They represent Critical events of God’s Calendar
3. They represent stages(or facets) in an individual’s salvation
4. They represent moments of key biblical teaching 5. They represent the “resurrections” and “assemblies” before the Lord 6. They represent the process of salvation of humanity 7. They define the Restoration process In selecting some examples for point 4, it is a tough choice to make - there are so many good examples. Some are more clearly identified. Some are more powerful in message.
My hope is to provide you more tools - as the point of this entire thread is to empower you to take this Gospel to those that need it now and those that will need it soon. Not knowing he full extent of the coming shaking - I would encourage you to have a hard copy of the elements you feel you may forget or need for resources. Beyond Restoration, we are moving into other elements that will need to be explained to people. Currently, they think they have it all figured out and have no need of this knowledge. But when the shepherds fall, the flock will be looking for explanations as to what just happened considering it doesn’t look at all like what they have been taught from their church. Then they will want your shepherding and you will want to be able to provide it. Some have mentioned my cryptic reference to Zech 11 and Hag 2:6-9. These passages - especially the Zech passage is not easy to understand. I plan on putting together a small post on this topic soon to help clear up confusion.
As you read scripture you will find God provides us with various timings, numbers, symbols, and straight out proclamations that point us to the various appointed times. Before we knew about feasts - we simply skipped past the dates - thinking they were merely record keeping or used for tracking day counts, etc. But now, we are becoming enlightened as God pours out his spirit on us as the Day approaches. Now we look at this: 2Ch 31:7 In the third month they began to lay the foundation of the heaps, and finished them in the seventh month.
And we say, wait - third month contains Pentecost - which lays the foundation for Tabernacles which is in the seventh month. Then we could look at this passage and see what is happening and what secrets are hiding there - and we would find that this is a priestly preparation and that it involves the priests of Zadok (Melchezedec). Oh, and it also is during the time of Hezekiah - who is the “father” of Immanuel. The manchild being born in Rev 12. Suddenly - the passage means something much more than a list of things the priests did a few thousand years ago.
Now some will tell you you can look at scripture that way - that it violates some form of Hermeneutic they read in a theology school. I know it sounds awful, but throw out every book that uses the word “Hermeneutic” with a straight face. There is no such thing when it comes to the WORD. He is the author of the universe - He can put anything He wants in any order He wants and if He wants to hide truth inside a literal narrative, I will not be the one to tell Him he can’t. Tell me, in the Hearing God thread - what Hermeneutic would have allowed me to see the messages in the story of Peter on the water, the truth of the Armor of God, or half a dozen other elements? I wish I had a match for every page written about hermeneutics. In the middle age church, they simply refused to provide the bible in your language - you needed the priesthood to hear the word of God. Today, they tell you you are taking something out of context or not using the proper hermeneutic. It is all the same - keep the knowledge in the specially trained few. Don’t let the people hear God. No - hear God, and apply spiritual discernment. It takes training and mistakes will be made. But that is the faith walk experience.
But I digress! Ok, back on track. Sometimes we don’t have a date, but we have a harvest reference: Num 13:20 And what the land is, whether it be fat or lean, whether there be wood therein, or not. And be ye of good courage, and bring of the fruit of the land. Now the time was the time of the firstripe grapes.
So, what might be hiding in the story of Numbers 13? - This is the dreaded day the Israeli children decided not to take the land of Canaan. We’d hope to gain understanding of The Day of Atonement and Tabernacles truths. And indeed, they are imbedded there. We find it likely that this event took place on the Day of Atonement - 40 days after the spies were sent out. And on this day of decision - on the 50th Jubilee - they made the wrong choice. It is my belief that had they made the right choice, they would have ushered in the kingdom of God on earth right then in the 50th Jubilee. The Canaanites would have submitted to The Salvation(Jeshua) of the Lord, by the sword of the spirit, not the blade. But, the people had not spent enough time in Pentecost - they did not yet have the faith and so the dismissed the word of two witnesses - Joshua and Caleb - who spoke the word of God. The result was loosing their opportunity for almost another 40 years. This story also talks about timing of obedience and that God's timing is precise - not to be manipulated or simply made to be by hoping or pretending. Instead, they came in about 40 years later - when? Jos 4:19 And the people came up out of Jordan on the tenth day of the first month, and encamped in Gilgal, in the east border of Jericho.
Which is the day of the choosing of Lambs four days prior to Passover. So they shifted the kingdom from what could have been a Tabernacles Kingdom to a Passover Kingdom. And the rest, as they say, is history. 1Sa 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and rain; that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great, which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.
What truths could be revealed by meditating on 1 Samuel 12 - the story of the coronation of Saul over Israel. We’d expect a Pentecost truth from the Saul story and there is a great one there. There are many pentecost revelations revealed through the story of Saul. And, as a matter of fact, his entire reign stands as a shadow of the Pentecost Church. David’s reign turns out to represent the Tabernacles Church. I won’t get into all these stories now. I think I told one or two about Saul in the Hearing God thread. Sometimes it is not a date, or a harvest. Sometimes you have to figure out the date through study. Sometimes you see a symbol of the harvest without the harvest mentioned itself. For instance, Jdg 7:13 And when Gideon was come, behold, there was a man that told a dream unto his fellow, and said, Behold, I dreamed a dream, and, lo, a cake of barley bread tumbled into the host of Midian, and came unto a tent, and smote it that it fell, and overturned it, that the tent lay along.
Rth 2:17 So she gleaned in the field until even, and beat out that she had gleaned: and it was about an ephah of barley.
Joh 6:9 There is a lad here, which hath five barley loaves, and two small fishes: but what are they among so many?
These three passage teach us thing about the barley, which represents those parts of the feasts associate with the Barley - that is, Passover, Unleavened Bread, the Barley harvest, and - what is harvested at the barley harvest - the barley itself. We can use such passages to teach us, what is the barley? What is the wheat? What are the grapes? When do these harvests happen? What do they look like? How are such crops harvested? Etc. Doing this throughout scripture you begin to find answers to some long standing questions. Let me be clear - this is still something that one must hear God on. One could easily make the wrong conclusions about such studies. The bible is not a magic pill where every word is always interpreted correctly - it must undergo the same treatment of any other word we hear from God. But when we submit our idols to Him and hear and obey His word - we do begin to see the Word rise from the page. If requested from you all, I will take some more of these types of passages and show you how they can be used to glean truth by drilling into them a bit. Otherwise, I will leave it as an exercise to each of you and continue to move forward. I will, by the course of this thread, come back to some of these examples - especially when we start determining the distinctions between the harvest crops and timing. You will want the biblical evidence and some of that is contained in such stories. I encourage you to research your own timing based scriptures. You will be amazed at all the things that occurred on a certain date related to God's appointed times.
Our next post will take us into some very serious territory as we get to the heart of the point of all this feast stuff - the harvests and assemblies - the Resurrections - Salvation. I earnestly desire that each of you engaged in this thread spend some time before the Lord asking Him to guide my words and to open our eyes and ears and prepare our hearts for these next couple posts. It is likely you may be troubled and traditional walls will want to block our progress.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 17:50:53 GMT -6
Feedback requested -
Am I going to fast? To slow? To boring? Are you all wishing for other content? Please let me know what you are desiring. Do you want more room for questions? Should I just keep on my agenda?
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karen
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Post by karen on Dec 12, 2017 18:18:08 GMT -6
I'm still prayerfully reading along..... I'm the kind of person who reads the end of the book before deciding whether I'll bother to read the whole book  , ...... I'm doing my best to patiently wait along with you for the Spirit's leading..... curious to know how ' all becomes restored'; but trusting God's timing. I really appreciate all the hard work you've put into this! |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Dec 12, 2017 18:49:55 GMT -6
Wonderful stuff SK, pieces of puzzles are making sense. I had had Feasts studies before, not like this. This is WAY more indepth. But to be seriously honest here, this comment you made here put a nervous lump in my throat, like the feeling when you are pulled over by police and you are pretty sure you didnt do anything.
My bold lettering is to emphasize that is the lump in my throat that is making it hard for me to swallow my saliva, which there isnt much to begin with, my mouth is dry from my anxiousness.
BUT I HAVE FAITH!!!!
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 12, 2017 20:04:48 GMT -6
Wonderful stuff SK, pieces of puzzles are making sense. I had had Feasts studies before, not like this. This is WAY more indepth. But to be seriously honest here, this comment you made here put a nervous lump in my throat, like the feeling when you are pulled over by police and you are pretty sure you didnt do anything. My bold lettering is to emphasize that is the lump in my throat that is making it hard for me to swallow my saliva, which there isnt much to begin with, my mouth is dry from my anxiousness. BUT I HAVE FAITH!!!!
You too huh lol? I think I have a pretty good idea of what he is talking about and alluding too, but maybe not. I will be waiting patiently for @silentknight 's further post however. I still have not gotten through the last two post and am going through those shortly tonight and looking through the verses that I spoke of in earlier comments. I do not think you are going too fast or to slow SK and this is anything but boring. This has been the most in depth and informative bible study and presentation of information I have gotten since college lol. But unlike college where I had to force myself to stay awake and drag through the homework and classes, this is exciting and I look forward to it daily. SK is a bit of a Seer, whether he thinks so or not, his extremely detailed and DEEP interpretations of scripture and dreams says otherwise |
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Post by hereami on Dec 13, 2017 0:09:21 GMT -6
I think the speed of your posts is just right SK. I'm still waiting to hear from God the confirmation that He has settled in your heart. Proving ALL things so to speak. And that is perfectly ok with me. I'm one of those detail oriented kind of folk, so I rather thrive on the intricacies and illumination of the layers that God has woven into His Divine Word, whether through a direction revelation to me or through the passing on of one given by a brother. So what some others may find boring, I find fascinating and faith building. I enjoyed reading your 3:01 post about how all that just happened to happen for you at those exact times. It's almost like it was ordered by God Himself or something!😁 I've been seeing 33's everywhere since April or so, mostly when I just "happen" to look at the clock, but other places too. And I'm never looking for it, it's just always there, and moreso during "valley" times in my life. After a few months I had to do some research because it had gotten way past coincidence. Promises is what I found and so now every time I see it I just take it as Gods way of affirming "I will never leave you, nor forsake you" to me! Sorry, rabbits run everywhere in my head and I gotta chase one now and again.
Back on track, I did have a question, if there's time about something the Holy Ghost had me pause on in Jeremiah several weeks ago. Is the following scripture pertinent or related to what we are discussing now?
—Jeremiah 35:1-10
1 The word which came unto Jeremiah from the Lord in the days of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, saying,
2 Go unto the house of the Rechabites, and speak unto them, and bring them into the house of the Lord, into one of the chambers, and give them wine to drink.
3 Then I took Jaazaniah the son of Jeremiah, the son of Habaziniah, and his brethren, and all his sons, and the whole house of the Rechabites;
4 And I brought them into the house of the Lord, into the chamber of the sons of Hanan, the son of Igdaliah, a man of God, which was by the chamber of the princes, which was above the chamber of Maaseiah the son of Shallum, the keeper of the door:
5 And I set before the sons of the house of the Rechabites pots full of wine, and cups, and I said unto them, Drink ye wine.
6 But they said, We will drink no wine: for Jonadab the son of Rechab our father commanded us, saying, Ye shall drink no wine, neither ye, nor your sons for ever:
7 Neither shall ye build house, nor sow seed, nor plant vineyard, nor have any: but all your days ye shall dwell in tents; that ye may live many days in the land where ye be strangers.
8 Thus have we obeyed the voice of Jonadab the son of Rechab our father in all that he hath charged us, to drink no wine all our days, we, our wives, our sons, nor our daughters;
9 Nor to build houses for us to dwell in: neither have we vineyard, nor field, nor seed:
10 But we have dwelt in tents, and have obeyed, and done according to all that Jonadab our father commanded us.
If not, I apologize, and just disregard the question. Keep on bringing the teaching and I will keep on reading and hearing and asking God whether these things are so! Much respect for your years of studies and for putting it out there regardless of the possible reactions you have and probably will continue to receive. If nothing else, that proves the conviction that God has given you regarding what you're teaching!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 12:28:46 GMT -6
The Three Harvests - Preamble to Resurrections and Assemblies
Brothers and Sisters,
This is a preamble to moving into the next section of our study on the harvests. I have a few points I want to make before opening the next can of worms.
Restoration Stands
We have studied Restoration now, for many pages, we have discussed the support for Restoration from several directions. What you have so far should be enough for your to understand that the teachings of Endless Torment and Annihilation are difficult to support from a clear reading of scripture. Even if there is ambiguity in your hearts and minds - at some point, we must decided who we believe God is. If we believe God is one type of being, we can resolve our ambiguity by choosing ET or Annihilation. If we see God as a different being, we can resolve our ambiguity by choosing Restoration.
But, in my opinion, we have shown several different directions from which to see that it really isn’t even ambiguous. If it were not for a one word, we would never have even believed in ET. But that one word is now keeping billions of believers and non-believes world wide from seeing God for who He truly is.
The scriptures are clear - He loves his Enemies. He died for His Enemies. He is not counting their trespasses against them. He had a plan. He executed the plan. He said He will be satisfied and His Word will not return void. He claimed He has been reconciled to Us. He says All shall be made alive through the work of Christ. He is the creator of the universe and owns all the Land(people) - He owns it all. He says all will be all and all in Him. He provided us His law/His character so we can see who He is and how He will act. How He must act. He is the Jubilee.
We see that He claims He will search and seek until He has found every last lamb. We see that God is the one that must draw man to Him and that is the only way to know God. If that is the case - then only an evil god could punish that person forever for not coming to Him, when He is the only one that could bring the human to Him.
We have seen that even if one does not like Restoration - ET and Annihilation is not supported by any scripture dealing with Hell. And if we were to continue down the study of bible threatenings - you would discover that very little in the bible supports this - and none of it does if you deal with the word Aionius. We have seen how Paul, in all his letters - never mentions the word Hell or endless torment. That shows how important it was to him- or should I say - to God.
We have seen how the fire of God is the character and holy nature of his being - it is His law. We have seen that the chastisements of the Lord are for our benefit - to bring us closer to Him.
I could go on and on, but won’t. You can review the thread. And trust me - this thread is just touching the surface. We could go into much more detail - and will if we need to.
So - if you agree with nothing else I say from this point on - Restoration can stand. Restoration should stand.
Change your framework
There are many unknowns or unexplainables in all versions of Christianity. We have learned how to ignore them, justify them, rationalize them. And when that doesn’t work we can always just say that God’s ways are higher than our ways. We are so used to the holes in ET and Annihilation that we don’t even see them anymore.
Well there are unknowns in Restoration as well. But they are new unknowns and so they stick out to us and we could see them as invalidating Restoration. But, I would suggest that instead, you change your framework - your foundation - and start solving the unknowns from the perspective of Restoration. It is much more consistent than ET or Annihilation. It is a much better framework from which to start. You are more likely to successfully fill the holes. This way, even if you disagree with certain conclusions I have come to, you can strike out and find your own - within Restoration.
We must appear before the Lord
Someday we will stand before the Lord. When He asks me why I taught that He would save all mankind and restore all Creation. I will simply say,
“Because that is who I believed you to be.”
If He says,
“NO. I am not that god. I do not want saved them all. Or if we says, NO. I wanted to save them all, but could not.”
I will look back at Him and say,
“Then My Lord - You are not who I thought you were. I thought you were better and more powerful than that. I thought you were the supreme being and ultimate love of the universe. I apologize for thinking better of you. What was the cost of my error? Man was not convinced by fear of Hell. Perhaps man could be convinced by a loving Father? The world was not becoming more faithful to you through threat of death or torment. So, what harm was there in my teaching of a better Jesus?”
I expect at that point, I will suffer my whipping and then enter the Kingdom, suddenly wiser, but much sadder.
Or perhaps, He will look at me and say,
“Thank-you for taking the time to know me, my good and faithful servant, enter into the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world - and be prepared to continue your work, for much still needs to be done.”
But if an ET adherent stands before the Lord and He asks them,
“How could you think I would destroy or torture 90% or more of my precious creation?”
What will their response be?
“Because the church taught me that? Because I never heard an alternative? Because I thought that is who you were?”
Guess what his response will be.
“You do not know me!”
Or, if I am wrong about who God is, He might say,
"Awesome! Thank-you for putting the fear of God into all those you met! Enter into the Kingdom - but watch out for SilentKnight - He's still nagging me, every day, to change my mind and save them all! I should have never said all that stuff about loving your enemies!"
You are now culpable:
You, who have engaged in this thread have a problem now - Now you know. Now you have been taught. Now you are without excuse. I don’t say this to manipulate you. But to help you understand your position. From this point on in your life, you must decide. You can study and decide that Restoration is wrong. But you will never be able to say you weren’t exposed or taught about this Jesus who actually performs the task He came to accomplish.
Now - could Restoration be wrong? I suppose. Certainly, elements of it could be even if the general idea is right. In the 16 years I have been holding this up to the Lord, there are many things that He has directly revealed to me. Yes, I am not afraid to admin that God has revealed much of this truth to me. But some things I have put together on my own. And honestly, I have changed my positions on elements of Restoration over the years. I am still trying to figure out Who God is and how His plan will work together. I do not have it all figure out and He has not revealed it all to me. So I will get parts wrong, still. Hopefully, God will keep me learning and growing in understanding, but perhaps He has taken me as far as I am to go. Perhaps someone else is to take up the mantle at this point. I believe He is calling out a remnant to deliver this, the Gospel of Peace, to the church and to the nations. Are you in that number? Ask Him!
How to decide:
Those of you on the fence - I understand. You cannot be bullied into believing this. You cannot even be convinced, really. Though part of this is intellectual, in that we need to overcome our existing teaching and understanding, most of this is a matter of the spirit and heart. The spirit must open our eyes to truth and close them to lies. I can provide you with tools to help see where ET is wrong. I can show you ways to see Restoration. I can present you with scripture, philosophy, logic, emotion, etc. And I have done all of these things. But in the end, you must fall on your face before the Lord and plead with him to show you the light. Whichever light that is. I do not, in any way, judge those that don’t agree with Restoration. I used to. But God has chastised me pretty severely for that over the years. I know now to let it rest in His hands and that we are all called to different purposes and ministries within the body. The simple truth is, some ministries could not be performed in many churches, if you believed or taught Restoration. I trust in the integrity of each of your lives before the Lord and I trust Him to bring you to the calling He has set before you.
A word about grace:
Many of you have “grown up” in “Lordship salvation” churches. Some in “name it and claim it” churches. The bottom line is all of you have grown up in churches that have taught some form works. Some may object to this idea, so please let me explain.
Some would claim we must serve God - show our works - speak in tongues - demonstrate our faith - be good - no, even better. If you are in the south you have often heard the term - “every time the doors are open” - this is a brag about church attendance and is used to measure faithfulness in many southern baptist churches.
We have been under the oppression of religion since it was first invented by satan. Christianity is better then all other religions in it’s attempt to express our freedom. But then most churches continue to oppress in their own special way. It drive us to depression, doubt, bitterness, unforgiveness, and eventually - it drives us from the church and from God.
Even in the most free churches - we must still say a magic prayer - we must still repent - we must still confess. There is always something that we must do to become In Him.
Not in Restoration. Our salvation is a gift - pure and simple. We don’t even need to unwrap it. It is a legal act of God that you can’t undo. You see, God does not leave it up to us. He knows we would never be able to succeed. If you were God, would you trust you to be faithful? To believe? As a matter of fact, He has gone to great lengths to make sure we fail so He can demonstrate the truth of our need for Him. He has placed all things into HIS hands. And He will finish HIS work. HE HAS SAVED ALL MANKIND AND WILL RECONCILE ALL CREATION BACK INTO HIMSELF.
Now the question is - do you believe that? Believing it does not save you. But it does allow you to walk in the truth of it. And that leads to freedom and faith and other elements of salvation. And once you start that walk, you are beginning the process that will last until the moment we are ALL IN ALL IN GOD - THROUGH THE WORK OF JESUS CHRIST.
What a savior! What a blessed, blessed Savior! The Savior of the world! The Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world!!!
For those who have come through a journey of a works based church and have finally broken free and found the truth of Salvation through Grace alone - this next section might be difficult for you. I am going to begin to show that our salvation is based on Grace, but, there is more to the administration of God’s kingdom then salvation. We know this intuitively, but we have had no platform on which to place a works and grace based theology. If ET were true, then works can’t differentiate us - it must be grace alone. But, ET is not true and God does differentiate awards and roles within the Kingdom. This is all for the purpose of performing the actual Reconciliation and the full administration of the Kingdom of God.
So as we start this next section please keep in mind - the final goal is the reconciliation of all. But it is a process and it requires time and administration and as we begin to see how it is administered we must know that it is all based on the Jubilee - Grace - Love - and Restoration.
But perhaps you all will be fine with this next phase - truly many of you have been waiting to get to some definition around the restorative process itself. How do we make sense of the kingdom parables? Who are all the groups separated from one another? Why are there three harvests and not two? Who are the various players in the book of Revelation?
So, without further ado - let’s talk about Resurrection! (well, there will be some ado - I have to still write the post! Hopefully, I can still get to this today.)
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, ...... I'm doing my best to patiently wait along with you for the Spirit's leading..... curious to know how 'all becomes restored'; but trusting God's timing.