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Post by krnboitae on Dec 17, 2017 11:19:56 GMT -6
M't:24:20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Yesterday night, I asked God why did you tell us to pray that our flight will not be in winter or on the Sabbath. Because 12/31 is winter and on Sunday. Today at church, pastor's sermon was on Hebrew 4:11-13.
Heb:4:11: Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. Heb:4:12: For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Heb:4:13: Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
And I found a verse about winter.
Proverb:20:4: The sluggard will not plow by reason of the cold; therefore shall he beg in harvest, and have nothing.
Basically, Jesus was telling us not to slack off or be disobedient if we want to get raptured at harvest.
M't:24:36: But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. Jesus didn't know the rapture date yet when he said this. But he prophetically hinted that rapture was going to be in winter and on a Sunday by saying don't slack off and be disobedient.
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Post by mike on Dec 18, 2017 8:29:18 GMT -6
M't:24:20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:Yesterday night, I asked God why did you tell us to pray that our flight will not be in winter or on the Sabbath. Because 12/31 is winter and on Sunday. Today at church, pastor's sermon was on Hebrew 4:11-13. Heb:4:11: Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. Heb:4:12: For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Heb:4:13: Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. And I found a verse about winter. Proverb:20:4: The sluggard will not plow by reason of the cold; therefore shall he beg in harvest, and have nothing. Basically, Jesus was telling us not to slack off or be disobedient if we want to get raptured at harvest. M't:24:36: But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. Jesus didn't know the rapture date yet when he said this. But he prophetically hinted that rapture was going to be in winter and on a Sunday by saying don't slack off and be disobedient. what exactly do you mean by "if we want to get raptured at harvest"? Your statement adds a qualifier identified by the "if" we're not slack. Is that correct? How does one measure a level of slackness for one watcher compared to another? Or perhaps those christians who believe but arent watching (or watchers in particular)?
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Post by thetimeoftheend on Dec 18, 2017 8:40:57 GMT -6
M't:24:20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:Yesterday night, I asked God why did you tell us to pray that our flight will not be in winter or on the Sabbath. Because 12/31 is winter and on Sunday. Today at church, pastor's sermon was on Hebrew 4:11-13. Heb:4:11: Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. Heb:4:12: For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Heb:4:13: Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. And I found a verse about winter. Proverb:20:4: The sluggard will not plow by reason of the cold; therefore shall he beg in harvest, and have nothing. Basically, Jesus was telling us not to slack off or be disobedient if we want to get raptured at harvest. M't:24:36: But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. Jesus didn't know the rapture date yet when he said this. But he prophetically hinted that rapture was going to be in winter and on a Sunday by saying don't slack off and be disobedient. I think you are taking Matthew 24:20 out of context, this is a reference to the AOD in the middle of the tribulation. If you read the next verse you will see why Jesus was instructing the Jews to pray it doesn't take place on the Sabbath or winter, it's because there will be great distress at those times. It's not a verse pointing to the rapture at all. As for Proverbs 20:4, you will see the only reference to winter or cold relates to plowing - the harvest would come later, I do not believe there is any harvest in Israel in winter. In addition to the above, I have the same questions as mike in his previous post.
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Post by krnboitae on Dec 18, 2017 19:48:48 GMT -6
what exactly do you mean by "if we want to get raptured at harvest"? Your statement adds a qualifier identified by the "if" we're not slack. Is that correct? How does one measure a level of slackness for one watcher compared to another? Or perhaps those christians who believe but arent watching (or watchers in particular)? I don't think Teddy was indicating that a slack person who fails to do the very last, last step (watch for the rapture) will not be saved. I think he was suggesting the sluggard does not even engage in step 1. No seed is planted. That is essential. If the sluggard has no seed he will not participate in the harvest. Simple as that. Blessings. Yes thats what I meant. Jesus will determine who gets harvested and all true christians will definitely get harvested with or without watching. Fake ones won't get raptured. Example would be someone who says I am christian but I am also gay.
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Post by dennislwatson on Dec 18, 2017 20:32:21 GMT -6
I don't think Teddy was indicating that a slack person who fails to do the very last, last step (watch for the rapture) will not be saved. I think he was suggesting the sluggard does not even engage in step 1. No seed is planted. That is essential. If the sluggard has no seed he will not participate in the harvest. Simple as that. Blessings. Yes thats what I meant. Jesus will determine who gets harvested and all true christians will definitely get harvested with or without watching. Fake ones won't get raptured. Example would be someone who says I am christian but I am also gay. I think right now it is absolutely wonderful that God is the one who is sovereign (He gets to make the rules), loving (makes the rules so onerous we are supposed to learn immediately that we need His help to be saved), omniscient (He knows the true motivations of the heart and not what may be poisoned purposefully by the ptb), perfectly righteous (He judges righteously), and immutable (He does't change in His character and fool us) and as such He is the one, without labels, without restraint, without fudging, without obfuscation, He judges us. I love that He is the one to do it now. I fear because He seems to ask us to assist Him to rule and reign in the Kingdom. I better get an upgrade because I do not feel I can judge now. Blessings Saints. Soon we rise and shine.
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Post by boraddict on Dec 18, 2017 22:42:29 GMT -6
Krnboitae I agree with you. I have never been good at discernment. I can barley identify dishonest people. I look for minor errors in their stories. For instance, I recently purchased a new washer and dryer. Never had a new one. So they delivered a better washer dryer than what I had paid for. So I went back to the store and told them of the mistake. The next day someone called me on the phone and told me a story of how they mistakenly unloaded the wrong washer and dryer and when they got to the next stop they noticed the discrepancy and had no idea of where the other customers appliances had gone. The problem with their story was that each washer dryer has the customers name and address on a sticker. They knew that they had my set and that they must have unloaded the other persons set at my house. Why did they not just say that?
Consequently I lost all faith in their honesty and went back to the store and canceled my purchase and told them to come and get the other persons washer dryer set immediately. I believe the reason that they could not be honest was that they had already installed my new set in the other persons house. I would have been okay and accepted that set; if they had just been honest about it. The set at my house was still in the factory packaging and unused. I was very saddened to cancel that purchase, but I try to maintain a standard of honesty and I hope to be treated honestly. They could have told me that my set had been installed in the other persons house and I would have had a spirit of forgiveness toward them. But when they approached it condescendingly, it was simply unacceptable. They were simply unrepentant; almost like it was partly my fault.
My point is that some think a little dishonesty is okay. I am not perfect, but I value honesty. Thus, not only are the obvious who claim to follow Christ and do not; but, also the unrepentant liars will be left out. Lucky for them it is not my call.
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Post by krnboitae on Dec 19, 2017 2:22:24 GMT -6
Krnboitae I agree with you. I have never been good at discernment. I can barley identify dishonest people. I look for minor errors in their stories. For instance, I recently purchased a new washer and dryer. Never had a new one. So they delivered a better washer dryer than what I had paid for. So I went back to the store and told them of the mistake. The next day someone called me on the phone and told me a story of how they mistakenly unloaded the wrong washer and dryer and when they got to the next stop they noticed the discrepancy and had no idea of where the other customers appliances had gone. The problem with their story was that each washer dryer has the customers name and address on a sticker. They knew that they had my set and that they must have unloaded the other persons set at my house. Why did they not just say that? Consequently I lost all faith in their honesty and went back to the store and canceled my purchase and told them to come and get the other persons washer dryer set immediately. I believe the reason that they could not be honest was that they had already installed my new set in the other persons house. I would have been okay and accepted that set; if they had just been honest about it. The set at my house was still in the factory packaging and unused. I was very saddened to cancel that purchase, but I try to maintain a standard of honesty and I hope to be treated honestly. They could have told me that my set had been installed in the other persons house and I would have had a spirit of forgiveness toward them. But when they approached it condescendingly, it was simply unacceptable. They were simply unrepentant; almost like it was partly my fault. My point is that some think a little dishonesty is okay. I am not perfect, but I value honesty. Thus, not only are the obvious who claim to follow Christ and do not; but, also the unrepentant liars will be left out. Lucky for them it is not my call. Yes, Jesus will determine who has the true heart for him! If I didnt repent 3 or 4 months ago, I am sure I was not gonna be raptured. I claimed to be christian but I was living in sin without any remorse or true repentence. Wasnt even going to church. Since I have given my life to him compeletely surrendered I know I am going to get raptured.
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Post by mike on Dec 19, 2017 6:54:51 GMT -6
krnboitae - your statements about being confident "you are saved and you will be raptured" always add qualifiers, why? Your previous response example is unfortunately not accurate So the sin iniquity is being gay, correct? What difference is that when compared to someone who simply has a bad attitude towards something? Or better said how about when I looked at the girl at the gym a little long last night, I sinned. Am I no longer qualified to be saved? Or how about the prayer request from a dear brother here on the forum pleading to be delivered from bondage to pornography, though he struggles, he won't be raptured because of that? In the bold, why would you say this? Do you have an understanding of what repentance is? Do you realize that salvation is quantified by repenting, but only by faith in Christ and what he accomplished on the cross? Claiming to be a christian - Jesus is the righteous judge of our hearts. Many people believe He is God and that is the only qualifier otherwise you are attaching works with belief arent you? If by works then its not by faith. If by works, you could boast. If by works, you're not going to make it. Remorse or "true repentance" - again what are you trying to say here? It sounds like you qualify your believe by having remorse and repenting of sinful ways. While both are absolutely necessary for you to be a follower of Christ, they have nothing to do with being saved and/or raptured. Again lastly in the italics - are you sure youve given your life to him completely? You may think so, but He will reveal those things which you are not even aware of as you pursue discipleship. This is what sin is...there are sins we commit daily that we arent even aware of. Friend - dont mix works with faith. Yes because of your faith, you will want to work. But working doesnt mean you have faith. You will eventually become tired and your following will be based on your strength and efforts, not through His grace & mercy. I pray you have a better understanding of Gods great grace towards us
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Post by krnboitae on Dec 19, 2017 8:13:57 GMT -6
krnboitae - your statements about being confident "you are saved and you will be raptured" always add qualifiers, why? Your previous response example is unfortunately not accurate So the sin iniquity is being gay, correct? What difference is that when compared to someone who simply has a bad attitude towards something? Or better said how about when I looked at the girl at the gym a little long last night, I sinned. Am I no longer qualified to be saved? Or how about the prayer request from a dear brother here on the forum pleading to be delivered from bondage to pornography, though he struggles, he won't be raptured because of that? In the bold, why would you say this? Do you have an understanding of what repentance is? Do you realize that salvation is quantified by repenting, but only by faith in Christ and what he accomplished on the cross? Claiming to be a christian - Jesus is the righteous judge of our hearts. Many people believe He is God and that is the only qualifier otherwise you are attaching works with belief arent you? If by works then its not by faith. If by works, you could boast. If by works, you're not going to make it. Remorse or "true repentance" - again what are you trying to say here? It sounds like you qualify your believe by having remorse and repenting of sinful ways. While both are absolutely necessary for you to be a follower of Christ, they have nothing to do with being saved and/or raptured. Again lastly in the italics - are you sure youve given your life to him completely? You may think so, but He will reveal those things which you are not even aware of as you pursue discipleship. This is what sin is...there are sins we commit daily that we arent even aware of. Friend - dont mix works with faith. Yes because of your faith, you will want to work. But working doesnt mean you have faith. You will eventually become tired and your following will be based on your strength and efforts, not through His grace & mercy. I pray you have a better understanding of Gods great grace towards us Hi Mike~~ I understand what you are saying. I never think someone can get saved by works. Only by faith. Christians can fall to sin sometimes. We are not perfect. If we truly repent and turn away from sin, we are fine!!! When I exampled myself, I believe Holy Spirit left me when I was sinning a lot. But came back when I truly repented. I think one can lose their salvation by sinning a lot. How a lot? I don't know only Jesus can determine. Just look at Lot's wife. She had her way to salvation but she lost it by only looking back. Jesus will be the only judge. I am not judging anyone or myself. But I honestly do not think gay christian will go to heaven. Just my opinion. If gay christian truly repents and becomes straight, yes they will go to heaven. 1Co:6:9: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1Co:6:10: Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
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Post by mike on Dec 19, 2017 8:38:43 GMT -6
krnboitae I do understand your perspective however do believe you have continued to attach works to your faith. Did you ever just simply not believe? Simply say "Jesus is not God and that whole story is just a fable"? If you didnt, you never became 'unsaved' I'd say Gods view of only 1 sin is considered sinning a lot! If thats the case I surely lost my salvation a long time ago, you likely did too. In fact I lost it again today and will lose it again tomorrow even though I repent, I still mess up dailyIt is good to judge yourself and no one else, totally agree. Be careful though even our own hearts can deceive us, right? Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?1 John 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.I once held a similar stance on homosexuality. While clearly wrong and abominable in Gods eyes, it is iniquity yet covered by the blood of Christ. I'm sure the information socalexile gave you a few weeks back covers all of this. I encourage you to re-read his information as it helped me understand God's mercy even moreso. We are all lost without Him regardless of what type of sin committed. None are worse then the next. Your application of 1 Cor is out of context. Paul was admonishing the Corinthians as they had once been revelers and were come out of the lifestyle, yet it was creeping back into their assembly. Paul was reminding them where they once came from.
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Post by krnboitae on Dec 19, 2017 9:11:29 GMT -6
krnboitae I do understand your perspective however do believe you have continued to attach works to your faith. Did you ever just simply not believe? Simply say "Jesus is not God and that whole story is just a fable"? If you didnt, you never became 'unsaved' I'd say Gods view of only 1 sin is considered sinning a lot! If thats the case I surely lost my salvation a long time ago, you likely did too. In fact I lost it again today and will lose it again tomorrow even though I repent, I still mess up dailyIt is good to judge yourself and no one else, totally agree. Be careful though even our own hearts can deceive us, right? Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?1 John 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.I once held a similar stance on homosexuality. While clearly wrong and abominable in Gods eyes, it is iniquity yet covered by the blood of Christ. I'm sure the information socalexile gave you a few weeks back covers all of this. I encourage you to re-read his information as it helped me understand God's mercy even moreso. We are all lost without Him regardless of what type of sin committed. None are worse then the next. Your application of 1 Cor is out of context. Paul was admonishing the Corinthians as they had once been revelers and were come out of the lifestyle, yet it was creeping back into their assembly. Paul was reminding them where they once came from. You may be right but I honestly feel like I was unsaved. I thought I was going to hell. Because my attitude was like, "I dont care about God, I am just gonna enjoy my life, there is no sin." After seriously thinking about living in hell for eternity, I got really scared and repented, feared God once agian. Jesus will judge gay people according to his standard.
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Post by sawdy on Dec 19, 2017 9:53:30 GMT -6
You may be right but I honestly feel like I was unsaved. I thought I was going to hell. Because my attitude was like, "I dont care about God, I am just gonna enjoy my life, there is no sin." After seriously thinking about living in hell for eternity, I got really scared and repented, feared God once again. I had a really vivid dream last year as I was starting my study on the Psalms of Ascent. It wasn't a pleasant dream in any regard. It actually felt quite unnerving. In my dream, Satan was offering me my "hearts desire" in exchange for following him. But I knew that those desires were not placed by God in the first place, and therefore I was able to stand strong and say no. After I woke up, at that point I felt fully committed to the Lord. I felt as if it was a one last attempt by Satan (I know he never actually stops attacking believers) to persuade me to his side. Over time, I had slowly drifted away from God. It started in my youth and like a snowball rolling down a hill, slowly at first, but faster and larger towards the end, began making great gains up until two years ago. So much so, that my spirit was completely incompatible with my spirit of today. The universe was going to grant me my desires. I was going to have what I wanted. I was going to unlock some great secret because there had to be more than that dusty Bible sitting on my shelf. I was going to church and making the motions but not actually living the life. I wouldn't sing in church for a long time. For an even longer time, I wouldn't partake in communion. I basically was going for my kids to go to Sunday school and because it made my Grandma happy. Fortunately for me, God had time to work slowly on my heart to bring it back around. I would love to say I instantly returned to following him, but in truth, it took the better part of over 5 years. Eventually, he had to speak to me and protect me through a situation (I wouldn't listen to him when he told me to avoid the situation) before I finally "woke up" and accepted his message. But I still was slow to change. I finally made great leaps in my relationship with the Lord around the time of that Bible Study, the same time I was feeling the presence of powerful not-good forces in my home at times and they also coupled with that dream. Was I truly saved before? I personally cannot judge anyone else's journey, but after that dream, I have come to my personal conclusion that I honestly don't think I was. I wasn't really living life for the Lord and wasn't experiencing the conviction of my faith. But after that dream, after I had committed to going further in my walk by completing that Bible study, after I had made the step to stop listening to secular music (and pretty much all music in general), I saw the fruit begin to form. The fruit of my faith is beginning to now ripen. I am not the same Christian as I was even last year as I began to really draw nearer to him. My journey keeps leading me down an ever-narrowing path of which I am thankful that God has helped me battle Satan's temptations and the addictions I once suffered from. I teach my children that it is once saved, always saved. But can you turn your back on that saving grace? Like the example you gave of Lot's wife, I believe you can. Because if you can't turn your back on God, why would Satan be working so hard to get you to? There has to be more than just trying to prevent you from witnessing you faith to others.
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karen
New Member
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Post by karen on Dec 19, 2017 10:23:56 GMT -6
sawdy , you have a beautiful testimony!!! I am in the 'once saved, always saved' camp too. socalexile has many links to great teachings on this. I believe that our Father knows the moment a heart believes in the finished work of Jesus on the cross, seals us with His Spirit, and He is the one who is faithful to us. Our initial salvation and ongoing salvation are His work. Yes, it is our part to keep believing, but we are able to do this because He keeps pursuing, (even when we don't recognise either the belief or the pursuit!) I think the enemy attacks us because he hates our Father and knows that the best way to hurt a parent is to hurt their child; and to make us ineffective for spreading the gospel and making disciples of all nations. Thankfully God has the love and power to redeem our failures. I am praying for your family this Christmas season, may you have a very Merry Christmas!!
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Dec 19, 2017 12:10:12 GMT -6
krnboitae, you said this above: While I agree that you must have FELT like you were Unsaved, stop for a moment, Praise Jesus that the Holy Spirit convicted you of your sinful ways. The Holy Spirit caused you to turn from what you saw as your journey to hell, even though you were calling yourself a Christian. Do you see how that even if you say you believe that that does not prevent you from sinning. We will never be capable of not sinning in this present age, while you are alive in this fleshly body. It is only by the WORK of Him through the HOLY SPIRIT that you "turn" from your fleshly ways and start walking in FAITH in Christ. Praise Jesus that you are able to experience your Pentacostal walk now, and not later in the great tribulations to come! Yet slow that walk down (the rapture watching walk) a second and LISTEN to Him.. If I can encourage you I would have you go to the Hearing God threadThere is a good teaching of Faith there. This will expand your understanding of Faith of which you are walking, yet provide you with more scripture that will add to your Pentecostal Walk. Romans 8:10But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you. Only the Holy Spirit does the Work. Do you see? You have evidence that the Holy Spirit is within you unlike before! You are convicted of your sins, yet you still are a sinner! And little did you know, that back in your younger days the Lord began a work in you. It took time, but He opened and closed doors in your life though you never knew it. You weren't aware he was doing it, as you were not hearing him, you were listening to your flesh. Lets use the parable of the Soils. The person who led you to the Lord did not understand or see the kind of soil you were. Your soil (MIND) was of rock, or just sand. The person witnessing to you did not realize the soil of knrboitae needed mulching & compost. Had they known they would have pointed you to the scriptures where it talks about our struggles with our flesh. But THANK GOD the Holy Spirit can build that soil AND HAS BEEN DOING SO until BOOM, your seed began to grow. You died to your flesh LONG AGO, but in poor soil. Yet Praise His Word that your sand & rocks became filled with the nutrients of His Word to the point where you began to grow! The seed was there the whole time, yet dormant!!! Now look at you!!! You are now able to understand the two natures within you. The fleshly Nature, and now, your Spiritual nature! This is the encouragement to give a person who is lost. Encourage them to let the Holy Spirit work in them. Christ's Work on the cross is finished, once and for all, FOR ALL. It is the Holy Spirit that one receives by faith because this work on the cross is done, but the pentecostal chaffing of your sinful nature is not. Jesus said, Pick up your cross (faith) and follow me. He did not say, pick up your cross, see ya later.... There is much more stuff that happens in the Heaven we so want to be in. Isnt that what the Book of Revelation is all about? and if those who are alive and remain during the tribulations will have their soils worked over even harder. Let's not lose sight and make a claim that those who remain after rapture are going to Hell. Those that remain after rapture are still on the threshing floor so to speak. Rest in Him NOW! or suffer the threshing floor or the wine press in the tribulation... I am saying this to you Teddy so you can witness more effectively to those whom you see may not make this rapture. MARANATHA!
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Post by Natalie on Dec 19, 2017 13:21:33 GMT -6
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