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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 14:44:44 GMT -6
Dealing with Olam and the ages. This is more specific to the restoration thread than to this kingdom thread, but since it came up:
Another way to check this for yourself people is to look at the word olam (hebrew) and see where it is used in scripture. Don't look at what the translation was, just see how it is used. See how many times it can be applied to things that are no longer with us.
Olam cannot mean forever if it is used to describe things that weren't forever. Here are some examples:
Jonah 2:6 I descended to the roots of the mountains. The earth with its bars was around me forever[olam], But You have brought up my life from the pit, O LORD my God.
Jonah was not in the whale forever neither was Jesus in the earth forever (this is really a prophesy of Christ) either way olam clearly does not mean forever.
Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old[olam], men of renown.
These men had olam lives: they lived long and were well known. But they clearly died, because this same scriptures says they were - they are not anymore. There lives were not without end.
1 Kings 1:31 Then Bathsheba bowed with her face to the ground, and prostrated herself before the king and said, "May my lord King David live forever."
Bathsheba was basically doing the star trek thing - "Live long and prosper" Though David will acquire eternal life, this was not what Bathsheba was wishing upon him.
1 Kings 9:3 The LORD said to him, "I have heard your prayer and your supplication, which you have made before Me; I have consecrated this house which you have built by putting My name there forever[olam], and My eyes and My heart will be there perpetually.
Of course, the Lord also knew when he said that that we would be sending the Babylonians to destroy that temple a few hundred years later, as the next verse illustrates.
2 Kings 23:27 The LORD said, "I will remove Judah also from My sight, as I have removed Israel. And I will cast off Jerusalem, this city which I have chosen, and the temple of which I said, 'My name shall be there.'"
Isa 42:14 I have kept silent for a long[olam] time, I have kept still and restrained Myself. Now like a woman in labor I will groan, I will both gasp and pant.
He kept quiet forever, but then started to speak? No because olam does not mean unending.
Very simple common sense tells us that not even the translators could be consistent in the translation - they allowed their theology to dictate their translation. But one could never come to the conclusion that olam must mean forever. I just pointed out a few simple cases where it clearly did not - even when the translators translated it that way.
But sometimes these words refer to God?
It is true that in scripture the words Olam or Aion are used to refer to God. Is God everlasting? The bible says he is Olam. This is where we need to remember that most of scripture is not about forever - it is about the ages.
Let me ask you this when we sing “Oh God, you are my God....” Does that mean that He is no one else’s God? When we say, God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Does that mean he is not the God of anyone else? When we say he is the God of the Whole Earth does that mean he is not the God of the Universe? In the same way, when I say he is the God of the Age, it does not mean is not the God of eternity. These statements are calling attention to certain aspects of God and are not meant to limit Him.
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Post by cwood85 on Jan 8, 2018 15:01:58 GMT -6
Some of you have asked about the Elijah comment. I didn't mean that disparagingly toward people or their questions / concerns. Discussion is good! I am referring to his needing to wait to hear the Lord. There is so much I want to tell you, but I need to wait for each post until I have heard from the Father. And there is so much noice and distraction that I find myself getting upset with the Lord for not speaking to me on my schedule. I need patience - and, there are times where I am not as respectful to the Lord as I should be. I need to be careful not to take him for granted. But I do wish I could get this information out faster. The same goes for us readers as well Patience, prayer, and guidance. I mean that with no negativity whatsoever nor am saying that about anyone. I struggle with lack of patience myself. In His time ❤️
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 18:28:04 GMT -6
The Two PriesthoodsWe find that, in the soon to begin Tabernacles age - the Kingdom Age, God will work with two priesthoods. We have talked of the barley and wheat. We have talked about spiritual Israel and spiritual Judah. The following chart might help to organize this a bit: Barley
| Israel | Holy of Holies | Sons of God | Wheat | Judah | Holy Place | Christians | Grapes | Gentiles | Outer Court | Unbelievers |
And in Ezekiel 44 we see this division again between two different orders of priesthood. These are priests, so we know that they are all believers. None of these people are unbelievers. Therefore, if we determine that this passage is speaking of a future administration, then we must also conclude that it is describing two orders of believers. Eze 44:9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel. Eze 44:10 And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity. Eze 44:11 Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them. Eze 44:12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up mine hand against them, saith the Lord GOD, and they shall bear their iniquity. Eze 44:13 And they shall not come near unto me, to do the office of a priest unto me, nor to come near to any of my holy things, in the most holy place: but they shall bear their shame, and their abominations which they have committed. Eze 44:14 But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein. Eze 44:15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD: Eze 44:16 They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge. Eze 44:17 And it shall come to pass, that when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within. Eze 44:18 They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins; they shall not gird themselves with any thing that causeth sweat. Eze 44:19 And when they go forth into the utter court, even into the utter court to the people, they shall put off their garments wherein they ministered, and lay them in the holy chambers, and they shall put on other garments; and they shall not sanctify the people with their garments. Eze 44:23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean. Eze 44:24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths.
We know that God is building a temple and city out of living stones: His people. Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
We also know that it would be blaspheme to begin animal sacrifices again in a temple made by man. Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Therefore, let us look at what is being described by Ezekiel as future temple of the body of Christ within the Kingdom age. What we see are two priesthoods. One - the sons of Levi, and a second - the sons of Zadok (Melchizedek). The sons of Levi are given woolen garments and can use these to keep and serve in the house of the Lord. But they may not minister to God. The sons of Zadok, however are given two garments, one linen and the other woolen. These priests may stand before the Lord and minister to Him, but they can also go out and minister in the inner court. But they must change their garments when they do so. They wear linen in the presence of the Lord and wool in the court. We also see that point was that they not sweat when in the presence of the Lord. When do we sweat? When we work. This Shows that one of the identifiers of the Zadok priests is that they rest in the Lord. Whatever they do, is the will of God and not their own effort. They have fully completed Pentecost. What differentiates these two priesthoods? The Levites “are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.” And, “Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; “ Idols of the heart have not been fully burned off - and - lawlessness (iniquity) - and - Bad teaching, based on their idols. This sounds like some of our studies recently. If we bring this into a viewable picture: There will be two priesthoods serving in the age to come. One will come and go between heaven and earth as they “change” their garments. This would be like when Christ was able to come and go at will after His resurrection. The “change” of garments is an illustration of switching between the spiritual realm and the physical realm. The other priesthood, will still be ministering - and their ministry will be amazing! But they will not proceed into the sanctuary and stand before the Lord until such a time as they have obtained to the Zadok priesthood. I am not planning on dealing with the other elements of Ezekiel 44 for now, but there are other interesting items we could gain insight from. My point in this thread is to demonstrate yet another indicator of the two priesthoods. Now - for those who still are concerned about the spiritual verses physical. My advise is not to get caught up in it. Ezekiel was prophesying about physical laws and dimensions and events. I’m not saying that he was talking about spiritual things. What I am saying is that our lesson for this day is about the spiritual fulfillment of these physical prophecies. This is what I am meaning with all my attempts to show you the spiritual side of the physical prophesies. Some of you are saying, this sure seems physical to me - it says land and city and etc… I agree - the words of the prophecy are about physical things - and some will even have physical fulfillments. But the spirit of the prophecy is about spiritual things. Everything in the bible also has a spiritual meaning. Every verse of the bible has more than one meaning. This is why hermeneutics prevents understanding. Of course, others would say, no - this is why you are very confused, SK. Most words simply mean what they say. And therein lies the impasse. In the Hearing God thread, I gave you multiple examples of how God places spiritual truth within physical words. If people do not see the spiritual within the physical message. This is because they do not yet hear God in that way, so naturally, they say - it doesn't say that. What they should say is - I can't hear that. Most will tell you that this is saying unbelievers can't understand God. But believers who are discerning in the natural, also won't understand the things of the Spirit. We are all guilty of this at times. But some are guilty of it almost all the time. That is, if they even bother to read the scriptures in the first place. 1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
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Post by grandpaskitzo on Jan 8, 2018 21:21:17 GMT -6
We just got done studying Ezekiel 44 on Sunday, and wow we’re we excited and pumped after what we learned. That chapter is packed with promises and instructions. And I came to the same conclusion that you just laid out here about the two priesthood. One thing we didn’t quite get though, and I haven’t studied it yet, is the meaning of the trimming of the hair. Any insight to that? Also, what exactly is the fat and blood? I understand it has to do with the sacrifices, but what’s it mean for us? I’ll definitley study more, but in the meantime if you could provide context or guidance that’d be great. Keep it comin SK! I was actually thinking of posting a bunch of my notes on this chapter, as I’ve found it ties into some other studies I have on the church in Acts and the city wide uproars caused by the pouring out of the Holy Spirit. I title it Pentecost 2.0 Global Uproar, when the child is born!
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Post by witness1 on Jan 9, 2018 8:41:30 GMT -6
Lord, SK is on my heart this morning. Be mindful of your servant, Lord. As he is seeking to hear from you and walk with you and share his walk with others, please draw close to him. Please keep the joy of his salvation ever-present in his heart and mind. Put courage in his heart even as these days grow more and more difficult. Allow him rest when rest is needed and perseverance when perseverance is called for. Bind us all together in love as we seek your face together, and may we see some thin spaces where the veil between our reality and your kingdom isn't quite so heavy. May these thin spaces of fellowship with you encourage us in the days ahead. Bless SK today Lord with your presence in a profound way. In Jesus' name, Amen.
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Post by mike on Jan 9, 2018 9:14:59 GMT -6
Lord, SK is on my heart this morning. Be mindful of your servant, Lord. As he is seeking to hear from you and walk with you and share his walk with others, please draw close to him. Please keep the joy of his salvation ever-present in his heart and mind. Put courage in his heart even as these days grow more and more difficult. Allow him rest when rest is needed and perseverance when perseverance is called for. Bind us all together in love as we seek your face together, and may we see some thin spaces where the veil between our reality and your kingdom isn't quite so heavy. May these thin spaces of fellowship with you encourage us in the days ahead. Bless SK today Lord with your presence in a profound way. In Jesus' name, Amen. Amen
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 14:56:09 GMT -6
The Flock of Slaughter
Zechariah 11.
This passage is difficult. Like all these passages there are traditional teachings based on this passage and like other passages, mine will go a different direction. Part of the reason this passage is difficult is because it seems to display a God who is evil. A God who does not care about people. This perception comes from the difficulty we have coming to grips with the positive nature of God’s judgement.
Remember, the reason Judah was taken captive in the first place (God’s judgment) is because they did not submit to a lighter judgment. They could have been under the wooden yoke to correct their sinful behavior, but they, like so many of us, decided they did not want God’s judgment, and so they resisted the will of God. God saw their attempt to resist His judgment and placed an iron yoke on them instead.
So now we get to this passage. The people of Judah have come back from Babylon, but they are still not free. They are still under the authority of the beast kingdom - at this point, Media Persia, and Greece is right around the corner. Israel, as we have discussed is still missing. Remnants of Israel have found their way back to Judah, but the official bulk of the 10 northern tribes are still scattered to the four winds.
In comes Zechariah. The book written by him and perhaps others, records several words from the Lord, each several chapters long. But the one we are interested in starts in chapter 9 and ends with chapter 11. I will give you my interpretation of the spiritual meaning of this passage. Once again, Zechariah was writing about physical events - I am talking about spiritual events.
We are covering the last portion of this word from God. We will see that there is a speaker in this passage that switches back and forth between God and someone else - the someone else is not Zechariah. I am going to call that someone else the Shepherd. This will distinguish him from God and from the other shepherds.
We start with destruction of the areas around Lebanon, Bashan, and the Jordan Valley. But the destruction is spoken of in regard to the trees. These areas are primarily in the northern portion of the Holy Land - near Damascus. But also the valley continues south. The fire that stuck all these areas may have been caused by something much more massive further south - say, around Jerusalem.
Zec 11:1 Open thy doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour thy cedars. Zec 11:2 Howl, fir tree; for the cedar is fallen; because the mighty are spoiled: howl, O ye oaks of Bashan; for the forest of the vintage is come down. Zec 11:3 There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled: a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled.
The shepherds are howling. Why? Who are they? I see shepherds as spiritual leaders. They are howling because their glory is spoiled. Another translation says, their robe of honor was destroyed (YLT). Something they put their stock in, was destroyed and spoiled. Something they had been preaching about, bragging about, lifting up high - has come down.
After this destruction, God instructs the Shepherd to take care of the flock that is doomed to slaughter. Feed indicates care taking, but spiritually, it means teach the word.
Zec 11:4 Thus saith the LORD my God; Feed the flock of the slaughter;
Why are they doomed to slaughter?
Zec 11:5 Whose possessors slay them, and hold themselves not guilty: and they that sell them say, Blessed be the LORD; for I am rich: and their own shepherds pity them not. Zec 11:6 For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the LORD: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbour's hand, and into the hand of his king: and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them.
The possessors are the shepherds - the pastors, the rabbis, the imams who do not care for their sheep, but simply own them. Do this. Do that. They keep their flock in submission. Honor the elders, give your money, don’t hear God too much - just a little. Listen to the scholars and great men of God. Don’t use the wrong hermeneutic. Confess your sins to a priest. Say your prayers. Pray 5 times a day. Do your religion - whatever your church, temple, synagogue says it is.
We also see that these shepherds - these religions leaders - have become rich off their religion. The tithes from the flock. The book sales from the words that should be giving freely to all people, but instead, people making money off the sale of God’s word.
Mar 11:17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Then we also have the whole prosperity movement where our faith is supposed to make us prosperous. Well it makes the religious leaders rich, doesn’t it?
Zec 11:6 For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the LORD: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbour's hand, and into the hand of his king: and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them.
The shepherds are fallen and God is personally turning His back. So He appoints the Shepherd.
Zec 11:7 And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock.
The first stave is agreeableness, favor, beauty, delight. The second is a bond. Something that keeps together.
Zec 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
After the destruction of Jerusalem - the leaders of the three religions that have held her in honor will be cut off. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have all held this city as their robe of honor. When she is destroyed and the apostasy occurs. The shepherds will fall and a remnant Shepherd will be called to feed the flock that is doomed to slaughter.
Zec 11:9 Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another. Zec 11:10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. Zec 11:11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.
The beauty / desire / agreeableness that God once saw is broken! This is an everyone for himself situation. The plagues will be upon the flock. And when this happens we will all know that these religions have lost the favor of God.
And why? I remember, in 2014, a Christian Reverend(Clyde Lott) in the USA discovered he had raised a pure red heifer and was planning on donating this cow to Israel so that she could be used in the new temple. It turned out to have some white hairs, but he has been shipping stock to Israel since in the hope of producing the red heifer that will allow the temple instruments to be cleansed. He is working with rabbi Richman who makes this statement, “The God of Israel determined based on his wisdom that the ashes of the red heifer is the secret to restoring purity to the world.” Is that what you believe?
Lott and Richman have even set up a way so that Christians can support the process by “gifting” a cow to the Irsaeli based side of this operation. You might think this is an isolated incident or that I am making it up, but you can google it yourself. Efforts like this have been led by many evangelical Christian shepherds. They have donated money for the building of a temple and the start of sacrifices. They have contributed money toward bringing Jews to the "holy land" - even though many believe that many of these Jews will be killed during the "soon coming" wars. The vast majority of Christianity is either financially, or morally supporting the idea of building this temple. Even those Christians who don’t believe they support the temple are supportive of the idea of the temple because they see it as a sign that the end / rapture is near. Getting raptured is worth whatever price they must pay - even if it means providing a sacrificial animal to "stand in the place of" Christ.
How do you believe the Lord will feel when He comes for His people and finds them funding the replacement of the temple He tore down in 70 AD? When He finds His people declaring the physical temple - the Temple of God - when He has placed His temple with them? I assume He will feel much the same way when Judas kissed Him. Judas could have used any method - but He used something very sweet and intimate. Something only a friend could do. And now we kiss Christ every time we get excited about a third temple and every time we support or fund its building. Our spiritual response should be - horror at what will befall these people and horror at the idea of a temple sacrificing animals to "restore purity to the world." This is something we should be ashamed of - we should be praying our repentance and for the repentance of our brothers and sisters.
And so it is only natural that Zechariah continues with this:
Zec 11:12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. Zec 11:13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
Will we betray the Lord by choosing Hagar and earthly Jerusalem over spiritual Jerusalem - will we deny Him as King - will we deny that the temple is within us - will we raise up a temple made by man and a city made of stone? Or will we look to the New Jerusalem and the Heavenly Temple within us?
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Some will go in one direction and some will go in another direction - this will mainly be based on whether or not they are hearing God or following the traditions of man.
Zec 11:14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
We see, once again, the division between Judah and Israel - between two priesthoods, between two groups of believers.
We conclude with the last three verses, which I believe are God’s way of demonstrating to the Shepherd, who is playing the role now as a bad Shepherd, that God will allow this all to happen by allowing blind and crippled shepherds to shepherd the people. Shepherds that don’t care about their flock and are in it for the power, the money, the fame, etc. These shepherds are blind in that they do not see God correctly. They are crippled in that they cannot properly feed their sheep. Even the shepherds who truly love the Lord and love the flock are so deceived by the teachings they have learned that they cannot properly feed the flock.
Zec 11:15 And the LORD said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd. Zec 11:16 For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces. Zec 11:17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.
Luk 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch? Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
I know that many serve God and love God but are not in agreement with this thread. I am not, ever, questioning their sincerity before the Lord. I am saying, that even the most earnest servant can be misinformed. I also can be misinformed. If you have read this thread, you are now in a situation similar to if you have read the Restoration of All Things thread; now you have been shown. Now you are accountable to this understanding. What you do with it is between you and God. I firmly believe that people are called to different understandings and ministries.
My job is small - to issue the call. To provide guidance and to serve those who are called out. My job is not to convince or condemn. I must walk in the word of the Lord that I have heard. It is my only option. What is the Lord saying to you?
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Post by mike on Jan 9, 2018 21:39:42 GMT -6
SK your contributions are unique and honorable, always with grace and humility. Regardless of whether one is convinced or not you are right we now know. I have and continue to think this over and have a lot to process but one thing continues to come to mind. I have the "traditional" view of end times and now the Kingdom view which helps me recognize the situation around me daily is quite spiritual both good and evil. If the traditional is "wrong" and the Kingdom accurate I am aware and preparing my heart. Whether the Kingdom view is "wrong" and the traditional accurate I am aware and preparing my heart.
The battle is real and has been intensifying in my personal life daily. Pray for one another that whatever tomorrow holds we are looking for HIM!
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jan 9, 2018 21:53:32 GMT -6
It kinda raised my heart rate in fear..and then about made me cry, if I had not been distracted by the things around me in the room as i read. One almost wants to avoid all teachings of end times to any new believer. Is it still wrong though, to believe that when we say, God is going to deal with Israel" that in a way this statement is "true" but not the way we have been taught these past few decades? Israel (modern physical nation) has become "an idol" in some respects?
BTW, a band of sheep is typically made up of 1000 sheep. Many ran 5 to 10 bands of sheep here in our valley before the cattle came.
There have been a few verses brought to my attention: Romans Ch.11 namely. Reminding about what would drive the jews to jelousy? A rapture...is the common anser. God has to remove His Chruch in order to deal with Isarel. Well, from what you are saying he is also having to deal with many a lost lamb..
Rom 11:28From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
What is verse 31 saying?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 9:50:11 GMT -6
Provoke to Jealousy(Note: To understand where I am coming from in this post, you will need to have read the Restoration of All Things thread) I feel compelled to add something - some may read this Kingdom thread and conclude, "SK must hate the Jews." I hope that none are thinking this, but one never knows. I do not hate the Jews - nor do I love them more or less than any other unbeliever. My God will save all of Israel, all of Judah, all of the Gentiles. barbiosheepgirl asks in her recent post: God is absolutely going to deal with the sin of Israel - God has already covered their sin and will remove it with His second work. Just as He promises over and over. He is going to do this for everyone. The promises will come to be. barbiosheepgirl also asks the meaning of Rom 11:31: Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Heb 11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, Heb 11:34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Mat 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
God loves Israel - both spiritual and physical Israel. God loves the whole world. He hid physical Israel just as He has kept hidden the sons of God. This is the treasure in the field. But to have a legal right to them - He sells all that He has - He gives everything on the Cross - and buys the whole field - which is the world and all its people. To keep something hidden, sometimes it is necessary for that hidden people to be blind. Otherwise, they will claim their name, their rights, etc. So Israel was blinded and hidden among the nations. Because of being blinded and their resultant unbelief, the whole field was purchased and opened up the promises to the gentiles (Rom 11:30). Verse 31 has two meanings: 1) having bought the field (gentiles having received mercy), now they (Israel - who are within the field) have also received mercy. By saving the world, Jesus also saves those that were hidden so that He would save the world. They are now under the same conditions as the rest of the world. 2) is more mysterious - we will judge the world: 1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?Mat 18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. Mat 18:24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. Mat 18:25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. Mat 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Mat 18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. Mat 18:28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. Mat 18:29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Mat 18:30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. Mat 18:31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
The king is Jesus. The servant owing 10,000 talents are gentiles. The king forgives their debt. The fellowservants are Israel. Please notice the pattern: Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Matt 18 provides a general teaching about forgiveness. But it also is connected intimately with the Kingdom and with Daniel's 70 weeks and with the Jews and Israelites who have been blinded - the fellowservant to us gentiles. What inspired Jesus to tell this parable? The verses just before this passage: Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your city. Each year, on the Day of Atonement, another forgiveness granted. But the end of that 490 was soon upon Judah and we see that they failed to bring in the kingdom, the 70 weeks ended. The kingdom was not manifested on earth. Now, judgement would be placed in the hands of the saints. Who will judge the world centuries later. Will they have mercy on their fellowservant? Or will they not? Mercy must be within the confines of proper judgment. Mercy does not simply release one from guilt. Mercy is granted to the heart that is repentant. And all Israel will repent - not just the few hundred thousand that see Jesus when He appears. Once again, Christians, we set our vision so low. We think God will only save a small number while placing the rest under endless torment. And we think only the few that see Jesus in a supposed future "tribulation" will fall on their knees and repent - all the other Jews missing out on salvation because they were not present, or had already died, possibly centuries earlier. No, my brother and sisters, we must set our vision much higher because our God is much higher than we dare to believe. He will save ALL mankind, and ALL Israel will be saved. All Israel will be provoked to jealousy, not by a rapture. They were never expecting a rapture - but they were expecting to bring in the Kingdom. That was their primary task. And so a kingdom that was given to another people who are bearing the fruit thereof. That would make them jealous. Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
When the kingdom has become manifest and the fruit being displayed, All Israel and Judah will look upon the kingdom and say, "That could have been us. We had it right there in our fingers. But it was taken from us and given to those that we call 'dogs.' And look at it! It is beautiful. Oh God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob - forgive us. We are not worthy to be called your son, but surely we can still be servants in your household." And Jesus will look upon these, His chosen people, and say, Luk 15:22 ..... Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: Luk 15:23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: Luk 15:24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. .....
And, Standing as Joseph before his brethren - the sons of Israel (Jacob) we will once again see this play out, speaking of the betrayal in 33 AD: Gen 50:19 ... Fear not: for am I in the place of God? [YES!] Gen 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive. Gen 50:21 Now therefore fear ye not: I will nourish you, and your little ones. And he comforted them, and spake kindly unto them.
And we will judge them and they will receive mercy - because we received mercy - because without us they cannot be made perfect - because we have all had our moments in unbelief - So: Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Amen! Praise the Father and His beautiful plan. Praise the Saviour and Love and Mercy. Praise the Almighty and Creator - that He loves even us. Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 15:52:27 GMT -6
This might require a new thread, but I am curious about the 7 year trib verses 3.5 years.. based on a renewed understanding of Matt 24, OR, what about Matt 24 in General? babs, I have not forgotten about you. I'll address this at some point, hopefully not too long from now. SK
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 15:54:26 GMT -6
1. After reading Ezekiel 44 I definitely want to understand more. I’m starting to see it a lot clearer than before, if ever, and it has some really cool instructions for us. Please do tell more. 2. I’m totally lost on Zechariah 11. So that would be great if you could enlighten us. 3. Idk if this has been discussed in detail, but I assume it will be apart of our daily role here and to come, as well as teaching others, but how do we go about doing just that...teaching others who are so blinded to the truth, or yet those who don’t even care to hear or see? And what about those who claim to be Christ followers yet want nothing to do with admonishing or teaching? (Recently lost a friend because he wants to live a worldly life and not hear the truth, even when in love. I’ve lost all my friends except one close one because of the lack of love for truth.) grandpaskitzo, I'll add point 3 to the list.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 15:59:13 GMT -6
We just got done studying Ezekiel 44 on Sunday, and wow we’re we excited and pumped after what we learned. That chapter is packed with promises and instructions. And I came to the same conclusion that you just laid out here about the two priesthood. One thing we didn’t quite get though, and I haven’t studied it yet, is the meaning of the trimming of the hair. Any insight to that? Also, what exactly is the fat and blood? I understand it has to do with the sacrifices, but what’s it mean for us? I’ll definitley study more, but in the meantime if you could provide context or guidance that’d be great. Keep it comin SK! I was actually thinking of posting a bunch of my notes on this chapter, as I’ve found it ties into some other studies I have on the church in Acts and the city wide uproars caused by the pouring out of the Holy Spirit. I title it Pentecost 2.0 Global Uproar, when the child is born! gpk - perhaps God can give you some revelation in this area of the rest of Ezekiel 44. I will also hold it up to the Lord when I get an opportunity. I have not done so to date.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 16:01:56 GMT -6
Lord, SK is on my heart this morning. Be mindful of your servant, Lord. As he is seeking to hear from you and walk with you and share his walk with others, please draw close to him. Please keep the joy of his salvation ever-present in his heart and mind. Put courage in his heart even as these days grow more and more difficult. Allow him rest when rest is needed and perseverance when perseverance is called for. Bind us all together in love as we seek your face together, and may we see some thin spaces where the veil between our reality and your kingdom isn't quite so heavy. May these thin spaces of fellowship with you encourage us in the days ahead. Bless SK today Lord with your presence in a profound way. In Jesus' name, Amen. witness1 - you have no idea how timely this prayer was for me. Thank you!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 16:04:56 GMT -6
Lord, SK is on my heart this morning. Be mindful of your servant, Lord. As he is seeking to hear from you and walk with you and share his walk with others, please draw close to him. Please keep the joy of his salvation ever-present in his heart and mind. Put courage in his heart even as these days grow more and more difficult. Allow him rest when rest is needed and perseverance when perseverance is called for. Bind us all together in love as we seek your face together, and may we see some thin spaces where the veil between our reality and your kingdom isn't quite so heavy. May these thin spaces of fellowship with you encourage us in the days ahead. Bless SK today Lord with your presence in a profound way. In Jesus' name, Amen. Amen mike, I had just said, "Father, I need someone to confirm witness1 's prayer. " Then you said "Amen." Love you all.
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