The Kingdom of God

I think (SK correct me if I have misunderstood ) that what is happening now is "the anti christ." The act of completely rejecting him(Jesus) and still doing the sacrifices. Maybe even more so that they think doing the sacrifices will usher him in. It is the abomination of desolation. It's like saying Jesus dying on the cross isn't good enough, what we (humans) are doing is better by offering animal sacrifices. I would imagine that honesty makes God want to vomit.

Although I am also wondering about the image of the beast, two witnesses and that sort of thing.

I have seen the difference between the gospel of salvation and the gospel of the Kingdom for years, it is a main focus of my website.

So many churches and ministries birth people into salvation, but do not disciple them and raise them to be sons of God.

The time of the rapture is soon, and people need to be prepared. Being saved is not enough. I am seeing debates among Watchmen, particularly discussed in a recent watchman's video how he discusses repentance is important and salvation can be lost.

The big fight between Once Saved and Always Saved vs salvation can be lost at the drop of a hat is wrong. It's in the middle.

Salvation can be lost but is extremely difficult, and I discuss it in-depth here:

www.gospel-kingdom.com/pb/wp_a709cd08/wp_a709cd08.html

But the point I which to address more specifically is the notion being discussed in this recent video that people will be cast out. The saved are not cast into hell or the Lake of Fire, as I discuss again above about the loss of salvation (although some might be, but very few) but Jesus discusses this in scripture:

Luke 14: NKJV
34 "Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned?
35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!"

They are not fit for the land which is the Kingdom, nor are they fit for the dunghill which is Hell or the Lake of Fire, so they are cast out. Out where? They are thrown into the Outer Court. Outside New Jerusalem. Who else are the victorious going to rule over through eternity?

Jesus also describes the types of people who fall into this category:

Math 13: NKJV
20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

This represents many many saved believers. At some point in their life, they accepted the truth of Jesus as dying for their sins. It may have been as a child, in Sunday School, or older in church, or even at an evangelical crusade. But they never fed the truth or accepted any teachings to allow the seed to produce any fruit. These "believers" or "christians" are pretty much fruitless, the only thing separating them from the unbelievers is that they believed and a plant began to grow, but it died, before bearing any fruit. But they retain the incorruptible seed of Christ.

One of the best ways I have found to describe the difference, is like the difference between a baby in the womb vs a baby which is born. And so I describe in much more detail these kind of people here:

gospel-kingdom.com/pb/wp_27c28d9e/wp_27c28d9e.html

I was such a believer once. Somewhere about the age of 8 years old, I believed in the work of Jesus. I went to a Lutheran church which taught me a lot of the Bible, but I was given no teachings that helped my faith grow. Or I failed to see them. Eventually, my faith became bankrupt as a teenager.

This kind of believer is full of carnality. I had scripture, and so many of these may have scripture too, but it will be taken from them, including any false doctrines, which killed their faith, many of which may be teachings from Jezebel. But these folk probably have a lack of teaching which encourages sin, rather than bad teaching that allows sin. These kind of christians will most likely not be raptured at the rapture. Again Jesus said:

Luke 14: NKJV
35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!"

Thus they still are saved from Hell and the Lake of Fire:

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

But are still out of something, out of what? Out of the Kingdom, and most likely out of the rapture.

So thus, why the gospel of the Kingdom must be preached, to prepare those who are not ready. Time for the virgins to get that extra oil before the door closes!

Daniel’s 70 Weeks

In one sense, even if you end up disagreeing with this post, it does not negate the rest of this thread. But, Daniel’s 70 weeks are connected to the kingdom concept and correctly determining these 70 weeks can also shape our perspective on the kingdom, modern Israel, and the tribulation period.

There are many ways to interpret this passage and we have seen teachers teach a variety of interpretations. There is a dominant teaching however, that one could say is the majority view of modern prophecy students. I will describe that view and then I will provide you with an alternative view that you can consider. I’ll explain how the alternative view can drastically change our perspective of timing, purpose, and identification of the various groups at play in todays world.

Let’s us start with the passage in question:

Dan 9:24  "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
Dan 9:25  "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.
Dan 9:26  "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27  "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

The dominant understanding is something like this:
A week is considered to be 7 years and since there are 70 of them - this equals 490 years. A gap is placed between the 69th week and the 70th week. The “he” in verse 27 is applied to the word “prince” of verse 26. The “one who makes desolate” in verse 27 is also assumed to be the same “he.” A variant is that the “he” of 27 is a totally new he and is only synced with the “one” in 27.

With this understanding, the interpretation is this:
The 69 weeks have occurred and the 70th week is yet to occur. It will be the 7 years of tribulation. The “he” is the antichrist who will make a peace treaty with Israel and then halfway through the 7 weeks he will break the treaty and stop the sacrifices in a newly built Third temple. The whole point of this 70th week is to deal with Israel after the Christian church as been removed by the rapture.


Thoughts on the dominant interpretation:
I hope as you read this can see many flaws in this interpretation. The same people who teach and believe these things are the ones who regularly tell others not to read into scripture meanings that are not present in the words themselves. They call this eisegesis. And yet, there are several things that are simply not stated in this passage that are built into the majority teaching on this passage.  I guess you can only use eisegesis if you agree with the majority opinion.

1. A gap. There is no indication of a gap. The best we could say is that the 70 weeks is divided into three sections 7 + 62 + 1.
2. There is no mention of a peace treaty. There is a confirmation (or strengthening) of a covenant.
3. There is no mention of Israel - The covenant is confirmed with “the many.”
4. The “he” in verse 27 could apply to Messiah in verse 25 and 26, or prince in verse26.
5. There is no mention of an AntiChrist. Or a tribulation. But there is mention of one making desolate and a destruction and war
6. How does 7 years of tribulation for people alive today in anyway deal with all of Israel/Judah that lived and died over the last 2000 years?
7. For those placing a gap between verse 26 and 27, then how could the “he” in 27 refer back to the “prince” in verse 26 considering there would be about 2000 years between them - unless the he is non human.

To be a bit fair, we can draw conclusions from one passage based on information from other passages. So one could possibly conclude that the “one who makes desolate” is the same figure described in other passages. And therefore conclude that he is the man of lawlessness.  One could then really reach and call that person the AntiChrist. But that takes several leaps / assumptions which are rarely studied or admitted to.

Now - let’s look at this passage in a new way.

First of all, let’s not insert gaps. A natural reading of the passage does not speak of gaps.

Second, the phrase, “the people of the prince who is to come” has the people as the subject - not the prince. Therefore any pronoun that follows would most likely refer to the subject. However, the pronoun “he” is singular and not plural and so cannot refer to “people” and therefore, the most natural reading would refer back to the most recent singular subject. In this case, we find that this would be Messiah from verse 26. Of course, we would not want to depend on grammar alone for this conclusion - but we should still apply grammar correctly.

But, because we also have clearer understandings of the ways of God, this also makes the passage meaningful to us. And so both grammar and the message line up. I’ll get to the message in a little bit. We will also see that history lines up.

Third, we will not assume a peace treaty, nor will we assume Israel as the partner of the covenant - since neither are in the passage. We will let the words stand as they are.

Fourth, we will study history via scripture and other documents to determine events and see where these 490 years line up. We are fine with accepting the “sevens” to be 7 years each.

Fifth, we will offer an alternative interpretation of the whole point of this passage.

Let’s start with point 5.

The majority opinion often discounts completely the stated point of the 490 years. What does Gabriel tell Daniel is the point of the 70 weeks?

Dan 9:24  "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

Although this part is often ignore, let’s take a look at it. The entire point of the next few verses is this verse. The majority opinion, if it bothers to consider these verses at all, interpret them as if they are completed at the end of the 70 years. In other words, they see Gabriel as saying, these things will happen at the end of the 490 years. But now, let’s consider the rest of the majority opinion - after the 7 years, there will be a 1000 reign of Christ on earth and during that time there will still be sinners on earth and an eventual attack from Satan, a final resurrection, a judgement and a bunch of people burning in Hell forever.

So if verses 24 is to be fulfilled by the end of the 70th week. Then we should see a scenario where after the 70th week:

to finish the transgression - there should be no more breaking of the law,
to make an end of sin - there should be no more sin,
to make atonement for iniquity - inquiry should be atoned for,
to bring in everlasting righteousness - all should be righteous,
to seal up vision and prophecy - there will be no more need for God to speak to or through his people,
to anoint the most holy place - the most holy will be anointed

Now, does the majority opinion ever consider that these things will not all have happened after their 70th week? Their view of the 70th week as the tribulation should have the tribulation ending with all these issues resolved.  But they aren't even close to being resolved.  These is still a satanic war after the 1000 years. There are still people who are not righteous at the time of the judgment. There is still sin according to Rev 22:15 - long after the 70th week are over.

Rev 22:15  Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

So, the whole point of the 490 years - with or without gaps - will not have been accomplished after the 70th week as interpreted by the majority opinion. So, while focusing on the “end times” elements of the 70 weeks the majority opinion has forgotten all about the fact that their understanding doesn’t even accomplish the very point that they claim the 490 years are supposed to accomplish.

Once again - even if you don’t agree with my assessment - you should realize that the majority opinion has a major flaw.

It is at least 1000 years later before any of that is accomplished and even then, it is not accomplished. Especially in light of the fact that many believe that sinners will continue to burn in Hell forever afterward - meaning that everlasting righteousness has not been brought in - nor will it ever.

Kingdom View
But perhaps there is a different way of reading verse 24. Take what you have learned now about the kingdom and apply it to this verse. What was the mandate? To manifest the kingdom on earth - and the final result of the kingdom on earth will be exactly as described in verse 24:

No more law breaking
No more sin
Atonement completed
Everlasting Righteousness for all
No more need for vision or prophecy because all will know in full
The most holy will be anointed

Gabriel wasn’t telling Daniel what would happen at the end of 490 years. He was telling Daniel that the Judah had 490 years left to manifest the kingdom before Judah would be judged as having failed. It was a countdown.  Basically, Gabriel was saying, You are going to be given another chance to bring in the kingdom - another 10 Jubilees. 490 years.

Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city. To accomplish the following …… (stated above):

And, as I will show, those 70 weeks lined up exactly with the death of Jesus and His resurrection. All Judah needed to do was accept their King and the kingdom would have manifested - but they not only denied their king. They killed Him!


Remember this passage?:
Mat 18:21  Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
Mat 18:22  Jesus *said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.

What is so special about forgiving 490 times? Also, why not say 490 times? Why say 70 times 7 times? What about 491 times? Was Jesus really saying we should forgive 490 times but 491 was not required?

Preachers will tell you this means to forgive endlessly - but that is not what it says is it? It says, 490 times. Jesus could have said, keep forgiving. Or forgive forever - but He was trying to make a point. A point that everyone standing there who had studied scripture would understand. Every year at the Day of Atonement, the nation would be forgiven. But only 490 times from the time Gabriel identified. Then it would be too late for Judah and their chance to manifest the kingdom on earth would come to an end.

Have doubts? Immediately after saying this, Jesus gives us one of His many Kingdom parables:

Mat 18:23  "For this reason the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his slaves.
Mat 18:24  "When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him.
Mat 18:25  "But since he did not have the means to repay, his lord commanded him to be sold, along with his wife and children and all that he had, and repayment to be made.
Mat 18:26  "So the slave fell to the ground and prostrated himself before him, saying, 'Have patience with me and I will repay you everything.'
Mat 18:27  "And the lord of that slave felt compassion and released him and forgave him the debt.
Mat 18:28  "But that slave went out and found one of his fellow slaves who owed him a hundred denarii; and he seized him and began to choke him, saying, 'Pay back what you owe.'
Mat 18:29  "So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, 'Have patience with me and I will repay you.'
Mat 18:30  "But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed.
Mat 18:31  "So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened.
Mat 18:32  "Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, 'You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.
Mat 18:33  'Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'
Mat 18:34  "And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers[jailers] until he should repay all that was owed him.
Mat 18:35  "My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart."


Sure, Jesus was teaching, on the surface, about forgiveness. But He was also telling everyone with ears to hear - the 490 years were almost up.

Now - let us take a look at the 490 years specifically.
Gabriel says they will start with “the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem.” There are a few contending decrees. Because we believe that Messiah the prince is Jesus, with either theory, the timeframes for the beginning of the 490 years must end within the life of Christ. If we want to insist on a gap theory, then the 69th week must be during Christ’s life, if we don’t insert a gap then the 70th week must end within Christ’s life. So Cyrus’ decree of 534 BC is too early. There was a decree of Artaxerses in 458 BC - which just happens to be exactly 490 years prior to 33 AD. This decree is mentioned and given in Ezra 7.

I can offer more proof that this is a valid date, but let’s continue for now as most would find it a bit boring and this post is already long.

Dan 9:25  "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

We see that there will be 7 weeks - this is a jubilee period.
We then have 9 more jubilees for a total of 10 jubilees.

The last week has the most detail. This would be the timeframe from 26 AD to 33 AD.

For those that have been following some of my posts - you may be familiar with my understanding of the time of Christ’s death. I recognize that there are many opinions. But I also believe that God directly revealed the time of His death to me. When this happened, it didn’t matter to me when Jesus died and I was not trying to fit any pattern. I had not previously studied the date of His death and had no preconceived ideas. Then He revealed it to me. If you would like to read that story you can find it here.

The point is - I know that Jesus died at 3:01:00 pm April 3, 33 AD.

In the midst of the week —

Dan 9:27  "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

Just after Jesus turned 30, He presented himself to be baptized. I believe this happened on the Day of Atonement. There is an entire study I could present on the significance of this particular Day of Atonement and how Jesus was fulfilling the prophetic symbols of the day of atonement during His baptism and following temptation in the wilderness. The point would be that this would be the middle of the week that started in 26 AD and ended in 33 AD.  There is also external "evidence" of events that took place in the temple from this day forward.  They are interesting, but I don't put a lot of stock in them because they cannot be verified.  But the record shows that they started the day of Jesus' baptism in the midst of Daniel's 70th week.

At this point, Jesus symbolized His death and resurrection. It was His portrayal of being cut off and at the same time it was witnessed and confirmed by the Father in Heaven.

Mar 1:11  and a voice came out of the heavens: "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."

Shortly afterward, Jesus started his 3.5 year ministry with this comment:

Mar 1:14  … Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,
Mar 1:15  and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel[of the kingdom]."

Keep in mind, the point of Gabriel was for Daniel's people and city to manifest the kingdom!

Jesus confirmed a covenant made long ago by dying on the cross and thus confirming the convent he had made with the inhabitants of the earth. The many here, as we have illustrated before - means all. See Romans 5:16-19. Also, see our restoration thread for more on this.

Jesus was crucified 490 years and 2 days after Ezra started his journey to begin the rebuilding of Jerusalem.

When Judah, and Jerusalem - Daniel's people and city - denied Christ as King, they set in motion their own desolation that would happen 37 years later - at the hand of the prince of the people that would come - Prince Titus of the Romans. The war that destroyed the city and temple occurred from 66 AD to 73 AD - 40 years after the 70th week, which was, 26 AD to 33 AD.

And Jesus told us it would happen:

Luk 19:41  When He approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it,
Luk 19:42  saying, "If you had known in this day, even you, the things which make for peace! But now they have been hidden from your eyes.
Luk 19:43  "For the days will come upon you when your enemies will throw up a barricade against you, and surround you and hem you in on every side,
Luk 19:44  and they will level you to the ground and your children within you, and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation."

The time of their visitation is the time that Gabriel told them, the Messiah would come. 



There is an alternative interpretation of this scripture. This is the real short version of this concept. If people have concerns in certain areas, I can provide more support if desired.  Notice though, how this message has taken the passage completely in mind - and fulfills the passage without making the assumptions and additions that are necessary to support the majority opinion.  

My last 2 posts have noting to do with unbelievers. The thread title is The Kingdom of God, and your last post discussed how the gospel of the Kingdom needs to be preached before the rapture. I agree, and have done so.

BTW, 2 of my 3 posts have gotten likes.

God Bless.

Maybe just speaking for myself, but I do not always like a post because I necessarily like or favor it, a lot of times I do it so I know that I have read it and don't waste time reading it again. Maybe others do that as well...

Ok. Thanks domagb. There are some very core differences between what you are presenting from what I present. And there are some similarities. But for now, I think I'll just let others make there own determinations. Thanks again. 

Quick comment about the 70 weeks. I forgot to mention that like many prophecies, there may be multiple fulfillments. And those could be a repetition of 490 years, of they could be an expansion of the scope. My point was only to cover the initial fulfillment.