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Post by rt on Jun 7, 2017 14:08:38 GMT -6
Yes! Have you/Are you going to put it all into one pdf when you're done, that we may peruse it at our leisure in one place? I'm sure that we can cut/paste, but I'm betting you made some edits along the way after they were posted the first time(?) Actually I wrote a complete study on the book of Revelation which I do have in a PDF format. The information on this thread is included in it along with much more. If Gary is interested I would not be opposed to him posting it on the site. It is rather long (266 pages) though and I am not sure if he would want my study to overshadow the work he is doing here. I am not the most computer savvy person on the block, so if there is a way to post it somewhere else and link to it here, someone would have to talk me through it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 14:14:33 GMT -6
A thread called RT's view of the rapture doesn't sound off target to me. You might have some people who oppose it and want to dialogue. But you wouldn't have to answer if you didn't want to - so I don't know that it's a problematic.maybe you could put "- commentary only" after the title???
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 14:18:46 GMT -6
I would LOVE that! Please get it on here; that would be great. To truthseeker, I would like to counter with this: God really likes symmetry and completion. 4 judgements in the first half, and 11 in the second feels off... plus, then the last trumpet introduces the bowls as the third woe. Much more satisfying.
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Post by kjs on Jun 7, 2017 14:24:24 GMT -6
It's at the beginning of the thread, all4himtim. Hey, rt, I wanted to apologize. When I saw the summary of the interpretation, my brain went, "Alert! Unholy mix of preterism and futurism!" But it actually makes sense. The main thing holding me off was the fact that the fourth horseman seemed to kill 25% of the population... until I looked at the original Greek using Lumina. Turns out the word always means land, not population! (I also like the symmetry: 7 trumpet judgements in the first 3.5 years, 7 bowl in the last 3.5). I have some small edits, but I like it! Now I have two theories: the traditional pre trib, and this one! apokteinó or apoktennó: to kill Sorry not following you here .... 25% of the population are too be killed.... then it lists the "type of killing" 1) rhomphaia: a sword 2) limos: hunger, famine 3) thanatos: death (which is confusing since it you "killing" are you causing death?) 4) thérion: a wild beast The Fourth horseman has the power to "KILL" tetartos: fourth (a quarter of the whole) gé: region, country, inhabitants of a region. If the fourth horseman was only "killing the land" rather than it's inhabitants -- -- please explain how "land" can be killed with SWORD / HUNGER or wild beast |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 14:33:28 GMT -6
The verse says:
And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.
Revelation 6:8
He was given authority over 1/4 of the land (that's what the Greek word translated earth means), to kill its inhabitants with the sword, famine, disease, and wild beasts. There you go.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 14:38:43 GMT -6
I would LOVE that! Please get it on here; that would be great. To truthseeker, I would like to counter with this: God really likes symmetry and completion. 4 judgements in the first half, and 11 in the second feels off... plus, then the last trumpet introduces the bowls as the third woe. Much more satisfying. Symmetry is one thing, meanings of numbers are another thing. For instance, 4 means "of the earth" so I can definitely see judgment rendered using man to do it (during the first 3 1/2 years). I can also see 3 belonging to the Trinity and possible judgment on the world with God at the helm and man no longer being used to administer the judgment(The second 3 1/2 years). I also have to remember that the vials/bowls are not 'outside' of the trumpets but inside 7th trumpet. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 14:57:51 GMT -6
It's at the beginning of the thread, all4himtim. Hey, rt, I wanted to apologize. When I saw the summary of the interpretation, my brain went, "Alert! Unholy mix of preterism and futurism!" But it actually makes sense. The main thing holding me off was the fact that the fourth horseman seemed to kill 25% of the population... until I looked at the original Greek using Lumina. Turns out the word always means land, not population! (I also like the symmetry: 7 trumpet judgements in the first 3.5 years, 7 bowl in the last 3.5). I have some small edits, but I like it! Now I have two theories: the traditional pre trib, and this one! Sorry, I must have missed that. I'll take a look...thank you Beloved! |
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Post by rt on Jun 7, 2017 14:57:57 GMT -6
I believe the fifth Trump forward is the last 3.5 years. I say this because look at what is said at the end of the telling of the fourth Trumpet...."woe" to what is coming next. I see "woes" as part of the Great tribulation. Like RT, I could be wrong, I'm not the final say. This is just as I see it. I answer this in my post above. However I guess I can understand in a sense the idea that the effects of theses trumpets will certainly bring great tribulation upon those who suffer from them. I think their initial sounding happens before the midpoint, but their effects carry forth into the second half, which one could say is part of the great tribulation. So the fifth trumpet sounds and the pit is opened to release the locusts that sting men, bringing great pain for five months. This five months may carry over into the second half of the 70th week. The sixth trumpet sounds and the angels are released, these angels will gather an army who will go on to kill 1/3 of mankind. Again the effects will most certainly carry over into the second half of the week. The Seventh trumpet sounds and Satan is cast down to earth, the dragon goes after the children of the woman and the antichrist is given 42 months to act. Again the trumpet sounds before the second half of the week starts, but it's effects also carry over into the second half. So I guess I can agree with you that the woes are associated with events that happen during the second half of the 70th week. |
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Post by rt on Jun 7, 2017 15:02:34 GMT -6
I would LOVE that! Please get it on here; that would be great. To truthseeker, I would like to counter with this: God really likes symmetry and completion. 4 judgements in the first half, and 11 in the second feels off... plus, then the last trumpet introduces the bowls as the third woe. Much more satisfying. I will leave it to Gary, if he wants to he can message me. If not I am perfectly okay with that. |
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Post by watchmanjim on Jun 7, 2017 16:08:43 GMT -6
I know the passages are surely all connected, truthseeker, and you may very well be right about these all being the same. I believe Zechariah had a scroll, also.
To me it is significant that Daniel is the 27th book of the OT and Revelation is the 27th book of the NT. The two go together like hand and glove. Chapter 12 of Daniel gives us insight for Chapter 12 of Revelation.
Revelation 10 and Daniel 12 also definitely jive, as you have shown.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 16:11:18 GMT -6
I didn't know that Jim! VERY interesting! Thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 12:17:14 GMT -6
rt,
I'm going back over your notes VERY slowly and digesting it. Back on page 2 you posted...
Revelation 5:9–10
9And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. 10“You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”
I just realized...... the song of the old covenant was the song of Moses- Deuteronomy 32; AS PAGAN GENTILES, WE NEVER HAD AN OLD SONG! - IT IS OF THE NEW COVENANT AND it WOULD BE a NEW song for the Jews! so going back to check.... Exodus 15:1-18 and Deuteronomy 32 is the 'old' song....Rev. 5:9-10 is the NEW song.
You all probably have already had that 'click'. I was slow to catch... Confirmation of timing and progam!
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Post by rt on Jun 16, 2017 8:49:02 GMT -6
Just want to take a minute and go over the sealing of the 144,000 and discuss the time frame in which this happens.
We can see from the following passage that the four angels are told not to harm the earth, sea or tree until the (144,000) bond- servants of God are sealed:
And we know that later the first four trumpets sound, after the "about a half hour" of silence takes place in heaven.
The four angels who were granted to harm the earth, sea and trees have now done there job, signifying that the 144,000 had been sealed. The sealing takes place during the "about a half hour" of silence in heaven, which is IMO the first half of the 70th week.
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paul
Layman
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son...
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Post by paul on Jun 16, 2017 14:35:21 GMT -6
The "church age" may come to a close, or the age of the gentiles, but God's grace has no limit and no end. There is interesting analysts of 7 seals by RT and I was reading quietly :-) But I couldn't stay quiet when I read the sentence about God's grace having no limit and no end. It was definitely spoken by the Spirit and the "oily" AMEN to that! :-D I also want to add about the tribes of Dan and Ephraim. I believe that they are missing from 144,000, because they are going to be raptured by the grace of God. Jacob said of Ephraim, that he will become multitude of Gentiles. That's how all the Gentiles have been crafted in to the olive tree. As for the tribe of Dan, Jacob prophesied that he will judge his people. Paul said to Corinthians that believers will judge angels and Jesus said to Peter that they will judge 12 tribes. So Dan judging his people means that this tribe is the part of the church. Someone mentioned in this thread that Dan and Ephraim were two wickedest tribes of Israel. Paul wrote: "Where sin abounds grace super-abounds", and as Jesus said: "...the last will be first." Praise and dominion and glory be to Him who redeemed us by His precious blood, forever and ever. Amen! :-) |
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Post by whatif on Jun 16, 2017 14:49:39 GMT -6
Welcome to the forum, paul! It's a pleasure to meet you!
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