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Post by davewatchman on Dec 16, 2018 10:53:06 GMT -6
davewatchman, re: "I'm a Good Friday guy though." How do you account for the lack of a third night? It looks like the cat has got my tongue. Or i tried to explain it before but it wouldn't work. It's because i am so sure of the specific day when Jesus ate the Passover with the disciples in the upper room, that understanding forces another deeper interpretation of the textual script. I believe that Jesus was the God of the Old Testament, so He definitely knew the correct specifications of when to eat the Passover which was at conjunction on Thursday in AD30. The Jews, on the other hand, were using an erroneous calendar and in a rush to eat their Passover on the day after, the wrong day of Friday. I believe also that Jesus had previously provided the definition of the "heart of the earth" as being more than just the tomb itself. Three days and three nights culminates on the "third" day. There's several cases where Jesus describes this sequence in the Gospels that ends with this "third" day, but also includes His capture, His being betrayed to the chief priests and scribes, His mock trial, being delivered to the gentiles, His scourging, the Crucifixion AND His time in the tomb. Take a look at all the "third day" examples from the Gospels, especially Matthew 20:18. They all include the whole sequence of events that began with His capture on Thursday night. Even in Luke the sequence includes Him to "suffer", and then rise on the "third' day.. The countdown began at the hour He was betrayed and was captured and delivered into the hands of sinful man and all of his suffering and His Cruxifiction and then his time in the grave. "From that time forth began Jesus to show unto His disciples, how that He must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day." - Matthew 16:21
"Jesus said unto them, the Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of man; and they shall kill Him, and the third day He shall be raised again." - Matthew 17:22
"Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn Him to death, and shall deliver Him to the Gentiles, to mock and to scourge, and to crucify Him, and the third day He shall rise again." - Matthew 20:18
"Son of man must suffer many things and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again." - Mark 8:31
"For He taught His disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill Him, and after that He is killed, He shall rise the third day." - Mark 9:31
"and they shall mock Him, and shall scourge Him, and shall spit upon Him, and shall kill Him, and the third day He shall rise again." - Mark 10:34
"Saying, the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day." - Luke 9:22
"Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished, for He shall be delivered unto the Gentiles and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on, and they shall scourge Him, and put Him to death, and the third day He shall rise again." - Luke 18:31
"The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of men, crucified, and the third day rise again." - Luke 24:7
"And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered Him to be condemned to death, and have crucified Him. But we trusted that it had to be He which should have redeemed Israel, and besides all this, today is the third day since these things (plural) were done." - Luke 24:20
"And said unto them, thus it is written and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day." - Luke 24:46
And the evening and the morning were the first day. Thursday night. Friday night. Saturday night. Here's a couple of good notes on it when you get the chance: www.renewamerica.com/columns/shroder/130328mikeratliff.wordpress.com/2008/03/21/three-days-and-nights-in-the-heart-of-the-earth/ |
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Post by rstrats on Dec 16, 2018 12:21:43 GMT -6
davewatchman,
re: "I believe also that Jesus had previously provided the definition of the "heart of the earth" as being more than just the tomb itself."
OK, no need to go any further. This topic is really directed to those who think the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb. Your comments deal with issues for a different topic. Maybe you could start one.
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Post by mike on Dec 16, 2018 12:50:41 GMT -6
Interested Dave
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Post by davewatchman on Dec 16, 2018 14:28:09 GMT -6
davewatchman, re: "I believe also that Jesus had previously provided the definition of the "heart of the earth" as being more than just the tomb itself." OK, no need to go any further. This topic is really directed to those who think the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb. Your comments deal with issues for a different topic. Maybe you could start one. I understand better now. I took a closer look at the detail of your OP. I can see now that my answer is not what you seek. Peace be to you. |
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Post by davewatchman on Dec 16, 2018 14:38:24 GMT -6
Thanks Mike. But i think it's been covered back on the Godzilla Brothers thread, and the other thread that you linked here somewhere earlier in the day today. I remember this topic causing division. It's connected with so many other topics, like what year was the Crucifixion?, when was the Passover?, why were the Jews celebrating it on another day and what not. I'm thinking of one of the members that i like, taking a very different view of it all. I bet i should probably just stick with my blood moon business. For the sake of the Godzilla Brothers. And i'll avoid becoming a clanging symbol, Or a banging gong. |
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Post by rstrats on Jan 2, 2019 10:00:52 GMT -6
Someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.
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Post by rstrats on Jan 16, 2019 5:38:42 GMT -6
I need to add to the OP: "...and who thinks that a calendar day begins at sunset."
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Post by rstrats on Mar 12, 2019 11:46:56 GMT -6
In thinking about it, I realize that it doesn't make any difference with regard to sunset versus sunrise; there would still be a lack of a third night with a 6th day of the week crucifixion.
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Post by stormyknight on Mar 12, 2019 13:48:19 GMT -6
just my two cents... Jesus Christ was very specific. He said that the only sign given to them, a wicked and adulterous generation, a sign that they could see with their own eyes, would be the sign of the prophet Jonah: "Now the LORD had appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah spent three days and three nights in the stomach of the fish." Jonah 1:17
"For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Matt. 12:40
kardia(heart) - 3rd definition - used of the middle or central or inmost part of anything, even though inanimate
gēs(earth) - 2nd definition - the ground, the earth
The inmost part of the soil, logically, would be a tomb or grave.
I grew up in the catholic church and never could wrap my mind around how they got three days and three nights out of Friday afternoon to "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week," Matt 28:1 KJV
That's two nights and one day in my understanding.
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Post by rstrats on Mar 13, 2019 5:33:39 GMT -6
stormyknight,
Do you currently believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week?
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Post by stormyknight on Mar 13, 2019 7:42:02 GMT -6
rstrats, no I do not. I believe for the three days and three nights to fit, the last supper took place on the evening of the Passover, which would be our Tuesday after sunset. Then Jesus Christ was crucified on Wednesday, Passover day. After which those caring for Him had an urgency to get Him taken care of, so the rich man, Joseph of Arimethea, had them use his own tomb for expediency because the next day, the first Day of Unleavened Bread, is a High Sabbath day. That being Thursday. Friday, preparation day(for the weekly Sabbath) was when the women would have gone to collect the balms and herbs used in burial, not to mention prepare themselves for the weekly Sabbath. It's no surprise to me that the women were up early Sunday morning before sunrise to hurry to the tomb. Time being important in the preparation of a body. Remember they didn't go there to see if Jesus was still there, they went to prepare His body. But He was gone. Before sunrise. For the three days and three nights to work, Jesus would have risen about sunset on the Sabbath, three days and three nights after His body was placed in the tomb. So His body would not have been there the whole night, the 'evening' of first day of the week, Sunday. I think that is an important point that gets missed; being in the 'heart of the earth' would be when He was placed there, not from the moment He died. Because of time constraints, He would have been placed in the tomb just before sunset.
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Post by rstrats on Mar 13, 2019 7:54:50 GMT -6
stormyknight,
re: "...no I do not."
Then I'm afraid this topic does not apply to you.
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Post by mike on Mar 13, 2019 11:01:16 GMT -6
stormyknight, re: "...no I do not." Then I'm afraid this topic does not apply to you. RStrats - what do you mean by this? Is it that he doesnt see this event the same as you that you are dismissive of him or viewpoint? Just trying to understand. He engaged you in the dialogue and it sounds as you dismiss him or his differing opinion (or both)? EDIT - went back to read the first post (& page) and from what I can gather you are looking for supporting evidence that the three days in the tomb were not really three full days? If that's not it I would agree with what Fitz said on page one that I am not sure what you are asking or looking to discuss |
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Post by stormyknight on Mar 13, 2019 12:35:58 GMT -6
It's all good, mike . I went back also and re-read the OP and figured out that rstrats is wanting some supporting scripture/evidence of the 6th day crucifixion:
6. I wonder if anyone who falls in that group of believers could provide examples to support that belief;
He doesn't state whether he believes that or not. Since I fall in the category of those who do not believe in the 6th day crucifixion, mine is not the information he is looking for. I sent him a pm correcting my mistake.
His delivery was a little cryptic and so I misunderstood, but I'm learning that different areas of this world write/speak differently and we must need to give a little latitude in the English grammar. Which is not to say rstrats may be my neighbor down the road, but then I know some of my neighbors down the road are from Chihuahua, Mexico, so go figure...haha. I mean no offense by that whatsoever, rstrats, and I hope you take none.
Peace and Love!!
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Post by fitz on Mar 13, 2019 15:51:27 GMT -6
rstrats, did you ever follow up on the link I posted on page 2 of this thread?
"rstrats I have no idea what this website teaches, however, since you are looking for idioms surrounding this phrase, it appears that this guy (Ray Foucher) wrote a book about the meaning of "first day of the week" and related words describing events surrounding the Resurrection. Perhaps your answer is here or will lead you to more? The book "In the Heart of the Earth: The Secret Code That Reveals What Is In the Heart of God" was published in 2009.
Again, I don't know the theology espoused on this site, so be discerning."www.jesus-resurrection.info/heart-earth.html
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