holy
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Post by holy on Dec 21, 2018 20:10:48 GMT -6
I have not read the entire thread yet so forgive me for throwing out my two cents BEFORE I read it.
Gog= leader of the 10 nation alliance, led by Russia, Iran, and Turkey. I am now thinking Vladimir Putin is Gog. Since they will be going into Israel to PLUNDER, obviously Israel has things people want, such as gas, oil, and agriculture goods.
We can see the alliance forming before our eyes seeing that they all are in Syria, strategically moving closer to Israel. So, how soon are we in seeing this take place? Does this have anyth8ng to do with the rapture?
I wonder if the great earthquake that occurs when this war takes place signifies the resurrection of the dead Saints bodies. It seems like every rapture brings us an earthquake or will bring us one as written in the word. If that is so, and if the “war” is right around the corner, we may be called to come out very soon. I personally believe, subject to change of course, the Gog War will happen BEFORE Daniels 70th week. In fact it may even be several years before it. This would give Satan the time to raise up his “man with the plan” who will subsequently initiate the covenant confirmation to finally open up the last week of Daniels prophecy (week 70).
Going along with what I just said, I feel very confident in saying this war has nothing to do with Armageddon. I know some experts disagree (sorry Joel Richardson) but I don’t see how that is possible. Yes, there are some similarities, but also too many differences. Okay, enough said. Time to read the thread now. Perhaps everything I said has already been said. I apologize in advance if that be the case.
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holy
New Member
Posts: 34
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Post by holy on Dec 21, 2018 20:16:07 GMT -6
We do have some older threads on this topic if anybody wants to look at them. Raising my hand......Where are they?
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Post by Natalie on Dec 21, 2018 20:32:42 GMT -6
holy I just wanted to say welcome to the forums!
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holy
New Member
Posts: 34
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Post by holy on Dec 21, 2018 20:44:40 GMT -6
holy I just wanted to say welcome to the forums! Thank you, Thank you very much (said in an Elvis Presley voice).
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Post by kjs on Feb 19, 2019 13:15:59 GMT -6
BUT as with any other hear-say items -- take with a grain of salt ......
==========Some theories===================
In fact, Gog and Magog were held by the Mongol to be their ancestors, at least by some segment of the population. As traveler and Friar Riccoldo da Monte di Croce put it in c. 1291, "They say themselves that they are descended from Gog and Magog: and on this account they are called Mogoli, as if from a corruption of Magogoli".
Marco Polo, traveling when the initial terror had subsided, places Gog and Magog among the Tartars in Tenduc, but then claims that the names Gog and Magog are translations of the place-names Ung and Mungul, inhabited by the Ung and Mongols respectively.
Some time around the 12th century, the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel came to be identified with Gog and Magog; possibly the first to do so was Petrus Comestor in Historica Scholastica (c. 1169–1173), and he was indeed a far greater influence than others before him, although the idea had been anticipated by the aforementioned Christian of Stavelot, who noted that the Khazhars, to be identified with Gog and Magog, was one of seven tribes of the Hungarians and had converted to Judaism.
The Tartar Relation, an obscure account of Friar Carpini's 1240s journey to Mongolia, is unique in alleging that these Caspian Mountains in Mongolia, "where the Jews called Gog and Magog by their fellow countrymen are said to have been shut in by Alexander", were moreover purported by the Tartars to be magnetic, causing all iron equipment and weapons to fly off toward the mountains on approach.
An explanation offered by Orientalist Henry Yule was that Marco Polo was only referring to the "Rampart of Gog and Magog", a name for the Great Wall of China. Friar André's placement of Gog and Magog far east of Mongolia has been similarly explained.
This has not been the case in the United States, where a 2002 poll indicated that 59% of Americans believed the events predicted in the Book of Revelation would come to pass. During the Cold War the idea that Soviet Russia had the role of Gog gained popularity, since Ezekiel's words describing him as "prince of Meshek"—rosh meshek in Hebrew—sounded suspiciously like Russia and Moscow.
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Note: the above was not given to "PROVE" anything.... Simply to show many, many theories have been developed over the years.
I personal like that the "Great Wall of China" was apparently called by a few people -- "Rampart of Gog and Magog"
Just to tack onto this theory (and no I cannot prove it) -- what if the "WALL" was built to keep out the nephilim? You know the Giants....
And one tribe of the nephilim -- was Gog and Magog....
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Post by yardstick on Feb 19, 2019 20:55:37 GMT -6
Yes, Pharaoh. Jezebel, Herod...you can find several. Those come to the forefront of my mind. Antiochus IV Epiphanes isn't mentioned by name, but some think Daniel 11 is talking about him. Definitely a type of Antichrist. I remember hearing once (or reading once) -- cannot remember the "WHO Said"
BUT their take (I remember their idea just not who) -- that Lucifer has a "candidate" for the Anti-Christ in every generation because he does not know when that candidate would be needed...
So I remember some "current candidates" as Hitler, Stalin......
AND of course the POPE -- always (here lately) gets linked in as being the False Prophet......
It was Chuck Missler who surmised such a thing.
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Post by yardstick on Feb 19, 2019 21:17:29 GMT -6
Ezekiel 28 English Standard Version (ESV) 11 Moreover, the word of the Lord came to me: 12 “Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord God: “You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. 14 You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. 15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you. 16 In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I exposed you before kings, to feast their eyes on you. 18 By the multitude of your iniquities, in the unrighteousness of your trade you profaned your sanctuaries; so I brought fire out from your midst;
it consumed you,and I turned you to ashes on the earth
in the sight of all who saw you.19 All who know you among the peoples are appalled at you; you have come to a dreadful end
and shall be no more forever.” Is it just me, or is this a prophecy that looks like the events of Revelation 12:12 and 20:10?
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Post by venge on Mar 9, 2019 11:39:25 GMT -6
Ezekiel 28 English Standard Version (ESV) 11 Moreover, the word of the Lord came to me: 12 “Son of man, raise a lamentation over the king of Tyre, and say to him, Thus says the Lord God: “You were the signet of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared. 14 You were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you; you were on the holy mountain of God; in the midst of the stones of fire you walked. 15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you. 16 In the abundance of your trade you were filled with violence in your midst, and you sinned; so I cast you as a profane thing from the mountain of God, and I destroyed you, O guardian cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I exposed you before kings, to feast their eyes on you. 18 By the multitude of your iniquities, in the unrighteousness of your trade you profaned your sanctuaries; so I brought fire out from your midst;
it consumed you,and I turned you to ashes on the earth
in the sight of all who saw you.19 All who know you among the peoples are appalled at you; you have come to a dreadful end
and shall be no more forever.” Is it just me, or is this a prophecy that looks like the events of Revelation 12:12 and 20:10? Rev 12 and 20 are specifically speaking of the devil. This passage in Ezekiel is not. This is the King of Tyre, not Satan. Can see HERE for commentary on it showing so for other interpretations. Personally, I do not see it as a future prophecy, but one that has already been fulfilled.
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Post by yardstick on Mar 9, 2019 18:36:12 GMT -6
Is it just me, or is this a prophecy that looks like the events of Revelation 12:12 and 20:10? Rev 12 and 20 are specifically speaking of the devil. This passage in Ezekiel is not. This is the King of Tyre, not Satan. Can see HERE for commentary on it showing so for other interpretations. Personally, I do not see it as a future prophecy, but one that has already been fulfilled. Venge, thanks for your comments. FWIW, i explicitly left out verses 1-10, because I agree with you that they refer to the actual King of Tyre. However, as I am sure you are aware, God often changes topics in the middle of a chapter (a clear indication that a given chapter may be incorrectly divided by the translators). The first 10 verses of Ezekiel 28 are a prophecy to a specific individual; but doesn't it make sense that beginning in verse 11, that a different individual is being prophesied to? Else, why begin the verse with a new introduction: Isn't this a repeated pattern throughout prophetic scripture, where a new 'address' is given as an indicator of a new prophecy, despite being in the middle of an arbitrarily defined 'chapter'? If this is not so, what do you make of verse 13-17 of the quoted passage regarding the King of Tyre: was he as described in verses 13-17? I am unsure if you are taking the passage metaphorically or literally, since I have heard the King of Tyre being a representation/analog of satan. In other words, God is addressing satan by way of using the King of Tyre's title, because satan was, at the time, the [spiritual] 'power' behind the throne in Tyre. and when juxtaposed with verse 18-19: Also, regarding verses 13-17: I thought at first that maybe the entire passage was historical (the casting of satan down to the earth prior to the fall of man). However, that does not appear to match well with verses 18-19, since we have no record of satan having fire brought out from his midst and being consumed by it; being turned to ashes on the earth in sight of everyone (a dreadful end); and/or being no more forever (He is certainly still hanging around!). Do you think that God should be able to speak through a prophet in the past tense, despite the event not occurring yet; due to His nature of being outside the space-time continuum? We, of course, would find this confusing in our grammar because of our finite nature, right? Do you think there are multiple meanings to this passage? What do you think?
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Post by venge on Mar 10, 2019 16:49:05 GMT -6
Rev 12 and 20 are specifically speaking of the devil. This passage in Ezekiel is not. This is the King of Tyre, not Satan. Can see HERE for commentary on it showing so for other interpretations. Personally, I do not see it as a future prophecy, but one that has already been fulfilled. Venge, thanks for your comments. FWIW, i explicitly left out verses 1-10, because I agree with you that they refer to the actual King of Tyre. However, as I am sure you are aware, God often changes topics in the middle of a chapter (a clear indication that a given chapter may be incorrectly divided by the translators). The first 10 verses of Ezekiel 28 are a prophecy to a specific individual; but doesn't it make sense that beginning in verse 11, that a different individual is being prophesied to? Else, why begin the verse with a new introduction: Isn't this a repeated pattern throughout prophetic scripture, where a new 'address' is given as an indicator of a new prophecy, despite being in the middle of an arbitrarily defined 'chapter'? If this is not so, what do you make of verse 13-17 of the quoted passage regarding the King of Tyre: was he as described in verses 13-17? I am unsure if you are taking the passage metaphorically or literally, since I have heard the King of Tyre being a representation/analog of satan. In other words, God is addressing satan by way of using the King of Tyre's title, because satan was, at the time, the [spiritual] 'power' behind the throne in Tyre. and when juxtaposed with verse 18-19: Also, regarding verses 13-17: I thought at first that maybe the entire passage was historical (the casting of satan down to the earth prior to the fall of man). However, that does not appear to match well with verses 18-19, since we have no record of satan having fire brought out from his midst and being consumed by it; being turned to ashes on the earth in sight of everyone (a dreadful end); and/or being no more forever (He is certainly still hanging around!). Do you think that God should be able to speak through a prophet in the past tense, despite the event not occurring yet; due to His nature of being outside the space-time continuum? We, of course, would find this confusing in our grammar because of our finite nature, right? Do you think there are multiple meanings to this passage? What do you think? Brother Yardstick, I don't find the chapter changing at all. It is not required to do so. Look at the first passage Did he actually sit in the seat of God in Jerusalem and say out loud "I am God?" =P I wont even go into that *cough cough* Anyway, it begins as a message to the prince of Tyre. It addresses his faults and ends with what his punishment will be. Second is the King, not the Prince as Tyre itself is held responsible. What of the prophecy against Egypt? Ezekiel 31 How do TREES envy people? Unless *cough* Trees are men. In Ezekiel 28, the King of Tyre had the same issue as the prince. Pride. His heart was lifted up. The same as happened to Pharoah, the same in Tyre, the same with Nebuchadnezzar, the same with Assyria. In each case "trees" are mentioned. In each case they are hewn down to the pit. Their bark made white. Destroyed in the fire. Because they, like stars fell from heaven to earth with their pomp, their pride, their vanities of vanity. Trying to set themselves up like they are God, but they are just a man. 2 Thess 2:4 Just sayin'! How about Isaiah 14:13-14 This passage was referring to the King of Babylon. You asked: ps. I should add, there are many interpretations. That is why I said people confuse the chapter. It is confusing. I think when we look at what Lucifer is, bringer of light (morning star), and define it then it’ll shed more “light” lol, on it all. As a matter of fact, Revelation talks about us having our own Lucifer (morning star) in our hearts.
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Post by rt on Mar 11, 2019 15:09:07 GMT -6
mike, As I read this verse, one thing that strikes me is the Gog is described in various terms: *He is of the land of Magog ( who was one of the sons of Japheth) *He is the chief prince of Meschech and Tubal my bible adds Rosh to this list. *Other nations accompany him- Persia, Cush and Put, Gomer, Beth-togarmah It is implied that he is a leader who many nations follow into war. I always wondered if he is like those "princes" mentioned in Daniel, the angel Micheal is referred to as a "chief prince". (Dan 10:13) though it is a different Hebrew word used for the word so perhaps not. Just a thought though.
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Post by breathoflife on Sept 10, 2019 3:21:56 GMT -6
I have a book Tower of Babel by Bodie Hodge (works at Answers in Genesis). It traces where people went after the Tower of Babel. He starts with Josephus and works on from there. Josephus says that Tubal gave rise to what the Greeks called the Iberians. He (the author) has Tubal as being the people that eventually settles in Siberia (place names there include Tobolsk and Tobol River) The Iberian people also settled the Iberian Peninsula (Spain). Meshech settled in the area between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. Then they went farther north to the Moscow Region. There are places there called Meshera Lowland and the Meshera National Park. The old name of Moscow was Meshech or Meshera and various forms of these names are present in this area (Moksha, Moscha, Moche, etc) The Magog group had a larger range and mixed with many people. The dominant group were the Scythians, covering large portions of present day Russia and the Ukraine. This make sense to me. Gog - eastern Russia or European Russia, maybe even a little of Asia plus the areas of Armenia down through Turkey etc.
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Post by breathoflife on Sept 10, 2019 3:44:55 GMT -6
If Scripture interprets Scripture we are told that Gog and Magog are the nations just the unbelieving Gentiles who will follow Satan to destroy the Israel who has been a Royal Nation of Priests . The 144,000 usually called the faithful remnant.
if I may what has taken place is a thousand years before this the Lord returned to the Mount of Olives when He does the Mount splits in two forming a valley, like the Red Sea, through which the remnant escapes. Fleeing through the valley to the mountains. The apostate portion is destroyed by anti-Christ, the false prophet and their 200,000,000 army. This army is not China or Russia its much much worse. The angel of the Abyss, anti-Christ ascends out of the Bottomless Pit, the Abyss. When anti- Christ ascended his demonic army came with him. Those fallen angels and those held under the Euphrates are released having been held in prison. These are those who will destroy apostate Israel and in turn be destroyed by the Lord by the brightness of His Coming, the Shekinah Glory which is said to look like Lightening.
Interestingly enough when the false prophet came seven seven years before this if we understand the greatest Prophet our Lord saw Satan fall like lightening make people believe the false prophet is long awaited Elijah. Satan is said to come as lightening not only counterfeiting the Lord’s glory but providing the thing the temple anti-christ as his it provides the fire needed for temple worship. This is part of the Great Delusion that is coming on the world. At the end of the Passover Seder the door is opened and the call for Elijah to come is made. One of these days it is going to be the false prophet, preparing the way as promised. Fire from heaven and the apostate portion of Israel will believe the Lie, anti-Christ instead of the Truth, Jesus Christ. Thanks look forward to hearing from you.
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Post by Natalie on Sept 10, 2019 8:21:12 GMT -6
Many believe there are two Gog and Magog wars. We are waiting for the first to begin and the second is the one described in Revelation.
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Post by breathoflife on Sept 10, 2019 11:51:31 GMT -6
Hi, I understand that and there are those who read the accounts of creation as being two separate acts but it is just a further description of what the Lord did. Scripture never applies Gog and Magog to anyone but the Gentile nations. It is clear it says Gog and Magog the nations.
the two wars will take place with first being anti-Christ and the false prophet having convinced the apostate portion he is the long looked for Messiah. For three and have years He will appear to be the Lamb of God then he reveals himself to be the wolf. Anti- Christ will have come not with a 200, 000, 000 million man army. That would terrifying but when he ascends out of the pit with his fallen angels those and the angels under the Euphrates are also released having been held for this time of judgment. The first war will occur when anti-Christ has just about destroyed the entire apostate portion and is ready to continue his attack on the Remnant. When the Lord stands on Mount Olivet it will split in two opening a valley through which they escape out of judged apostate Israel the Lord defeats anti-Christ, the false prophet and their demonic army. Anti-Christ and the false prophet are thrown into the Lake of Fire. At the same time Satan is brought down from where he’s stands before God the Father accusing the brethren and in unbreakable chains is placed in the prison of the Bottomless pit for a thousand years so he cannot deceive the nations, Gentile nations all that is left fromIsrael is the remnant who will priests of the order Zadok who having become the Royal nation of priests who will serve in the Millennial Temple to teach the hations. Of the Lamb of God and the only way to be saved faith in Christ. The Gentile nations will be command come to the temple especially for the Feast of Tabernacles.. there is no satanic influence during this time anti-Christ and false prophet being torment day and night in LOF.Satan in prison where he cannot deceive the nations. The flesh will be revealed in all its enmity with God. No one can claim the devil made us reject His Christ. The Lord says it will be as it was in the days of Noah when the fallen angels left their proper place serving the Lord. As in the days of Noah not as in the days of Russia or any Gentile. The demonic army comes up out of the abyss under anti-Christ the angels held under the Euphrates as both prisoners who is king over themThe Angel of the Abyss. After this thousand years Satan released from the pit to deceive the nations Gog and Magog and the nations are judged just as apostate Israel had been judged. First to the Jew then to the Gentile. As with the Israel a remnant of the them the Gentile armies and Satan. Satan is cast into the LOF.
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