|
Post by Natalie on Jan 31, 2020 11:20:44 GMT -6
So, JD Farag has done an update on the peace plan (I will post it in a minute). He downloaded the plan and read it. (He encourages others to read at least the first 20 pages) And even though Amir says that giving East Jerusalem to the Palestinians is not dividing Jerusalem, JD says that what he reads says otherwise. I apologize, especially to Beloved, for so readily accepting Amir's word on things. I did because he is there in Israel; I figured he should know. So, not only does the plan divide Israel, but it may indeed also divide Jerusalem. Pastor JD said that he is going to do a more complete update on Sunday. Jerusalem is indeed a burdensome stone. And Jesus is coming soon.
|
|
|
Post by Natalie on Jan 31, 2020 11:22:22 GMT -6
The update is there at the beginning. (25 minutes long)
|
|
|
Post by mike on Jan 31, 2020 11:50:52 GMT -6
So, JD Farag has done an update on the peace plan (I will post it in a minute). He downloaded the plan and read it. (He encourages others to read at least the first 20 pages) And even though Amir says that giving East Jerusalem to the Palestinians is not dividing Jerusalem, JD says that what he reads says otherwise. I apologize, especially to Beloved , for so readily accepting Amir's word on things. I did because he is there in Israel; I figured he should know. So, not only does the plan divide Israel, but it may indeed also divide Jerusalem. Pastor JD said that he is going to do a more complete update on Sunday. Jerusalem is indeed a burdensome stone. And Jesus is coming soon. Isnt Israel and Jerusalem already divided? Has the west bank and east Jerusalem been Israels since 1948? I'm not trying to minimize this but what really would change? I dont really see much difference here
|
|
|
Post by Natalie on Jan 31, 2020 12:53:03 GMT -6
I think...but could be wrong...I think it's the fact that the land that the Palestinians are in right now will be given to them as a state - meaning it will be permanently theirs. It's land that should be Israel, and they are giving it away. The Palestinians should either move or be content with living in a state called Israel. But they aren't because they want the land and no Jews. (making a blanket statement about all Palestinians. I am sure there are those who would be happy just living their lives, raising their families, etc)
Yes, it doesn't really change anything other than making it officially theirs, permanently.
There is a lot I don't understand about Israel and the Palestinians. I need to find a good source to read up on who lives where, what rules and laws apply to what areas, etc.
|
|
Beloved
New Member
Waiting for our Blessed Hope
Posts: 43
|
Post by Beloved on Jan 31, 2020 21:12:43 GMT -6
Natalie , you're fine! I was going off my second-hand sources, and so were you, and Amir is normally a very good one. There is a reason why he said that, see below. I have read the political part of the peace plan, so here is Beloved's Quick Summary of the Prophetically Important Chunk of the Peace Plan (take it or leave it, like it or not). It shall be accurate and unbiased, with quotes and references. I'll skip over economic and mundane elements, focusing on the important issues. If one wishes to read the plan in full (which I highly recommend), here is the link: Peace Plan PDF. For the sourcing, paragraphs are counted from the top of the page, with every group of words/sentences counting as one paragraph (lists are held as one paragraph). Summary:
1. The State of Israel shall be divided, in accordance with the Conceptual Maps below. This is designed to preserve the security of Israel, give significant territory to the Palestinians, and avoid much population transport, among other things (pg. 11, various items on list, sec. 'Borders'). This will not, however, be a full return to pre-1967 (pg. 11-12, para. i (on pg.12), sec. 'Borders'). More details can be found on pages 11-14 of the document. 2. The holy sites in Jerusalem will remain under status quo (pg. 16, para. iii-iv, sec. 'Jerusalem's Holy Sites'). The Temple Mount should, in the document's opinion, allow people to "pray on the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif, in a manner that is fully respectful to their religion, taking into account... other religious factors" (pg. 16, para. v, sec. 'Jerusalem's Holy Sites'). I do not know if this will be enforced, however. 3. A PHYSICAL division of Jerusalem shall be avoided (pg. 16-17, para. iv-v, sec. 'Political Status of Jerusalem'). This is what is meant by keeping Jerusalem undivided. There is, however, a security barrier already in place that "will serve as a border between the capitals of the two parties" (pg. 17, para. iv, sec. 'Political Status of Jerusalem'). The city of Jerusalem will be host to two capitals, the Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem beyond the security barrier (pg. 17, para. v, sec.'Political Status of Jerusalem'). This agreement supports the international recognition of East Jerusalem as Palestinian capital (pg. 19, para. i, sec. 'Recognition of Capitals'). A U.S. embassy will be set up within this new 'capital' (pg. 19, para. iii of 'Recognition of Capitals'). In summary, Jerusalem will, while not divided by a wall, will be host to two capitals separated by a security barrier, with the Palestinian capital under Palestinian control. Further details can be found on pages 14-19, section 'JERUSALEM'. 4. The Palestinians will rely on defense from Israel, and will not have their own defense (pg. 21, para. vii-viii of "SECURITY"). They will have security forces for internal matters and counter terrorism (pg 22, element 2 on list, sec. "SECURITY). Failure to meet these criteria will result in Israel gaining the right to reverse the peace process (pg 23, para 2, sec. "SECURITY"). Further information and details can be found on pages 21-24, section "SECURITY". 5. Gaza will be demilitarized (pg. 26, para. i, no. 3, sec. 'GAZA CRITERIA'). Hamas members will not be allowed to serve in govt. unless they fulfill strict requirements, outlined on page 26, para iii, no. 2, sec. 'GAZA CRITERIA'. 6. Palestinian refugees will be absorbed into the State of Palestine (bitter taste every time I type that, lol), (pg 32, para. v, no. 1, sec. 'General Framework'). 7. Palestine will be a full-fledged state, with government, free/fair elections, rights for the people, proper financial institutions, law enforcement, etc. (pg 34, para. iii-vii, sec. "FOUNDATIONS OF A PALESTINIAN STATE"). 8. Israel will not build anymore settlements or expand Israeli enclaves (pg. 38, para. 5, no. 1-2, sec. 'The State of Israel'). Palestine will stop the martyr and prisoner payments and not take the US or Israel to court, among other things (ph. 39, para. ii, no. 1-4, sec. 'Palestinians'). They will drop all claims against each other (pg. 38, para. i, sec. "END OF CLAIMS/END OF CONFLICT"). 9. Israel will control the Jordan Valley (Appendix 2A, pg 1, para. v-vii, sec. 'The Jordan River'). 10. Maps: My Thoughts
This is... not good. The land is divided in twain to form a bona-fide Palestinian state, albiet with no military. Jerusalem, while not physically divided, becomes for all intents and purposes divided. Even if this isn't the covenant, it is most certainly a covenant with the grave; God will most likely not be pleased, judging from His Word. May He show mercy to the United States, Israel, the Palestinians, and the world.
|
|
|
Post by mike on Jan 31, 2020 21:14:39 GMT -6
So, JD Farag has done an update on the peace plan (I will post it in a minute). He downloaded the plan and read it. (He encourages others to read at least the first 20 pages) And even though Amir says that giving East Jerusalem to the Palestinians is not dividing Jerusalem, JD says that what he reads says otherwise. I apologize, especially to Beloved, for so readily accepting Amir's word on things. I did because he is there in Israel; I figured he should know. So, not only does the plan divide Israel, but it may indeed also divide Jerusalem. Pastor JD said that he is going to do a more complete update on Sunday. Jerusalem is indeed a burdensome stone. And Jesus is coming soon. Paul Dawson just posted a video. Hes pretty fired up about Amir, Hibbs, & Stanger dismissing this as anything but Dan 9:27 and he stopped just shy of calling Trump the anti-christ
|
|
|
Post by disciple4life on Jan 31, 2020 21:28:24 GMT -6
I think...but could be wrong...I think it's the fact that the land that the Palestinians are in right now will be given to them as a state - meaning it will be permanently theirs. It's land that should be Israel, and they are giving it away. The Palestinians should either move or be content with living in a state called Israel. But they aren't because they want the land and no Jews. (making a blanket statement about all Palestinians. I am sure there are those who would be happy just living their lives, raising their families, etc) Yes, it doesn't really change anything other than making it officially theirs, permanently. There is a lot I don't understand about Israel and the Palestinians. I need to find a good source to read up on who lives where, what rules and laws apply to what areas, etc. My understanding is limited, but there are several big factors in play here.
Jerusalem is not mentioned one single time, anywhere in the Quran, and it is mentioned over 600 times in the Bible. ***The Arabs/Muslims have no historical claim to Jerusalem, or any of the land of Israel.
JD Farag - Lebanese Arab, raised as a Muslim, and told that he was a 'Palestinian' and was taught the Quran.
Then, at age 19, he accepted Christ, and found out "There is no such thing as Palestinians, and there is no Palestine."
Palestine was a geographical region, like the Smoky Mountains, or Appalachia, not a race, not a country, not a state, not a people.
- The term was cut out of whole cloth as propaganda, by Yasar Arafat, to create a false victim people. And furthermore, that notion of "Occupied territories" is also propaganda, to specifically mean that the land belongs to the Arabs, and is being occupied by the oppressors,- the Jews.
- 95% of all the people in the West Bank, - the ones who are calling for the total destruction of Israel and the Jewish people, and who is supported and funded by Hamas, are Jordanian Arabs, with Jordanian Passports, and who speak Arabic, the official language of Jordan.
- If they are Jordanian, and have Jordanian Passports, they have a huge country next door, more than 100x bigger than Israel, So why do they want to be declared a country/nation state. ***Because the Jordanians, nor the Lebanese, nor the Syrians, nor any other Arab country has any historical or Biblical claim to the land.
If there is a poor victim, and if they are oppressed, then they must be punished before the world .
There is no "Palestinian" anything. [Substitute Hobbits or Leprechauns.] No 'Palestinian language, culture, no Palestinian historical artifacts, no Palestinian passport, no Palestinian music, antiques or no historical leaders earlier than 1950. Yasar Arafat. - "The Land was given to Isreal."
- "If any deal divides or separates any part of Jerusalem, it is against the Will of God, the Word of God and the Plan of God.
- " This is not good, and this is not God and God will not bless this. This could very well be the catalyst for that - [the 7 year tribulation]" " This is heartbreaking for me, because I know where this is going and I know what this means.
-"My initial excitement has turned into an alarming urgency, as it relates to this plan. The Jury is out at to how this will play out." -" Zach 12 is very explicit - if you try to divide it, cut, I [God] will cut you.
|
|
|
Post by disciple4life on Jan 31, 2020 21:37:35 GMT -6
So, JD Farag has done an update on the peace plan (I will post it in a minute). He downloaded the plan and read it. (He encourages others to read at least the first 20 pages) And even though Amir says that giving East Jerusalem to the Palestinians is not dividing Jerusalem, JD says that what he reads says otherwise. I apologize, especially to Beloved , for so readily accepting Amir's word on things. I did because he is there in Israel; I figured he should know. So, not only does the plan divide Israel, but it may indeed also divide Jerusalem. Pastor JD said that he is going to do a more complete update on Sunday. Jerusalem is indeed a burdensome stone. And Jesus is coming soon. Paul Dawson just posted a video. Hes pretty fired up about Amir, Hibbs, & Stanger dismissing this as anything but Dan 9:27 and see stopped just shy of calling Trump the anti-christ Hey mike, Can you post the link for Paul Watchman Dawson's video.?? Or tell us the name of it??
Can't wait to see it.
|
|
|
Post by mike on Feb 1, 2020 6:25:53 GMT -6
Pauls video
|
|
|
Post by disciple4life on Feb 1, 2020 9:00:16 GMT -6
I'm working through the video.
I'm a fan of JD Farag, Perry Stone, Amir Tsarfati, Paul Watchman Dawson and Pastor Steve Cioccolanti- [all end times teachers] and President Trump. I listen to them, and respect them and feel they have wisdom, but they are all, still just men who make mistakes and none of them have a monopoly on truth and they are not my Savior.
They all have different views and takes and each of them has unique qualities and insight. One is Arab- Lebanese Christian, one is Jewish, former Colonel in the Israeli Air force, one is Asian in Australia and one is from East Tennessee. How is this related to this topic?
There is no question that this plan does divide Israel and gives land to a mythical group of people. There is no Palestinians - they are Jordanian Arabs - who hate Israel, and are funded by and support Terrorists. It is also explicitly clear in scripture that God will punish the nations that divide Israel.
It's also true, like @natalie said, that that God gave the land to Isreal for all time, - everlasting covenant, and even if Israel agrees to make a "Faux-lestinian state", it won't surprise God, and it's not the end of the story.
All of the three points above can be true, BUT that doesn't automatically mean that this plan starts the Tribulation, or that this is the 7 year treaty with many.
There has to be some huge event that is a trigger, or "lights the fuse" and starts the timer. We have a specific day count for the Tribulation, and very clear evants that are prophesied and we should see the Ezekiel 38 war, or the start of the construction of the 3rd temple, or a major coordinated attack on Israel with Russia and Iran being key players. The Superbowl isn't it.
***We also need to acknowledge that just as there are different views on the timing of the rapture, we also need to be mindful of the fact that many people don't accept the view that this passage in Daniel in fact is the 7 year tribulation. There are multitudes that see that this passage was referring to Christ, and also the separate view that it was referring to some other event, but which has already been fulfilled in the past.
I love and respect Paul Watchman Dawson and have personally corresponded with him many times. Heres a few observations/ concerns regarding this video. 1. He all but said Trump is the AC. There's multiple threads on various AC theories. 2. He makes the very clear and compelling case that this divides Israel and there is explicitly clear scripture for this. JD Farag said that same thing. That's a separate thread - all it's own. 3. But this plan is for four years - not 7- with multiple conditions that have to be met. 4. No proof that this plan IS THE 7 year treaty of Daniel [ the Great Tribulation]. 5. It could be that Gantz, or Kushner or Netanyah or Macron or someone else is the one who "strengthens" the covenant with many nations". Kushner is a much better candidate, because he and Jason Greenblatt wrote the plan, and he is Jewish, unlike Trump. 6. As of now, it's early but there are about 4-5 nations if Trump signs it, and if it gets Knesset approval- and that doesn't qualify as "many". 7. We need to take a step back, tap the breaks as mike my dear friend says, and remember that 2 1/2 years ago people were adamant and convinced that the rev 12 sign was THE sign which was linked to the rapture, and twisted facts because it was close to Feast of Trumpets.
Instead of admitting - "you know, it wasn't what we thought it was", some of the same leaders are still making connections of random days to the event in Sep of 2017, 30 days later, six months later, one year later, two years later, and it reinforces all the stereotypes of Christians as superstitious whacko's, distorting facts and deceiving people. *** If you see a "Falling Rocks" sign in the middle of Kansas, it doesn't mean it's not a sign. 😉 It means that it doesn't mean what you think it does. He (and other writers for unsealed) use the number of times words appear in a text or story - like 'Security' and 'state of Israel' and 'signed' and then like for example the word Jerusalem appears 137 times and then use the same number in Strongs concordance and spin this to build some bogus, fallacious connection to prove their case.
This is not Bible study ! Its not Hermeneutics, and it's not only a total farse, but worse!!🤮
It teaches naive Christians that this is a viable method of Bible study or interpretation. It's nothing short of hogwash that causes heresy and undermines Christianity. 💀😈
I will be watching and praying earnestly as the next few weeks and months unfold - with one eye on world events and the other eye on scripture.
A lot can happen in 8 months.
Maranatha.
|
|
|
Post by mike on Feb 1, 2020 9:33:09 GMT -6
D4L i wanted to see reactions before posting my own. I think Paul makes good points and agree with principles of what he is saying. But i also dont see that the situation fully jives with scripture.
I am not dismissive of the points made by Amir and Co. however (and i did listen to their video) in my opinion they seem to believe that this has to happen, next this, then that... In that exact order cuz thats how they view end times. Could they be right, maybe. Could they be missing something?
Luke 24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
Is it possible our own views of how we think things should happen blind us at times?
Edit - also of note is how these men (not Paul) dismiss the Great Sign of Rev 12. Things we accept and reject shape our views
|
|
Beloved
New Member
Waiting for our Blessed Hope
Posts: 43
|
Post by Beloved on Feb 1, 2020 9:45:57 GMT -6
My advice to everyone: read the plan yourself, and make your own opinion! Everyone here is Biblically literate enough to understand it and do what we do best: speculate. (Still, I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t going to watch Mr. Farag’s commentary as soon as it arises).
|
|
|
Post by disciple4life on Feb 1, 2020 10:19:14 GMT -6
Spot on, 100% agree, Beloved and mike . I want to say that re the Rev 12 sign, I'm not a hater, not a naysayer. It meant something big, and I think was instrumental to wake up thousands of sleeping, apathetic Christians, and now they are watching. It increased the awareness and use of tools like Starry Night and Stellarium like 1000 fold. LOL.
I also think it was a key piece in the End-Times puzzle and events. I don't have all the pieces. I think people hyped it up too much - including the use of the Strongs/bogus tactic I mentioned, and also falsely claimed it was on Yom Teruah [Feast of Trumpets] which is actually wasn't.
If you see the sign for "In and Out Burgers in Tennessee" or "Grits and Sweet Tea" in Pennsylvania, it doesn't mean it's nothing - It's just not "Cracker Barrel". By itself it was a very rare physical manifestation in the sky of events foretold in Rev. 12.
The only other word picture I can think of is like the "Red Heiffer" By itself, doesn't mean much, but it's a huge, important piece in the end times puzzle, but the significance is in the convergence of signs.
And yes, Beloved, I can't even wait to see JD Farag's take this sunday.
|
|
|
Post by mike on Feb 1, 2020 10:44:45 GMT -6
I want to say that re the Rev 12 sign, I'm not a hater, not a naysayer. It meant something big, and I think was instrumental to wake up thousands of sleeping, apathetic Christians, and now they are watching. It increased the awareness and use of tools like Starry Night and Stellarium like 1000 fold. LOL.
ME!
|
|
|
Post by Natalie on Feb 1, 2020 11:41:41 GMT -6
Yes, D4L, it's that all of these things are happening together. That's one of the reasons this peace plan is worth watching.
|
|