Beloved
New Member
Waiting for our Blessed Hope
Posts: 43
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Post by Beloved on Feb 8, 2020 16:33:45 GMT -6
Beloved , I don't see it as easily refuted. 2 Thessalonians 2 2 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? So Paul is comforting the Thessalonians, basically saying hey, relax. You may be in tribulation, but this is not The Great Tribulation. That day doesn't come until the Day of the Lord and that day the the man of lawlessness is revealed. So, if apostasy refers to a "departure' rather than "a falling away", that's great. Either way it happens right before or on the Day of the Lord, and the article you linked says the same. Either way, it seems to me, we are raptured right before the Day of the Lord, or simultaneously. The problem with pre-trib lies in the next part. And this part doesn't happen until the mid-point of tribulation. The revealing of the man of Lawlessness. Does the man of lawlessness reveal himself with a "confirmation" or "strengthening" of a peace plan or covenant? I cannot find scripture that says he is actually revealed at that point. You can argue that he is (debatable), but scripture doesn't seem to say he is actually formally revealed for who he is. Or, as I think it says, he only really formally reveals himself when he takes his seat in the Temple at the mid-point? So we should ask ourselves, "Does he reveal himself twice?" Why would he need to? Also this - Matthew 24:21 21 For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. Not tribulation, but Great Tribulation. At what time? Matthew 24:15 15 So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand)... Anti-Christ, standing in the holy place. The temple. Mid-point of tribulation. Back to Paul, he goes on - 6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming... So the Anti-Christ is being restrained and only until God's time will he be revealed. What does restrained mean? No power whatsoever? I don't think so, we've been in varying degrees of some kind of tribulation and evil since the beginning. Interesting that it says the "mystery of the lawlessness is already at work". What is this "mystery"? I think the mystery of lawlessness is a power unseen, unknown except by its effects, that is ever working in the world for evil. It is working against the law and will of God. Including a peace plan that attempts to divide Israel according to man's desire rather than God's. It certainly is a very big step toward the end and I'm not sure what the events will be during the first 3.5 years. Maybe Isaiah 17. Maybe Ezekiel 38. But that doesn't mean the Anti-Christ is actually revealed yet. Moving on, then the one who restrains, the Holy Spirit, the Lord, steps out of the way. Then the lawless one is revealed, again, at the mid-point. The video mike posted shows scripture interpreting scripture and it seems to me a more solid interpretation of the events that will happen. It really boils down to where you believe the Day of the Lord begins. At the beginning of the 7 years, or 3.5 into it? Is it the Great Tribulation from the start of the 7 years? Or is it 3.5 years of tribulation and 3.5 years of Great Tribulation. I am leaning towards the later when the Anti-Christ is actually revealed and we are raptured. Especially if we aren't raptured in the the 2020/2021 time frame. If not then, then I think we have to start considering a Pre-Wrath rapture, if the end of the 7 years is a 2027/2028 time frame (Israel Fig-tree generation parable). Apologies for the late response. Hmm, very well sog . So, it does indeed come down to when the Day begins. However, a very good case can be made for it beginning before this whole mess begins. To begin, I will bring out a very major point. The 24 elders most likely represent the Church, check out these two articles (you won't regret it!) : Article 1, Article 2 If this is so (and it is, I am 99% certain), it doesn't matter when the Day starts; the Church is in Heaven before Seal 1. Even if this is wrong (and I very, very much doubt it) there are several other points. First, note 1 Thessalonains 5:9,"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ." We are not appointed to the wrath, but to be saved. However, we know that the wrath begins, at the very least, at the sixth seal (and seals one through four are definitely divine wrath, so probably even before then), for the sixth seal is explicitly said to be an expression of the wrath of the Lamb (Rev. 6:16-17). In fact, these verses say that the day of His wrath has arrived, implying that the Day of the Lord is indeed here. Rev. 3:10 also applies here. Secondly, note 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3, "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape." The AoD is not exactly a thief in the night moment; it can be precisely calculated (to at least a month, at best exact day). Another point: at the AoD, the world has already begun to crumble down; the sudden destruction is already here. The 'peace and safety' probably has to do with the covenant Antichrist confirms. It will be like a thief in the night to the world, for they will not expect the wrath of God to begin shortly thereafter. However, if it begins at the AoD, this element of surprise is lost. Third, note that the Antichrist is said, in Daniel, to be the one who confirms/strengths the covenant. Well, tada! We know that the great leader who confirms this is Antichrist; this will reveal him. Antichrist does many things, and he will be blindingly obvious with those with eyes to see. He will confirm this covenant, he will become king of the world, and he will most likely rebuild the Temple (the Jews will accept as Messiah he who builds the Temple and is from David, and the Jews will accept Antichrist as Messiah (John 5:43), see Mishnah Torah, Sefer Shoftim, Kings and Wars 11). He will be revealed to the world by at least the confirmation, so fret not! Scripture does not contradict itself. Because of all this and more, I truly believe God will rescue His Church from the divine wrath, and we will be safe and secure with Him.
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Post by disciple4life on Feb 8, 2020 20:37:26 GMT -6
sog and Beloved you both make very compelling points.
Many of you know, but i was raised/ taught pre-trib dispensational position. But i was also taught surprise (any day, any hour) rapture and other positions. After much study and reading the posts of fellow watchmen, and cross-referencing scripture clues from Christ and Paul with OT prophets I've come to a new and totally different place- 180 degrees from how i was taught, or very different views from what I 'believed' 10 years ago.
I only say this to underscore what mike and others have said. We each have to come to grips with the fact that no one has all the pieces, and things could play out very differently than we thought.
So i still lean pre-trib. I'm looking at other views, but I'm not buying four fuel stoves and not 3 years supply of powdered milk and rice just yet.
The examples that Christ gave of comparing the end times to Lot and Noah were for a reason. He could have used Jericho and the Philistines or Amalekites. Countless examples of wicked cities/ people who were destroyed. Lot and his family were warned and completely removed/ taken out of Sodom before the calamity came. Noah was warned and taken into the ark before the first drop of rain fell.
Daniel and the 3 Hebrew children did not even have their hair singed by the "Fiery Furnace" and while people say, they went though the fire- were not taken out of it -- it's interesting that this example was NOT given as a picture of the last days/ Tribulation.
In Christ's first Advent, his parents were also warned, and completely removed out of harm's way. Herod's command to murder all the boys 2 years and under. The church is the Bride of Christ - his bride doesn't need to be punished or purified. I know some believe that the seals have already been opened but the same people cant give any date or trigger event that started the Tribulation, nor is there a single scripture to support /show that the first seal is Christ and no scripture that describes Christ on a white horse.
Christ and Paul both compared the church to the Bride of Christ. When we look at the model Christ gave - [the wedding] and compare this with traditional Hebrew weddings, the groom comes with a Shout. Ring a bell?? The groom then takes his bride into the wedding chamber/ chuppah for 7 days - ring a bell?? Then he returns WITH his bride, and they celebrate together with the guests.
The first 3 1/2 years are/ will be still be horrible. It's not called the tribulation for nothing. Some have suggested the Rev 12 sign in Sept 2017 was the start but the temple is not even started, and the 2 witnesses who breathe fire are not present. While the peace plan could be something that is the foundation for the treaty, that will only be seen over the coming months. At this time we only have a handful of nations who have supported the plan and Israel doesn't even have va government. The notion that the church has to be punished or purified is like a groom saying on his wedding- "honey, I love you so much. Now, I'm going to beat the tar out of you for 7 years and then we'll go celebrate".
For now- one camping stove is enough. If Damascus is totally destroyed and there's a ginormous earthquake, I'll buy 3 more, and stock up on rice, and dried food.
There has to be some trigger, and if this happens, and it's not the rapture, -and we're all still here, I think the trigger will be unmistakable - like multi-national strike on Israel, and the Church will recognize it.
Maranatha, - Until Feast of Trumpets comes [The Feast that No One Knows the Day or Hour] I'll pray, be about the Father's business, and be watching the Israeli elections.
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Feb 8, 2020 21:52:39 GMT -6
disciple4life , I thought the Church is a body of believers both dead and alive at the time of the twinkling change. How can the dead in Christ get the tar beaten' out of them? This is a thought that comes to my mind when when the reference to the Bride is made in regards to tribulation. I also witnessed someone on national tv suffering from wrath, tearing up pieces of paper, gnashing her teeth while doing so. I am not poking fun here, nor mocking anything. Something occurs to me everytime I witness tragedy on the news. Some are targeted for their faith some are targeted by the forces of nature or men of war or whatever. Nonetheless, if you are living in Australia and a Christ-follower and your town has been burnt down, is that not worthy of the label of tribulation? What about someone personally suffering from cancer? what about the Christians in Wuhan? I was not aware that we need a date set that made it official to the start of the end ( aka 7 year trib, aka The Great Trib, etc). Where is the date or a trigger event that shows seal One? For me the Holy Spirit is our conquerer against the forces and principalities in the heavenly realm, our helper, thru which we conquer lust, pride, things of this world. That particular seal does not say what this rider is to conquer, but we were told by Jesus He would send us a Helper. I associate most of the "white" things of the Word with goodness. Just like the argument for the Bride references, white equates to purity for me, not anti-Christ stuff.. There are 7 seals and they all do not reference evil. One is a plea of all things (seal 5). One is a proclamation and a request of what not to do. The trigger evnt that opened the Seals? It was the seating at the Right Hand and solving the issue of no one found worthy UNTIL the One who was Slain came into the picture. The Ascension opened the Deed to the Earth. Does not mean ALL the events had to happen at once. The seal opened reveal to us what would begin to happen upon His Worthiness being found. We have tons of threads on the seals. I don't want to derail the topic, but it was mentioned in d4L's post. He and I have had our conversations. He and others know where I used to be on the topic of the end times. What IS the event that truly says to any Christ-follower, "Great TRiB: Here it is. It has started. My vengeance is NOW!" ? I keep falling back on the coming like a thief comment and, I have many a devote follower more concerned over loved ones than the debauchery going on in the world, or what is going in Israel or even the pestilence and earthquakes in high frequency. Earlier in the 2000's there was a concern for one world government. Maybe it will happen yet, but I see a disruption in this pattern at the moment. Rev 12 1,2 seemed to have occurred, so where is the temple? Yes, some things seem to not be exactly lining up to what I have been taught which is the pre-trib 7 year model with a bad thing happening mid 7 years in a temple of God. Especially if this thing with Trump and Bebe is THE thing maybe it will be confirmed later by many. If so, lets start a clock from the day Trump spoke and we should go 3 1/2 years from it when it was proposed. Please understand, things clearly are going on that confirm to me that we are close to physically tabernacling with our Lord. But what if it plays out a way we did not think? what if we keep seeing things that we should not be seeing according to the 7 year model? We have yet to have the 2nd eclipse. Kinda seems important that THAT happens even though it is not stated in Rev, it is a darkening of the sun that makes an X over the only country in the world that proclaims Christ officially. I have no points to make, just rambling on and vocalizing where this fine forum has led me the past 3 years.
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Post by boraddict on Feb 9, 2020 1:46:28 GMT -6
disciple4life , I thought the Church is a body of believers both dead and alive at the time of the twinkling change. How can the dead in Christ get the tar beaten' out of them? This is a thought that comes to my mind when when the reference to the Bride is made in regards to tribulation. I also witnessed someone on national tv suffering from wrath, tearing up pieces of paper, gnashing her teeth while doing so. I am not poking fun here, nor mocking anything. Something occurs to me everytime I witness tragedy on the news. Some are targeted for their faith some are targeted by the forces of nature or men of war or whatever. Nonetheless, if you are living in Australia and a Christ-follower and your town has been burnt down, is that not worthy of the label of tribulation? What about someone personally suffering from cancer? what about the Christians in Wuhan? I was not aware that we need a date set that made it official to the start of the end ( aka 7 year trib, aka The Great Trib, etc). Where is the date or a trigger event that shows seal One? For me the Holy Spirit is our conquerer against the forces and principalities in the heavenly realm, our helper, thru which we conquer lust, pride, things of this world. That particular seal does not say what this rider is to conquer, but we were told by Jesus He would send us a Helper. I associate most of the "white" things of the Word with goodness. Just like the argument for the Bride references, white equates to purity for me, not anti-Christ stuff.. There are 7 seals and they all do not reference evil. One is a plea of all things (seal 5). One is a proclamation and a request of what not to do. The trigger evnt that opened the Seals? It was the seating at the Right Hand and solving the issue of no one found worthy UNTIL the One who was Slain came into the picture. The Ascension opened the Deed to the Earth. Does not mean ALL the events had to happen at once. The seal opened reveal to us what would begin to happen upon His Worthiness being found. We have tons of threads on the seals. I don't want to derail the topic, but it was mentioned in d4L's post. He and I have had our conversations. He and others know where I used to be on the topic of the end times. What IS the event that truly says to any Christ-follower, "Great TRiB: Here it is. It has started. My vengeance is NOW!" ? I keep falling back on the coming like a thief comment and, I have many a devote follower more concerned over loved ones than the debauchery going on in the world, or what is going in Israel or even the pestilence and earthquakes in high frequency. Earlier in the 2000's there was a concern for one world government. Maybe it will happen yet, but I see a disruption in this pattern at the moment. Rev 12 1,2 seemed to have occurred, so where is the temple? Yes, some things seem to not be exactly lining up to what I have been taught which is the pre-trib 7 year model with a bad thing happening mid 7 years in a temple of God. Especially if this thing with Trump and Bebe is THE thing maybe it will be confirmed later by many. If so, lets start a clock from the day Trump spoke and we should go 3 1/2 years from it when it was proposed. Please understand, things clearly are going on that confirm to me that we are close to physically tabernacling with our Lord. But what if it plays out a way we did not think? what if we keep seeing things that we should not be seeing according to the 7 year model? We have yet to have the 2nd eclipse. Kinda seems important that THAT happens even though it is not stated in Rev, it is a darkening of the sun that makes an X over the only country in the world that proclaims Christ officially. I have no points to make, just rambling on and vocalizing where this fine forum has led me the past 3 years. Barb, I think you are right on several points: 1st) the second eclipse must take place that marks Little Egypt and this is 2024. It appears that we are in the seven years of plenty at this time and 2024 will begin the 7 years of famine. If the timeline is considered then 2017 to 2024 are the seven years of plenty and perhaps that was marked by the great sign on 9/23/17. Also, for me the Rev. 13:18 riddle shows that Francis is the 2nd beast (Rev. 13:11) that has all the power of the 1st (Rev. 13:1) beast. My analysis that shows that Francis is the 266th pope (according to them) and 400 as the claim to be the Savior's church brings us to 666. Thus, Francis who is now 80+ years old will not be viable much longer, perhaps 85 years old in 2024. So for me the year 2024 is quite attractive as the critical year and especially when other factors are considered.
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Post by disciple4life on Mar 4, 2020 17:49:56 GMT -6
Hello, my dear fellow watchmen,
Here are just some thoughts. It's not my intention to challenge you, boraddict , or anyone - I'm just throwing thoughts into the hat. ;-) I see several holes, or problems with the eclipses being the markers. start or finish. It's approximately 7 years, but we have multiple books that give us an exact time line, and these accounts match.
**For the sake of discussion, I realize that some don't believe the Tribulation is 7 years, but we have multiple references of 42 months, 1260 days, and 1290 days [which by the way, is 3 1/2 years by prophetic months, with one extra leap month.] Then, we also have "Time, Times and half a time" - thus 3 1/2 years. Besides these, from Daniel and Revelation, we also have the template of the Hebrew wedding festival. Bride is lifted up and 'concealed' 7 days in the Chupah.
We also have the picture of Joseph who was a type, shadow of Christ, and the famine was 7 years. If I'm not mistaken, it was this very picture of Joseph and the 7 years of plenty, followed y 7 years of famine in the story of Joseph in Geneses, that Pastor Thad uses as his template.
Then, we also have the "week" that Jacob worked for Rachel, only to get Leah. So we have many different 7s *** but not just random occurances of 7, - specifically linked to a wedding, and or tribulation, /famine.
So, my point is that I see the eclipses as Not being markers, either one for the start or the end, for several key reasons.
- One being, that the eclipses are not 7 years apart, they are about 7 years apart. They don't match any of the time frames given above.
- Two, - eclipses are often seen as a sign for gentiles, and their connection to events in history is mind-numbing, but eclipses are not viewed as being signs for Jews. Blood moons - however are a totally totally different animal. Now we're talking. In fact, the Tetrads, when Blood Moons fall exactly on Jewish feasts, -- This is so amazing - it's hard to even grasp, how major events in the History of Israel occurred on Blood moon Tetrads, AND, wait for it . . . Since they already are based on Hebrew/ Prophetic /Lunar calendar , they end up being exactly 7 years, with some leap months added. ***There's a whole other thread on this, but it's the Metonic cycle, and there are 7 leap months added in a 19 month cycle. When you look at the keys on a piano, start counting from Middle C, and the black notes correspond to leap months.
- I know a lot of people don't subscribe to the notion that the feasts are "rehearsals" "shadow of things to come", as Paul said, but the other thing about the eclipses was that neither of them lines up with/ lands on a Feast day.
The eclipses are super interesting. I'm really fascinated with that, and see them as judgement, and the fact that these both go totally across the US, - [which in and of itself is phenomenal, since most are only visible in parts of the US. ] and I believe the fact that it makes an X of Little Egypt is only Divine. I definitely think it's [the 2 total solar eclipses] are a key pieces in the eschatological puzzle, but I'm just not sure how or where they fit in.
The other thought is that with the dividing of God's land, in the coming days, if Netanyahu is confirmed, and the still developing Coronavirus, and the red heifers being of age, and the whole Midddle east - Turkey, Syria, Russia stuff boiling over, I just don't see any way, that we have 4 more years, [of plenty] before the start of 7 years of famine.
Just my 2 cents.
Blessings,
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Post by boraddict on Mar 4, 2020 20:52:43 GMT -6
Hello, my dear fellow watchmen,
Here are just some thoughts. It's not my intention to challenge you, boraddict , or anyone - I'm just throwing thoughts into the hat. ;-) I see several holes, or problems with the eclipses being the markers. start or finish. It's approximately 7 years, but we have multiple books that give us an exact time line, and these accounts match.
**For the sake of discussion, I realize that some don't believe the Tribulation is 7 years, but we have multiple references of 42 months, 1260 days, and 1290 days [which by the way, is 3 1/2 years by prophetic months, with one extra leap month.] Then, we also have "Time, Times and half a time" - thus 3 1/2 years. Besides these, from Daniel and Revelation, we also have the template of the Hebrew wedding festival. Bride is lifted up and 'concealed' 7 days in the Chupah.
We also have the picture of Joseph who was a type, shadow of Christ, and the famine was 7 years. If I'm not mistaken, it was this very picture of Joseph and the 7 years of plenty, followed y 7 years of famine in the story of Joseph in Geneses, that Pastor Thad uses as his template.
Then, we also have the "week" that Jacob worked for Rachel, only to get Leah. So we have many different 7s *** but not just random occurances of 7, - specifically linked to a wedding, and or tribulation, /famine.
So, my point is that I see the eclipses as Not being markers, either one for the start or the end, for several key reasons.
- One being, that the eclipses are not 7 years apart, they are about 7 years apart. They don't match any of the time frames given above.
- Two, - eclipses are often seen as a sign for gentiles, and their connection to events in history is mind-numbing, but eclipses are not viewed as being signs for Jews. Blood moons - however are a totally totally different animal. Now we're talking. In fact, the Tetrads, when Blood Moons fall exactly on Jewish feasts, -- This is so amazing - it's hard to even grasp, how major events in the History of Israel occurred on Blood moon Tetrads, AND, wait for it . . . Since they already are based on Hebrew/ Prophetic /Lunar calendar , they end up being exactly 7 years, with some leap months added. ***There's a whole other thread on this, but it's the Metonic cycle, and there are 7 leap months added in a 19 month cycle. When you look at the keys on a piano, start counting from Middle C, and the black notes correspond to leap months.
- I know a lot of people don't subscribe to the notion that the feasts are "rehearsals" "shadow of things to come", as Paul said, but the other thing about the eclipses was that neither of them lines up with/ lands on a Feast day.
The eclipses are super interesting. I'm really fascinated with that, and see them as judgement, and the fact that these both go totally across the US, - [which in and of itself is phenomenal, since most are only visible in parts of the US. ] and I believe the fact that it makes an X of Little Egypt is only Divine. I definitely think it's [the 2 total solar eclipses] are a key pieces in the eschatological puzzle, but I'm just not sure how or where they fit in.
The other thought is that with the dividing of God's land, in the coming days, if Netanyahu is confirmed, and the still developing Coronavirus, and the red heifers being of age, and the whole Midddle east - Turkey, Syria, Russia stuff boiling over, I just don't see any way, that we have 4 more years, [of plenty] before the start of 7 years of famine.
Just my 2 cents.
Blessings,
disciple4life, I am with you on your eclipse conclusions but the marker I used for the white horse was the Chapter 12 sign that was on 9/23/17. Following is a restatement of my findings: I have seen multitudes of markers one of which landed in 2004, another in 2008 and 2011, etc. However, the 9/23/17 is unmistakably stated in Rev. 12:1-2. At some point I made the connection from Chapter 12 to Chapter 6 that they were stating the exact same events. Thus, the Chapter 12 sign (Rev. 12:1) is the white horse (Rev. 6:1-2) of which the rider is Christ (Rev. 19:11). It follows that the red horse (Rev. 6:3-4) is the action of the dragon which must occur after 9/23/17 and I am convinced that event is the outbreak of the COVID19 on 12/20/2020 the day that the 1st man entered the hospital in China. Since the 144,000 are among those that come out of great tribulation (Rev. 7:4, 9, 14) and the sister chapters of 13 and 14 show that the 144,000 are with Christ (Rev. 14:1) when the beast rises (Rev. 13:1), and the beast rises at the 4th horse (Rev. 6:7-8) then the third and fourth horses must occur at or near the same time. That is, when the beast rises (Rev. 13:1) then the 144 are gathered to Christ (Rev. 14:1); because, the tribulation begins at the rise of the beast (4th horse) and not at the release of the second horse. For clarification, 1) the 144,000 come out of great tribulation (Rev. 7:14) 2) the great tribulation begins with the rise of the beast (Rev. 13:1) 3) therefore the 144,000 that are with Christ (Rev. 14:1) also witness the rise of the beast (Rev. 13:7). 4) However, the third action (Rev. 6:5-6) precedes the fourth action (Rev. 6:7-8); meaning, that when the beast rises (Rev. 13:1) then the 144,000 are with Christ (Rev. 14:1) It is like, the saints were pre-gathered (Rev. 6:5-6) when the beast rises (Rev. 6:7-8) and then they are gone. In conclusion: the white horse (Rev. 6:1-2) is the 9/23/17 (Rev. 12:1-2) great sign, the red horse (Rev. 6:3-4) is the 12/20/19 (Rev. 12:3-4) COVID19. The rider that directs the heavens to provide the great sign (white horse) is Christ (Rev. 19:11), and the rider that directs the consumption of the unclean meat (red horse) is Satan.
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Post by Gary on Mar 10, 2020 10:09:14 GMT -6
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Post by disciple4life on Mar 10, 2020 17:17:41 GMT -6
Thanks for the update, @gary.
I don't think anyone is really surprised that the Jordanian Arabs didn't accept the deal. They have not accepted deals much better than this - and the truth is that they are not interested in Peace or Land. They have a huge country just next door, and they already speak the language, and they most of them - 95% already have Jordanian passports.
Further, they won't accept any other deal in the future. The Deal they want is for all Israelis to be pushed into the sea, but they didn't get God's memo.
Now, the big issue is that Netanyahu doesn't have the votes needed to form a government. So the big question - Will Gantz be given the right to form a government, and will he implement the Deal of the Century, and annex the West Bank. ?? Or will it all just go poof? The entire deal be scrapped.??
watching and waiting .
Maranatha
Disciple4life
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