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Post by boraddict on Dec 11, 2018 0:15:52 GMT -6
Okay Rondon, your analysis is interesting and appears credible. What is your conclusion?
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
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Post by rondonmonson on Dec 11, 2018 1:08:32 GMT -6
Okay Rondon, your analysis is interesting and appears credible. What is your conclusion? That Satan will have everything up and ready to go when the Rapture happens. These countries will have ties so intermingled, that by the time the Anti-Christ comes onto the stage, he will have leverage via trade, benefits being given, etc. etc. The Hebrew word used for CONFIRMED actually means to ACT INSOLENTLY towards someone, it thus would be a FORCED Agreement. I therefore studied Daniel 9:27 and all the important Hebrew root words and it's very interesting indeed. (A little extra below for anyone interested, my old study of Dan. 9:27....ONE VERSE.)Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. 1.) Confirm = gabar 1396 (Hebrew Word) meaning to be strong, to prevail or to act insolently. 2.) Oblation = minchah 4503 (Hebrew) A tribute or an offering 3.) Overspreading = kanaph 3671 (Hebrew) An edge, a Wing or Quarter (of a building) a pinnacle. 4.) Abominations = shiqquwts 8251 (Hebrew) Meaning, Disgusting, Filthy, Idolatrous or AN IDOL !! 5.) Desolate = shamem 8074 (Hebrew) Meaning to Stun, Grow Numb, to Stupefy, or to Devastate !! So looking at these original Hebrew word translations, what is this verse (Daniel 9:27) really telling us ? Does it match up with other end time events ? Let's delve into it !! Basically this is what I get from verse 27. Daniel 9:27 The Anti-Christ will FORCE an Agreement (Covenant means agreement) on Israel and others, seemingly the Muslims/Mediterranean Sea Region Nations, once the Rapture happens and he gains power. He does so insolently, his agenda prevails, he forces this deal via his influence and via binding ties already in place. Then after 3 1/2 years he stops allowing the Oblation or Tribute, by Israel unto their God/Jesus (remember 1/3 repent or turn to Jesus), and other nations gods as well. The False Prophet places an Idol in a Wing or a pinnacle of the Temple and demands all people to worship this Image/Idol or else they must die. This Stuns/Shocks/Devistates Israel, then they heed Jesus' words and Flee unto the Wilderness where they are protected by God for 1260 Days, because Elijah turned them back to the Messiah (Zechariah 12:10 and 13:1) before the Day of the Lord. Daniel 9:27 shorter version........The Anti-Christ will force a Peace Deal on Israel and MANY Nations, in the Middle of this deal he will renege on his agreements, and order the False Prophet to place an Image of the Beast in the Temple, and demand all mankind to worship this Image. This Stuns and devastates Israel. Do further scriptures agree with this account ?
Revelation 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. It seems to fit pretty well.............Long story made short is.............Satan will be ready to go full bore when given the opportunity.
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Post by boraddict on Dec 11, 2018 4:18:08 GMT -6
Thanks Rondon. So the dates that you have provided are showing a start date of 2020 for the tribulation or 2023.5?
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 11, 2018 9:19:17 GMT -6
I understand what you are saying. My oldest daughter is a vegan... not only is she vegan but I call her militant vegan. She leads a group in the Houston/Galveston area called Voice for the Voiceless. Although I commend her compassion, I feel it is misguided as we have had many deep discussions on Romans 1 etc (loving the creation more than loving God). I have made several comments about her group being the 1st ones to protest the sacrifices once they begin because of them being barbaric. I get that all of that... I have tried to guide her in the direction that we no longer need atonement for sin through the blood of bulls & goats & that Jesus was the once & for all sacrifice. (Hebrews 9 & 10). The group claim is that it is cruel to the animals. I see it more of an opportunity to talk about our once & for all final sacrifice... our beloved hope we have in Jesus Christ. I do support this but only in my limited understanding that God knows the end from the beginning and declared that these things would happen & therefor I look for His imminent return as we watch these things taking place. I guess my question(s) would be: Should we be trying to stop these sacrifices? Would we be joining those aligned with the antichrist if we did?
Great questions bondservant because much of Christianity today has made this pretty unclear or are in full support of the temple, sacrifices, and judaism to the point of supporting it monetarily. Whole churches and congregations do this. Shame on them because they do it believing this will also bring Jesus back again and that this is the temple He will reside in once he returns. To clarify whether this would be antichrist or not to try and stop or be unsupportive of physical sacrifices and temple, lets look at what John defines as antichrist in 1 John:
"3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world."
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
Second John:
7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
Strongs definition: 500 antíxristos (from 473 /antí, "opposite to, in place of" and 5547 /Xristós, "Christ") – properly, opposite to Christ; someone acting in place of (against) Christ; "Antichrist." Those of the Sanhedrin, religion of Judaism, and those in support of it are
-Claiming to be or acknowledging/supporting that Judaism, Jews, Jerusalem, and the entire nation of Israel are the true light of the world because they only know the true way to God.
-The light of the nations
-That all nations will learn and accept that they are the true light and way to God
-They are the only way to the Messiah and are responsible for ushering him in
So is it antichrist to support this or condone it and not support it? By the definition John gives above, the answer should be clear.
It is not just the religion of Judaism that is claiming to know the way to save and help the world and are the true ones and ways of God, while the RCC claims God submits to the Popes because they are direct descendants of Christ and their ways are so holy and good. Judaism is trying to replace Christ and the RCC is claiming to be Christ. Both religions are antichrist and blasphemy of the true Lord and Savior.
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Post by kjs on Dec 11, 2018 9:24:41 GMT -6
Thanks, bondservant. I think I read on the Temple Institute site that they claim the location of the ark is known but they aren't revealing the location. A group of us from church get together once a month for a Prophecy Study Group & the last one we did was on the location of the Ark. At the end we all voted and it ended up in a tie between the Church in Africa being talked about now: www.foxnews.com/science/sorry-indiana-jones-the-ark-of-the-covenant-is-not-inside-this-ethiopian-church(what if the 1 on display was a decoy?) & www.arkdiscovery.com/aoc-1.htm(interesting theory about the blood of Jesus actually dripping onto the mercy seat) ...things that make you go hmmmmm. I am literally up in the air over Ron Wyatt claims.....
On one hand -- it "sends goose-bumps" up my spine -- Because I know without a doubt the God is so powerful -- that He could, indeed cause the Ark of Convent with it's mercy seat to placed in such a way that the Blood of His Son; Jesus Christ would drip down upon the mercy seat!
On the other hand; there is no evidence (except some blurred pictures, some dark black scrappings) -- No One else has actually seen the items described within the video. There has been no other video made; and one statement from Ron; that "they" (assume they are Israel authorities) moved it.
My heart wants to believe it is all true and that it really did occur exactly how Ron, describe it happening......
But my head must acknowledge; it is possible a human man stretched the truth to make a name for themselves.....
It has been over 30 years; this claim has been floating around out there .... so it appears it might just be a claim......
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
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Post by rondonmonson on Dec 11, 2018 11:55:22 GMT -6
Thanks Rondon. So the dates that you have provided are showing a start date of 2020 for the tribulation or 2023.5? No, I don't set dates, Jesus doesn't even know the day that the Father will send him, no man should ever do anything as per dates, except point to "THE SEASON" that we are in. I am just pointing towards a process that will be IN PLACE when the Rapture happens and this Man of Sin comes forth. Remember, if he CONFIRMS/Forces a deal it's probably a new deal in which they are forced by this Anti-Christ to give their "security" over to the European Union. They will trust this man for some reason or either he threatens them with some kind of backlash like not being able to trade with Europe etc. The ties that bind are in place in other words, the Anti-Christ will force changes to get tactical advantages, get everyone to sign off on this agreement and then after 3.5 years he of course reneges on all of his agreements.
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Post by Natalie on Dec 11, 2018 12:50:14 GMT -6
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 11, 2018 13:08:11 GMT -6
What happens if the ark is found or the significance of it?
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Post by fitz on Dec 11, 2018 13:23:47 GMT -6
"Jesus doesn't even know the day that the Father will send him "I think it's incorrect to think that Jesus doesn't currently know the day. Jesus is God. While He may not have known the information on the day He spoke this to His disciples, still in a body of flesh, still having set aside some attributes of His divine nature; He has since ascended to the Father and is seated at His right hand. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are One. They share all information. Jesus most certainly DOES know the day at this moment. Today, I see this verse get bandied about incessantly. Besides people using it as a bludgeon to beat down our brothers and sisters who set dates (which you did not do), they fail to understand the nature of Christ when He walked on this earth, and the nature of Christ, now glorified and seated in heaven. To say He doesn't know is to say that He is somehow less than God. Not beating you up, Ron, just asserting clearly that Jesus is God. !00% omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.
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Post by mike on Dec 11, 2018 13:27:40 GMT -6
Will said fitz. I had a similar thought process and reaction, but you said it much better than I would have
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rondonmonson
Truth Seeker
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me....
Posts: 186
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Post by rondonmonson on Dec 11, 2018 14:34:48 GMT -6
"Jesus doesn't even know the day that the Father will send him "I think it's incorrect to think that Jesus doesn't currently know the day. Jesus is God. While He may not have known the information on the day He spoke this to His disciples, still in a body of flesh, still having set aside some attributes of His divine nature; He has since ascended to the Father and is seated at His right hand. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are One. They share all information. Jesus most certainly DOES know the day at this moment. Today, I see this verse get bandied about incessantly. Besides people using it as a bludgeon to beat down our brothers and sisters who set dates (which you did not do), they fail to understand the nature of Christ when He walked on this earth, and the nature of Christ, now glorified and seated in heaven. To say He doesn't know is to say that He is somehow less than God. Not beating you up, Ron, just asserting clearly that Jesus is God. !00% omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. In the Jewish Wedding the Bridegroom never knows the day nor the hour, it's the father that sends the Bridegroom to get the Bride. Thus like the Jewish father, God the Father will decide when to send Jesus. Jesus knows the future I am sure, but the Father alone decides when He will send the Son/Bridegroom. The Bride is thus expectant, but yet surprised. The Rapture (when Jesus comes for the Church) is not the Second Coming, Jesus will know when the Beast comes to power that he will return to earth in 1260 days. Revelation 1:1 points out a couple of things that back this up. Although I am not 100 percent sure about the first point which is that God gave the Revelation to Jesus Christ, that could just mean the Godhead/Trinity brought forth this Revelation, which is how I always took it. Surely Jesus knows the future as well as God, they are all eternal and thus live in all time at once. Nevertheless, God the Father can make a decision that only He knows as per the timing, Jesus can know what is going to come to pass, but not the exact day nor hour. JMHO. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: In Rev. 1:1 the fact that many people say Jesus states he will be coming back shortly and thus they derive an Eschatology that I see as a little off kilter because they actually believe that is what Jesus stated, even though intuitively we are supposed to know that only the Father knows the time of Jesus' return. So this needed further study. I thus found that the word SHORTLY was derived from 2 Greek words as per the translation. One Greek word was EN and basically means "at a fixed point in time" the other Greek word was TACHOS and means "speedily/swiftly or in haste". I say all that to say this, it matters how we interpret or translate the words from the bible. Now instead of this saying Jesus will come shortly, what it actually says is this, "At a fixed point in time, Jesus will come speedily" in other words, Jesus is saying, at a future point in time, unknown by me, the Father will send me and I will come in haste. One needs to study the Jewish Wedding Pattern to find out why this is important as per only the Father knows the day and hour. I will insert a few for brevity's sake. 8 – The Groom would prepare a room for the Bride in his father’s house Church - John 14:3 – “I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself.” The father of the groom determines when the room is ready. The groom does not determine the time of the wedding. “But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” (Matthew 24:36) 9 – The Bride is consecrated and set apart Church - First Peter 2:9 – “But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people.” 10 – The Groom returns with a shout, “Behold, the bridegroom comes!” Church - First Thessalonians 4:16 – “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.” Let me insert an additional hope at this point. When the Lord Jesus comes for His Bride, the Church, we will not be totally surprised. Although the Jewish bride did not know the day or the hour, she was expectant. The Apostle Paul in speaking of “that Day” said, “But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day.” (First Thessalonians 5:4-5) Today, many in the Church are expectant and will not be totally surprised. 11 – The Bride and Groom go to the wedding chamber. Church – This period when the Bride and Groom spend time together seems to show that the Bride of Jesus will be with Him in Heaven. This appears to indicate a pre-Tribulation gathering of the Church, and is described in Isaiah 26:20; “Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.” All I can go by brothers/sisters is what Jesus stated, we can assume this or that, but I like to go by the scriptures when I can, and it also fits the Wedding Pattern Jesus spoke in parables about unto his disciples. You might be right, but we are not told Jesus knows the hour nor day, we are told a parable in which the Bridegroom is unaware, and the parable is about Jesus returning for the Church. So I have to go with Jesus doesn't know the day nor hour, even though I think it was negligible to whatever point I was making there. God the Father, God the Redeemer and God the Holy Spirit are all three alike in makeup (Love, Hope, Peace, Kindness, Joy etc. etc) but each have different offices. God the Father has the ABUNDANCE of the Glory, God the Redeemer is of course our redeemer and God the Holy Spirit is our helpmate/comforter. We couldn't come into the presence of the Glory of God lest we die. Whereas Jesus is in the midst of us whenever we are gathered in his name. The Holy Spirit lives in our hearts. God the Father could not live in a man's heart, the Glory would be too much. I don't even know why I made this last point...he he....God Bless.
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Post by fitz on Dec 11, 2018 15:47:35 GMT -6
Yep, I see all that. I'm big on telling folks about the Jewish Wedding tradition that has a close parallel with the pre-trib rapture. But, in this case, I have a hard time setting aside the omniscience of Jesus for the sake of a metaphor.
While the Jewish Wedding tradition can be instructional, I don't think we can use it to help define doctrine. Jesus proved His omniscience many times (i.e. He knew Peter would deny Him 3 times in advance) Obviously, in some matters, He chose to set them aside (at that time). We like to use the this Jewish Wedding tradition as a teaching tool, and I think it's appropriate to do so, but Jesus never taught it Himself. The parallels are unmistakable, but you can't use them to say that Jesus is not omniscient.
Remember, Jesus also told Philip that He and the Father are One. (Paraphrase) "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father". The Father and the Son have different offices, but omniscience is a shared character trait.
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Post by boraddict on Dec 12, 2018 8:35:49 GMT -6
What happens if the ark is found or the significance of it? Like I mentioned in a previous posting, Ron Wyatt located the Ark of the Covenant. His authority to do so was via the Antiquities Dept. in Israel although they have denied ever knowing Wyatt. Ron said they had to distance themselves from him in order to give less credibility to his work. However, when an artifact that he had found and gave to them was stolen, then they paid $200,000 to recover it. That is, if they paid $200,000 to recover a stolen temple item that Wyatt had found, then they surely knew Ron Wyatt. The government of Turkey and Saudi Arabia knew him and perhaps Egypt as well due to his discoveries in those countries. So, the govt. of Israel knows exactly where the Arc of the Covenant is because Ron Wyatt told them where it is. They sent 6 men into that cave and they were all killed. Afterwards, they were scared to go into the caves near the Arc and contacted Ron to recover those bodies. This story is squashed by the Israeli Govt. but is told via Michael Rood and others who asked Wyatt; to which Wyatt was hesitant to discuss. However, he said as I recall and is somewhere in the cloud that he took an ambulance litter and laid it beside the body and rolled the body onto it. Then those outside the cave pulled a rope to drag the litter out of the cave. At times he would need to steady the body or place it back on the litter if it rolled off. He did this for each of the six men that died in the cave. No one except Wyatt has seen the Ark of the Covenant in the cave. He took photographs that came out bury. Then, last of all he took a video of the cave and items in the cave including the Ark of the Covenant. He viewed the video at his hotel room and it was clear with everything on it. Then he took the video back into the cave and left it there on a ledge near the Ark to come forth as some future date. All this information is on his videos on u-tube and so forth. It appears that the Ark of the Covenant is God's undeniable proof that Lord Jesus gave his life for mankind. It is the very throne of God on this earth and will be placed in his holy temple.
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Post by stormyknight on Dec 12, 2018 9:42:31 GMT -6
The Father and the Son have different offices, but omniscience is a shared character trait. This is something our human brains are only scratching the surface of, 'seeing through a dark glass'. I've pondered it many times and you, fitz , and rondonmonson , both bring out things that we need to know and remember. The Son experienced being beaten, mocked, and tortured and the Father experienced having to watch his ONLY begotten Son go through it. The Holy Spirit within both got to experience both, so we, who are imbued with the Holy Spirit, are more able to learn both humility and compassion without resentment and anger. Having said that, I can see both the Father and Son knowing when the time is right for the Son to go and retrieve His Bride, but it is the Father's prerogative to say 'go' and the Son not knowing when He will.
rondonmonson , I have been trying to better understand what was actually said/written in the original texts and getting a better feel for what was meant. Not everything translates well into English, and I have to take a step back from those who say 'use only this text, or don't use those books'. How are we to discern the truth if we don't use every resource available? The Holy Spirit removes the scales/blinders from our eyes, does it not? And in so doing, we are better able to see the mistakes and errors that are most definitely there in any translation.
Also, to @gary, thank you for the article. I am an impatient one. Some significant thing happens and I get my hopes up that the Rapture is 'the next thing to happen', and then it doesn't and time passes. Then something significant happens, and the cycle repeats. It definitely is a roller coaster ride of emotions. I know these things must happen, but we are not able to see just how some are going to be fulfilled, speculate as we might. And then when something does come to pass that fits the prophecies, I am like, 'aww, why didn't we see that? It makes perfect sense'. I'm sure we will all look back and laugh at ourselves when we're all together humbly basking in the Glory of our Redeemer.
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 12, 2018 9:58:15 GMT -6
boraddictHow is the ark proof of Jesus giving his life for mankind? Where in the Bible is this stated or related to the ark? Why do we need physical proof of this? Isn’t the word of God enough? Isn’t that what faith and hope is supposed to be? The greatest hope and faith is in the things unseen as Paul said several times. The ark was designed to hold the original tablets with the Ten Commandments written on them by God given to Moses. God has not dwelled in any man made temple, Holy of holies or ark since the first temple. The purpose of the veil being torn at Christ Crucifixion and exposing the innermost part of the temple was to show exactly that! An empty Holy of holies. God wasn’t in the temple, He was at that moment nailed on the cross. Where in any of the Bible does it say the ark will be placed in the temple or that God will reside in a physical man made building or that the ark is considered his throne? There is theory that is what the temple referred to in Revelation is meaning and Ezekiel’s temple description. However upon close inspection of Ezekiel’s description, you might find several things different and or missing of a physical temple building. It is a good study to do and compare to the original temple requirements and design given to Moses. We are the temple of God, and His Holy Spirit dwells with us right now. Our hearts are the ark as God has placed his law in our hearts. The ark was a physical representation of what was to come later when the Holy Spirit came after Jesus ascended to Heaven and now dwells within us. We know right and wrong because God’s law is everywhere we go. We do not have to go to a temple or ark to double check a list and making sure we are getting it right. We do not nor does the rest of mankind need physical proof of Jesus dying on the cross. Not trying to give you a hard time by any means Bora, just please think about this.
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