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Post by boraddict on Apr 20, 2019 11:39:07 GMT -6
When i was a little kid in the early 70's i can still remember this song playing on the AM radio in my parents car. It was a top ten hit on the charts. It made it up to #2. Probably not too much chance of something like that happening now while we're in the falling away. Put Your Hand in the HandPut your hand in the hand of the man who stilled the water Put your hand in the hand of the man who calmed the sea Take a look at yourself and you can look at others differently By puttin' your hand in the hand of the man from Galilee Every time I look into the Holy Book I want to tremble (tremble) Or when I read about the part where the carpenter cleared the temple (temple) For the buyers and the sellers were no different fellas than what I profess to be And it causes me shame to know we're not the people we should be So, put your hand in the hand of the man who stilled the water Put your hand in the hand of the man who calmed the sea Take a look at yourself and you can look at others differently By puttin' your hand in the hand of the man from Galilee My mama taught me how to pray before I reached the age of seven She said, "there'll come a time when there'll probably be room in heaven" But I'm feeling kinda guilty 'bout the number of times to do what we must do But we forget what he said, then we figure that he'll still make room So, you gotta put your hand in the hand of the man who stilled the water Put your hand in the hand of the man who calmed the sea Take a look at yourself and you can look at others differently By puttin' your hand in the hand of the man from Galilee Everybody come along Put your hand in the hand of the man who stilled the water (Who stilled the water) Put your hand in the hand of the man who calmed the sea (Who calmed the sea) Take a look at yourself and you can look at Songwriters: GENE MACLELLAN Thanks to the Man from Galilee, For a Peaceful Sabbath. Thank you for reminding me of that song.
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Post by mike on Apr 20, 2019 12:31:37 GMT -6
thanks for sharing your understanding of Jer 28 jamie - not really what I was getting at, sometimes I have trouble getting the thoughts in my head out on to the screen.
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Post by boraddict on Apr 20, 2019 12:35:22 GMT -6
Not to crash the party but Rev. 13 is clearly about a beast and then another beast (two beasts). However, the second beast has two horns (areas of leadership authority). 11, "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon." 1) one horn represents that of a lamb (Christ) 2) one horn represents that of a dragon (Satan) Thus, the second beast has authority like Christ, and like Satan. This looks like Francis to me or someone supporting Christianity. The role of this second beast, as Satan, is outlined in Verses 13:12-17 that the economic system functions only for those whom take the mark of the beast. Conversely, the role of this second beast, as Christ, is outlined in Verses 13:5-8 that he (the second beast) speaks for the first beast as Christ speaks for God the Father. Thus the question in Verse 13:4 "Who is like unto the beast, who is able to make war with him?" Because, the first beast is considered to be like God on earth having his Christ (the second beast) speaking for him. This means that the first beast is someone whom is like Satan having his "power like God" (v. 13:2) from Satan, his "seat like Christ" from Satan, and his "great authority like the Holy Ghost" from Satan. Thus, the first beast and the second beast are working together; however, the second beast is the one who is running the show as the Christ of Satan. This seems to indicate that the first beast is Satan himself; perhaps incarnate. Nevertheless, as the Christ of Satan then who can make war with Satan? Who can make war with his Christ? As you can see this is clearly religious and since the mark of this beast is the mark of Satan and only those with the mark of Satan can function in the world economy that is an extremely powerful economic position, then the beast and his Christ must have economic power over the world. Chapter 14 is the rebuttal to Chapter 13.
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Post by venge on Apr 20, 2019 13:28:43 GMT -6
Not to crash the party but Rev. 13 is clearly about a beast and then another beast (two beasts). However, the second beast has two horns (areas of leadership authority). 11, "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon." 1) one horn represents that of a lamb (Christ) 2) one horn represents that of a dragon (Satan) Thus, the second beast has authority like Christ, and like Satan. This looks like Francis to me or someone supporting Christianity. The role of this second beast, as Satan, is outlined in Verses 13:12-17 that the economic system functions only for those whom take the mark of the beast. Conversely, the role of this second beast, as Christ, is outlined in Verses 13:5-8 that he (the second beast) speaks for the first beast as Christ speaks for God the Father. Thus the question in Verse 13:4 "Who is like unto the beast, who is able to make war with him?" Because, the first beast is considered to be like God on earth having his Christ (the second beast) speaking for him. This means that the first beast is someone whom is like Satan having his "power like God" (v. 13:2) from Satan, his "seat like Christ" from Satan, and his "great authority like the Holy Ghost" from Satan. Thus, the first beast and the second beast are working together; however, the second beast is the one who is running the show as the Christ of Satan. This seems to indicate that the first beast is Satan himself; perhaps incarnate. Nevertheless, as the Christ of Satan then who can make war with Satan? Who can make war with his Christ? As you can see this is clearly religious and since the mark of this beast is the mark of Satan and only those with the mark of Satan can function in the world economy that is an extremely powerful economic position, then the beast and his Christ must have economic power over the world. Chapter 14 is the rebuttal to Chapter 13. Bora, Please provide me with scripture that shows the 2 horns are separate and each is identified with what you claim. The 2nd beast is identified as a horn with the eyes of a man. The second beast is never identified as Satan himself. Now I will say this with love, I am not trying to upset you or anyone...the scripture you quoted is far fetched in reaching your conclusions. You stated that Rev 13:5-8 shows that the second beast speaks to the first just like Christ does to his Father? I don't see that one bit from these verses. Its just opinion based, but not scriptural. The verses demonstrate what the second beast does. It does not demonstrate that 1 of 2 horns on the lamb represent anything. None of the text states such. In order to agree to the horns meaning something other then strength and power, you would have to show me scripturally outside Revelation because it does not exists IN Revelation otherwise it would have said so in the context of the verses. The ONLY way I can see the horns meaning something, and this is not even scriptual, but if we were to look at the Ram that had 2 horns in Dan 8:22, when the ram that represented 2 nations into 1 alliance, we see that the goat that horn broke was split into 4 horns representing 4 nations. The Beast of the earth is a man and technically could imply 2 horns that as he comes in, as the beast kingdom is 1 kingdom, when the beast of the earth enters and takes over it becomes 2 kingdoms. 1 kingdom for each horn. The only reason I could even fathom this radical idea which I dont support is because then you could say that this would back up Daniel 11 when the North fights against the south as before the beast of the earth steps in, the North and the South were most likely 1. Just my thought. Still it is all guessing.
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Post by mike on Apr 20, 2019 15:23:52 GMT -6
thanks for sharing your understanding of Jer 28 jamie - not really what I was getting at, sometimes I have trouble getting the thoughts in my head out on to the screen. Nebuchadnezzar's yoke of iron helps us identify the anti-Christ. You would be surprise the evidence I've come up with.Please by all means, I'd love to hear it. I am not locked into one specific view on end times. I consider them (mostly) all possible as most do make good arguments. Start a new thread. Take your time, present your case. Be prepared for a lot of questions, a few doubting Thomases, and some dissent. 😀
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Post by venge on Apr 20, 2019 15:36:01 GMT -6
Two horns like a lamb simply means two sects similar to Christ-ianity. A horn is figurative of strength and the Sunni and Shia sects of Islam ARE its strenght. If we can't think and associate this 'false prophet' and his false religion outside of the scriptures we limit ourselves in understanding it.
Yes, but as I said, where is the scripture to support this about the horns being 2 different things?
Islam is the perfect counterfeit of Christianity! It has a false God Allah, a false prophet Muhammad, a false book the Koran, a false returning messiah called the Mahdi, a false self fulfilling prophetic scenario, and an anti-christ called the dajjal.
I agree Islam is a perfect counterfeit but so is a false Christianity.
The two horned beast is NOT the anti-Christ, it's the false prophet. The false prophet could be Muhammad, but I tend to believe it's an Imam or other evil end-time Islamic cleric. The text does NOT say this beast is made to look like Christ.
Well, that is where we differ. My research shows the beast of the earth is the anti Christ and the AC is the false prophet in 1 person. Show me that they are 2 and I will show you they are one. You are correct, the text does not say the beast is made to look like Christ, but the beast modeled after a lamb per Revelation just as Christ was modeled after a lamb that was slain which is similar and scriptural. We also know that lambs were gentle, they are not carnivores like lions. That is why this lamb is odd because it is not gentle, its speaks as a dragon. I would say it is understood by most commentators and readers of the Bible that the False prophet is understood to take on the personification of Christ because of this 2 horned lamb being gentle, doing miracles. Take a look at this commentary from Bibluehub
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Post by boraddict on Apr 20, 2019 22:45:56 GMT -6
Not to crash the party but Rev. 13 is clearly about a beast and then another beast (two beasts). However, the second beast has two horns (areas of leadership authority). 11, "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon." 1) one horn represents that of a lamb (Christ) 2) one horn represents that of a dragon (Satan) Thus, the second beast has authority like Christ, and like Satan. This looks like Francis to me or someone supporting Christianity. The role of this second beast, as Satan, is outlined in Verses 13:12-17 that the economic system functions only for those whom take the mark of the beast. Conversely, the role of this second beast, as Christ, is outlined in Verses 13:5-8 that he (the second beast) speaks for the first beast as Christ speaks for God the Father. Thus the question in Verse 13:4 "Who is like unto the beast, who is able to make war with him?" Because, the first beast is considered to be like God on earth having his Christ (the second beast) speaking for him. This means that the first beast is someone whom is like Satan having his "power like God" (v. 13:2) from Satan, his "seat like Christ" from Satan, and his "great authority like the Holy Ghost" from Satan. Thus, the first beast and the second beast are working together; however, the second beast is the one who is running the show as the Christ of Satan. This seems to indicate that the first beast is Satan himself; perhaps incarnate. Nevertheless, as the Christ of Satan then who can make war with Satan? Who can make war with his Christ? As you can see this is clearly religious and since the mark of this beast is the mark of Satan and only those with the mark of Satan can function in the world economy that is an extremely powerful economic position, then the beast and his Christ must have economic power over the world. Chapter 14 is the rebuttal to Chapter 13. Bora, Please provide me with scripture that shows the 2 horns are separate and each is identified with what you claim. The 2nd beast is identified as a horn with the eyes of a man. The second beast is never identified as Satan himself. Now I will say this with love, I am not trying to upset you or anyone...the scripture you quoted is far fetched in reaching your conclusions. You stated that Rev 13:5-8 shows that the second beast speaks to the first just like Christ does to his Father? I don't see that one bit from these verses. Its just opinion based, but not scriptural. The verses demonstrate what the second beast does. It does not demonstrate that 1 of 2 horns on the lamb represent anything. None of the text states such. In order to agree to the horns meaning something other then strength and power, you would have to show me scripturally outside Revelation because it does not exists IN Revelation otherwise it would have said so in the context of the verses. The ONLY way I can see the horns meaning something, and this is not even scriptual, but if we were to look at the Ram that had 2 horns in Dan 8:22, when the ram that represented 2 nations into 1 alliance, we see that the goat that horn broke was split into 4 horns representing 4 nations. The Beast of the earth is a man and technically could imply 2 horns that as he comes in, as the beast kingdom is 1 kingdom, when the beast of the earth enters and takes over it becomes 2 kingdoms. 1 kingdom for each horn. The only reason I could even fathom this radical idea which I dont support is because then you could say that this would back up Daniel 11 when the North fights against the south as before the beast of the earth steps in, the North and the South were most likely 1. Just my thought. Still it is all guessing. Venge, a Ram is not a Lamb. One is an adult male sheep and the other is young child sheep; a sheep with no horns. Revelation 13:11 states: "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon." That is, the beast came up from the sea of mankind having two horns of leadership authority; one being "like a lamb" (a child sheep with no horns) and the other "as a dragon." Please consider Daniel 7:25 in which " he shall speak great words against the most high and shall wear out the saints of the Most High." This links to Rev. 13:5-7 in which the mouth of the beast that is " he" of Dan. 7:25 " speaks great things" (Rev. 13:5) " in blasphemy against God" (Rev. 13:6) and "overcomes" the saints of God (Rev. 13:7). This evidence proves that "he" of Dan. 7:25 is the mouth of Rev. 13:5-7. Further, since "he" of Dan. 7:25 links to Dan. 7:8, and the "eyes like the eyes of a man" that are not the eyes of a prophet but the eyes of a false prophet that can only see as a man sees and not as a prophet of God sees, and the "mouth speaking great things" are the great words of the "mouth" of the little horn, then the little horn (Dan. 7:8) has "in this horn" a false prophet "like a lamb" but not really a lamb, and a "mouth speaking great things" and these are the two positions of authority as stated in Revelation 13:11. Thus, the evidence shows that the little horn has within him the role of the false prophet and the role of the dragon. Thus, this beast of Revelation 13:11 is a false prophet and a devil.
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Post by venge on Apr 21, 2019 12:38:32 GMT -6
Bora, Please provide me with scripture that shows the 2 horns are separate and each is identified with what you claim. The 2nd beast is identified as a horn with the eyes of a man. The second beast is never identified as Satan himself. Now I will say this with love, I am not trying to upset you or anyone...the scripture you quoted is far fetched in reaching your conclusions. You stated that Rev 13:5-8 shows that the second beast speaks to the first just like Christ does to his Father? I don't see that one bit from these verses. Its just opinion based, but not scriptural. The verses demonstrate what the second beast does. It does not demonstrate that 1 of 2 horns on the lamb represent anything. None of the text states such. In order to agree to the horns meaning something other then strength and power, you would have to show me scripturally outside Revelation because it does not exists IN Revelation otherwise it would have said so in the context of the verses. The ONLY way I can see the horns meaning something, and this is not even scriptual, but if we were to look at the Ram that had 2 horns in Dan 8:22, when the ram that represented 2 nations into 1 alliance, we see that the goat that horn broke was split into 4 horns representing 4 nations. The Beast of the earth is a man and technically could imply 2 horns that as he comes in, as the beast kingdom is 1 kingdom, when the beast of the earth enters and takes over it becomes 2 kingdoms. 1 kingdom for each horn. The only reason I could even fathom this radical idea which I dont support is because then you could say that this would back up Daniel 11 when the North fights against the south as before the beast of the earth steps in, the North and the South were most likely 1. Just my thought. Still it is all guessing. Venge, a Ram is not a Lamb. One is an adult male sheep and the other is young child sheep; a sheep with no horns. Revelation 13:11 states: "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon." That is, the beast came up from the sea of mankind having two horns of leadership authority; one being "like a lamb" (a child sheep with no horns) and the other "as a dragon." Please consider Daniel 7:25 in which " he shall speak great words against the most high and shall wear out the saints of the Most High." This links to Rev. 13:5-7 in which the mouth of the beast that is " he" of Dan. 7:25 " speaks great things" (Rev. 13:5) " in blasphemy against God" (Rev. 13:6) and "overcomes" the saints of God (Rev. 13:7). This evidence proves that "he" of Dan. 7:25 is the mouth of Rev. 13:5-7. Further, since "he" of Dan. 7:25 links to Dan. 7:8, and the "eyes like the eyes of a man" that are not the eyes of a prophet but the eyes of a false prophet that can only see as a man sees and not as a prophet of God sees, and the "mouth speaking great things" are the great words of the "mouth" of the little horn, then the little horn (Dan. 7:8) has "in this horn" a false prophet "like a lamb" but not really a lamb, and a "mouth speaking great things" and these are the two positions of authority as stated in Revelation 13:11. Thus, the evidence shows that the little horn has within him the role of the false prophet and the role of the dragon. Thus, this beast of Revelation 13:11 is a false prophet and a devil. I was not inferring that a lamb is a ram. I suggested that Jamie was Referencing the ram because of the symbolism of its 2 horns meaning 2 different nations. I was trying to understand her thought process and where she was going with it. You ref. the beast of the earth and said he comes up out of the sea? Yet the text states the beast comes out of the earth. I don't see any split in the horns. I don't see the text state that. Neither does the description in Daniel say or elude to that. I agree the "he" in Daniel is the mouth of the Beast. I have written on that many times in this site in the distant past. I don't see in your description 2 separate entities as you put forth with the scripture you gave. I do agree the beast of the earth is the false prophet and a devil. And Sadaam Huseein was a man and a devil. Hitler was a man and a devil. And many men throughout the ages have had a devil. Daniel is very specific when he says there are 4 kingdoms. There are 4 Kings. Can you show me the Anti-Christ in Revelation? With scripture copied and pasted here. Not chapter and verse but scripture. helps me to read it rather then me looking everything up.
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Post by canada on Apr 22, 2019 15:00:10 GMT -6
Jamie has stated ... "Catholicism is NOT false religion." He also stated: "What scriptural evidence is there that Rome or the Vatican is the beast?" Have you not heard of the reformation?
The language of The Church Of Rome is ... Latin. (hint) ... It's six original numbers are 1 V X L C D ... their sum is ... 666
(hint) ... a meaning of the word primate is ... "beast". A title of the pope is The Primate of Rome. He is the beast of Revelation.
Each and every pope claims to be ... The Vicar Of Christ.
A meaning of vicar or vicarious is ... "in place of" or "instead of". He is claiming to be "in place of Christ".
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2 Thess 3-4
He and his followers receive and display a mark on their right hand and forehead. Rev 13 Evidence presented.
Where it says, Let no man deceive you, that includes you and I
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Post by kjs on Apr 22, 2019 15:29:12 GMT -6
When i was a little kid in the early 70's i can still remember this song playing on the AM radio in my parents car. It was a top ten hit on the charts. It made it up to #2. Probably not too much chance of something like that happening now while we're in the falling away. Put Your Hand in the HandPut your hand in the hand of the man who stilled the water Put your hand in the hand of the man who calmed the sea Take a look at yourself and you can look at others differently By puttin' your hand in the hand of the man from Galilee Every time I look into the Holy Book I want to tremble (tremble) Or when I read about the part where the carpenter cleared the temple (temple) For the buyers and the sellers were no different fellas than what I profess to be And it causes me shame to know we're not the people we should be So, put your hand in the hand of the man who stilled the water Put your hand in the hand of the man who calmed the sea Take a look at yourself and you can look at others differently By puttin' your hand in the hand of the man from Galilee My mama taught me how to pray before I reached the age of seven She said, "there'll come a time when there'll probably be room in heaven" But I'm feeling kinda guilty 'bout the number of times to do what we must do But we forget what he said, then we figure that he'll still make room So, you gotta put your hand in the hand of the man who stilled the water Put your hand in the hand of the man who calmed the sea Take a look at yourself and you can look at others differently By puttin' your hand in the hand of the man from Galilee Everybody come along Put your hand in the hand of the man who stilled the water (Who stilled the water) Put your hand in the hand of the man who calmed the sea (Who calmed the sea) Take a look at yourself and you can look at Songwriters: GENE MACLELLAN Thanks to the Man from Galilee, For a Peaceful Sabbath.
I too remember that Song ... and you are most likely correct .... if someone tried to release that song now days -- either it would not get much play .... or there would be huge protests -- saying put it on a Christian Station.....
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Post by kjs on Apr 22, 2019 16:22:46 GMT -6
kjs said, Why do you say I scream and shout? I use larger font because my eyesight is bad, and sometimes cap things for emphasis.
I defend the people enslaved in Islam too, especially women and children. The people that follow Islam are often forced to follow it under the threat of apostasy. I don't hate Muslim's. I hate Islam. Fanatical followers of Islam murdered my friends maid of honor and James Foley a NH native. I'm not doing any different attributing all the evils of the last days to Islam than someone who attributes them to Rome and Catholicism. Some people even attribute ALL the evils of the last days to, "the apostate Church." The statement about Mid-East Muslim's waving AK-47's is absolutely true. I think you're too use to watching the censored liberal media. Yes there are peaceful Muslims but they aren't true Muslims! Islam began by converting people by the sword! I can give you a brief history of how Muhammadanism began if you like to prove my point. In Islam...
If you were to confess that Jesus is the Son of God, you'd be committing the most egregious and only unforgivable sin ("shirk") in Muhammad's religion.
You would be committing a sin even worse than child rape or murder if you were to confess that Jesus is the Son of God. Thus Muslims must believe that each and every Christian, for the last 2,000 years, has committed the ONLY unpardonable sin.
Death Penalty for Blasphemy
The death penalty for blasphemy by statute is of course perfectly consistent with the death penalty for "apostasy" by statute, of many OIC Islamic countries today, in the cradle of Muhammad's anti-religion. That is, Muslim State's statutes providing for the murder of their own formerly Muslim citizens, who come to know the love of the one true God through a relationship with Jesus Christ. The following lists the penalty in some OIC member States for "blasphemy", or what we in the west used to know as free speech. A small sampling of Islamic countries' penalty for "blasphemy."
Afghanistan (member OIC) - death penalty (Organization of the Islamic Conference) Algeria (member OIC) - 10 years of imprisonment and a fine
Bangladesh - so far, "Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina rejected calls for new laws.....demanding death penalty for people involved in blasphemy."
Egypt (member OIC) - death penalty
Kuwait (member OIC) - death penalty
Nigeria - "Nigeria prohibits blasphemy by section 204 of its Criminal Code and by permitting Sharia courts to operate in some states.[52][53] Vigilantism frequently usurps the jurisdiction of the courts.[54]"
Pakistan (member OIC) - death penalty
Saudi Arabia (member OIC) - death penalty
Sudan (member OIC) - imprisonment, a fine (up to 8 million Sudanese pounds for having sold a book), and a maximum of forty lashes
Turkey (member OIC) - 1-3 years
UAE (member OIC) - up to the judge, but based on what they do to tourists that are victims of rape.....
Yemen (member OIC) - death penalty
Apostasy in Islam
The following are some nations that treat apostasy under their criminal laws.
Iran – illegal (death penalty)[13][14][15]
Egypt – illegal (3 years' imprisonment)[15]
Pakistan – illegal (death penalty[15] since 2007)
United Arab Emirates – illegal (3 years' imprisonment, flogging)[16]
Somalia – illegal (death penalty)[17]
Afghanistan – illegal (death penalty, although the U.S. and other coalition members have put pressure that has prevented recent executions)[18][19]
Saudi Arabia – illegal (death penalty, although there have been no recently reported executions)[15][20]
Sudan – illegal (death penalty, although there have only been recent reports of torture, and not of execution)[21][22]
Qatar – illegal (death penalty)[23]
Yemen – illegal (death penalty)[23]
Malaysia – illegal in five of 13 states (fine, imprisonment, and flogging)[24][25]
Mauritania – illegal (death penalty if still apostate after 3 days)[26]
Morocco – illegal to proselytise conversion (15 years' imprisonment)[27]
Jordan – possibly illegal (fine, jail, child custody loss, marriage annulment) although officials claim otherwise, convictions are recorded for apostasy[28][29][30]
Oman – legal in criminal code, but according to the family code, a father can lose custody of his child[31]
www.beholdthebeast.com/the_beast.htm
jamie -- I am sorry for your loss ... and maybe that is what driving your apparent anger toward .....
BUT - it still appears you are painting everyone that follows the faith of Islam with a really big brush ... and trying to convince the "world" they (the followers) must be held accountable.
(more on that subject later)
But first you claim "I think you're too use to watching the censored liberal media. " -- For the record I rarely watch any News Show -- maybe the local station for weather now again.
MY EXPERIENCE comes from working with many Muslim people -- the technology sector (which I work in) -- has several thousand people working here in the States on Work Visas (which is completely a new topic -- since there are several good USA citizens turned down from work -- cause those on work visas work cheaper). THESE foreign workers come from various places including Middle-East, India, Russia, Turkey ....
Many are Muslim -- and the vast majority of them ... do not believe they have to convert everyone.... In fact most of them refuse to talk openly about their religion....
They are friendly, raise families, and practically same as anyone else in the work place.
It is these I refer to -- real people met by me in real life .... NOT from what you apparently feel was gleaned from watching some "liberal Media" ....
============================================================
Now back to the "accountable" argument .... based on your posts -- it seems you are trying to hold accountable all Muslims for the "sins" of a few.....
So Let's take a step back and apply it to the Christian Radicals ....
To be clear - I believe Abortion is WRONG .....
A few years ago; many radical Christians decided the only way to combat Abortion -- was to KILL all the Abortion Doctors -- or at least Threaten them (Abortion Doctors) with Death threats if they did not immediately stop. (there were a few KILLED and several had their families (including children) threaten as well)
Many, and I do mean many -- took the violence of these radical Christians and applied it to everyone who even had the Label Christian. They felt ALL Christians would rather Kill Someone -- who they disagreed with.
Maybe, it is simply because I live in a metropolitan area -- but -- no people in my area do not always share the same thoughts and beliefs.....
AND being Partially blamed for a few radical Christians I knew nothing about -- was an eye opening experience to me......
So yes, provide information about the "wrongs" about Islam .... but do not lump everyone who follows that religion as being the same as the radical followers....
And do not claim that I or anyone else on this website -- has the the "wrong views" about some subject because -- as you labeled it "Liberal Media"....
You have no clue what we do or do not watch --
NOR do you have a clue How we came by that knowledge ......
It seems you somehow feel you are superior to those who you disagree with and the fault (of not being as superior as you) is because of some mythological "something" that proves (in your mind) we are wrong)...
that is very close to breaking rule # 3. -- (ie. Character Attack)
All of us on this Earth are still sinful and still need of daily cleansing -- we are to LEARN from each other -- not pretend we are somehow superior.
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Post by boraddict on Apr 22, 2019 19:25:23 GMT -6
Venge, a Ram is not a Lamb. One is an adult male sheep and the other is young child sheep; a sheep with no horns. Revelation 13:11 states: "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon." That is, the beast came up from the sea of mankind having two horns of leadership authority; one being "like a lamb" (a child sheep with no horns) and the other "as a dragon." Please consider Daniel 7:25 in which " he shall speak great words against the most high and shall wear out the saints of the Most High." This links to Rev. 13:5-7 in which the mouth of the beast that is " he" of Dan. 7:25 " speaks great things" (Rev. 13:5) " in blasphemy against God" (Rev. 13:6) and "overcomes" the saints of God (Rev. 13:7). This evidence proves that "he" of Dan. 7:25 is the mouth of Rev. 13:5-7. Further, since "he" of Dan. 7:25 links to Dan. 7:8, and the "eyes like the eyes of a man" that are not the eyes of a prophet but the eyes of a false prophet that can only see as a man sees and not as a prophet of God sees, and the "mouth speaking great things" are the great words of the "mouth" of the little horn, then the little horn (Dan. 7:8) has "in this horn" a false prophet "like a lamb" but not really a lamb, and a "mouth speaking great things" and these are the two positions of authority as stated in Revelation 13:11. Thus, the evidence shows that the little horn has within him the role of the false prophet and the role of the dragon. Thus, this beast of Revelation 13:11 is a false prophet and a devil. I was not inferring that a lamb is a ram. I suggested that Jamie was Referencing the ram because of the symbolism of its 2 horns meaning 2 different nations. I was trying to understand her thought process and where she was going with it. You ref. the beast of the earth and said he comes up out of the sea? Yet the text states the beast comes out of the earth. I don't see any split in the horns. I don't see the text state that. Neither does the description in Daniel say or elude to that. I agree the "he" in Daniel is the mouth of the Beast. I have written on that many times in this site in the distant past. I don't see in your description 2 separate entities as you put forth with the scripture you gave. I do agree the beast of the earth is the false prophet and a devil. And Sadaam Huseein was a man and a devil. Hitler was a man and a devil. And many men throughout the ages have had a devil. Daniel is very specific when he says there are 4 kingdoms. There are 4 Kings. Can you show me the Anti-Christ in Revelation? With scripture copied and pasted here. Not chapter and verse but scripture. helps me to read it rather then me looking everything up. Thanks Venge. The false prophet presents himself as working for the beast and that is clearly supported throughout Revelation. However, as I was writing my last post I noticed that the false prophet is a spokesman for the beast and not necessarily a false spokesmen for Christ. Thus, it may be the case that the false prophet is not anti-Christ, but pro-beast as a spokesman for the beast and Satan. Consequently, the false prophet may not be a prophet type at all but simply the beasts Christ to save the world. Thus, the false prophet may have a religion like communism or something like that and not necessarily a Christian religion. Are you thinking along these same lines?
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Post by mike on Apr 23, 2019 5:44:50 GMT -6
boraddictIs there a typo or missed word where I bolded? I'm having a hard time understanding that part of what you wrote
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Post by venge on Apr 23, 2019 7:37:33 GMT -6
I was not inferring that a lamb is a ram. I suggested that Jamie was Referencing the ram because of the symbolism of its 2 horns meaning 2 different nations. I was trying to understand her thought process and where she was going with it. You ref. the beast of the earth and said he comes up out of the sea? Yet the text states the beast comes out of the earth. I don't see any split in the horns. I don't see the text state that. Neither does the description in Daniel say or elude to that. I agree the "he" in Daniel is the mouth of the Beast. I have written on that many times in this site in the distant past. I don't see in your description 2 separate entities as you put forth with the scripture you gave. I do agree the beast of the earth is the false prophet and a devil. And Sadaam Huseein was a man and a devil. Hitler was a man and a devil. And many men throughout the ages have had a devil. Daniel is very specific when he says there are 4 kingdoms. There are 4 Kings. Can you show me the Anti-Christ in Revelation? With scripture copied and pasted here. Not chapter and verse but scripture. helps me to read it rather then me looking everything up. Thanks Venge. The false prophet presents himself as working for the beast and that is clearly supported throughout Revelation. However, as I was writing my last post I noticed that the false prophet is a spokesman for the beast and not necessarily a false spokesmen for Christ. Thus, it may be the case that the false prophet is not anti-Christ, but pro-beast as a spokesman for the beast and Satan. Consequently, the false prophet may not be a prophet type at all but simply the beasts Christ to save the world. Thus, the false prophet may have a religion like communism or something like that and not necessarily a Christian religion. Are you thinking along these same lines? Bora, You said: I agree. I believe he is the mouth piece for the beast of the sea. What I had also said in one of the posts was that it is possible, even the smallest amount of possibility, that he could be a false spokesman for Christ because we dont know. Most likely, he is not because it gives examples of his character that conflict as well as him punishing Christians, blaspheming God etc...I allow all possibilities to be on the table though because until it happens, it needs to be a possibility. Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing right? I think he is definitely Anti-Christ. He speaks great pompous words against the most High. He blasphemes, he worships another God....he causes Christians to be hurt. I'd say that is enough to say Anti-Christ. He doesn't have the Father or the son. The wording here is confusing, are you suggesting the False Prophet is the beast kingdoms "Messiah" for them? I don't know if it will be that way. Perhaps for some. But in large, I would say not so only because - do we feel that the previous 7 kingdoms that were lead by their kings were treated as Messiahs? I am not talking about great men or Kings or even as demi-gods but the messiah to save them from the world. I don't think it will be that way. That is more Muslim tradition for them which I will not put their unfulfilled prophecies on par with the Bible. Our text is from God, and theirs is from man. Well, for right now I am looking at it as such: He worships a god of fortresses. It took me a long time to think of what that is and 2 things come to mind. The first is a god of war that conquers others and thereby receives fortresses as the religion grows. For an example, not that I am in this belief, you could say Islamic caliphate. The second reason I think builds upon the first as taking land and capitols. God is our rock, our stronghold and our fortress. So if God is our fortress (singular), what false god has fortresses (plural)? As if made to say he is better then our God because he has more. For even the heathens have as many Churches as us. But this isn't places of worship, this false god is about conquering.
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Post by canada on Apr 23, 2019 17:29:21 GMT -6
Jamie has stated ... "Catholicism is NOT false religion." He also stated: "What scriptural evidence is there that Rome or the Vatican is the beast?" Have you not heard of the reformation?
The language of The Church Of Rome is ... Latin. (hint) ... It's six original numbers are 1 V X L C D ... their sum is ... 666
(hint) ... a meaning of the word primate is ... "beast". A title of the pope is The Primate of Rome. He is the beast of Revelation.
Each and every pope claims to be ... The Vicar Of Christ.
A meaning of vicar or vicarious is ... "in place of" or "instead of". He is claiming to be "in place of Christ".
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2 Thess 3-4
He and his followers receive and display a mark on their right hand and forehead. Rev 13 Evidence presented.
Where it says, Let no man deceive you, that includes you and I Vicar of Christ ... the pope, with reference to his claim to stand in the place of Jesus Christ and possess his authority in the church. Dictionary.com
Vicarious ... instead of ... substitute for
The Church of Rome encourages it's followers to bow down to and pray to graven images of "Mary" and "Peter" and Jamie says Romanism is not a false church!
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