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Post by stormyknight on Apr 9, 2020 18:22:11 GMT -6
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
"God created the heavens and the earth." Gen. 1:1
"And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light." Gen. 1:3
"there was evening and there was morning, the first day." Gen. 1:5
"God created man in his own image" Gen. 1:27
"on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done." Gen. 2:2
" the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth" Luke 1:26
"the time came for Elizabeth to give birth, and she bore a son." Luke 1:57
" she(mary) gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths and laid him in a manger," Luke 2:7
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us," John 1:14
"John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins." Mark 1:4
"a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars." Rev. 12:1
"rebellion comes first," 2 Thess. 2:3 "the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction," 2 Thess. 2:3
"the last trumpet" 1 Cor. 15:52
" the dead will be raised imperishable, 1 Cor. 15:52 "we shall all be changed," 1 Cor. 15:51&52 " the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven," Matt. 24:30 "the day of the Lord has come." 2 Thess. 2:2
Ok, I hope this is enough to get started and you all get the idea. It of course takes time, but with BibleHub on one tab and Unsealed on another, it can go fairly quickly. I'm not trying to rewrite the bible here, just put the sequence of events in order, which would include prophecy that has already happened as well as we know of prophecy that will happen in a certain order for sure.
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Post by mike on Apr 10, 2020 5:32:21 GMT -6
stormyknight I think Hos 3:4 fits into mostly the pre-Messiah time frame except for "without a sacrifice" as that prophecy completed in 70 AD, but days without a king and a prince were a ways before that with Nebuchadnezzar conquering Zedekiahs reign. But does verse 5 contemplate genetic Israel returning to the Lord during tribulation? Hos 3:4-5 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice, and without an image, and without an ephod, and [without] teraphim:
5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.
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Post by stormyknight on Apr 10, 2020 8:52:12 GMT -6
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 "God created the heavens and the earth." Gen. 1:1 "And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light." Gen. 1:3 "there was evening and there was morning, the first day." Gen. 1:5 "God created man in his own image" Gen. 1:27 "on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done." Gen. 2:2 " the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth" Luke 1:26 "the time came for Elizabeth to give birth, and she bore a son." Luke 1:57 " she(mary) gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths and laid him in a manger," Luke 2:7 "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us," John 1:14 "John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins." Mark 1:4
" the children of Israel shall dwell many days without king or prince," Hosea 3:4
"the children of Israel shall return" Hosea 3:5
"a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars." Rev. 12:1 "rebellion comes first," 2 Thess. 2:3 "the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction," 2 Thess. 2:3 "the last trumpet" 1 Cor. 15:52 " the dead will be raised imperishable, 1 Cor. 15:52
"Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. ... and the earth will give birth to the dead." Isa. 26:19
"we shall all be changed," 1 Cor. 15:51&52
"the children of Israel shall ... seek the Lord their God, and David their king, and they shall come in fear to the Lord and to his goodness in the latter days" Hosea 3:5
" the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven," Matt. 24:30
"Come, my people, enter your chambers, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until the fury has passed by." Isa. 26:20
"the day of the Lord has come." 2 Thess. 2:2
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Post by venge on Apr 13, 2020 12:08:35 GMT -6
stormyknight , You put the rebellion and the man of sin revealed before the last Trumpet. Then the raising of the dead followed by the raising of the living. Next you had the sign of the son of man.... which I would move before the last Trumpet to at least before the dead rising. Bravo! You surprised me putting the rebellion and man of sin before the raising of the living in your timeline.
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Post by stormyknight on Apr 13, 2020 15:02:33 GMT -6
stormyknight , You put the rebellion and the man of sin revealed before the last Trumpet. Then the raising of the dead followed by the raising of the living. Next you had the sign of the son of man.... which I would move before the last Trumpet to at least before the dead rising. Bravo! You surprised me putting the rebellion and man of sin before the raising of the living in your timeline. Well, I've been thinking that maybe the scenario would be the church giving witness to the world that Jesus is at the door and identifying who the AC is and then a whole lot of 'on the fence' Christians pulling a 'Lot's wife'. The Rapture would then happen, the dead rising first, etc...
I know there is some contention about this, but 2 Thess. 2 is pretty clear. That is if you interpret 'apostasia' as falling away from your faith.
Also, I put the Sign of the Son of Man where I did because it is when Jesus returns to Earth(the inhabitants of the Earth physically see this, 'as the lightning shines from the east as far as the west...') for the final battle, which, as I understand so far, we will have been gathered to Him and will be by His side when He sets foot on the Mt. of Olives.
"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." Matt. 24:30-31
Now, understand, this is the "ouranōn" heaven, or "the sky", so, we ascend to 'heaven', or 'the sky' to meet Him and then come down with Him to face off in battle.
Thank you, venge, for your help!
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Post by stormyknight on Apr 13, 2020 15:19:30 GMT -6
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
"God created the heavens and the earth." Gen. 1:1
"And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light." Gen. 1:3
"there was evening and there was morning, the first day." Gen. 1:5
"God created man in his own image" Gen. 1:27
"on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done." Gen. 2:2
" the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth" Luke 1:26
"the time came for Elizabeth to give birth, and she bore a son." Luke 1:57
" she(mary) gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths and laid him in a manger," Luke 2:7
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us," John 1:14
"John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins." Mark 1:4
" the children of Israel shall dwell many days without king or prince," Hosea 3:4
"the children of Israel shall return" Hosea 3:5
"a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars." Rev. 12:1
"rebellion comes first," 2 Thess. 2:3
"the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction," 2 Thess. 2:3
"the last trumpet" 1 Cor. 15:52
" the dead will be raised imperishable, 1 Cor. 15:52
"Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. ... and the earth will give birth to the dead." Isa. 26:19
"we shall all be changed," 1 Cor. 15:51&52
"He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." Matt. 24:31
"the children of Israel shall ... seek the Lord their God, and David their king, and they shall come in fear to the Lord and to his goodness in the latter days" Hosea 3:5
" the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven," Matt. 24:30
"Come, my people, enter your chambers, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until the fury has passed by." Isa. 26:20
"the day of the Lord has come." 2 Thess. 2:2
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Post by venge on Apr 14, 2020 5:12:36 GMT -6
stormyknight , You put the rebellion and the man of sin revealed before the last Trumpet. Then the raising of the dead followed by the raising of the living. Next you had the sign of the son of man.... which I would move before the last Trumpet to at least before the dead rising. Bravo! You surprised me putting the rebellion and man of sin before the raising of the living in your timeline. Well, I've been thinking that maybe the scenario would be the church giving witness to the world that Jesus is at the door and identifying who the AC is and then a whole lot of 'on the fence' Christians pulling a 'Lot's wife'. The Rapture would then happen, the dead rising first, etc...
I know there is some contention about this, but 2 Thess. 2 is pretty clear. That is if you interpret 'apostasia' as falling away from your faith.
Also, I put the Sign of the Son of Man where I did because it is when Jesus returns to Earth(the inhabitants of the Earth physically see this, 'as the lightning shines from the east as far as the west...') for the final battle, which, as I understand so far, we will have been gathered to Him and will be by His side when He sets foot on the Mt. of Olives.
"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." Matt. 24:30-31
Now, understand, this is the "ouranōn" heaven, or "the sky", so, we ascend to 'heaven', or 'the sky' to meet Him and then come down with Him to face off in battle.
Thank you, venge , for your help! Oh man! This is why I hate socio stigmas like I'm Pre TB, I'm Pre-Wrath etc...How about is it like this or that, what do we see in scripture. I say this because you got me excited. I could care less if you believe in a specific theory if you can also see around it. If there are possibilities, its worth looking into to. We must do that and not just shut ideas out until they are proved. When you said: That is how I see it. Not I from a book at Barnes & Nobles or some podcast/webinar/video, but just from scripture how I see it unfolding itself. The culmination of scripture from Paul's writings with Revelation leads me to this same scenario. We have death and destruction today in wars, disease (Covid19) and famines in Africa/Pakistan etc.. We had previously Russia take over a country (Crimea). These specific things exists in Revelation. They have always been happening and I don't call them God's wrath. Perhaps judgements in order to turn people to God...but not his everlasting wrath. When I look at the Trumpets, I look at why they are sounded. In heaven the angels sound them, but on earth the Priests did and why? To announce an attack/war/death/wrath approaching or to signal the people to come together and hold an assembly. I think during that time we Christians are to work and that we will be laughed at, put to scorn and shunned and the Jews will see it. And they will suffer severe persecution and we will help them. And they will look to us who help them as we worship God and they will have questions with their hearts opened and their eyes unblinded. There would be others who would be like Lot's wife, looking to "save their lives/livelihood/pomp and things they love". Remember in Joel, he says "Even now" to look to God when all these calamities are happening and you think its the end, even now you can look to him and he may surprise you with a gift! With ouranon in the text, its not just sky, but literally north, south east and west. Its all over the world that the elect are gathered. Not just one place but a world wide event!! I just ask my Pre TB friends, don't shut it out because it doesn't fit in PRE TB. If you shut it out, do it because you yourself cant find scripture to support it. Not because PRE TB preachers/writers cant. God wants us to be watered ourselves to grow. We must be careful of online preachers (whether Pre TB, Pre Wrath, Post TB etc) whose waters may be salted and not fresh no matter how well their intention is or how big their fan base is.
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Post by venge on Apr 14, 2020 5:34:07 GMT -6
stormyknight , Separate note to your timeline. By the time the 6th Trumpet happens we see this: EDIT: BTW, the word for plague's description is: a blow, stripe, wound; an affliction, plague. The same word was used for Christians enduring persecution by stripes, blows and affliction. No wrath. It identifies them as plagues and not everlasting wrath. Notice how not all people died from plagues (wars, famines, disease), neither did they repent when these things befell on them like today with Covid19. If this is during God's wrath, without going through all scripture, which last 7 years to some, 3.5 years to some others - why does God's wrath need to last so long on human flesh if he can do it in an instant and he will put them in the lake of fire to burn eventually? Can God do it in 30 days or less? Without answering those, focus on the God's wrath aspect. Men are not giving glory to God when these events happen whether you believe they are wrath or not wrath. Basically, they are a good ways through Revelation already and just don't care. They arnt that scared are they? They haven't broken down, got on their knees to ask for forgiveness, they arnt asking for mercy...and this is God's wrath? (Stay with me-) But something miraculous happens after the 6th Trumpet that no man cares by any plague that happens. We see this: Previously, we just had all the men that were not killed by the plagues do their own thing. All of a sudden 7 thousand men that died in a city turns the remnant? Why the sudden change from pretty much ALL men not caring from ALL the plagues that have killed people (I'm guessing much more then 7 thousand throughout the world; Covid19 killed more then 10k in New York) to 7 thousand dieing in a city and the rest of the city gave glory to God during his supposed wrath? No, I believe this is a last call before the bowls which are filled up with the wrath of God. If the remnant give Glory to God, they acknowledge God exists. If they acknowledge God, they believe in the true God. And if you believe in the true God, you believe in his son - Christ Jesus! I believe they will be saved before God's temple fills with smoke (Rev 15) which once its filled, no man can enter it till the 7 bowls are poured out and completed. And if man can enter when its not filled, it wasn't filled previous to the 6th and 7th trumpets, then man can enter his temple during the Trumpets and how can he do that in wrath?
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Post by stormyknight on Apr 15, 2020 9:57:43 GMT -6
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 "God created the heavens and the earth." Gen. 1:1 "And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light." Gen. 1:3 "there was evening and there was morning, the first day." Gen. 1:5 "God created man in his own image" Gen. 1:27 "on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done." Gen. 2:2
"For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell, placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;" 2 Pet. 2:4
" the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth" Luke 1:26 "the time came for Elizabeth to give birth, and she bore a son." Luke 1:57 " she(mary) gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths and laid him in a manger," Luke 2:7 "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us," John 1:14
"wise men from the east came to Jerusalem," Matt. 2:1
"Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star had appeared." Matt. 2:7
"the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy him.”" Matt. 2:13
"Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, became furious, and he sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time that he had ascertained from the wise men." Matt. 2:16
"John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins." Mark 1:4
"And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness for forty days, being tempted by the devil." Luke 4:1-2
"And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee," Luke 4:14
"Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written." John 21:25
"Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare for us to eat the Passover.”" Luke 22:8
"When the hour had come, Jesus reclined at the table with His apostles." Luke 22:14
"It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness came over all the land until the ninth hour.k The sun was darkened,l and the veil of the temple was torn down the middle." Luke 23:44-45
"When Jesus had led them out as far as Bethany, He lifted up His hands and blessed them. While He was blessing them, He left them and was carried up into heaven." Luke 24:50-51 " the children of Israel shall dwell many days without king or prince," Hosea 3:4
"I will scatter you like chaff driven by the wind from the desert." Jer. 13:24
"I will scatter you among the nations and disperse you through the countries, and I will consume your uncleanness out of you." Ezek. 22:15
"the children of Israel shall return" Hosea 3:5 "a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars." Rev. 12:1 "rebellion comes first," 2 Thess. 2:3 "the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction," 2 Thess. 2:3
"“And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done." Dan. 11:36
"the last trumpet" 1 Cor. 15:52 " the dead will be raised imperishable, 1 Cor. 15:52 "Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. ... and the earth will give birth to the dead." Isa. 26:19 "we shall all be changed," 1 Cor. 15:51&52 "He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." Matt. 24:31 "the children of Israel shall ... seek the Lord their God, and David their king, and they shall come in fear to the Lord and to his goodness in the latter days" Hosea 3:5
"“At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. " Dan. 12:1
" the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven," Matt. 24:30 "Come, my people, enter your chambers, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until the fury has passed by." Isa. 26:20
"And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?” Rev. 6:9-10
"the day of the Lord has come." 2 Thess. 2:2
"Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the roar of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, crying out," Rev. 19:6
"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years." Rev. 20:1
"And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison" Rev. 20:7
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Post by stormyknight on Aug 3, 2020 11:02:31 GMT -6
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 "God created the heavens and the earth." Gen. 1:1 "And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light." Gen. 1:3 "there was evening and there was morning, the first day." Gen. 1:5 "God created man in his own image" Gen. 1:27 "on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done." Gen. 2:2 "For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell, placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;" 2 Pet. 2:4 " the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth" Luke 1:26 "the time came for Elizabeth to give birth, and she bore a son." Luke 1:57 " she(mary) gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths and laid him in a manger," Luke 2:7 "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us," John 1:14 "wise men from the east came to Jerusalem," Matt. 2:1 "Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star had appeared." Matt. 2:7 "the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, “Rise, take the child and his mother, and flee to Egypt, and remain there until I tell you, for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy him.”" Matt. 2:13 "Then Herod, when he saw that he had been tricked by the wise men, became furious, and he sent and killed all the male children in Bethlehem and in all that region who were two years old or under, according to the time that he had ascertained from the wise men." Matt. 2:16 "John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins." Mark 1:4 "And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness for forty days, being tempted by the devil." Luke 4:1-2 "And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee," Luke 4:14 "Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written." John 21:25 "Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare for us to eat the Passover.”" Luke 22:8 "When the hour had come, Jesus reclined at the table with His apostles." Luke 22:14 "It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness came over all the land until the ninth hour.k The sun was darkened,l and the veil of the temple was torn down the middle." Luke 23:44-45 "When Jesus had led them out as far as Bethany, He lifted up His hands and blessed them. While He was blessing them, He left them and was carried up into heaven." Luke 24:50-51 " the children of Israel shall dwell many days without king or prince," Hosea 3:4 "I will scatter you like chaff driven by the wind from the desert." Jer. 13:24 "I will scatter you among the nations and disperse you through the countries, and I will consume your uncleanness out of you." Ezek. 22:15 "the children of Israel shall return" Hosea 3:5 "a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars." Rev. 12:1 "the last trumpet" 1 Cor. 15:52 " the dead will be raised imperishable, 1 Cor. 15:52 "Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. ... and the earth will give birth to the dead." Isa. 26:19 "we shall all be changed," 1 Cor. 15:51&52
"Come, my people, enter your chambers, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until the fury has passed by." Isa. 26:20
"rebellion comes first," 2 Thess. 2:3
"the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction," 2 Thess. 2:3
"“And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done." Dan. 11:36
"the children of Israel shall ... seek the Lord their God, and David their king, and they shall come in fear to the Lord and to his goodness in the latter days" Hosea 3:5
"“At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. " Dan. 12:1 "Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, “Go, pour out on the earth the seven bowls of God’s wrath.” So the first angel went and poured out his bowl on the earth, and loathsome, malignant sores broke out on those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image." Rev. 16:1-2
"And the second angel poured out his bowl into the sea, and it turned to blood like that of the dead, and every living thing in the sea died." Rev. 16:3
"Then the third angel poured out his bowl into the rivers and springs of water, and they turned to blood." Rev. 16:4
"Next, the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was given power to scorch the people with fire." Rev. 16:8
"And the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness, and men began to gnaw their tongues in anguish and curse the God of heaven for their pains and sores; yet they did not repent of their deeds." Rev. 16:10-11
"Then the sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings of the East. " Rev. 16:12
"Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came from the throne in the temple, saying, “It is done!” And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and a great earthquake the likes of which had not occurred since men were upon the earth— so mighty was the great quake." Rev. 16:17-18
"And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?” Rev. 6:9-10
""At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." Matt. 24:30-31 " the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven," Matt. 24:30 "the day of the Lord has come." 2 Thess. 2:2 "Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the roar of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, crying out," Rev. 19:6 "Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years." Rev. 20:1 "And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison" Rev. 20:7
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Post by stormyknight on Aug 3, 2020 11:11:52 GMT -6
I reordered some things I thought were out of order, but I would like some input on things like Rev. 8:12 vs Rev. 16:8. These appear to be total opposites, one darkness, the other searing heat/brightness. boraddict , according to what I have listed here, can you tell me where you would put the trumpets of Rev. 8?
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Post by boraddict on Aug 3, 2020 18:31:23 GMT -6
I reordered some things I thought were out of order, but I would like some input on things like Rev. 8:12 vs Rev. 16:8. These appear to be total opposites, one darkness, the other searing heat/brightness. boraddict , according to what I have listed here, can you tell me where you would put the trumpets of Rev. 8? Thank you stormyknight, for this honor. In my opinion Rev. 8 is in four parts the first of which has an application to the seven seals that shows the actions of man (Rev. 8:1). At the end of the actions of man are the actions of God beginning with the assembly of the seven angels with trumpets and this has some application to the marriage (Rev. 8:2-5). Third is the destruction of the beast and his false prophet in the harvest of God at the four trumpets (Rev. 8:6-12). So I see Verse 8:12 as part of the destruction of the beast during the harvest at the mid-point. That is, the beast has ruled the earth for 3.5 years and then he is destroyed in the harvest at that mid-point. So I see Chapter 8 as the actual mid-point. Lastly, the angel in Rev. 8:13 provides instruction about the next three trumpets that span the next 3.5 years. During that time God is exercising his authority over the population of the earth in a biblical manner. Lastly, Rev. 16:8 follows the gathering of the grapes at Rev. 14:19-21. This means that it is at the end of the second 3.5 year period of time (IMO). Having said that then the application of Rev. 8:12 (in the harvest) does not match exactly but is in something like a type and shadow relationship with Rev. 16:8 that is in the wine-press (at the end of the 7 years). One more lastly; all the above is subject to change because I really do not know.
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Post by venge on Aug 8, 2020 8:49:59 GMT -6
I reordered some things I thought were out of order, but I would like some input on things like Rev. 8:12 vs Rev. 16:8. These appear to be total opposites, one darkness, the other searing heat/brightness. boraddict , according to what I have listed here, can you tell me where you would put the trumpets of Rev. 8? I have many questions, but I'll just ask this... Why do you place the sign of the son of man and the 5th seal after the bowls?
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Post by stormyknight on Aug 10, 2020 13:53:53 GMT -6
Well, venge , in my mind, the bowls/vials, the trumpets, the seals, all happen before the Day of the Lord. When the Lord Jesus comes down from Heaven in the clouds a lot of things are going to happen at once. I know we, as His church will be with Him, but do we do anything? Do we need to do anything? Other than the fact that we are part of Him by then, One in Spirit, He will come in great power and annihilate anyone who opposes Him. And, I think, it will be immediate and absolute.
"And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the peoples that wage war against Jerusalem: their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.
And on that day a great panic from the Lord shall fall on them, so that each will seize the hand of another, and the hand of the one will be raised against the hand of the other. Even Judah will fight at Jerusalem. And the wealth of all the surrounding nations shall be collected, gold, silver, and garments in great abundance. And a plague like this plague shall fall on the horses, the mules, the camels, the donkeys, and whatever beasts may be in those camps." Zech. 14:12-15
The sign of the Son of Man is Jesus descending in the clouds. I am convince it will cause great panic in those who have stubbornly refused to follow Him. I believe verse 12 is the inspiration for the scene of the opening of the Ark of the Covenant in the movie Raiders of the Lost Ark. But that was just a handful of people. The real deal will be all who oppose Him or waged war against Jerusalem. It will be the hammer blow that stops Satan's works instantly. The only thing left to do is to lock Satan up for a thousand years.
Now, I'm not sure at the moment about where the 5th seal comes in relation to the bowls/vials, but I believe the sign of the Son of Man definitely comes last as that is THE day that Christ returns.
"On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward. ... Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him." Zech. 14:4-5
All of Zech. 14 is about the Day of the Lord and some of what happens after.
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Post by venge on Aug 10, 2020 15:46:16 GMT -6
Well, venge , in my mind, the bowls/vials, the trumpets, the seals, all happen before the Day of the Lord. When the Lord Jesus comes down from Heaven in the clouds a lot of things are going to happen at once. I know we, as His church will be with Him, but do we do anything? Do we need to do anything? Other than the fact that we are part of Him by then, One in Spirit, He will come in great power and annihilate anyone who opposes Him. And, I think, it will be immediate and absolute.
"And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the peoples that wage war against Jerusalem: their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.
And on that day a great panic from the Lord shall fall on them, so that each will seize the hand of another, and the hand of the one will be raised against the hand of the other. Even Judah will fight at Jerusalem. And the wealth of all the surrounding nations shall be collected, gold, silver, and garments in great abundance. And a plague like this plague shall fall on the horses, the mules, the camels, the donkeys, and whatever beasts may be in those camps." Zech. 14:12-15
The sign of the Son of Man is Jesus descending in the clouds. I am convince it will cause great panic in those who have stubbornly refused to follow Him. I believe verse 12 is the inspiration for the scene of the opening of the Ark of the Covenant in the movie Raiders of the Lost Ark. But that was just a handful of people. The real deal will be all who oppose Him or waged war against Jerusalem. It will be the hammer blow that stops Satan's works instantly. The only thing left to do is to lock Satan up for a thousand years.
Now, I'm not sure at the moment about where the 5th seal comes in relation to the bowls/vials, but I believe the sign of the Son of Man definitely comes last as that is THE day that Christ returns.
"On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward. ... Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him." Zech. 14:4-5
All of Zech. 14 is about the Day of the Lord and some of what happens after.
Ok...bare with me if you will. In order for the bowls, trumpets and seals to all happen before the DotL some things need to be questioned. Joel 3:12-14 tells us that the harvest is near the day of the Lord...not after it. The harvest is mentioned in Rev 14 after the 144k are sealed, after Babylon is destroyed and after the mark is setup. As for more of a timeline, Zephaniah 1:7 gives more on the DotL location. There, the DotL is near the sacrifice that he bids his guests. The sacrifice is the wedding supper of Rev 19. By these 3 places, we can show the DotL is near, but not before, the harvest and the wedding supper. The wedding supper is detailed in Rev 19 to be after Babylon is destroyed, after Christ begins to reign, after the bride makes herself ready and given white linen. Since Christ reign comes before the DotL by recognizing Zephaniah and Joel 3 and we can look at Rev 11 to see Christ begins to reign at the 7th Trumpet, thereby I find it hard to include the bowls as happening before the DotL. Not only that, but Rev 15 is an intercession after the 7th trumpet and before the first bowl is poured out. In that chapter, its the only time the door to God's temple is closed where no man could enter till the 7 bowls are completed at which time it will reopen for men to enter. How could the DotL be after the bowls if this event stops entrance to God's temple? Not only that, but anytime the temple fills with smoke in God's glory...neither do any ones prayers go up. I agree the sign of the son of man comes at the end. 2 Timothy 4:1 is a good example of that. He judges (Bema seat) the quick (living) and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom. Which means his appearing coincides with his reign in his kingdom which is announced in Rev 19 and Rev 11.
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