faye
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Post by faye on Jul 5, 2017 13:20:52 GMT -6
Hi faye! Thank you for the extra info. I have a question to ask: From what exactly do those ten kings fall away? HI Paul.
The ten kings fall away from believing that marriage and sexual relations with the man of lawlessness is sin.
The angel of the Lord foretold it thus in the middle of Daniel 11:17.
Notice:
"and he (the ten kings) shall give him (the man of lawlessness) the daughter of women, corrupting her."
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faye
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Post by faye on Jul 7, 2017 2:43:34 GMT -6
Gee, no responses?!
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paul
Layman
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son...
Posts: 96
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Post by paul on Jul 7, 2017 3:27:26 GMT -6
HI Paul.
The ten kings fall away from believing that marriage and sexual relations with the man of lawlessness is sin.
The angel of the Lord foretold it thus in the middle of Daniel 11:17.
Notice:
"and he (the ten kings) shall give him (the man of lawlessness) the daughter of women, corrupting her."
Hi faye. So, according to your theory the apostasy is a falling away from believing in "something". Well, you need to be consistent in your Bible interpretations. There is nowhere in the Scripture apostasy has anything to do with the falling away from believing in "something". Even if you check Greek word "apostasia" in LXX (Septuagint) you can find that its all about turning away from God and His Law. I am not here to argue with anybody or change anyone's opinion or make a movie entertainment. I fully understand that those who spend decades in "deep" studying of eschatology and especially boast about it are not open to any fresh views. Let the Holy Spirit fight those mental strongholds, for the battle is the Lord's. So, just as it is written, "Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord".
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faye
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Post by faye on Jul 7, 2017 8:56:46 GMT -6
HI Paul.
The ten kings fall away from believing that marriage and sexual relations with the man of lawlessness is sin.
The angel of the Lord foretold it thus in the middle of Daniel 11:17.
Notice:
"and he (the ten kings) shall give him (the man of lawlessness) the daughter of women, corrupting her."
Hi faye. So, according to your theory the apostasy is a falling away from believing in "something". Well, you need to be consistent in your Bible interpretations. There is nowhere in the Scripture apostasy has anything to do with the falling away from believing in "something". Even if you check Greek word "apostasia" in LXX (Septuagint) you can find that its all about turning away from God and His Law. I am not here to argue with anybody or change anyone's opinion or make a movie entertainment. I fully understand that those who spend decades in "deep" studying of eschatology and especially boast about it are not open to any fresh views. Let the Holy Spirit fight those mental strongholds, for the battle is the Lord's. So, just as it is written, "Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord". Hi Paul,
I'm not here to boast or to argue either. I would, however, like to see fellow Christians think outside the box and to question whether the traditional doctrines they've come to accept are correct or false. Seems like the wise thing to do in light of all that Jesus, and Peter, in 2nd Peter, chapter 2, said about false prophets in the last days, and about the many who would follow them. Appears it is they whom are not open to any fresh views today!
Now, concerning the apostasy in 2nd Thessalonians 2. It is that people called the ten kings upon BABYLON THE GREAT who fall away and go into apostasy. In other words it's the European Americans who've fallen away.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2017 9:16:06 GMT -6
To faye and Paul: We accept traditional doctrine mostly because it is strongly supported by Scripture. Unless you can prove beyond all doubt your new doctrine is correct, I will stick to the traditional. It took me a LONG time to even start thinking that rt's modified pre-Trib theory, and that is a theory that multiple people on this forum have come up with and indepentantly verified. Combined with the fact that the traditional pre-Trib has flaws, I finally started to accept it as an alternative. Your theory doesn't have much Scriptural support, and I see no reason to deviate from my normal understanding of the apostasy. I haven't ever seen anyone else with this theory. God doesn't have special revelation, normally. He normally revels something to several people to confirm the revelation. Please, you both have good ideas, but if you want to convince us, you better have one heck of an argument.
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Post by whatif on Jul 7, 2017 10:19:50 GMT -6
We accept traditional doctrine mostly because it is strongly supported by Scripture. Unless you can prove beyond all doubt your new doctrine is correct, I will stick to the traditional. Wise words, Beloved...
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faye
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Post by faye on Jul 7, 2017 10:21:08 GMT -6
To faye and Paul: We accept traditional doctrine mostly because it is strongly supported by Scripture. Unless you can prove beyond all doubt your new doctrine is correct, I will stick to the traditional. It took me a LONG time to even start thinking that rt's modified pre-Trib theory, and that is a theory that multiple people on this forum have come up with and indepentantly verified. Combined with the fact that the traditional pre-Trib has flaws, I finally started to accept it as an alternative. Your theory doesn't have much Scriptural support, and I see no reason to deviate from my normal understanding of the apostasy. I haven't ever seen anyone else with this theory. God doesn't have special revelation, normally. He normally revels something to several people to confirm the revelation. Please, you both have good ideas, but if you want to convince us, you better have one heck of an argument. Hi Beloved,
In order to understand 2nd Thessalonians 2 one must know whom those scriptures are about, and whom it is that falls away and goes into apostasy. As I stated early on, the end-time prophecies, including the ones in 2nd Thessalonians 2, are about a people called the ten kings out of the fourth kingdom upon the earth. (Daniel 7:24) In Revelation 17 we find that the ten kings are upon BABYLON THE GREAT. Actually they're the host people of BABYLON THE GREAT. They're the latter-day European Americans. It is they that have fallen away and have gone into apostasy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2017 10:30:55 GMT -6
Interesting. They've done that! They are beasts.
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Post by watchmanjim on Jul 7, 2017 10:49:04 GMT -6
In order to understand 2nd Thessalonians 2 one must know whom those scriptures are about, and whom it is that falls away and goes into apostasy. As I stated early on, the end-time prophecies, including the ones in 2nd Thessalonians 2, are about a people called the ten kings out of the fourth kingdom upon the earth. (Daniel 7:24) In Revelation 17 we find that the ten kings are upon BABYLON THE GREAT. Actually they're the host people of BABYLON THE GREAT. They're the latter-day European Americans. It is they that have fallen away and have gone into apostasy.
Well, I'm interested in us looking into whether and how this might be the case, but we need to be methodical about it. I'm glad to have your participation, Faye--I didn't comment earlier because I didn't very well understand what you were posting and was waiting to see if you would explain a little better. So--can you show which scriptures specifically address what you're claiming? When you say "the end-time prophecies, including the ones in 2nd Thessalonians 2, are about a people called the ten kings out of the fourth kingdom upon the earth. (Daniel 7:24)" I get a little nervous because it sounds like you are categorically saying that ALL end-time prophecies are about these people, and I have a hard time reconciling that with what I see in the Bible. Could you explain that a little better please? I see somewhere around 20% or more of the entire Bible taken up in end-time prophecies of one type or another, and while some of them are no doubt talking about the group you are discussing, I certainly can't state that ALL the passages are talking about them. Welcome to the board, if I didn't say so before.
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Post by whatif on Jul 7, 2017 10:49:16 GMT -6
I've always wondered whether it would be the US or Europe that would be the mystery form of Babylon. Europe has quite a great amount of symbolic references in their mythology of Europa and the bull, which is imprinted on their coins, displayed in artwork, and so on. And I do see that Europe and the US who have Christian heritage have plummeted in morality in these last days before Jesus' return. We've definitely turned away from the Lord--apostasy.
Faye, are you saying that the falling away is the 10 kings giving over their power and authority to the Beast and becoming a part of it (the 10 horns)--as in a turning away from God to follow the Enemy?
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faye
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Post by faye on Jul 7, 2017 11:07:05 GMT -6
Interesting. They've done that! They are beasts. Hi truthseeker,
BABYLON THE GREAT (AMERICA) is symbolized as that of a beast, as is the man of lawlessness. But I don't believe the ten kings (European Americans) are referred to as a beast in the scriptures. In Daniel the European Americans are referred to as the ten kings, and as the holy people. In Revelation 13:1 they're the ten horns with crowns on them. And in Revelation 17 the ten kings, and the harlot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2017 11:15:37 GMT -6
19 “Then I wanted to know the meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with its iron teeth and bronze claws—the beast that crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. 20 I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell—the horn that looked more imposing than the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully. 21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the holy people and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the holy people of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.
Yep - it's a beast according to the scriptures.
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faye
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Post by faye on Jul 7, 2017 11:18:48 GMT -6
In order to understand 2nd Thessalonians 2 one must know whom those scriptures are about, and whom it is that falls away and goes into apostasy. As I stated early on, the end-time prophecies, including the ones in 2nd Thessalonians 2, are about a people called the ten kings out of the fourth kingdom upon the earth. (Daniel 7:24) In Revelation 17 we find that the ten kings are upon BABYLON THE GREAT. Actually they're the host people of BABYLON THE GREAT. They're the latter-day European Americans. It is they that have fallen away and have gone into apostasy.
Well, I'm interested in us looking into whether and how this might be the case, but we need to be methodical about it. I'm glad to have your participation, Faye--I didn't comment earlier because I didn't very well understand what you were posting and was waiting to see if you would explain a little better. So--can you show which scriptures specifically address what you're claiming? When you say "the end-time prophecies, including the ones in 2nd Thessalonians 2, are about a people called the ten kings out of the fourth kingdom upon the earth. (Daniel 7:24)" I get a little nervous because it sounds like you are categorically saying that ALL end-time prophecies are about these people, and I have a hard time reconciling that with what I see in the Bible. Could you explain that a little better please? I see somewhere around 20% or more of the entire Bible taken up in end-time prophecies of one type or another, and while some of them are no doubt talking about the group you are discussing, I certainly can't state that ALL the passages are talking about them. Welcome to the board, if I didn't say so before. Thanks for the welcome, Jim, and to any and all who've welcomed me.
I am fairly certain that God chose to use for the timeline of Christ's second coming, events which have occurred in America over the years. You'll understand why I believe this as you read more of my interpretations.
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faye
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Post by faye on Jul 7, 2017 11:34:18 GMT -6
19 “Then I wanted to know the meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with its iron teeth and bronze claws—the beast that crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. 20 I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell—the horn that looked more imposing than the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully. 21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the holy people and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the holy people of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.
Yep - it's a beast according to the scriptures.
The fourth beast is a reference to the European Kingdom and to England from which the little horn (America) and the European Americans (the ten kings) arose and came out of.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2017 12:01:23 GMT -6
I can't see it faye...Not currently. I'll Need some more time to make that work for me. maybe over the weekend it will click somehow. I currently view that as some specific people/nations.
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