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Post by hillary on Aug 1, 2017 12:58:32 GMT -6
Is there a general consensus in this group on bible codes / Equidistant Letter Sequence? To be honest, it doesn't sit well in my spirit but it seems a lot of people I respect give them credibility. I don't know a ton about them and so admit my inexperience and ignorance. Do any of you have experience with them, opinions, scriptural endorsements, etc? Would like to confirm whether or not they are good, or something to stay away from.
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Post by mike on Aug 1, 2017 13:19:34 GMT -6
Is there a general consensus in this group on bible codes / Equidistant Letter Sequence? To be honest, it doesn't sit well in my spirit but it seems a lot of people I respect give them credibility. I don't know a ton about them and so admit my inexperience and ignorance. Do any of you have experience with them, opinions, scriptural endorsements, etc? Would like to confirm whether or not they are good, or something to stay away from. Personally I never gave them any heed. I do find some things in this type to be interesting such as the year being 5777, but not much more than that. I've always looked at it as being a bit "mystic". For me, if its not in the bible, I will consider it, but wont absolutely base faith on it. for example we know from Genesis 6 (and others) that nephilim existed "before the flood and after that" but not much other detail. I have read the book of Enoch and due see how it can make the case for the detail that is not in the bible. Well there's that along with archeological evidence. There's also history to consider when reviewing the Word. For example the somewhat debated 9:26-27, which some believe was fulfilled (Antiochus) yet other think it refers to the 70th week. As for the codes themselves, have any been incorrect? IDK. I have my hands full with the scripture, extra biblical texts and history. Hopefully that helps make my point |
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Post by kjs on Aug 1, 2017 13:34:45 GMT -6
Equidistant Letter Sequence code has already proven to be a statistical anomaly that can occur in any large volume of literature. The way you see it used by most Youtubers -- is building supposed matrices that have various smaller worlds within the mix with larger words. For example year 2012 was linked to the end of world along various names representing the AC and the like..... Nothing panned out on the matrix. One Youtuber, has had the Messiah returning in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 and yes even now 2017 --- yes, the same youtuber made all of these predictions based upon ELS Matrices -- and no none of them was true. Some codes Like the one Dr. Missler discovered -- seem point on -- and may be true (but highly doubtful that some formula can be developed to repeat it.) www.khouse.org/articles/1996/44/print/ -- can be found here but in summary it shows that names of the descendants from Adam to Noah revealed God's plan of redemption....
Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest. |
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Post by hillary on Aug 1, 2017 15:58:05 GMT -6
I really appreciate your feedback, kjs & mike. I think I'm going to keep going my way & pass this by.
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Post by Connie on Aug 1, 2017 19:02:31 GMT -6
There are things that I find really exciting (signs in the heavenlies, dates that converge or align with incredible precision) and others that I think, huh-- well isn't that interesting and move along. Bible codes and gematria fall in that second category. I do believe God is big enough, powerful enough, amazingly wonderful enough to order all the minutia. If His thoughts are toward us continually, then why not? But on the other hand, those are side topic, confirming-type things and not primary data (if that makes any sense.) I don't think they are wrong, just not ringing my chimes so to speak. Others dig there and find jewels sometimes and I love it when they do. But you know, so many hours in the day and, IMO, our brothers and sisters are free to dig and share and then we can all rejoice together  Not like they're reading entrails or anything. |
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 1, 2017 23:17:49 GMT -6
I studied ELS code and purchased "Code Finder" software, which I still have on my computer.
My conclusion is that the pass or fail for this system is in the statistical relevance. For instance, a 3-letter word could be found thousands of times in various numeric sequences throughout the scripture. Some things don't show up at all, no matter how I tried, like America or Australia, but other things, like India, come up so often as to not be significant. I put quite a bit of time into figuring out whether it was useful or not, and concluded that, while there may or may not be some kind of significance, it WASN'T FOR ME. So now I really don't use it.
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Post by wateredseeds on Aug 30, 2017 17:02:13 GMT -6
I completely disagree with a consensus that finds them rubbish. Though i totally understand why people think they are. Statistically speaking, they CANNOT be found in any text with the same degree of expectancy as they exist in the hebrew old testament. I've been studying bible codes since i was about 13 years old. What i will say about them as a rule is this: 1. They record possibilities not final thoughts unless the event is already passed 2. They should not be looked at as prophetic in nature in and of themselves 3. They are more of a fingerprint of God than something to make predictions with It is possible to find "codes" in any text. It is NOT possible to find the length of alive and relevant codes as exist within the text of the bible. Unfortunately, MOST people who try to use bible codes do not understand statistical significance. So they find a word here and a word there in close proximity and think it is meaningful. They actually don't gain meaning until the statistics reach into the stratosphere. One of the best examples i can give a statistically great and RELEVANT bible code string is the Isaiah 53 codes. This string of codes was laid out in the book "bible code bombshell" by Edwin Sherman. It has since been expanded upon. There are those who are experts on bible codes that have a different opinion than to say they only record possibilities...but the problem is sometimes those people are wrong. Rabbi Glazerson who can be found on youtube and quoted in articles all over the place has made many good predictions...and many wrong predictions using the codes. While biblecodedigest.com takes the opinion that they are only possibilities and should not be regarded as prophetic in nature. Here is a link to the Isaiah 53 codes: www.biblecodedigest.com/page.php?PageID=488Obviously Isaiah 53 is a far more relevant text when dealing with Jesus specifically than something totally unrelated. That's another code phenomenon that doesn't happen in any given text. Bible codes do tend to place relevant codes from the surface text to the codes themselves. So when a bible passage deals with say an end times war, it usually has end times war codes in the ELS sequences. www.biblecodedigest.com/page.php?PageID=964I think anyone who wants to take a seriously look at this should probably throw out Michael Drosnin's books on the subject...and give bible code bombshell a shot. It is well researched and includes much from Rabbi's and experts. There have even been some jewish converts to christianity because of the codes and specifically Isaiah 53 codes. |
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Post by whatif on Aug 30, 2017 17:16:38 GMT -6
Thank you for the links, wateredseeds! By the way, that is an adorable picture you've chosen!
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 30, 2017 19:16:43 GMT -6
That's good to know, wateredseeds. I use "Code Finder" software and had to lay it aside because I couldn't tell if it was being relevant or not. I was also displeased with them for not allowing me to add to the user dictionary, as that would have been helpful. It would have also been very helpful to have an extensive list of all the most common names, places, and historical figures, too.
If there is all this to learn in there, and I do see signs that there is some, it would be nice to have sharper tools to use to bring it all out. I paid $40+ for this software and while I appreciate some of its capabilities, I could be more pleased.
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Post by wateredseeds on Aug 31, 2017 0:33:37 GMT -6
Watchman,
I used to use code search software. I had a pretty good program too. The problem is that in order for it to be statistically significant, you would more than likely have to have a very good understanding of ancient hebrew. The most significant ELS codes are strings of coherent lines stretching out for multiple words...and also connecting to other ELS codes in the same text group. Searching for a single word would very likely yield nothing without knowing the language very well. Which is one of the reasons i stopped searching myself. But i really do dig the signature of God on the codes. There are some really neat codes that do nothing more than prove that God had to have put them there. Such as in the first five books of the old testament, there is a code in each book that is a 50 space ELS. If i remember correctly the first 2 books Genesis and Exodus read as Torah and Torah. The Last 2 books of the 5 numbers and deuteronomy read as Torah spelled backwards. The middle book ELS says Yahshua. It's literally a signature pointing to Jesus. That's a very basic ELS code, and one of the core codes that caused many rabbi to look into the phenomenon. The kicker is that each of those codes wouldn't be considered significant by themselves....except for the content they each display and in their linear viewpoint they say so much more in coordination with those other codes.
I can't remember if what i said there is 100% accurate, but that is the basic understanding i remember from it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2017 1:43:45 GMT -6
Chuck Missler (one of my favourite bible teachers) pointed out some very interesting facts on bible codes, especially ELS.
For me, the crucial point on ELS is, they underline the validity of the bible but cannot and should not be taken to get a glimpse on what is to happen in the future.
The Isaiah 53 codes i.e. align in a very precise manner with the plaintext and this is, what I call watermark or (in a more technical way) checksum.
It proofs the authenticity of the plaintext.
Here is an interesting short video that gives you a clue.
Chuck Missler has written some very interesting and easy to read books on this.
I would strongly recommend this one: "Cosmic Codes, Hidden Messages From The Edge Of Eternity"
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 31, 2017 2:18:53 GMT -6
I've watched a number of videos on it. I agree, there is something to it. You are right, wateredseeds, that a better knowledge of the ancient texts increases one's ability to find anything significant. I'm just not at the point where I think it's really very profitable for me to undertake the project. I will enjoy studying it out in all the detail that our Lord gives us ATR.
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Post by barb84 on Sept 1, 2017 10:28:26 GMT -6
I haven't decided for myself yet. However, I know that God is amazingly able to have put them there if He chose to.
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Post by everyknee on Sept 8, 2017 11:57:01 GMT -6
I've looked at you-tube vids and read books for many years and asked God to reveal whatever he wanted to about these to me. The bottom line for me is thus:
1. They are legit.
2. They are not for preficting the future.
3. They are God's 'fingerprints' (as someone else so aptly described) that will be revealed in the future, of his limitless omniscience and brilliance in crafting the details of our lives - recorded beforehand to show his glory.
4. A small number of people have been led to study them. I think a good understanding of Greek and Hebrew is essential- therefore not many have this foundation, time, or interest to devote to this, and the reason being that's it's meant for later and not for prophecy now. I hope there will be times in the millennium where our Lord reveals all of this in conferences, rallies, meetings, whatever we will call them, and we will all ooh and ah at the genius it took to do it all.
5. I'll never argue with anyone who doesn't believe as I do. It's not important to our salvation whether I'm right or wrong.
I had one experience with codes a number of years ago when someone offered to do a name, BD, and location search for me and a few others. The surface text above the codes are important also, and when I got the results back my jaw just dropped because one of the surface verses included the name I've used for years as a password and user name. Of all the verses in the Bible, there was the one that couldn't have been more closely linked to my identity than if it had been my given name.
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Post by whatif on Sept 8, 2017 23:40:06 GMT -6
I had one experience with codes a number of years ago when someone offered to do a name, BD, and location search for me and a few others. The surface text above the codes are important also, and when I got the results back my jaw just dropped because one of the surface verses included the name I've used for years as a password and user name. Of all the verses in the Bible, there was the one that couldn't have been more closely linked to my identity than if it had been my given name. That is so awesome, everyknee! |
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Not like they're reading entrails or anything.
