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Post by tom67x on Sept 19, 2017 11:48:06 GMT -6
I was thinking about this topic in general and thought that if the "apostasy" means catching or falling away it really doesnt matter on the 18th of September does it? I thought to myself "isnt it evident that the world is apostate!". Kick God out of schools, kick God out of public, shame people who do right, praise for doing wrong, homosexual, transgender, transsexual, all gods are equal, all gods are the same, and so on and so on and so on. This is not just here in America, but in Israel, throughout Europe and even into Asia. As Daniel prayed in chapter 9 we are witnessing this before our eyes, and the outcome will be the second advent this time around 4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments; 5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments: 6 Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land. 7 O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee. 8 O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee. 9 To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him; 10 Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets. 11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. 12 And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem. 13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth. 14 Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice.Great point...I would answer that there's been a "falling away from faith" (which I do not personally believe is at all possible given God's sovereignty, omnipotence, and perfection) since...FOREVER! That's my take. It's the general Gospel call vs the effectual particular call in play here...which covers every person ever born as wholly culpable.
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Post by mike on Sept 19, 2017 12:07:10 GMT -6
tom67x we certainly see a similar parallel leading up to the days of Noah. I'm not quoting the below to point to the Nephilim, just to the topic in general. Men increased and the wickedness of the heart right along with it. FLOOD! Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
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Post by mike on Sept 28, 2017 19:25:10 GMT -6
I know some aren't in favor of him due to book sales but what he says here does tie to apostasy very well!
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Post by mike on Sept 28, 2017 19:26:30 GMT -6
Start watching around 8 minutes. Not sure how I start it at that point
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Post by jlr1701 on Sept 28, 2017 20:59:55 GMT -6
I find myself in a unique position on this issue, I think, because I walked away from my faith in Christ for 17 years, for what I thought were very good reasons at the time. I identified as an ex-Christian atheist, and I know of many others who still identify as such. Was I really saved before that happened? Did I really love the Lord? ABSOLUTELY YES!! And the same can be said of the ex-Christian atheists I still count as my friends. We all were once very enthusiastic, very committed Christians. I was saved when I was 19 years old, way back in 1985. Back then, I LOVED Charismatic-style praise and worship services, I often sang solos in church, I read the Bible every day, and I loved to pray. I was that Christian who hands out Chick tracts to convenience store clerks and toll booth operators. I told anyone who would listen about Jesus!
Let me tell you something... the loss of religious faith is just about the most painful thing you can go through in life! It's right up there with the loss of a loved one, because when you lose your faith in Christ, you HAVE lost a loved one! When my faith came tumbling down around me back in 2000 after I discovered some atheist sites and became convinced that God didn't actually exist, MY GOD DIED! I lost faith in the Savior I had once loved with all of my heart! When people lose their faith, it's not like they just shake their heads and think, "well, that all sounded nice but it's not really true" and then they just move on with life with a smile on their face. NO! Losing faith in God is AGONIZINGLY PAINFUL! And it leaves the victim flooded with anger, rage, fear, and all sorts of other negative emotions. And most ex-Christians stay very angry and also very bitter, and they feel hatred toward God and all things having to do with religious belief. I have been there and experienced this myself! I LIVED IT for 17 years!
So yes... the apostasy from the Christian faith is a very real thing! People are leaving the church in droves, in numbers unprecedented in history. And I was one of them! I don't mean this to sound ugly in any way, but I really don't care that much about word translation issues in English Bibles. I have LIVED THIS, and I know many other people who share a loss of faith that was very similar to mine. And I know how much pain they have experienced and how hard their hearts are toward God. The apostasy we are witnessing now is most definitely a sign of the times in which we live! And I think Satan must get a particularly twisted form of pleasure out of turning lovers of God into haters of God!
And regarding atheist websites like the ones I ran across way back in 2000... I just recently realized that ALL of them have the exact same goals:
1) To debunk the Bible (or at least to attempt to do so) 2) To lead Christians away from faith in Jesus Christ 3) To convince others who are not Christians that the Bible and the Christian faith are not worthy of their consideration
I believe it was God who allowed me to see this so clearly recently. If only I had realized this 17 years ago, my life since 2000 might have been very different. But I believe that God can and will use my experience for GOOD! And I pray every day for my ex-Christian friends that they will come to know the Lord again! And I pray that God will use ME in some way, large or small, to accomplish that!
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Post by whatif on Sept 29, 2017 2:11:03 GMT -6
I love Jonathan Cahn's books, mike! Thank you for posting the video! My husband and I are currently reading his new book, The Paradigm, and it's fascinating!
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Post by whatif on Sept 29, 2017 2:14:05 GMT -6
Thank you for the excellent post about your own experience, jlr1701!
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Post by kjs on Oct 2, 2017 14:13:40 GMT -6
jlr1701 -- your back in love with Jesus Christ and that is great!
But the terrible experiences which you share has nothing to do with THE apostasia -- for it would need to be a specific type of falling away.
That would mean you did not experience a "fallen away" -- but what some would claim was a season of rebellion.
Since your back, it shows God never leave nor forsakes one of His children -- no matter how "LOST" they end of living.
The many friends you say are in the midst of the same thing -- will also be returning -- if they were truly children of God. Since God never gives up on them, even though they seem to have turn their back on Him -- at least for a season.....
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Post by galen on Oct 3, 2017 3:20:34 GMT -6
I find myself in a unique position on this issue, I think, because I walked away from my faith in Christ for 17 years, for what I thought were very good reasons at the time. I identified as an ex-Christian atheist, and I know of many others who still identify as such. Was I really saved before that happened? Did I really love the Lord? ABSOLUTELY YES!! And the same can be said of the ex-Christian atheists I still count as my friends. We all were once very enthusiastic, very committed Christians. I was saved when I was 19 years old, way back in 1985. Back then, I LOVED Charismatic-style praise and worship services, I often sang solos in church, I read the Bible every day, and I loved to pray. I was that Christian who hands out Chick tracts to convenience store clerks and toll booth operators. I told anyone who would listen about Jesus! Let me tell you something... the loss of religious faith is just about the most painful thing you can go through in life! It's right up there with the loss of a loved one, because when you lose your faith in Christ, you HAVE lost a loved one! When my faith came tumbling down around me back in 2000 after I discovered some atheist sites and became convinced that God didn't actually exist, MY GOD DIED! I lost faith in the Savior I had once loved with all of my heart! When people lose their faith, it's not like they just shake their heads and think, "well, that all sounded nice but it's not really true" and then they just move on with life with a smile on their face. NO! Losing faith in God is AGONIZINGLY PAINFUL! And it leaves the victim flooded with anger, rage, fear, and all sorts of other negative emotions. And most ex-Christians stay very angry and also very bitter, and they feel hatred toward God and all things having to do with religious belief. I have been there and experienced this myself! I LIVED IT for 17 years! So yes... the apostasy from the Christian faith is a very real thing! People are leaving the church in droves, in numbers unprecedented in history. And I was one of them! I don't mean this to sound ugly in any way, but I really don't care that much about word translation issues in English Bibles. I have LIVED THIS, and I know many other people who share a loss of faith that was very similar to mine. And I know how much pain they have experienced and how hard their hearts are toward God. The apostasy we are witnessing now is most definitely a sign of the times in which we live! And I think Satan must get a particularly twisted form of pleasure out of turning lovers of God into haters of God! And regarding atheist websites like the ones I ran across way back in 2000... I just recently realized that ALL of them have the exact same goals: 1) To debunk the Bible (or at least to attempt to do so) 2) To lead Christians away from faith in Jesus Christ 3) To convince others who are not Christians that the Bible and the Christian faith are not worthy of their consideration I believe it was God who allowed me to see this so clearly recently. If only I had realized this 17 years ago, my life since 2000 might have been very different. But I believe that God can and will use my experience for GOOD! And I pray every day for my ex-Christian friends that they will come to know the Lord again! And I pray that God will use ME in some way, large or small, to accomplish that! I think there is the potential for a saved person to temporarily lose faith. If their faith was genuine God will bring them back. It does not equal loss of salvation if the salvation was at first real. A related case is in Islamic countries where Christians can go back to Islam under intense pressure. Will God abandon His most vulnerable children, surrendering even one to Satan?
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Post by mike on Oct 3, 2017 9:32:13 GMT -6
I love Jonathan Cahn's books, mike! Thank you for posting the video! My husband and I are currently reading his new book, The Paradigm, and it's fascinating! My mom is reading and giving me highlights. When she's done I'll peruse through it (if there's time-hope not)
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Post by whatif on Oct 3, 2017 21:17:55 GMT -6
Awesome, mike! And I hope there's not time, too!
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Post by bernie on Sept 22, 2018 12:29:46 GMT -6
I like Patrick Heron's video on this
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Post by bernie on Sept 22, 2018 12:31:48 GMT -6
I liked Patrick Heron video on this issue and lean in this direction, but who knows:
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Post by fitz on Sept 22, 2018 13:20:39 GMT -6
There has been apostasy in the church almost since the very beginning. I believe it's best read "departure".
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david
New Member
Posts: 33
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Post by david on Sept 22, 2018 15:11:10 GMT -6
There has been apostasy in the church almost since the very beginning. I believe it's best read "departure". Andy Woods has been saying this a while. I have his book about it and here is a video:
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