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Post by watchmanjim on Jul 21, 2017 22:49:10 GMT -6
I was reading this passage tonight, and found it very convicting. It made me sad for those "servants" of Christ who are not doing what they should be doing.
I'm not going to give my interpretations of this passage first--I want to hear what you all think about it first.
Luk 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
Luk 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Luk 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
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Post by rt on Jul 27, 2017 7:35:55 GMT -6
I think it is similar to the ten virgins parable along with other parables. That they are called servants, shows that they claim to follow Christ, but the implication is that there are faithful and wise servants, and unfaithful foolish servants. The faithful servant is wise, like the wise virgins, who are stewards of God's word, feeding his household God's spiritual food (the word). The virgins walk by the light of God's word too, fueling it with the work of the Holy Spirit in their lives. The faithful servant, like the wise virgins, live life in a manner pleasing to the Lord, because they know that He is coming soon and want to be found faithful by Him when He returns.
The passage you quote seems to be directed toward those stewards who rule over God's household, those who are commissioned to teach and preach the word. He treats those under His care with love, taking care to provide them with the food to sustain their faith. But if the servant acts like the return of the Lord is not imminent and mistreats those under his care, neglecting his duty to nurture them with God's word while pandering to his own flesh in drunkenness then he is considered an unbeliever.
The point of the parable is that there are those among us (believers), in this case those who are teachers or leaders (of the household) who claim to follow the Lord and His word, who know what it says yet ignore it and do not act on what it says themselves, they are really not believers at all. It is not enough to know, one must act upon the knowledge, one must truly believe what God says is true and in doing so faith's fruit will be evident in their lives..
True belief builds its foundation on the Rock of Jesus, acting on God's word builds our house of faith. To hear and not act, leaves one's so-called faith, without any foundation.
And it makes me sad too.
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Post by kjs on Jul 27, 2017 8:37:48 GMT -6
Sorry RT -- you took the Romans 2:13 passage out of context -- trying to make it say something it does not.
Here is what you said ....
Romans 2:13
13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
Here is the context of the passage ...
12 For all who have sinned apart from the Law will also perish apart from the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law. 13 For it is not merely those who hear the Law who are righteous in God’s sight. No, it is those who follow the Law, who will be justified. 14 For whenever gentiles, who do not possess the Law, do instinctively what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law. 15 They show that what the Law requires is written in their hearts, a fact to which their own consciences testify, and their thoughts will either accuse or excuse them 16 on that day when God, through Jesus the Messiah, will judge people’s secrets according to my gospel.
Paul has directed this quote to the Jewish (Israel) listeners -- basically saying -- you who have the Law (ie Jews) -- if you follow ALL the LAW (implied - not stated) you will be justified.
Paul then finishes in 16 .... on that day (Judgement Seat) when God, through Jesus the Messiah, will judge people’s secrets according to my gospel.
In other words, Judged by their faith in Jesus Christ and his completed work --- by Faith alone.
Point is NO ONE fully follows the LAW -- therefore NO ONE will be justified because of it!
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Post by kjs on Jul 27, 2017 8:59:54 GMT -6
I was reading this passage tonight, and found it very convicting. It made me sad for those "servants" of Christ who are not doing what they should be doing. I'm not going to give my interpretations of this passage first--I want to hear what you all think about it first. Luk 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? Luk 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Luk 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. Let's back up a few verses .... 41 Peter asked, “Lord, are you telling this parable just for us or for everyone?” 42 The Lord said, “Who, then, is the faithful and careful servant manager whom his master will put in charge of giving all his other servants their share of food at the right time? 43 How blessed is that servant whom his master finds doing this when he comes! ----- It appears it (the parable) is given to the LEADERS / OVERSEERS ---- ironically; (in that Peter was the one asking the question) -- gets answered for us over in John John 21
15 When they had finished breakfast, Jesus asked Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?”
Peter[e] told him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”
Jesus[f] told him, “Feed my lambs.”
16 Then he asked him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?”
Peter[g] told him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”
Jesus[h] told him, “Take care of my sheep.” 17 He asked him a third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?”
Peter was deeply hurt that he had asked him a third time, “Do you love me?” So he told him, “Lord, you know everything. You know that I love you!”
Jesus told him, “Feed my sheep."Notice how your translation is described as meat -- whereas the ISV translation is described as FOOD.....
The People of God -- are ALWAYS refereed to as SHEEP (and if you know anything of sheep they are pretty DUMB animals )
Sheep need cared for and guided -- they even need to be told when and what to eat.
The parable appears to be directed at those who will be "overseeing" the sheep ---
So are you gathering new sheep (ie new converts) , are you caring for the sheep (helping them over come their everyday problems), are you TEACHING the sheep (feeding them the bread of life)
OR are you living in your own little world ... making sure your wants and needs are taken care of .... never reaching out and helping the sheep placed in your care........
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Post by socalexile on Jul 27, 2017 9:04:35 GMT -6
Just don't get into the trap of thinking that Matthew 25 or Luke 12 is about saved Christians. ALL born-again believers, whether given to sin or not, are going to be raptured. This is apparent from 1 Thessalonians 5 and Paul's changing of the word for "sleep" there. Paul uses two words for "sleep" in his writings. He uses both in 1 Thess. 4 and 5. In 1 Thess 4, the word is koimaō, like in v.15. This is Paul's word for dead Christians, to differentiate them from the dead unbelievers. In 1 Thess. 4 he uses that word to let the readers know that those believers that are physically dead will not miss the rapture. www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2837&t=KJV1 Thess. 5 is where it gets interesting. In verses 6 and 10 he switches to another word for sleep, katheudō, which according to BLB can metaphorically mean "yield to sloth and sin" or "to be indifferent to one's salvation". Why the switch if he meant the same thing as koimao earlier? Read verse 6, it makes no sense if he's talking about physically dead people. He's talking about not being given to sin and instead being alert for the Lord's return. And it's the same word in v.10., 9. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10. Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him Did you read that? Whether or not we are spiritually awake or yielded to sin, we will be with the Lord! www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2518&t=KJVEdit: I know many Christians reject this idea, but most of those it seems don't understand or believe the doctrine of the Bema Seat, where Christians are to be judged separately from unbelievers. They go to the Great White Throne Judgment in Revelation 20 and we go to the Bema Seat judgement. This explains: bible.org/article/doctrine-rewards-judgment-seat-bema-christ |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jul 27, 2017 12:48:25 GMT -6
I was reading this passage tonight, and found it very convicting. It made me sad for those "servants" of Christ who are not doing what they should be doing. I'm not going to give my interpretations of this passage first--I want to hear what you all think about it first. Luk 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? Luk 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Luk 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. Let's back up a few verses .... 41 Peter asked, “Lord, are you telling this parable just for us or for everyone?” 42 The Lord said, “Who, then, is the faithful and careful servant manager whom his master will put in charge of giving all his other servants their share of food at the right time? 43 How blessed is that servant whom his master finds doing this when he comes! ----- It appears it (the parable) is given to the LEADERS / OVERSEERS ---- ironically; (in that Peter was the one asking the question) -- gets answered for us over in John John 21
15 When they had finished breakfast, Jesus asked Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?”
Peter[e] told him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”
Jesus[f] told him, “Feed my lambs.”
16 Then he asked him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?”
Peter[g] told him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”
Jesus[h] told him, “Take care of my sheep.” 17 He asked him a third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?”
Peter was deeply hurt that he had asked him a third time, “Do you love me?” So he told him, “Lord, you know everything. You know that I love you!”
Jesus told him, “Feed my sheep."Notice how your translation is described as meat -- whereas the ISV translation is described as FOOD.....
The People of God -- are ALWAYS refereed to as SHEEP (and if you know anything of sheep they are pretty DUMB animals )
Sheep need cared for and guided -- they even need to be told when and what to eat.
The parable appears to be directed at those who will be "overseeing" the sheep ---
So are you gathering new sheep (ie new converts) , are you caring for the sheep (helping them over come their everyday problems), are you TEACHING the sheep (feeding them the bread of life)
OR are you living in your own little world ... making sure your wants and needs are taken care of .... never reaching out and helping the sheep placed in your care........
Perhaps I need to post my essay about Sheep....being a shepherd I have an opinion about them Biblically...everyone calls them "dumb" but I disagree... To add a comment to this, I look at what Jesus is saying to Peter like this: “Feed my lambs.” Lambs eat milk...we know as Believers, that milk is the Word simple and direct, especially when we are new believers. “Take care of my sheep.” Caring for sheep involves protection and keeping them herded together and leading to good pasture.. “Feed my sheep." this is where the meat of the Word comes in. Hearty food for nourishment. Feeding is not the same thing as Caring... I know I am splitting hairs here, and I am not disagreeing with the above comments. But the order of tending to one's flock is feeding the new believer, keeping them and directing to stay within the herd and, finally giving them real substance of the Word to sustain them...I cherish the beauty of God's Word and the deeper meaning within... |
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Post by kjs on Jul 27, 2017 13:25:41 GMT -6
I am by no means an expert on sheep (nor am I a Shepard)
I did have a relative who had a small herd -- mainly for goat milk (go figure) and he delighted us with several amusing stories about the sheep.
Based on the stories -- they tend to wander off and get into all kinds of trouble.....
If one of the leader sheep -- gets into the fencing and trapped --- soon most of the others will be in the same predicament.....
One thing I did learn (even with a small herd) -- they need to be taken care of....
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Post by watchmanjim on Jul 27, 2017 23:02:20 GMT -6
Well I can agree with Barbio about sheep not being dumb. If people observe sheep's behavior and take it to be dumb, it is merely that people don't understand the reasons that sheep do what they do.
Under proper circumstances, sheep can take care of themselves quite well and even go for weeks or months at a time without human intervention. For the last few months I had sheep, I put mine in a pasture on somebody else's property and only went to look at them once a week or so. My old matriarch ewe was attacked by a coyote that jumped over the fence and she evidently inflicted enough bodily harm on it that ran off, and no, she didn't have horns. We found a bite taken out of her back, but it barely broke the skin--the coyote got a big mouthful of wool.
We did have to give the sheep extra care at lambing time, as now and again we had to assist in birth. The sheep are extremely wary, watching for predators and such at all times. They're also fairly resourceful in terms of finding food, water, and other necessities.
Like housecats, they do not show obedience to humans and it's difficult to teach them to do tricks or whatever, like dogs or horses can. They just aren't wired that way. They are very vigilant and crafty, and they have a massive "flock mentality" that they use as defense against predators and loss. They are vulnerable to large predators such as bears or wolves that they are simply too small to fight back against.
I have worked with most common species of livestock at one time or another (horses, cows (dairy and beef), pigs, sheep, goats, and chickens. They are all intelligent to a degree but each species has its own "programming" by the Creator. Goats think "up." Pigs think "down." Horses think "out." Cats think "in."
The least intelligent group I've had to deal with is probably dairy cows, and I attribute this to centuries of selective breeding for docility and other traits not conducive to survival and independence. Most dairy cows, especially holsteins, would probably die out as a population within a few short years of living on the open range without human intervention.
Having said that, there is also a lot of variability from breed to breed, and with individuals within each breed or crossbreed.
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paul
Layman
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son...
Posts: 96 
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Post by paul on Jul 28, 2017 6:41:46 GMT -6
It's better to be Christ-centered and Christ-occupied rather then self-centered and self-occupied... When we look at ourselves we will be depressed. When we look at others we will be distressed. But when we look at Jesus we will be blessed!  So the faithful and wise steward whom his lord shall make ruler over his household is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself!!! No wonder that steward is in singular. "Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also [was faithful] in all His house...And Moses indeed [was] faithful in all His house as a servant...but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are..." (Heb 3:1-2,5-6) Consider Jesus my brethren!  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 12:03:10 GMT -6
Love that Paul.... I'm living it out these past couple of days. I'm in the valley and keeping my heart, mind and soul on Jesus.
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Post by rt on Jul 31, 2017 22:25:03 GMT -6
It's better to be Christ-centered and Christ-occupied rather then self-centered and self-occupied... When we look at ourselves we will be depressed. When we look at others we will be distressed. But when we look at Jesus we will be blessed! So the faithful and wise steward whom his lord shall make ruler over his household is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself!!! No wonder that steward is in singular. "Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also [was faithful] in all His house...And Moses indeed [was] faithful in all His house as a servant...but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are..." (Heb 3:1-2,5-6) Consider Jesus my brethren! Hi Paul, I like that first bit- about being Christ centered and Christ occupied and looking only to Jesus- it is so true! Thanks for that! I think the parable can work both ways- with Jesus as the faithful steward and also with leaders and teachers of the church as faithful stewards. Though I tend toward the latter, only because the master returns to find out who is faithful and who is not, Jesus doesn't return to find Himself. The master is clearly Jesus who is "coming" to either reward the faithful or assign the unfaithful a place with unbelievers. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2017 7:59:46 GMT -6
It feels both prophetic and convicting. King Jesus tells me multiple things:
1. You know I'm coming. Get to work.
2. If I can't trust you with these simple instructions and commands, I unfortuently won't be able to trust you with a large kingdom.
3. Get witnessing.
That was just what I think King Jesus flashed through my mind.
My normal interpretation is this: Jesus is coming. People should stay aware and work well; they will expect his return. The unfaithful Wil say they don't think Christ is coming, and this He comes by surprise and be tossed into the Lake of Fire. This is not a believer, for believers are not appointed to wrath.
A person who does wrong but didn't know will suffer light, yet eternal, torment in the LoF. A person who actively rejected the truth will suffer heavy, eternal torment.
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 1, 2017 11:02:36 GMT -6
Yep, those thoughts match my own, Beloved.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2017 6:06:40 GMT -6
I, too, am having many confirmations that the time is upon us. My witnessing has stepped up(without intent on my part)... just happens. Everything I feared of coming deceptions, have been shown to me as 'why' the rapture was created. i.e. If a person turns from a forceful religion/organization to God- The entity that they WERE part of Would naturally not allow them to renounce or give them their walking papers. So I always worried would God hold them accountable if they couldn't get out because someone else wouldn't let them out. He showed me that is why there is a rapture, because before any of that becomes enforced, those who have turned to the Lord will be taken out, so it will be of none effect. For I looked up beheading the other day and it's history. I found that Rome beheaded its own citizens and crucified others. I began to hurt to think that an organization would behead their own and realized that the only way they would do that is if one we're not conform. I worried it would happen again, and I know so many who have left organizations but not so called 'officially'. My question was with those organizations claim those people because they had it on a roll somewhere? The Holy Spirit explain to me this is what the rapture is all about!
Also right in the middle of a prayer this weekend came a random thought that said twice, " I am coming soon". Followed by "you are going to feel more loved than you could ever imagine". I was praising Him, so it really caught my attention for such a comforting statement to interrupt my praise.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2017 6:10:57 GMT -6
Also, I have had more teaching moments than ever! They just seem to come daily, and some of the lessons are very hard😩 that he is showing me of the Scriptures and application of His Word . Again, some have been very difficult as in I almost felt like a Jeremiah , Hosea, or Elijaha, feeling very alone! But once the lesson is over I am totally blessed by the experience and the understanding of the Scriptures.
He's coming.
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