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Post by cwood85 on Aug 19, 2019 9:25:46 GMT -6
Jumping from the "mark" thread here. I have a question or two about restoring all things. First I will reiterate, I do not wish to argue so please understand why I ask the questions I have. I respect this view on scripture and while I don't agree (at least yet) I see where the argument can be made for it. So please understand I am not challenging this view rather trying to understand it more as there are some applications where I don't see it fit A few weeks back BSG posted something about how a non-believer would not have benefits of reading Greek or understanding things could be translated better. Please keep that in mind as the questions I ask are from a non-believer or atheitstuc view. My question to you or others is 1. I view Heaven as being with Jesus for eternity. He is the desire I/we have. A place without time dwelling with the Savior and His Father. If one does not want to accept Christ as Savior as some atheists state, why would the Lord force one to be with Him for eternity at some eventual point? Even if after purification in the Lake of Fire?Part b to this - why don't we who believe need further purification too? If on a deathbed someone received Christ, changing their heart and mind about who He is - why shouldn't that person experience some type of "time" being purified too? I suppose this would apply to everyone who believes regardless of how long they may believe. 2. I love the Lord and believe in Him and share my faith and expirences with people. But if the Lord will save all, why urge being saved now as opposed to waiting until after they pass or He returns? Why not indulge in the flesh, maybe die sooner to be rid of this world then be purified? I may have others to ask but think I should pause here Quoting you here just to answer this specific bolded part in your post I know this is brought up a lot and it is always based on our free will, being in control by making our own choice, not being a robot and so fourth. But it's not what scripture says will happen... and it's almost like we ignore these verses or do mental somersaults to make them mean something they clearly do not. Not anyone specifically, but saying that in a generalized way. This is said three times in the bible, which I guess means it probably pretty important and something we need to really meditate on: "For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD." Romans 14:11
"By Myself I have sworn; truth has gone out from My mouth, a word that will not be revoked: Every knee will bow before Me, every tongue will confess allegiance." Isaiah 45:23
"9For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:9-11
Seems pretty straightforward as to what everyone is going to do, and not out of force, but genuine coming to the knowledge and acceptance. There is also this which is from one of my favorite books of the bible. There are many more beyond these verses both from the old and the new testaments. "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:4
Every Knee will bow + Every tongue will confess that Christ is Lord + All men to be saved + come to the knowledge of the truth = ??
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Post by cwood85 on Aug 18, 2019 9:53:23 GMT -6
Cwood could I consider your view somewhat Calvinistic in that those who are blind have no choice? Although this would be slightly different in view that even though they've no choice they will get one at some point? When you have time I am interested in replies to my other questions about "purification" of those who die in unbelief and those saved a day or lifetime No not Calvinism because the idea of it literally makes me ill. God would create some to save and some to destroy or torment for forever? From the foundation of the world? How is that any different than genocide or abortion? I believe salvation in the means of sins forgiven is complete for all of humanity and that was done on the cross and there isn’t a thing anymore can do to overturn that or invalidate it. Not a choice, not a mark, not the most evil of sin of all time, because that would mean our choice or a mark or a sin is bigger and more powerful than God and His abilities. I will comment more on your other questions shortly
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Post by cwood85 on Aug 17, 2019 23:57:31 GMT -6
Jumping from the "mark" thread here. I have a question or two about restoring all things. First I will reiterate, I do not wish to argue so please understand why I ask the questions I have. I respect this view on scripture and while I don't agree (at least yet) I see where the argument can be made for it. So please understand I am not challenging this view rather trying to understand it more as there are some applications where I don't see it fit A few weeks back BSG posted something about how a non-believer would not have benefits of reading Greek or understanding things could be translated better. Please keep that in mind as the questions I ask are from a non-believer or atheitstuc view. My question to you or others is 1. I view Heaven as being with Jesus for eternity. He is the desire I/we have. A place without time dwelling with the Savior and His Father. If one does not want to accept Christ as Savior as some atheists state, why would the Lord force one to be with Him for eternity at some eventual point? Even if after purification in the Lake of Fire? For an answer to the atheist rejecting Christ, we need to ask why are they rejecting this?
A) are they being told the gospel and then immediately told the consequences of not believing is eternal torment? That God really loves you, but if you do not make the right choice right now or hold the right beliefs, you will go to hell. I DONT care how that is sugar coated, that’s not good news, that’s a threat.
B) they possibly grew up in an extreme religious environment, like maybe a very legalistic or works based church. Maybe their experiences with Christianity was very judgmental or filled with hate. Look at how many groups of Christians stand on the sidelines of a pride parade holding signs that say God hates fags or homosexuals will burn in Hell! How pleasant and so encouraging for someone to hear and believe the gospel. 🤦🏼♀️
C) they were possibly abused, controlled or emotionally terrorized and manipulated all in the name of God by their abuser. That happens a lot unfortunately...
and maybe non of the above happened at all and the person just refuses to believe. Do we have so little faith in God that when the time comes to rise and He reveals his love to it fullest, that a person would still refuse? That He could not accomplish this? I have had a counter argument to this before with the Jews refusing to believe Jesus was the Messiah even with him there in person. Did they really fully refuse all at their own free will or were they in part blinded and deafened by God to not full understand. For example the parables Jesus gave and spoke of. He explained to the disciples he spoke this way because they were not meant to understand at that time. So their unbelief was not solely their choice because God didn’t allow them to understand and it wasn’t meant for all of them to believe. Jesus also wasn’t the savior they were looking for either. They basically wanted a warlord and instead had a peaceful loving servant. Here’s how I view the lake of fire, as a form of judgement. I like parent/ child analogies because well God is our father, our creator and knows what’s best for us even when we don’t realize it or want it. And that doesn’t make someone a robot. Veggies are good for kids and they need them in their diet. What if your kid refuses veggies, hates them so much and screams and cries when it is time to eat them? They need them to grow big and strong and being the parent you know what is good for them. They don’t because they don’t have the knowledge and live very much so in the moment. Their choices are based on how they feel right at that moment. So as a parent what do you do? Sadly sit there and feel disappointed that they refused and would not accept your offer and efforts to better them and make sure they are healthy and live a long life? Let the will of a 5 year old supersede your own? Give them free will to make their own choices on what is best for them to eat? No a good parent would enact their judgement until the kid ate their veggies. This could be in various forms, eat your veggies or go to your room for a time out. Eat your veggies or no dessert or goodies for a month! Maybe you try everything and still no avail your kid spits them out. You can’t force the veggies down their throat because that is cruel and abusive, but being the parent and having far more knowledge and wisdom than they do, you do whatever you can. Grind them up and put them in a burger, buy veggie pasta noodles instead of regular ones, make smoothies and throw in some carrots and spinach. You don’t give up and find a way to accomplish it. As a parent it is your will that they eat healthy to better them for the rest of their life. It is your desire that they like their veggies and gladly eat them, but not all do. Some are really stubborn little buggers and it takes different forms of discipline and action to enforce and see your will through and accomplished. Why is this so important? Because the parents will is better for the child’s than the child’s will due to their lack of knowledge of what is really good or bad for them. Is the parent forcing the child to do something they don’t like? Yep, but with love, guidance, and chastisement to correct the child’s decisions and to educate them. Would a parent disown their child for refusing and not accepting the parents offer of veggies for longer life and better health or dump gasoline on them and toss in a lit match? I know that is rather extreme, but that’s what we think our creator, savior and father of all fathers would do to us all based on a really bad choice!
Put a cookie in front of the child and 100% of the time they are going to choose that over a stick of celery. They don’t have a full understanding of the good for the long run, only what taste and feels good in that moment and their own concept of time.
Gods will is to do what is best for his creation and reconcile it to him. His plan is to make that happen and to be complete/accomplished. He says his will will be done and nothing can stop him. His judgement is not for destruction just like a loving parents is not. I would assume He is probably WAY better at being a parent then we are.I have more to say, but am out of time for tonight and will add more tomorrow. Part b to this - why don't we who believe need further purification too? If on a deathbed someone received Christ, changing their heart and mind about who He is - why shouldn't that person experience some type of "time" being purified too? I suppose this would apply to everyone who believes regardless of how long they may believe. 2. I love the Lord and believe in Him and share my faith and expirences with people. But if the Lord will save all, why urge being saved now as opposed to waiting until after they pass or He returns? Why not indulge in the flesh, maybe die sooner to be rid of this world then be purified? I may have others to ask but think I should pause here No arguments here and I will try to answer the best I can ☺️ I respect other peoples views and do not think badly of them or as with what I think or believe is better. I get these questions a lot and 99.9% of everyone here is very respectful of some of very different things I post or comment with. I cannot say that happens very much outside this forum. If you say there isn’t a Hell in other parts of the internet it usually results in being called a heretic or demonic lol 🤷♀️
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Post by cwood85 on Aug 17, 2019 13:36:22 GMT -6
cwood85 I also pose another question, find a bible verse that says we only have this lifetime to repent or a time limit or that God will not acknowledge it at the judgement seat. Does this work? Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.From John:19And this is the verdict(judgement): The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.” in the name of God’s one and only Son. •From second Corinthians 5 about the Lords judgement: ” 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive his due for the things done in the body, whether good or bad. •and later in the chapter: “ 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ, not counting men’s trespasses against them. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation.” To stay on topic with the original post in regards to the Mark however it may be, the Lake of Fire is Gods refining and consuming fire and the only thing that results in is being purified. In some older manuscripts is is referred to the divine lake of fire. Later death and Hades (Hell in some translations) goes into the Lake of fire as well. If the lake of fire is considered hell, than how can hell go into hell?
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Post by cwood85 on Aug 17, 2019 12:52:53 GMT -6
I went looking for an answer for you cwood. I found the question posted here (this website is Ravi Zacharias International Ministries). Here is part of one of the answers: Why would Jesus tell parables like these if there was a chance for these men after they died?
There is the verse "today is the day of salvation". 2 Corinthians 6:2 Sure sounds urgent. Why say this if the day of salvation can happen after you die?
Luke 12:15-21 is not about salvation but relying on the Lord and his abilities to provide for us and are efforts to ensure our life are basically futile because the lord is the one in control. Jesus explains this to the disciples and that God will provide. The parable of the rich rich man and Lazarus actually coincides a bit with Luke 12. No matter what we gain for ourselves in this life, materials, money, riches, nice clothes or mansions, it does not follow us to the grave. The rich man cares nothing for the poor man who was in his sight and only about himself. The rich man was in torture (testing or being checked for purity in The Greek, the word used here means touchstone) in his grave/hades. Jesus gave This parable for good reason and it wasn’t to warn of eternal torture in Hell, it was to warn of hoarding the materials and riches of this world will bring you no satisfaction or ensure your life and you will be miserable constantly trying to ensure your own life. It is no irony that this parable comes just a little before Jesus speaks to the rich young man telling him he will gain eternal life when he lets go of his riches. This greatly grieved this man and he couldn’t do it. Notice Jesus didn’t tell him he had to believe Jesus as his savior to gain eternal life, but to give up relying on this world and the things in it and also by following rules does not gain someone eternal life. Jesus is trying to teach this young man to rely on God to provide for his life and not himself. Right after this this happens the disciples upon witnessing this conversation were very worried and perplexed because by mans understanding and abilities eternal life is impossible! But Jesus reassured them saying what is impossible with men is only possible with God. So we must ask ourselves was Jesus telling the rich man to be perfect to ensure eternal life or trust that God can make the impossible possible and live by that. There is also a reason Jesus is referring to Moses and the prophets and Abraham is comforting and the grave is not. When ever either the Jews or the Pharisees objected to whatever ever Jesus was doing or saying, Moses or Abraham is always brought up. For example Jesus has to clarify God sent the Mana from heaven, not Moses and that Moses was dead. Those are just some thoughts of mine however on the subject. The parable of Lazarus and the rich man is a difficult parable and there are many many ideas as to what it is referring to. As far as 2 Corinthians: 1And working together with Him, we also urge you not to receive the grace of God in vain— 2for He says, “AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU, AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU.” Behold, now is “THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,” behold, now is “THE DAY OF SALVATION”— This is a quote from Isaiah: now says the LORD, who formed me from the womb to be His Servant, to bring Jacob back to Him, that Israel might be gathered to Him— for I am honored in the sight of the LORD, and my God is my strength— 6He says: “It is not enough for you to be My Servant, to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the protected ones of Israel. I will also make you a light for the nations, to bring My salvation to the ends of the earth.”7Thus says the LORD, the Redeemer and Holy One of Israel, to him who was despised and abhorred by the nation, to the servant of rulers: “Kings will see you and rise, and princes will bow down, because of the LORD, who is faithful, the Holy One of Israel, who has chosen you.” 8This is what the LORD says: “ In the time of favor I will answer you, and in the day of salvation I will help you;a I will keep you and appoint you to be a covenant for the people, to restore the land, to apportion its desolate inheritances, 9to say to the prisoners, ‘Come out,’ and to those in darkness, ‘Show yourselves.’They will feed along the pathways, and find pasture on every barren hill. 10They will not hunger or thirst, nor will the scorching heat or sun beat down on them. For He who has compassion on them will guide them and lead them beside springs of water. 11I will turn all My mountains into roads, and My highways will be raised up. 12Behold, they will come from far away, from the north and from the west,b and from the land of Aswan.c ” 13Shout for joy, O heavens; rejoice, O earth; break into joyful song, O mountains! For the LORD has comforted His people, and He will have compassion on His afflicted ones.
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Post by cwood85 on Aug 17, 2019 9:26:56 GMT -6
cwood85: Yes, those scriptures are encouraging. The problem at hand though is that many many many people seem to believe that those only apply up until the point of ones belief in Christ, and that *after* that, if you sin willfully, or return to a life of sin, etc., it is all invalidated. Something I have also accepted, is that I will never know for sure until my appointed time to leave earth. I have to accept that I may be condemned, and do my best to make peace with that, otherwise I will live my life in terror of what may be coming. I know this: If by some strange chance these people are right about such things, I am well past the point of no return. Let me ask a question in light of a few parables Jesus gave us. In the parable of the 99 sheep, did the lost sheep go looking for the shepherd and the shepherd stood around waiting for the lost sheep to find him with the other 99 sheep or did the SHEPARD go and LOOK for the lost? In the prodigal son, did the father reject his son after learning of his intentions for his inheritance? Did he send his son away when his son finally came back? Did the son repent to his father or to himself realizing he had been very mistaken to leave. What was his father doing when he did decide to go home? He was constantly scanning the horizon for as far as he could see LOOKING for his lost son and waiting with loving open arms. There was no condemnation, no judgement and no punishment. The brother however felt his brother did not DESERVE such good and joyful treatment because he made the choice to willfully sin and leave. The brother was jealous and angry because he thought his fathers judgement was UNJUSTIFIED and not PUNISHMENT. What was the fathers judgement? Love, grace, mercy and forgiveness and nothing else was shown to the lost son. In the parable of the lost coin, did the LOST coin go looking for the woman? No the woman searched every inch of her house and with a lit candle I might add to find the coin and when she did she rejoiced. There is a common theme in all three of these parables and a reason they were told at the same time, the Shepard, father, owner did the seeking and searching, never gave up and rejoiced when what was lost was found. God says “I will never forsake you or leave you.” Psalm 139 says “7Where can I go to escape Your Spirit? Where can I flee from Your presence? 8If I ascend to the heavens, You are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, You are there. 9If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle by the farthest sea, 10even there Your hand will guide me; Your right hand will hold me fast. 11If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me, and the light become night around me”— 12even the darkness is not dark to You, but the night shines like the day, for darkness is as light to You. 13For You formed my inmost being;a You knit me together in my mother’s womb. 14I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.” neural have faith my friend in the love and mercy of the Lord. You said in your first post here that all sin has been forgiven and no one can escape the salvation and grace of the Lord. There is no burning Hell people will be sent to for eternity. The only consuming and burning fire is God himself and his fire is refining and purifying for the good, not for destruction and damnation. It said the sodom and Gomorrah burn forever, which the physical cities are in that state, they are gone forever. Look however what is said about the CITIZENS of these cities who practiced sadistic sexual abuse and rape on a constant basis. These people were broken to the point of no return in this life and God was being merciful by destroying the cities to stop the horrible abuses that were happening. “But I will restore Sodom and her daughters from captivity, as well as Samaria and her daughters. And I will restore you along with them.” I also pose another question, find a bible verse that says we only have this lifetime to repent or a time limit or that God will not acknowledge it at the judgement seat.
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Post by cwood85 on Aug 16, 2019 22:31:05 GMT -6
neural , But He said to me, “ My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly in my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest on me. “16For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world that He might judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18The one believing in Him is not judged, but the one not believing already has been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.19And this is the judgement, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light; for their deeds were evil. 20For everyone practicing evil hates the Light and does not come to the Light, so that his works may not be exposed; 21but the one practicing the truth comes to the Light, that his works may be manifest as having been done in God.” 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.• And a few verses from Laminations, a book that doesn’t seem to get referenced as much as it should. It’s a beautiful book of bible. 22The steadfast love of the LORD never ceases; his mercies never come to an end;23they are new every morning; great is your faithfulness. 31For the Lord will not reject forever, 32For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the sons of men. The lords grace does not have limitations and is not limited by our sin, it is strengthened and more abundant by it. Where sin abounds grace abounds. There is no sin his grace has not covered or forgiven.
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Post by cwood85 on Aug 14, 2019 11:07:14 GMT -6
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Post by cwood85 on Aug 13, 2019 18:26:52 GMT -6
neural says: “But... if a member of a family chose not to participate, the sins would not be forgiven in the same way that the food would not give him sustenance. You have to accept the gift of Grace through Jesus in order to benefit from it, but EVERYONE is offered the gift. EVERYONE has had all of their sins forgiven. Faith is how one claims their gift of salvation. It is how we say "Yes Lord! The sacrifice You made was for my sin, and I need that sacrifice to cover my sins!"
My point here in this part is that Jesus died for the sins of all mankind, including everyone from that gentle old woman down the street, to the most ruthless killers (Stalin, and similar individuals included).”
Amen from the rooftops!
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Post by cwood85 on Aug 3, 2019 20:49:45 GMT -6
The major financial breeches that have been exposed reveal some rather interesting information.
Equifax, one of three credit reporting companies was hacked. Over 147 million peoples information was breeched in an identity theft plot. I learned something today that I didn’t know or even gave a second thought about because this process of a credit score has always existed in my lifetime. What I learned was how these credit companies make money and have basically become the controlling force of what a person is able to do financially. Basically how much bondage can one be placed under or lessen its grips.
Credit Bureaus make money by collecting all of our financial data and payment history via our social security number and selling it to make it available for whoever needs to see it and use it to determine if someone can purchase a car, phone, utilities, a place to live by either renting or mortgaging, car insurance rates, cable, open a bank account or practically any type of account.
A persons credit score is even checked when they apply for a job and is a determining factor in their job eligibility. All of this information is collected on us without our consent and sold off to be used either against or for us without our constant. We get no compensation of any sort for our personal information being bought and sold against our will. It has been happening for so long however that majority have developed Stockholm syndrome and accept it as a normal part of life. Most of us try to do what we can to in an essence keep up a good grade by constantly working to have a high credit score. The spectrum of things that a persons credit score can be compared to or used as a determining factor for what seems to be a growing number of necessities is growing broader and broader.
What is our credit scores main function? It’s used to control how is loaned and how deserving a person is to do business with or to employ. It’s all about money.
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Post by cwood85 on Aug 3, 2019 18:27:23 GMT -6
Was thinking more about my reply and realized I missed a component which should align with yours cwood. The pastor here stated something to the effect that Satan can't really harm believers. His dominance over humanity was broken, but only for those who accept the truth. With that I think Satan is very powerful indeed but no where near the greater One who lives in us With referring to Satan being a nothing, that is not meant to infer that he cannot do anything or has no affect or influence but quiet the opposite. That influence and ability is not absent from believers and I don’t agree with that pastor saying that Satan cannot influence or tempt someone who claims to be a believer. Maybe that belief he views is tied into seeing Satan as always wrestling or competing with God for our souls. When I talk of him being a nothing it is meant as he is the ultimate absence of light, love, and the truth. He is the utter absence of anything good. He is the darkness. I also do not believe Satan was once the highest arch angel and then fell from heaven and the passage that is always tied to this is talking about pride and the sin and lawlessness of humans thinking we are like God or a god. Those thoughts and the actions that follow as a result of acting in pride of oneself and abilities are acts of disobedience and this is the root of sin. Satan was created for a purpose and isn’t an accident, just like placing the tree of good and evil in Eden wasn’t an accident. I am not here to debate that however and I know many believe Satan was once a glorious cherub angel. The passage in Jude about Micheal and Satan is often thought as Satan trying to steal Moses body for himself. Satan does not harbor souls, Satan means accuser and that is why Michael was rebuking him because Satan was most certainly accusing the one chosen by God to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. “9But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” Michael was telling Satan the Lord will strongly disapprove and chastise him and we read later on in the book of revelation how this happens. Michael has no authority to do such a thing, only God does.
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Post by cwood85 on Aug 2, 2019 21:52:45 GMT -6
I watched 8 minutes into it and will have to watch the rest later.
BUT I am already hearing something that is very assumed and at least not that I know of biblical. In the video the speaker claims Satan ruled over the earth before Adam and Eve the same way Adam and Eve were given authority over the earth. But because Satan sinned and was the prized creation before Adam and Eve, he lost his dominion. Is he implying Adam and Eve were in an essence a round 2? Welp Gods first top creation of supreme beauty and intelligence just blew it, so let’s try this again. I am understanding this correctly? I don’t want to jump to a final conclusion without watching the whole video, but if that’s where he is going with that, it’s a bit concerning tbh. Did he forgot about the other previous chapters of Genesis?
Here is what Satan is and always has been, a nothing. Darkness isn’t a real thing, it is just the absence of light. There is love and then there is the absence of love, to be void of love. Some will say well hate is the opposite of love, but it’s not. Hate is the absolute loathing of something and that something could be for the good. I hate the violence in the world and that hate stems from love. God hates things, the Bible is pretty clear on that and his hate is based on love. To feel that much, to have that much loathing and passion against or for something or even someone can only be done when the other side of it has been experienced, love.
Satan causes us to be nothing like him when we are tempted and fall. When we are nothing we are destroyed and experience destruction. Satan fools us to think we can control things that are out of our control, inflates our pride and vanity. When we believe this we fall, fail and are in darkness. We hide in the shadow of ourselves rather than face the light and the Good graces and mercies of God.
Adam and Eves sin was thinking they could be like God, and disobedience resulted from both of them acting in their sin. Instead of resting in the Good and knowing the good of God, they saw it hanging on a tree and tried to consume and control the good thinking it would make them good. They were already good, God said they were good when He created them, they just didn’t know or believe it so they tried to make themselves good by their own works and choices. They thought they could make themselves good because of pride and vanity, which has always been their since the beginning like Isaiah says. They believed a nothing who only wanted to see them become nothing like him and fall into destruction.
Satan never had anything and he cannot create anything.
It’s the same story with humanity happening over and over since day one,
We believe we can make ourselves good and constantly try to make ourselves good by taking and controlling it instead of resting and believing the only one who is good when He said we are VERY GOOD in His eyes. since the beginning.
Satan doesn’t want us to know or believe that.
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Post by cwood85 on Jul 24, 2019 22:10:19 GMT -6
stormyknight , Just for the sake of clarification, I am referring to the Calvinistic view of predestination, which is NOT what Paul was talking about here in Ephesians. Paul is clarifying in such a beautiful way that all things in creation, in heaven and on earth are now Christ and have been united in Him by Him. “3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5he predestined usb for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9making knownc to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.11In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is the guaranteed of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,e to the praise of his glory.
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Post by cwood85 on Jul 24, 2019 20:30:38 GMT -6
****hands yardstick a tissue for his nosebleed**** Don’t get down just yet and I hope there is room for two on that box of yours. You say: “Is being right a good work? Is that what being a servant of God is all about? It's no wonder the world hates us. We give them the excuse!” I agree with your statement above but maybe at a different angle or reason. We for sure give them more than enough of an excuse. For starters I don’t think Barbio is trying to be right or prove anyone or particular translations or translators as wrong. What I gather from hers and the entirety of this thread for that matter is to get people, anyone, to think outside of the box. To instead of solely relying on mans interpretation, seek the Holy Spirit or at least give it a try! Not saying anyone isn’t doing that. It’s encouragement, not belittling or I am right and you wrong. It’s looking at all the angles and climbing out of the rigid doctrinal walls and ways. There is nothing wrong with questioning things or teachings. Even “sound” ones. The Pharisees and similar where the knowledgeable ones, the educated and wise ones. The bit on Hermès is fascinating in regards to hermeneutics. Very good info stormyknight Never took to that sort of way to understanding Gods word. Seemed to make it very 2D instead of multidimensional like it really is. Makes reading the Bible for me at least and my busy mind, rather dull and boring. This is my opinion and a lot of it has been formed from experience and situations I have been in, so please take what I am about to say as coming across in a humble manner. It may ruffle feathers, but so be it. People hate us because Jesus said they would. People hate us because we have taken Gods gracious gift of salvation and made it a marker of sorts or as a way of creating divisions between unbelievers and believers. People hate us because we have over 40,000 denominations and cannot explain why. People hate us because we have taken the gospel and turned it into a tragedy, a do or die or worse scenario. People hate us because we teach God is love but acts like Molech or is petty and will someday commit mass genocide out of anger (pretty sure that is being unable to forgive and the entire opposite of the gospel!). People hate us because we elevate our sin as less than theirs because they are unbelievers and we are not. People hate us because we refuse to make a cake top due to our “beliefs” and like it is an offense to God if we do! Not realizing God has already forgiven those for wanting the homosexual cake topper and for the ones refusing to make it. Wrap your head around that. People hate us because we hold up signs saying burn in Hell you abortion murderers or Gossip and say God can probably barely forgive trannies. Shame on us. People hate us because some of us tell them God has predestined some to eternal destruction or torment and others to eternal life. That is showing favoritism and I don’t care how anyone tries to twist that one around, that’s what is being stated! How in the WORLD is that any different than abortion!?! Abortion is choosing who does and does not live, with the ones life that is on the line not having any say or control in it. People hate us because in the past the church committed some of the most horrendous mass murders in all time in the name of Christ. People hate us because we hate the good and we hate sharing the true good! We always have. We share what we think is the good, but its only a fraction of the good or a twisted version of the good. The religious leaders 2000 years ago stared the Good in the face and hated him. It is NO different now. When most (not all) share the gospel or go out to “save” souls we tell people Jesus will forgive or has, but only if you believe... or if you do your best to stop sinning and be a good person or to repent or go to hell!! I am sorry, but that is not good news! That is an ultimatum and a form of blackmail! There is a man in New Orleans who has a YouTube channel and he walks around with a sign everyday around the city that says believe and repent or burn! That’s not the good news of salvation, that’s horrifying and grotesque. Could you imagine what would happen if we went around simply telling people God lives you and sent his son to save you and He forgives our sin! And just let that sink in for a moment instead of going on about the horrors of hell or going on about us being in charge of our salvation and the dire consequences that will happen if we make the wrong choice and unfortunately has possibly happened to all your unbelieving friends and family... God knows we are terrible decision makers and we are always going to eat that fruit even though He told us not too! But since the foundation of creation the lamb was slain because he saw that we needed it before we ever even opened our eyes! That’s good news, that’s something to shout from the rooftops! God will and is fixing His creation, all of it , and one day He will be all in all and there is no choice or free will that will thwart or hinder that from being accomplished. Every knee will bow and every tongue will praise and worship Jesus as king of kings and Lord of Lords and as savior of all. Now before anyone thinks who does this chick think she is or what does she know that we don’t or has been enlightened on, please please understand what I state above is coming from a very broken and battered soul who has been through and done much in their meager 30 something years of life and has done things that are frankly utterly vile and pure evil. If God can show me grace and love after all that I have done, after cursing and absolutely rejecting Him, He can, will and does do it for anyone. He will never stop perusing us and drawing us to Him no matter what we do. He is faithful when we are faithless.
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Post by cwood85 on Jul 19, 2019 7:41:12 GMT -6
Saw this today...https://nypost.com/2019/07/14/swedish-people-are-getting-chip-implants-to-replace-cash-credit-cards/ Always wondered if this is how the mark of the beast will present itself.............. as cwood85 previously indicated (the hypothesis that the mark has been here for a long time already), I believe we are starting to see the beta testing; not just in Sweden, but in the U.S. as well. There was an article a while back about a company in Wisconsin (or Minnesota, Im not sure which) which had workers who were offered the voluntary opportunity to get a chip implant. Some have hypothesized that the 'alpha' test has been going on in the U.S. for about a hundred years now. Incidentally, I have heard it said that King David got in a little trouble for attempting to 'number' the people. That is, not count the people, but [assign a] number. To each one. 2 Samuel 24This isn't something in beta testing. The Romans numbered people. That is actually where the numbering system many use here to decipher what a word means and numerology came from. Numbers were assigned to individual letters and then peoples names were converted to a number based on the letters in their name and that was their "identification" number. The Romans used this to track for taxes, population, income and etc. It essentially worked the same way a social security number does now and that is where governments today got the idea from for tracking, controlling and identification. The control and use of monetary instruments has been around for a very long time. No one can get anywhere in this world w/o having either physical or electronic money which always has the image of man on it. Ever wonder why that is? Is there a government system on this planet whose image is not imprinted on money? Not that I am aware of. Governments, rulers, dictators and important people are imprinted on money. The beast is a beast system of man and the image of the beast is imprinted for all to see. It isn't going to matter if it is in the form of a chip, card, phone, whatever because all of it has to come from a bank account of some sort and bank accounts are controlled by governments. Even if you do not use a bank account and only utilize cash, that is traceable too. I worked at a bank for a long time and everything is monitored and tracked. Can't walk into a Kroger with a nice watch or jewels and buy your groceries, gotta have cash. What we buy and sell is already controlled with money because we cannot do anything without it. If you walk into a car dealership with over $5000.00 in cash to buy a car or anywhere something can be bought and sold, they are legally obligated to fill out what is called a CTR (Currency transaction report) and that is sent to the federal government. Anything done over $3000 in cash can warrant a suspicious activity report to be done. What makes someone "marked" with the image of the beast? Do we let money control us or we control the money? Is money a persons god and rules their life or can they be content with the things they have? Look at people who win the lottery in the millions and are broke within a couple of years. They let money become their god and then went down a path of destruction as they let the money and use of it plague their life. They worshipped it instead of letting God lead them with it or doing good with it.
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