Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2017 9:19:04 GMT -6
A short exhortation…
For those of you who have been here from the beginning of this thread, you may be tired of hearing me clarify the salvation issue. I know, you get it. But I must also be mindful that some people may read only the last few posts and find them completely heretical. So please accept my apology as I continue to beat this drum which must be beaten in order to make sure our mindset is pure concerning the harvests.
Salvation:
So first of all, please allow me to clarify again - Salvation is guaranteed by God. He has accomplished the task already(outside our temporal limits). When we discuss the harvests - we are discussing the order and roles that each crop plays in the administration of the kingdom. No one will lose their salvation and the whole idea of the wrath of God is not understood well by us. We constantly shape God into our own image. Did you know that same word for Wrath is often translated Passion? Hmmmmm. Our translators made sure to use the word Wrath when dealing with God’s reaction to sinners. Get my point? It is HIS DRIVING FORCE - HIS PASSION - to bring all to righteousness in Him!
Luk 12:49 "I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled!
Do we honestly believe that Christ was Angry and excited to burn off the earth? No. He is passionate and impatient to bring us all home!
If you have only read some of the later posts in this thread, I encourage you to start from the top so that you have a backdrop on which to hang the more recent posts.
Who is the Greatest?:
Whenever we start dividing Christianity into groups we developed two possible responses, 1) the idea that we are better than others, 2) the idea that we can never be good enough.
We can develop a sense of, “I'm just not gonna try, because I can't succeed.”
Or, “Well I guess I'm never going to be part of that group.”
Ironically, even with a "one body system", I have heard similar things from believers who think they can't be good enough to stay out of hell, and I've actually heard my own son say, “Well I know where I'm going." - and he didn't mean Heaven. This from someone who grew up under my teaching of Restoration! Ironic.
This can be from frustration, depression, hopelessness, doubt, anger - but it is so easy to make “the final outcome” the only thing we see. And it is too much for us to bear - so we quit.
The problem is, we're human, and so any time we bring up the word crown, reward, authority, etc. we immediately start ranking each other and ourselves in comparison to others. As soon as our focus is on the reward or the authority or our position we are back into thinking physically and not spiritually. We do run the race to win; not at the expense of other runners, but rather as a way to beat “our own time” so to speak.
We must overcome and finish the race, but we can only do so through Christ, who strengthens us. Our concern is not to be the greatest but instead for Him to be the greatest. As John the Baptist said "we must decrease so that he can increase", and it is through this decrease - this resting in him - this complete surrender of our life and our desire for our life - that we truly achieve victory in Christ.
Scripture is very clear that there is a remnant that is called out of the body. It happens in all generations. As we see in the story of Elijah there were 7000 at that time. There is always a remnant, there is always a group of barley, however scripture is not clear on what defines that group.
1Ki 19:18 "Yet I will leave 7,000 in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Baal and every mouth that has not kissed him."
Scripture will document some of the characteristics of the barley and how it is different than the wheat and the grapes. Scripture talks about the timing of the harvest, and we will get into that soon. Scripture even discusses some fruit demonstrated by the barley. However Scripture gives us no way to judge whether one person is barley or wheat or even a grape for that matter. There is some support for judging fruit, but only God can truly know the heart.
So as we consider the idea of a remnant called out, let us not strive to become barley, but rather rest in Him and be faithful in the hearing of the word of God and the acting in the authority of the faith that hearing provides, and leave the distinction of the groups up to our savior.
When we start our study of kingdom parables we will quickly realize that there are a great number of people trying to work their way into the barley who simply do not succeed because they are trying to, work their way into the barley. It is not our works, even though some may be miraculous and seem good, that accomplish anything - if they are outside of faith. Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of God and each act that we commit should be something we've heard the Father tell us. Our goal, after all, is to become one with the Father.
I am sure most of us recognize the almost continuous mantra of Jesus throughout his life - the last shall be first - the least shall be greatest - the meek shall inherit the earth - to gain life you must lose life - a seed must fall to the ground and die in order to bear a harvest - this is my body which is broken for you - greater love has no man than he that lay down his life for his friends.
He taught the pattern. He lived in the pattern. He died to demonstrate the pattern. He is calling us to that same pattern.
One of the most critical moments in History is upon us:
We are all excited! We are all anxious to be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and to rise to meet him in the air, and to worship him in the most glorious songs ever song throughout creation. We long to sit on the sea shores near the mansions in Heaven and watch the angels in their brightness and colorful beauty. We deeply desire to sit by the side of our Lord and Savior, to touch the wounds in his body and know that he did it all for us because he wanted to.
We want to be held by Him and released from the struggles of this world. We are sick of the evil that surrounds us. We’re weary of disease, corruption, vile sins, and broken spirits that permeate the very existence of this wretched carnal world. Oh, how we want to get out.
And so our eyes are on heaven or watching for signs or counting days or looking for any token of His coming, and I find no fault in this. We do, appropriately long for the time. We do appropriately study, and watch, and seek, and knock.
But my friends there's work to be done here. We've heard, lately:
"Do you not say, 'There are yet four months, and then comes the harvest'?
And we use this to become excited to leave - but, let us look at the meaning behind this scripture:
Joh 4:34 Jesus *said to them, "My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to accomplish His work.
Joh 4:35 "Do you not say, 'There are yet four months, and then comes the harvest'? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look on the fields, that they are white for harvest.
Joh 4:36 "Already he who reaps is receiving wages and is gathering fruit for life eternal; so that he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together.
Joh 4:37 "For in this case the saying is true, 'One sows and another reaps.'
Joh 4:38 "I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored and you have entered into their labor."
The race is not over!
The true heart of the barley is not to be raised up in Him for a great glorious moment while the rest of the world burns. The true calling of the Barley is to be broken in His service to the task He sets before us. It is only by being broken - it is only by death - it is only by denying ourselves - it is only by taking up our cross - it is only by following the Word - that we truly achieve His purpose and our calling.
And so we are not all called to be barley - many are called - but few are chosen. We are not all called to suffer the same service. I strongly encourage each of you, before you strive to become barley, consider the cost - because there is one.
Luk 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
Luk 14:27 "Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
Luk 14:28 "For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?
Luk 14:29 "Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
Luk 14:30 saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.'
Luk 14:31 "Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and consider whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32 "Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace.
Luk 14:33 "So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.
Mat 20:20 Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came to Jesus with her sons, bowing down and making a request of Him.
Mat 20:21 And He said to her, "What do you wish?" She *said to Him, "Command that in Your kingdom these two sons of mine may sit one on Your right and one on Your left."
Mat 20:22 But Jesus answered, "You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink?" They *said to Him, "We are able."
Mat 20:23 He *said to them, "My cup you shall drink; but to sit on My right and on My left, this is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by My Father."
Mat 20:24 And hearing this, the ten became indignant with the two brothers.
Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them.
Mat 20:26 "It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant,
Mat 20:27 and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave;
Mat 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
Peace and Love to each of you, in the Glorious Grace of Our Lord Jesus - the King of Kings - and Lamb of God.
For those of you who have been here from the beginning of this thread, you may be tired of hearing me clarify the salvation issue. I know, you get it. But I must also be mindful that some people may read only the last few posts and find them completely heretical. So please accept my apology as I continue to beat this drum which must be beaten in order to make sure our mindset is pure concerning the harvests.
Salvation:
So first of all, please allow me to clarify again - Salvation is guaranteed by God. He has accomplished the task already(outside our temporal limits). When we discuss the harvests - we are discussing the order and roles that each crop plays in the administration of the kingdom. No one will lose their salvation and the whole idea of the wrath of God is not understood well by us. We constantly shape God into our own image. Did you know that same word for Wrath is often translated Passion? Hmmmmm. Our translators made sure to use the word Wrath when dealing with God’s reaction to sinners. Get my point? It is HIS DRIVING FORCE - HIS PASSION - to bring all to righteousness in Him!
Luk 12:49 "I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled!
Do we honestly believe that Christ was Angry and excited to burn off the earth? No. He is passionate and impatient to bring us all home!
If you have only read some of the later posts in this thread, I encourage you to start from the top so that you have a backdrop on which to hang the more recent posts.
Who is the Greatest?:
Whenever we start dividing Christianity into groups we developed two possible responses, 1) the idea that we are better than others, 2) the idea that we can never be good enough.
We can develop a sense of, “I'm just not gonna try, because I can't succeed.”
Or, “Well I guess I'm never going to be part of that group.”
Ironically, even with a "one body system", I have heard similar things from believers who think they can't be good enough to stay out of hell, and I've actually heard my own son say, “Well I know where I'm going." - and he didn't mean Heaven. This from someone who grew up under my teaching of Restoration! Ironic.
This can be from frustration, depression, hopelessness, doubt, anger - but it is so easy to make “the final outcome” the only thing we see. And it is too much for us to bear - so we quit.
The problem is, we're human, and so any time we bring up the word crown, reward, authority, etc. we immediately start ranking each other and ourselves in comparison to others. As soon as our focus is on the reward or the authority or our position we are back into thinking physically and not spiritually. We do run the race to win; not at the expense of other runners, but rather as a way to beat “our own time” so to speak.
We must overcome and finish the race, but we can only do so through Christ, who strengthens us. Our concern is not to be the greatest but instead for Him to be the greatest. As John the Baptist said "we must decrease so that he can increase", and it is through this decrease - this resting in him - this complete surrender of our life and our desire for our life - that we truly achieve victory in Christ.
Scripture is very clear that there is a remnant that is called out of the body. It happens in all generations. As we see in the story of Elijah there were 7000 at that time. There is always a remnant, there is always a group of barley, however scripture is not clear on what defines that group.
1Ki 19:18 "Yet I will leave 7,000 in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed to Baal and every mouth that has not kissed him."
Scripture will document some of the characteristics of the barley and how it is different than the wheat and the grapes. Scripture talks about the timing of the harvest, and we will get into that soon. Scripture even discusses some fruit demonstrated by the barley. However Scripture gives us no way to judge whether one person is barley or wheat or even a grape for that matter. There is some support for judging fruit, but only God can truly know the heart.
So as we consider the idea of a remnant called out, let us not strive to become barley, but rather rest in Him and be faithful in the hearing of the word of God and the acting in the authority of the faith that hearing provides, and leave the distinction of the groups up to our savior.
When we start our study of kingdom parables we will quickly realize that there are a great number of people trying to work their way into the barley who simply do not succeed because they are trying to, work their way into the barley. It is not our works, even though some may be miraculous and seem good, that accomplish anything - if they are outside of faith. Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of God and each act that we commit should be something we've heard the Father tell us. Our goal, after all, is to become one with the Father.
I am sure most of us recognize the almost continuous mantra of Jesus throughout his life - the last shall be first - the least shall be greatest - the meek shall inherit the earth - to gain life you must lose life - a seed must fall to the ground and die in order to bear a harvest - this is my body which is broken for you - greater love has no man than he that lay down his life for his friends.
He taught the pattern. He lived in the pattern. He died to demonstrate the pattern. He is calling us to that same pattern.
One of the most critical moments in History is upon us:
We are all excited! We are all anxious to be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and to rise to meet him in the air, and to worship him in the most glorious songs ever song throughout creation. We long to sit on the sea shores near the mansions in Heaven and watch the angels in their brightness and colorful beauty. We deeply desire to sit by the side of our Lord and Savior, to touch the wounds in his body and know that he did it all for us because he wanted to.
We want to be held by Him and released from the struggles of this world. We are sick of the evil that surrounds us. We’re weary of disease, corruption, vile sins, and broken spirits that permeate the very existence of this wretched carnal world. Oh, how we want to get out.
And so our eyes are on heaven or watching for signs or counting days or looking for any token of His coming, and I find no fault in this. We do, appropriately long for the time. We do appropriately study, and watch, and seek, and knock.
But my friends there's work to be done here. We've heard, lately:
"Do you not say, 'There are yet four months, and then comes the harvest'?
And we use this to become excited to leave - but, let us look at the meaning behind this scripture:
Joh 4:34 Jesus *said to them, "My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to accomplish His work.
Joh 4:35 "Do you not say, 'There are yet four months, and then comes the harvest'? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look on the fields, that they are white for harvest.
Joh 4:36 "Already he who reaps is receiving wages and is gathering fruit for life eternal; so that he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together.
Joh 4:37 "For in this case the saying is true, 'One sows and another reaps.'
Joh 4:38 "I sent you to reap that for which you have not labored; others have labored and you have entered into their labor."
The race is not over!
The true heart of the barley is not to be raised up in Him for a great glorious moment while the rest of the world burns. The true calling of the Barley is to be broken in His service to the task He sets before us. It is only by being broken - it is only by death - it is only by denying ourselves - it is only by taking up our cross - it is only by following the Word - that we truly achieve His purpose and our calling.
And so we are not all called to be barley - many are called - but few are chosen. We are not all called to suffer the same service. I strongly encourage each of you, before you strive to become barley, consider the cost - because there is one.
Luk 14:26 "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
Luk 14:27 "Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
Luk 14:28 "For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?
Luk 14:29 "Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
Luk 14:30 saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.'
Luk 14:31 "Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and consider whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32 "Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace.
Luk 14:33 "So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.
Mat 20:20 Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came to Jesus with her sons, bowing down and making a request of Him.
Mat 20:21 And He said to her, "What do you wish?" She *said to Him, "Command that in Your kingdom these two sons of mine may sit one on Your right and one on Your left."
Mat 20:22 But Jesus answered, "You do not know what you are asking. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink?" They *said to Him, "We are able."
Mat 20:23 He *said to them, "My cup you shall drink; but to sit on My right and on My left, this is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by My Father."
Mat 20:24 And hearing this, the ten became indignant with the two brothers.
Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them.
Mat 20:26 "It is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant,
Mat 20:27 and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave;
Mat 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
Peace and Love to each of you, in the Glorious Grace of Our Lord Jesus - the King of Kings - and Lamb of God.
You had me at the TWO ADAMS 
