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Post by cwood85 on Dec 5, 2017 17:11:40 GMT -6
Friends, I have a couple of loose ends I need to tie up as we move forward. I'm just noting them here so that folks don't think I forgot about them. 1. We need to dig into the lake of fire and understand its nature, its purpose, its origin, etc. 2. Someone asked me about the point - create the world, destroy it in a flood, bring it back, destroy it in tribulation fire, etc. What is going on? What kind of God does this? What is the plan? 3. We need to finish up a couple parts on Matt 25 - Sheep and Goats I think that was it. I will deal with these items as we move into the core concepts. I'm just taking a brief breather to let more people catch up, to rest, and to wait on the Lord. SK Oh - another note - It appears that many here at unsealed are not aware of this thread. If you find this information valuable - spread the word - but I would strongly encourage people to start at the beginning and, it may be helpful for them to also go through the Hearing God thread as well. Thank you  I am not quite halfway through. I have been sticking mainly to this thread after finding it, as some of the other threads in different topics have become interesting to say the least... I am going to focus on this to gain more understanding. |
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 5, 2017 17:15:04 GMT -6
Also, if it is ok with @silentknight those who are putting this in a word document could maybe post here as a PDF to print? Or if I can do that? There are some things I would like to highlight and reference back too.
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Dec 5, 2017 20:16:55 GMT -6
cwood85, miketaft, etal... I have been copying and pasting to my Word and yes indeed I have used nearly an entire ream! Ha!
I too was led to help a friend and felt more confidant with some scripture that SK had here for us to read, and needed it for her. It too was a different matter...wow, praise Jesus!
I too really want to reply to some new threads out there, but for some reason I want to get a handle on what SK is saying here as it seems to be relevant to our whole End Times watch and understanding of Revelation...
SK, I just finally got caught up. Let me tell you, for years I have never understood how to defend the Word until this very thread! Namely, because, something in me struggled with the combination of these verses:
Jn 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
with Rom 8:9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him... and there is another verse that I know was part of your Free Will section that I can not find at the moment. I know now that the reason why is that it does not make sense for God to call someone to an evil act (ie Judas) and then not spare him down the road...in layman;s terms.
I have struggled to spread the Gospel message because I could never explain to someone what happens to the non-believer. I just flat out was relying on the doctrine told to me by men. Perhaps the Holy Spirit kept my mouth shut so as to avoid saying His plan for unbelievers (in this present Age, and the ones to come) incorrectly..
I am willing to compile my pdf, but I tell ya, SK is kinda all over the place, Well, the outline in the beginning was not adhered to. Maybe that is ok. It is like reading an unedited book!
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Post by mike on Dec 6, 2017 12:15:13 GMT -6
@silentknight i can sticky the thread or try something called "announce" which I am uncertain what it does but can try it |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2017 12:29:22 GMT -6
cwood85, miketaft, etal... I have been copying and pasting to my Word and yes indeed I have used nearly an entire ream! Ha! I too was led to help a friend and felt more confidant with some scripture that SK had here for us to read, and needed it for her. It too was a different matter...wow, praise Jesus! I too really want to reply to some new threads out there, but for some reason I want to get a handle on what SK is saying here as it seems to be relevant to our whole End Times watch and understanding of Revelation... SK, I just finally got caught up. Let me tell you, for years I have never understood how to defend the Word until this very thread! Namely, because, something in me struggled with the combination of these verses: Jn 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. with Rom 8:9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him... and there is another verse that I know was part of your Free Will section that I can not find at the moment. I know now that the reason why is that it does not make sense for God to call someone to an evil act (ie Judas) and then not spare him down the road...in layman;s terms. I have struggled to spread the Gospel message because I could never explain to someone what happens to the non-believer. I just flat out was relying on the doctrine told to me by men. Perhaps the Holy Spirit kept my mouth shut so as to avoid saying His plan for unbelievers (in this present Age, and the ones to come) incorrectly.. I am willing to compile my pdf, but I tell ya, SK is kinda all over the place, Well, the outline in the beginning was not adhered to. Maybe that is ok. It is like reading an unedited book! I would suggest that any compilation be re-organized. However, I'd also be cautious - as I mentioned, if one topic is covered at a time, and that topic is one that offends someone - then they tend to turn off to the whole subject. I jumped around in hopes of "sprinkling" you all with drops of truth so as not to flood you with one area at a time. Each audience - each person - will need something different. Only the spirit can actually open our eyes. So, whatever you all feel is best ..... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2017 12:33:57 GMT -6
@silentknight i can sticky the thread or try something called "announce" which I am uncertain what it does but can try it However you feel led, mike. |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Dec 6, 2017 17:08:15 GMT -6
yes, SK, this makes sense. I copied the comments from others too, which took some of the topic in directions. In reading it later it does become overwhelming. Still this is some wonderful material for a book!
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Post by cwood85 on Dec 6, 2017 23:36:53 GMT -6
cwood85, miketaft, etal... I have been copying and pasting to my Word and yes indeed I have used nearly an entire ream! Ha! I too was led to help a friend and felt more confidant with some scripture that SK had here for us to read, and needed it for her. It too was a different matter...wow, praise Jesus! I too really want to reply to some new threads out there, but for some reason I want to get a handle on what SK is saying here as it seems to be relevant to our whole End Times watch and understanding of Revelation... SK, I just finally got caught up. Let me tell you, for years I have never understood how to defend the Word until this very thread! Namely, because, something in me struggled with the combination of these verses: Jn 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. with Rom 8:9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him... and there is another verse that I know was part of your Free Will section that I can not find at the moment. I know now that the reason why is that it does not make sense for God to call someone to an evil act (ie Judas) and then not spare him down the road...in layman;s terms. I have struggled to spread the Gospel message because I could never explain to someone what happens to the non-believer. I just flat out was relying on the doctrine told to me by men. Perhaps the Holy Spirit kept my mouth shut so as to avoid saying His plan for unbelievers (in this present Age, and the ones to come) incorrectly.. I am willing to compile my pdf, but I tell ya, SK is kinda all over the place, Well, the outline in the beginning was not adhered to. Maybe that is ok. It is like reading an unedited book! I would suggest that any compilation be re-organized. However, I'd also be cautious - as I mentioned, if one topic is covered at a time, and that topic is one that offends someone - then they tend to turn off to the whole subject. I jumped around in hopes of "sprinkling" you all with drops of truth so as not to flood you with one area at a time. Each audience - each person - will need something different. Only the spirit can actually open our eyes. So, whatever you all feel is best ..... Thank you for the heads up For now I will be discussing this with my Aunt as she already seems to be in this train of thought. However one thing I have certainly gained from your post and the information that you have presented is to talk about the gospel and focus on love. An entirely different mindset of focusing on Gods love and not winning the person over or worrying about whether they accept what is said has made going into such a conversation so much easier. |
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Post by mike on Dec 7, 2017 10:14:34 GMT -6
I very extremely, in limited amount, discussed this with my brother two nights ago and he was a bit receptive. We were in a very legalistic "sin management" church 20 yrs ago, so both he & I have a better realization of who God really is now compared to then. I am appreciative learning about how loving He really is! When I look back at the taskmaster I was taught about this thread makes more and more sense. Why would the God who came to earth in human form, sacrifice Himself to pay a debt He didnt owe, then send a vast majority to torment forever? (rhetorical)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 10:29:53 GMT -6
All - If you want a chance to apply what you have been learning in this thread, there has been an addition to the "Lie of Universalism" thread. This post speaks of the evils of believing that God will save everyone.
As a bit of homework, I would suggest you read what was written there and, applying what you have read here, see if you can see the flaw in each argument that is raised in that recent post.
I am not suggesting you post your response to the person who wrote it. This would be for an inward exercise to test your apologetics. If you do run into areas that are difficult to overcome, you could bring those back to me and we can discuss.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 10:33:48 GMT -6
One thing about love -
While I don't disagree with the emphasis on love - because God is love - I want to make sure we understand that Restoration is not only based on God's love. It is also based on God's holiness, completeness, and Justice.
Many people who disagree with Restoration will do so because they assume that those that believe in salvation for all are only doing so because they don't want people to suffer and can't understand justice.
I'll be covering this concept of Justice more formally, but because some of you are beginning to talk to others - I want you to be aware that Justice also demands restoration. God's holiness also demands restoration.
Sin is real - the consequences of sin are real - that is all the more reason that what Christ did for us is REAL.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 10:43:31 GMT -6
I will be starting the next phase of Restoration soon. I have been wrestling with the Lord on which direction to go. I wanted to cover Lake of Fire, He seems to be steering me toward the Harvests. As soon as I have peace (applying the Hearing God concepts), I will be able to move forward.
But I wanted to issue this warning. The next topics may be a little hard to take. I know you are thinking, what could be hard to take now - we already dealt with Restoration.
So I would like those of you who have been following this thread to commit some time in prayer to what is coming. Ask that the Lord guide me and that I will be obedient to His word. Ask that your hearts will be prepared to hear His word. Ask that He will open your eyes.
I'm going to write a summary of what we covered - very short summary - and then, when all is settled, we will move into phase 2.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2017 12:03:14 GMT -6
Restoration - Part 1 - SummaryYou can use this page as a reference to the other pages we have posted to the thread. Most of the individual posts are linked here. It all centers on Christ and His work - there is no life, no salvation outside of Jesus.
John 3 - In light of Restoration We look at defining Who God Is with a wealth of scripture references: We looked at the difference between the sword of the flesh and sword of the spirit and how the idea of physically burning never entered the mind of God and was an abomination to Him. We saw how he Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. We looked at the Every Knee shall bow passages and showed how this could not be seen as forced - but willingly and by the spirit every man will claim that in the Lord they have Righteousness and Strength. We showed how man’s “ Free will” does not supersede God’s plan. That God is the final mover and shaker and does not subject himself to the whims of humans and devils. We saw how God cannot command us to Love our Enemies while tormenting His endlessly. We saw how the Two Adams prove that Christ’s work of righteousness is superior to Adam’s sin but that there is an order to being reconciled back into God. We covered The Laws of Land, Debt, Redemption, and Jubilee! and used them to show the mandate for Christ's redemptive act and how Christ is the Jubilee. We worshipped the Lord through a moment of baptism as we learned that we must all be salted with fire. We must all be washed in the spirit, water, and fire.
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Post by mike on Dec 7, 2017 12:37:41 GMT -6
All - If you want a chance to apply what you have been learning in this thread, there has been an addition to the "Lie of Universalism" thread. This post speaks of the evils of believing that God will save everyone. As a bit of homework, I would suggest you read what was written there and, applying what you have read here, see if you can see the flaw in each argument that is raised in that recent post. I am not suggesting you post your response to the person who wrote it. This would be for an inward exercise to test your apologetics. If you do run into areas that are difficult to overcome, you could bring those back to me and we can discuss. I do have a question about the application of 2Tim 3:4. Is it possible the fable is ET as the translators (from Latin to Greek was it?) was botched and ran with for such a long time it became the "truth"? Isnt that how lies become true anyway? |
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Post by MikeTaft on Dec 7, 2017 13:14:50 GMT -6
All - If you want a chance to apply what you have been learning in this thread, there has been an addition to the "Lie of Universalism" thread. This post speaks of the evils of believing that God will save everyone. As a bit of homework, I would suggest you read what was written there and, applying what you have read here, see if you can see the flaw in each argument that is raised in that recent post. I am not suggesting you post your response to the person who wrote it. This would be for an inward exercise to test your apologetics. If you do run into areas that are difficult to overcome, you could bring those back to me and we can discuss. I do have a question about the application of 2Tim 3:4. Is it possible the fable is ET as the translators (from Latin to Greek was it?) was botched and ran with for such a long time it became the "truth"? Isnt that how lies become true anyway? This came to my mind the other night as well Mike. Churches teach doctrine for so long, that many become accustomed to it and can't depart from it because they believe it to be true. Imagine the bombshell when early century thinkers discovered the world was round and not flat. Try breaking that false-truth (some are coming back to that lie). I commented earlier that our carnal nature may have created hell, because we want to see those who have harmed us and not taken the free gift from our loving God, deserve to die as our "justice." A question that could be answered is what is God's justice? The first are last and the last first. God's ways are not our ways. God is our King, and humanity demanded a human king. Jesus even raised the bar and the human law (through Moses) by taking it to a whole new spiritual level. To lust is to commit adultery, and to hate is to murder. How much greater is God's justice, grace, and love than ours! Filthy rags I have...but we've gained the righteousness of God in Christ. Sorry for the ramblings... Not sure if you have an answer SK of what God's justice truly means compared to what Christian tradition has assigned as God's "justice" (i.e. ET and Annihilation). |
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I am not quite halfway through. I have been sticking mainly to this thread after finding it, as some of the other threads in different topics have become interesting to say the least... I am going to focus on this to gain more understanding.
