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Post by kjs on Feb 5, 2018 14:37:44 GMT -6
Since this "theory" -- "Flat Earth" -- keeps popping up in various threads -- and it always generates a few comments (both positive and negative).... I decided it needed it's own thread.....
So feel free to discuss / argue / debate --- on whether (as Rob Skiba would say) the sphere earth is the the great delusion Jesus spoke about here on this thread.
A personal note: as everyone else I was raised in the current public schools -- so the Globe Earth -- is what I was taught and I have not seen any specific proof showing it is not....
That being said:
There are few items that need explained on how they possibly could have been done on a spinning globe model........
2Kings 20:11 "And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow (on Sun Dial) ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz. (or go backwards in "time" 40 minutes)
Joshua 10:14 -- Joshua's Long Day (where the Sun stood still for around an half a day)
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theer
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Post by theer on Feb 5, 2018 20:02:32 GMT -6
I am glad you started this thread...I was going to try but I have never started a thread and kinda didn't want to learn ha ha.
I know this subject is labeled "conspiracy theory", and when I first heard about it that is exactly what I thought. My next thoughts were: (a). This is ridiculous! and (b). It doesn't matter anyway because it's not related to Yeshua so I will find out the truth after the rapture. However, since learning the truth I KNOW that the information about the flat earth is very, very Important for a couple of reasons. The first reason is HOW??? How did they brainwash the whole world?! Christians who automatically reject evolution and that whole demonic LIE, don't think anything about swallowing the "globe" earth LIE, they don't even want to do a minimal amount of study on it. But if Satan has pushed this lie on the whole world, believe me it is for a reason! For example, This type of propaganda, brainwashing, mind control is how they got 6 million Jews on a train headed for gas chamber showers...mostly without a fight. And for those who say it doesn't matter because we'll just wait and God will tell us after the rapture---I believe the truth is coming out in these last days because it is something the "Left behind" are going to need to know, and we all have family and friends that are NOT going in the rapture. My research leads me to believe that the Globe, outerspace, Vast universe lie is directly related to the strong delusion. So it really saddens me when I hear Christians say they know the earth isn't flat. It means that they have never asked Yeshua for the TRUTH. Are we so gullible that we think that the goverments/scientists on this earth wouldn't lie to us? The governments are controlled by satan. The government/scientists have the whole world thinking we evolved from "Monkeys". **Evolution is taught in EVERY school and university in the world. If that is not brainwashing I don't know what is. I want you to just think about a couple things that REALLY got me looking into the flat earth thing. 1. Water is always level...it NEVER curves. 2. If outer space is a vacuum, what is keeping our air from being sucked out into outer space? (hint The bible says its a dome covering). 3. God said the earth was made in the beginning...but the sun wasn't made till day 4-so what was the earth circling until the sun came ie what gravity was pulling it? 4. Joshua said "Sun stand still" not earth stand still. 5. When planes are flying, or helicopters hovering...shouldn't the earth be spinning underneath? 6. God said: heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool...footstools don't spin!
I encourage everyone to first of all PRAY about this...then look into it. Go listen to some of Rob Skiba's videos. Rob looks into this from a biblical point of view. They are hiding God from us! They are hiding how importance we are to our creator! God is right above us! AND the sun and the moon are IN the firmament/not 93 million miles away! This is IMPORTANT! This deception IS part of the strong delusion. AND if it is a delusion, it means it is difficult to see without the Lord opening our eyes. Shalom.
**(a note to people who say flat earth is too big to hide).
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Post by fitz on Feb 5, 2018 20:33:18 GMT -6
Hi theer , I think it was our brief interaction in my other thread that sparked this one, so let me jump right in. First of all, either way, I still don't think this is critical to Christian doctrine. It's enough for me to know that God created everything in 6 literal 24 hour days, and there is much within that truth that I still don't understand, and doubt I will until I am in heaven. So, I could be wrong in holding to the current scientific understanding of the earth, our solar system and the universe. I also would say that science is still grasping at straws to explain it all as well. There are far more unknowns than knows. Let's start here. This paragraph was not written by me (and I don't know who to credit), but it must be answered in order to entertain the possibility of a flat earth. Legend has it that Christopher Columbus observed this as a young man...regardless, it is observable by anyone... "If you stand on the seashore and watch a ship sailing away, it will gradually disappear from view. But the reason cannot be the distance: if a hill or tower are nearby, and you climb to the top after the ship has completely disappeared, it becomes visible again. Furthermore, if on the shore you watch carefully the way the ship disappears from view, you will notice that the hull vanishes first, while the masts and sails (or the bridge and smokestack) disappear last. It is as if the ship was dropping behind a hill, which in a way is exactly the case, the "hill" being the curve of the Earth's surface. " Furthermore, we have photos from space that show the earth. It's a sphere. We can see solar and lunar eclipses (not to mention the lunar phases) which clearly demonstrate that something ROUND is casting a shadow. Anyone can achieve the same results with a lamp and 2 baseballs. To believe otherwise is to believe that we DID NOT land on the moon. To believe this, we must believe that we HAVE NOT sent countless manned and unmanned spacecraft and satellites into earth orbit. And there's your conspiracy theory. This would mean that THOUSANDS of people are complicit in the biggest lie since "did God really say...?"! Not just any people...red-blooded Americans who have worked at NASA ( my uncle was one who worked on the space shuttle program in the late 70's at NASA in Houston). Some are Christians. So you'd need to believe that at least hundreds of American Christians are part of this conspiracy. I think it's very doubtful. Beyond that, can we explain asteroids and meteors in the flat earth theory? Are these chunks of the dome flaking off? So much more I could write, but those are the big things that come to mind.Most importantly, I do not see any evidence in scripture for a flat earth. I think you have to contort it to come to this conclusion. No disrespect intended, sister. I respect your right to have an alternate view of the universe.
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Post by barb84 on Feb 5, 2018 21:56:22 GMT -6
Isaiah 40:22. It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 0:13:42 GMT -6
Regarding Joshua's Long Day and some other cosmological seemingly miraculous events recorded in the bible, I recommend a glimpse here
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Post by fitz on Feb 6, 2018 15:37:54 GMT -6
Today I watched SpaceX launch a rocket and show live pictures from the rocket. A picture is worth a thousand words and my eyes saw it all happen. Notice the curvature of the earth....it's a sphere!
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theer
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Post by theer on Feb 6, 2018 19:57:09 GMT -6
The replies that have been received so far shows me that MOST of you have never even looked at a flat earth video. All those seemingly obvious "globe" earth evidences have been answered on many, many videos. Check out Rob Skiba, Mark Sargent, Jeranism, Mr. Thrive and Survive...etc But if people don't think the "strong delusion" that is going to ensnare their friends and loved ones after the rapture is important...hey I am not here to convince anyone. I have made sure that I told my family and friends and now anyone who reads this board, if people don't think its important enough to even check out, its on them. My prayers go with you all...I am praying that anyone who loves Yeshua will be able to have their eyes opened. Peace.
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Post by fitz on Feb 6, 2018 20:37:40 GMT -6
Theer, besides the SpaceX launch I saw today (which I suppose could have been a faked video, even though there were hundreds of people at Cape Canaveral) , I lived in Florida many years ago and watched a space shuttle launch in person. I saw it blast off...and it ascended into the sky...further and further until it completely disappeared from view. My own eyeballs witnessed it.
Why didn't the space shuttle I watched in person or the SpaceX rocket today bounce off (or crash through) the dome? The SpaceX rocket was traveling at approx. 8,000 KPH about the time it left earths atmosphere. I would think that would cause a severe problem when it encountered the dome. No?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 6:49:54 GMT -6
I have never seen a flat earth map...and until now no one could explain to me how this would work... Anyway. This is absolutely nothing to build some doctrine upon. I am sure everyone will realize one day how wonderful God had created the universe, the stars, earth and much more.
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Post by mike on Feb 7, 2018 7:24:08 GMT -6
My own $0.02 @stephan is that our finite minds cant comprehend that what we see isnt the end of whats out there so we create things in our mind to resolve them. Think about how it would make sense to someone who thinks "the earth is flat and encompassed in a dome and science has lied to us for so long" it make sense to that person/people that theyve believed a lie for so long. Yet there is still no answer for many other things, like whats on the other side of the dome? Whats underneath the flat part of the earth? How do we explain simple things like the moon phases? Yet I digress and agree it is not worth building a doctrine on, nor do I personally feel worth pursuit of time and resources as mine is better spent trying to know Him more and sharing about Him with others. The ancillary issues detract from the atonement of Christ!
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Post by kjs on Feb 7, 2018 10:07:31 GMT -6
I think Mike is correct when he states our minds just do not understand ....
Taken from some websites to help explain ........
One of those issue concerns the second day of creation (Genesis 1:6-8), where God made the “expanse” or the “firmament.” The Hebrew word for this is raqia (pronounced ra-KEE-ah). Biblical scholars understand the raqia to be a solid dome-like structure. It separates the water into two parts, so that there is water above the raqia and water below it (v. 7). The waters above are kept at bay so the world can become inhabitable. On the third day (vv. 9-10), the water below the raqia is “gathered to one place” to form the sea and allow the dry land to appear.
Ancient Israelites “saw” this barrier when they looked up. There were no telescopes, space exploration, or means of testing the atmosphere. They relied on what their senses told them. Even today, looking up at a clear sky in open country, the sky seems to “begin” at the horizons and reaches up far above. Ancient Israelites and others in that part of the world assumed the world was flat, and so it looked like the earth is covered by a dome, and the “blue sky” is the “water above” held back by the raqia. The translation “firmament” (i.e., firm) gets across this idea of a solid structure.
Gen 1 14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
So Whatever this "firmament" is -- it is both "OPEN" and "Solid"
There is much debate on just what firmament really means -- most conclude that it must mean "heaven". Now some explain it this way -- that there are three heavens. 1) Heaven 1 is the "open expanse" or the atmosphere above the earth. 2) Heaven 2 is the "Out of Space" or the vacuum of Space that is just out of our atmosphere -- where Sun, Moon, and Stars reside. 3) Heaven 3 is above the Space Portion and is where God resides.
Nail down the definition of firmament -- and you maybe one step closer to understanding Genesis.......
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Post by fitz on Feb 7, 2018 10:29:05 GMT -6
I've always held to this "3 heavens" explanation, with the 3rd heaven being, not just "above" space...but beyond it, or outside of it. Basically, another dimension that one cannot see.
I also think that something with earth's atmosphere changed radically at the flood. It had never rained before, so God made something big happen in the "firmament"...at least in the first heaven.
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Post by mike on Feb 7, 2018 10:54:20 GMT -6
fitz the "firmament" issue can be very well explained in a book titled the Earth/Mars Wars (or was it Mars/Earth wars ) which we have linked in the Apologetics section. There is great evidence of laid out in several of the books listed as to how the solar system was formed and how it currently operates. Many event such as the Sun Dial going backwards and Joshuas long day can be explained through much research. I wont be dogmatic but it is worth the read for those looking to educate themselves further. I dont recall the info for the flood being fully available although @stephan may have some more insight on that
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 5:40:54 GMT -6
Unfortunately I don't remember the key points of the flood narrative. Must check the "flood book" again (The Biblical Flood and the Ice Epoch) before telling nonsense... Currently I am working on other topics
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Post by kjs on Mar 5, 2018 12:32:16 GMT -6
I still am not ready to set my education aside and say I live on a flat earth. That being said there are a few “recent” happenings that make me question some things being reported.
SpaceX CEO Elon Musk launched his now-famous red Tesla Roadster into space. According to Musk, they did NOTHING to the car to make it “space ready”. So according to the reporting, the Roadster is exactly the same as any other Tesla Roadster currently on Earth.
As any USA student knows (who has attended a High School Science class). If a balloon filled slightly with just a little bit of air when subject to a partial vacuum – will expand and possibly burst. That is of course because the inside atmosphere of the balloon does not match the outside atmosphere of the partial vacuum.
Here is the deal with the Tesla Roadster, which had four air filled tires. Based upon the supposed pictures taken in Space – all tires appear exactly as they would be on Earth. Yet, they are supposed to be in the near perfect vacuum of Space. Why is that? They should have exploded (because of too much internal pressure) or at least grossly been misshaped because the vacuum of space.
Second issue is bare metal in space within direct Sunlight can hit Temperatures of 2500°C (or roughly (3,630 °F)). At least two of the “pictures” show the Roadsters hood in direct Sunlight; yet the hood remained in tacked and not even evidence of the paint melting away.
Again, According to Musk, they did NOTHING to the car to make it “space ready” …. So no weird metals add to stand up to Temperatures of direct Sunlight…. Again, have to ask How is this possible?
So all of you scientist – out there – anyone want to comment on these riddles?
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