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Post by cwood85 on Feb 7, 2018 15:18:20 GMT -6
Amen to this man! For his fire and zeal for our Lord and Savior Jesus! Please listen to this video. It is about 30 minutes long. I am posting this in the Kingdom of God thread in the New Jerusalem Boardas it is in direct relation to what SK was relaying in that thread.
EDIT:
Removed link for being anti-Semitic and saying PreTrib is a lie....
Locking thread as well...
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Post by kjs on Feb 7, 2018 15:54:25 GMT -6
Amen to this man! For his fire and zeal for our Lord and Savior Jesus! Please listen to this video. It is about 30 minutes long. I am posting this in the Kingdom of God thread in the New Jerusalem Boardas it is in direct relation to what SK was relaying in that thread. I would suggest one "tread very lightly here".... There are a group of Amillennialist -- who call the current return of Israel as Zionism AND any Christian group which supports them as Christian Zionism. (such as claimed in this video) In other words their claim this return of Israel in 1948 is NOT really a work of God -- but simply Satan (and the worlds) attempt to delude Christians. This website is Premillennialism -- and therefore believes the return of Israel is indeed an act of God -- ushering in the End Times. |
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Post by cwood85 on Feb 7, 2018 15:59:12 GMT -6
I claim no distinction as being either of those beliefs. Both have flaws. But I think if Israel is driving out churches that teach the gospel, that is not good. That is persecution is it not?
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Post by kjs on Feb 7, 2018 16:15:48 GMT -6
I claim no distinction as being either of those beliefs. Both have flaws. But I think if Israel is driving out churches that teach the gospel, that is not good. That is persecution is it not? AGAIN - This website believes in Premillennialism..... IF you have an issue with that (and you saying both have flaws - suggest you are) ... seems to be indicating you are not in agreement with the rules of this website...... HERE is RULE 1 again..... 1. No debating core doctrines of the Christian faith. If you are participating here you should be a committed Believer. Seekers and non-Christians are more than welcome also, but this is a forum that honors God's Word and therefore arguments against His Word aren't for this forum... questions are welcome though! For purposes of this forum, "core doctrines" are considered to be the historic tenets of Christianity: One self-existent God, the Trinity, the Incarnation, the virgin birth, the full deity of Christ, the substitutionary atonement, the literal and physical resurrection of Christ, salvation through faith alone in Christ alone, a literal and future bodily resurrection of the dead, and a historical-grammatical interpretation of Scripture. Premillennialism, a literal rapture of the Church to Heaven, and a literal/historical interpretation of Genesis 1-11 are also considered core doctrines. |
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Post by cwood85 on Feb 7, 2018 16:45:44 GMT -6
I claim no distinction as being either of those beliefs. Both have flaws. But I think if Israel is driving out churches that teach the gospel, that is not good. That is persecution is it not? AGAIN - This website believes in Premillennialism..... IF you have an issue with that (and you saying both have flaws - suggest you are) ... seems to be indicating you are not in agreement with the rules of this website...... HERE is RULE 1 again..... 1. No debating core doctrines of the Christian faith. If you are participating here you should be a committed Believer. Seekers and non-Christians are more than welcome also, but this is a forum that honors God's Word and therefore arguments against His Word aren't for this forum... questions are welcome though! For purposes of this forum, "core doctrines" are considered to be the historic tenets of Christianity: One self-existent God, the Trinity, the Incarnation, the virgin birth, the full deity of Christ, the substitutionary atonement, the literal and physical resurrection of Christ, salvation through faith alone in Christ alone, a literal and future bodily resurrection of the dead, and a historical-grammatical interpretation of Scripture. Premillennialism, a literal rapture of the Church to Heaven, and a literal/historical interpretation of Genesis 1-11 are also considered core doctrines. Nothing in my post is debating core doctrine. I very much so believe in the rapture and the resurrection of the dead. It's the pre, mid, and post rapture viewpoints that I have issues with and those are not listed in the rule. Having varying viewpoints on this is also not against core doctrine and is discussed regularly on this website. I certainly also believe the rapture happens before the thousand year rein of Christ just so we are clear. Which I do believe he also mentions in the video that he believes as well in the millennial reign and we are gathered to Christ before the this time period. So that does not make me anti premillennialism, but I am allowed to disagree with some of the gray areas of this belief such as pre, mid, post or even if there is a seven year tribulation connecting the rapture at all. Not breaking any rules as far as I can tell. If I am in error, please explain further. |
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Post by Natalie on Feb 7, 2018 16:49:59 GMT -6
I have only watched the first ten minutes, but the guy claims that Christian Zionists made up the pre-trib rapture. That quite possibly breaks rule one. I'm guessing that if I watch the rest he's also going to break rule three. It's in his tone and attitude.
He also doesn't understand Christian Zionism. From the International Christian Embassy Jerusalem "If Zionism is the belief in the Jewish people's right to return to their homeland, then a Christian Zionist should simply be defined as a Christian who supports the Jewish people's right to return to their homeland."
Most Christians I know who support Israel also want to see them come to Christ. The cross has not been replaced with the Star of David. If anything, Christian Zionism has turned people's eyes to prophecy and the fact that Jesus is returning. If Israel is not allowing the Gospel to be preached, that's on them.
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Post by Natalie on Feb 7, 2018 16:53:12 GMT -6
And it is not Christian Zionists that have ruined the church...it's stuff like the seeker sensitive movement, emergent church movement, ecumenicalism, etc.
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Post by Natalie on Feb 7, 2018 17:18:40 GMT -6
I about can't take this guy's attitude, but have watched a bit more. I'd like to see this guy's information on the fact that Israel is chasing Christians out of Jerusalem. Wouldn't teachers like Amir Tsarfati and Joel Rosenberg be talking about this? I really wonder if this guy is anti-Semitic (that would be breaking rule #2).
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Post by Natalie on Feb 7, 2018 17:30:43 GMT -6
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Post by cwood85 on Feb 7, 2018 18:12:10 GMT -6
Just to clarify I do not think Jewish people do not have rights to land. They fought for it and won wars for it. Second I am not anti Semitic. I have Jewish heritage and ancestors who died in the holocaust. What I do not think is good though is funding from Christian churches for a temple to be built. The whole ideology behind the sacrifices completely denies what Jesus did on the cross and discredits the entire New Testament. To me it is actually worse than hating Jesus because instead of just not believing and denying what Jesus did, they are basically saying what they do is better to forgive sins. And many Zionist funding also ties into the temple funding from Christian churches. Anyone is allowed to believe whatever. Their fate is up to God, but funding and supporting something that completely denies Jesus and the gospel should be viewed differently than it is.
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Post by Natalie on Feb 7, 2018 18:35:12 GMT -6
A person would have to do more research than I have time for right now to find out where contributions come from to build the Temple. I don't imagine the money comes from the money Israel gets from our government. Maybe some does come from churches and Christian organizations, but I have no knowledge of which ones. I agree with you that Christians should be spreading the gospel and not be building the temple. But that video is making some serious accusations about anyone who supports Israel (they ruined America, made up the rapture, aren't worshiping Jesus, want to kick everyone but the Jew out of the Middle East).
He's also spreading misinformation (see my post about the taxes)...in other words...lying. And he's doing it to rile people up against Israel. Could that be seen as anti-Semitic? Maybe.
I hope that you didn't think I said anything about your stance on Israel or the Jews. I was only commenting on what I saw in the video.
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Post by cwood85 on Feb 7, 2018 19:03:44 GMT -6
A person would have to do more research than I have time for right now to find out where contributions come from to build the Temple. I don't imagine the money comes from the money Israel gets from our government. Maybe some does come from churches and Christian organizations, but I have no knowledge of which ones. I agree with you that Christians should be spreading the gospel and not be building the temple. But that video is making some serious accusations about anyone who supports Israel (they ruined America, made up the rapture, aren't worshiping Jesus, want to kick everyone but the Jew out of the Middle East). He's also spreading misinformation (see my post about the taxes)...in other words...lying. And he's doing it to rile people up against Israel. Could that be seen as anti-Semitic? Maybe. I hope that you didn't think I said anything about your stance on Israel or the Jews. I was only commenting on what I saw in the video. No Natalie I do not think you were saying that directly about me. I just wanted to put that out there as a general statement to anyone who may read. |
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Post by boraddict on Feb 7, 2018 19:16:28 GMT -6
Wow. He states he is declaring war on Christian Zionism. His distinction is that the salvation of souls takes president over the nation of Israel. Additionally, he seems to limit his work to the New Testament. Please correct me if I am wrong on these three major points.
First of all, how does war on Christian Zionism save souls? His contention is that we should embrace all groups including those worshiping all types of false gods in order to save souls; however, he wants to first destroy Christian Zionism. I can't help but laugh.
If those who are worshiping wicked and false gods choose to repent and follow Christ then great. In the meantime to suggest that we make way to placate them is crazy. Can I say asinine?
Thanks CW for pointing out this false teacher.
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Post by cwood85 on Feb 7, 2018 19:38:35 GMT -6
Wow. He states he is declaring war on Christian Zionism. His distinction is that the salvation of souls takes president over the nation of Israel. Additionally, he seems to limit his work to the New Testament. Please correct me if I am wrong on these three major points. First of all, how does war on Christian Zionism save souls? His contention is that we should embrace all groups including those worshiping all types of false gods in order to save souls; however, he wants to first destroy Christian Zionism. I can't help but laugh. If those who are worshiping wicked and false gods choose to repent and follow Christ then great. In the meantime to suggest that we make way to placate them is crazy. Can I say asinine? Thanks CW for pointing out this false teacher. I am going to have to rewatch this later because I do not remember him saying he embraced all groups that worshipped false gods. The main thing he said that I agree with is we should be over there preaching the gospel, not supporting them getting closer to doing their sacrifices. Maybe I am naive on a lot of this Zionism stuff that he talking about. And to that I do not think he is a false teacher on wanting to spread the gospel verses donating to a religion that 100% denies Christ and replaces all he did with their works of following the law. |
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Post by boraddict on Feb 7, 2018 22:25:44 GMT -6
Yes I stretched it a little bit; however, he was stretching things a lot by declaring war on Christian Zionists.
My point was, why take that approach? Scripture tells us that Judah will get a spanking for their conduct; however, their enemies will be destroyed.
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