|
Post by barbiosheepgirl on Dec 18, 2018 9:05:50 GMT -6
2“But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Too little to be among the clans of Judah,
From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel.
His goings forth are from long ago,
From the days of eternity.”
this verse and the others from the Old Testament prophecy to the coming of the Messiah (the 1st time)...are today's Jews looking at these same verses for their Messiah? If so, how do they reconcile this verse in light of who is in control of Bethlehem and who is populating Bethlehem today?
from a website: Israel remained in control of the city until 1995 when in compliance with the Oslo Peace Accord control of the city and surrounding West Bank was handed over to the Palestinian National Authority. The Palestinian Authority now has administrative and military control of the city....Today Bethlehem’s population is over 27,000; the residents are predominantly Muslim Arabs with approximately 40% Christian Arabs. Residents of Bethlehem hold Palestinian citizenship.
and this verse from Judges..
"For behold, you shall conceive and give birth to a son, and no razor shall come upon his head, for the boy shall be a Nazirite to God from the womb; and he shall begin to deliver Israel from the hands of the Philistines."
from wikipedia..In 2009, the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics reported that Nazareth's Arab population was 69% Muslim and 30.9% Christian.[106] The greater Nazareth metropolitan area had a population of 210,000, including 125,000 Arabs (59%) and 85,000 Jews (41%). It is the only urban area with over 50,000 residents in Israel where the majority of the population is Arab.
If we are watching the events unfolding in Israel while the Jews are looking for the arrival of their Messiah, has anyone asked Jewish scholars about the 1st Coming prophecies and how that would work out in light of today's circumstances in these 2 towns?
|
|
|
Post by fitz on Dec 18, 2018 9:50:38 GMT -6
It breaks my heart. Imagine how Jesus feels? They couldn't do simple math (given them by Daniel) and they wouldn't believe the miraculous when He came the first time.
And for 2000 years now, the name of Jesus has only been a curse word to them.
It's an amazing testimony to the long suffering love of God that He will forgive and save 1/3 of them. But oh, how bitterly will they weep when they realize what they've done.
Soon.
|
|
|
Post by mike on Dec 18, 2018 12:25:39 GMT -6
BSG - I often think about things like this. Sometimes I feel my own thoughts back in on how deep one can go down certain rabbit holes when trying to understand scripture.
As I think about how the Jews have historically explained away scriptures like this or even Isaiah 53 where they arrive Israel as the suffering servant.
This diluting of scriptures has led to severe error in writing of the Talmud, Midrash and other commentaries. Similarly today I feel we all need to take great care when applying others understandings of scriptures. When we really examine what the Bible states compared to what someone else had told us the Bible says we often end with variants of the truth. I think Stephanie's article helps expose this in greater detail.
I wish the veil was lifted for all to see the love story or God has written for us throughout history. As Fitz says above "soon".
Do you think Jesus took a Nazarite vow based on the verse from Judges?
|
|
|
Post by kjs on Dec 18, 2018 12:27:11 GMT -6
2“But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Too little to be among the clans of Judah,
From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel.
His goings forth are from long ago,
From the days of eternity.”this verse and the others from the Old Testament prophecy to the coming of the Messiah (the 1st time)...are today's Jews looking at these same verses for their Messiah? If so, how do they reconcile this verse in light of who is in control of Bethlehem and who is populating Bethlehem today? from a website: Israel remained in control of the city until 1995 when in compliance with the Oslo Peace Accord control of the city and surrounding West Bank was handed over to the Palestinian National Authority. The Palestinian Authority now has administrative and military control of the city....Today Bethlehem’s population is over 27,000; the residents are predominantly Muslim Arabs with approximately 40% Christian Arabs. Residents of Bethlehem hold Palestinian citizenship. and this verse from Judges.. "For behold, you shall conceive and give birth to a son, and no razor shall come upon his head, for the boy shall be a Nazirite to God from the womb; and he shall begin to deliver Israel from the hands of the Philistines."
from wikipedia..In 2009, the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics reported that Nazareth's Arab population was 69% Muslim and 30.9% Christian.[106] The greater Nazareth metropolitan area had a population of 210,000, including 125,000 Arabs (59%) and 85,000 Jews (41%). It is the only urban area with over 50,000 residents in Israel where the majority of the population is Arab. If we are watching the events unfolding in Israel while the Jews are looking for the arrival of their Messiah, has anyone asked Jewish scholars about the 1st Coming prophecies and how that would work out in light of today's circumstances in these 2 towns? You can find most of your implied questions HERE The Jews for Judaism website is one of those (Satanically influenced websites [my opinion] ) where it presents logically sounding arguments -- where Jesus cannot be the Messiah. Those who are not real scholars or even only passing interest -- then have their arguments -- prepared for them to avoid more defections into Christianity.
The entire chapter 11 of Romans -- lays out the entire concept as Paul saw it -- namely -- there is a partial blinding of "True Israel" until the fullness of Gentiles comes in. (Or until the last Gentile becomes a christian).
But overall (In my opinion) it is the fact that God in His wisdom -- clouded the scripture in such a way -- so Satan will only gain a hint of the coming "history" {I always loved Chuck Missler's take that Prophecy is simply history before it happens). Meaning God did not layout everything in a One, Two, Three Order -- so Satan would not know the exacts of what will happen.....
So when one reads Isaiah 52, 53, 54 -- one can clearly see Jesus being "spelled out" during His first Mission here -- BUT only as it revealed to us by the Holy Spirit. But without the Holy Spirit enable-meant -- one only sees a partial revealing -- and that not in a specific order.
My personal opinion (and I have been wrong before) when we start to see huge conversions of Jewish people to Christianity -- we might be seeing a crack in the Dam -- but also agree with Gary's belief that the true turning we only happen after the rapture.........
|
|
|
Post by cwood85 on Dec 18, 2018 12:56:15 GMT -6
mike“As I think about how the Jews have historically explained away scriptures like this or even Isaiah 53 where they arrive Israel as the suffering servant.” Isaiah 53 is forbidden scripture in Judaism. To the point that Rabbi teach that those who read it will be cursed severely by God himself 😕 It is a whole agenda of theirs to keep this underground. Those Rabbi have and have had a pretty good understanding of what Isaiah 53 is about. Just as they did 2000 years ago. There are entire missions and ministries over in Israel to hand out copies of Isaiah 53, often disguised as something else like a food menu or similar. Apparently that really works lol. But the majority response from Jews is that they have never seen that passage before and immediately know who it is about when it is read. The Rabbi try to counter these ministries by having radio broadcasts and commercials warning about “cults” trying to pass out the forbidden scriptures to curse and fool Jewish people. Israel/Judaism is being friendly towards Christianity at the moment because the USA and a lot of Christianity is helping and supporting them, particularly with their temple plans. However I have seen plenty of comments and responses from Jews who practice Judaism and they are not so nice. They believe when the Messiah (their version) comes that those who will not submit and covert to Judaism will be destroyed by God and tend to relate Christians to dogs or worse. Those who where Jews and have been lead to believing Jesus is the true Messiah are treated even worse. I long for the day when this sort of division and deceit no longer exists.
|
|
|
Post by mike on Dec 18, 2018 14:57:15 GMT -6
cwood85 - I should add a bit of color to my comment - that response about Isaiah 53 has been my experience with Jews in my area. There is a large well to do Jewish community in the town next to where I grew up/live currently. (It is where J Kushner is from also). I have asked this question to some in the past and they explain that Isa 53 is about Israel suffering persecution throughout the ages. Also I have not heard this commentary about being cursed regarding Isa 53 rather Dan 9:24-27 in the Talmud and other data supposing Christians " fit" the timeline of texts like Daniel 9 to meet an agenda “May the spirits of those who attempt to calculate the final time [of Maschiach’s coming] expire” (Sanhedrin 97B, quoted in chapter 12 of Hilchos Melachim from the Mishneh Torah of Rambam)."
|
|
|
Post by cwood85 on Dec 18, 2018 15:38:12 GMT -6
mikeI am sure there are a lot of differences between how things are taught and viewed here in the US vs. directly in Israel. Some of the rather colorful commentary has been seen on videos from this YouTube channel www.youtube.com/user/salvation7771I have only watched a few videos on the channel tbh, but his efforts are clear in talking to Jewish people about Christ. Cannot give a lot of details of what his entire theology or views are because I have not done a lot of research. But it is interesting to watch some of the reactions of those who have never seen Isaiah 53 and read it for the first time.
|
|