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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Mar 8, 2019 10:19:44 GMT -6
at this point from some of the things I have seen from places like breakingisraelnews and this video, …hanging out in this forum and reading various conversations on what we know or don't know of the revealing of Jesus Christ, it seems to me that Revelation is written ABOUT the jew in regards to how the Lord Jesus will come to be known to all and to reign on earth.
(dan 9)And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
(Rev 11)8And their dead bodies(two witnesses) will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. 13And in that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.
(Is 34)4And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. 8For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. 9And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. 10It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever. 11But the cormorant and the bittern shall possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones of emptiness.
(Luk 17)29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. (Book of Revelation) 33Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. ,,,,Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
As each day goes by, I pray the Lord continue to reveal these truths of a brethren that is burdened by the yoke of his uncircumcised heart. We know you have determined, predestined, blinded, awakened, impressed upon the heart of those Called, demonstrated Your discipline and mercy, grace and above all, LOVE. You have known each one of your children before being formed in the womb.. We will never fathom the mysteries of Your ways. Guard our hearts with all Your Armor as we watch events unfold before us. We give thanks for the grace You have bestowed in Your Son Jesus Christ, of Whom we wait so anxiously for His Revealing. Amen
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Post by cwood85 on Mar 8, 2019 10:43:44 GMT -6
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Post by boraddict on Mar 8, 2019 11:03:01 GMT -6
boraddict said: Do you derive this viewpoint from this statement? John 21:21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what [shall] this man [do]? 22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what [is that] to thee? follow thou me. 23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what [is that] to thee? Hi Mike. Yes to your question in addition to the fact that John wrote the BoR, as well as other supporting evidence. There is not a clear cut verse or scripture that I can point to but things like "two wings of a great eagle" (Rev. 12:14) in which the two witnesses (Ch. 11) are the two wings, and Lord Jesus is the Great Eagle. This is supported by the use of the word "they" in the parallel verse, Verse 12:6. There are other clues to the identity of the two witnesses. For instance these two witnesses have destructive power given to them (v. 11:5-6) that is defensive in nature but can plague the entire earth. That is a lot of power and is representative of the Son of David spoken of in OT script. Thus, I think that one of the two witnesses is John as the Son of David. However, it is not his purpose to defend Israel but function as a representative of Lord Jesus; giving his testimony to convert Jews and others to Christ. The problem with the suffering servant concept is that John has already suffered 2,000 years ago. Thus, he will not suffer as a witness of Christ but he will be killed upon the return of the Savior as one who is allowed to live until Lord Jesus returns; you know, like Elijah whom is also to return. These prophets as well as others have what is called the "testimony of Jesus Christ" (Rev. 1:9, 19:10) which means that they get to live till Lord Jesus returns. It does not mean that they are free from physical death, but that they will not die until The Savior returns to the earth. This means that they as well must return to the earth and I think this is supported by the angel coming to the earth in Verses 10:1 and 18:1. So I think the angels of the BoR are the prophets that have the testimony of Jesus.
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Post by davewatchman on Mar 8, 2019 11:20:11 GMT -6
Have the Jews accurately interpreted the AC and FP? No, they didn't. You decide; but in either case, a most compelling hypothesis, posted by david in the shoutbox: I didn't find it very compelling. Not at all. I'm sorry but I was not able to watch the video all the way through. I know that I should and will try again. It was hard for me too. I had to force myself. It was about as much fun as sticking pins in my eyes. That is, in my opinion the Rabbinical writings were the cause of the Savior's murder and the Rabbinical writings will be the cause of the two witnesses' murder. I agree. I would even go so far as to say that they already HAVE had a part in the murder of the two witnesses. This video in my opinion is entirely false doctrine. My opinion is ditto to yours. My opinion is that the rabbi in the video is a modern day "blind guide" in the same genre as the ones from the first century when Jesus originally coined the phrase. It sounded like he was making up a story as he was going along. And everyone's listening to him like they think he might know what he's talking about. Almost like: "David Ben Gurion's a messiah, I'm a messiah, he's a messiah, she's a messiah, wouldn't you like to be a messiah too. Drink a pepper, drink doctor pepper. Drink a pepper, drink doctor pepper. We are waiting for the real Messiah, Messiah the Prince. The Old Time Jews missed the time of their first Visitation, why would anyone think that they won't miss the time of the Second Visitation? The are blinded in part, blinded in the most important part. A couple weeks ago i was watching another video, the other rabbi with the Bible codes. I had to watch it three times because i couldn't understand the guy. I only watched it because he said the Messiah, singular, would be revealed on Purim. And Purim is also going to be on the third supermoon of the triad. But the guy sounded like he was on Thorazine, he was slurring his speech, barely understandable. I felt like i was guilty of consulting with some branch of the occult. I didn't think the video was worthy enough to post. I'm very sure that consulting with these guys is like consulting with the composite beast. They are a part of the composite beast. They are one of the five, the fifth, that has fallen. They have fallen, been proven false, by Jesus' birth, death and resurrection. Blinded in part until the fire falls from the sky in the full view of men. Just like on the day the Lot left out from Sodom, so shall it be on the day the the Son of Man is revealed. Then ALL of the many nations and peoples and tongues will know who the God of the Bible is, who the Messiah is, and that He is about to return.
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Post by mike on Mar 8, 2019 11:31:57 GMT -6
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Post by mike on Mar 8, 2019 11:48:49 GMT -6
boraddict said: Do you derive this viewpoint from this statement? John 21:21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what [shall] this man [do]? 22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what [is that] to thee? follow thou me. 23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what [is that] to thee? Hi Mike. Yes to your question in addition to the fact that John wrote the BoR, as well as other supporting evidence. There is not a clear cut verse or scripture that I can point to but things like "two wings of a great eagle" (Rev. 12:14) in which the two witnesses (Ch. 11) are the two wings, and Lord Jesus is the Great Eagle. This is supported by the use of the word "they" in the parallel verse, Verse 12:6. There are other clues to the identity of the two witnesses. For instance these two witnesses have destructive power given to them (v. 11:5-6) that is defensive in nature but can plague the entire earth. That is a lot of power and is representative of the Son of David spoken of in OT script. Thus, I think that one of the two witnesses is John as the Son of David. However, it is not his purpose to defend Israel but function as a representative of Lord Jesus; giving his testimony to convert Jews and others to Christ. The problem with the suffering servant concept is that John has already suffered 2,000 years ago. Thus, he will not suffer as a witness of Christ but he will be killed upon the return of the Savior as one who is allowed to live until Lord Jesus returns; you know, like Elijah whom is also to return. These prophets as well as others have what is called the "testimony of Jesus Christ" (Rev. 1:9, 19:10) which means that they get to live till Lord Jesus returns. It does not mean that they are free from physical death, but that they will not die until The Savior returns to the earth. This means that they as well must return to the earth and I think this is supported by the angel coming to the earth in Verses 10:1 and 18:1. So I think the angels of the BoR are the prophets that have the testimony of Jesus. OK - If I am understanding you correctly (and I recall you stating this once before somewhere) you are stating John, the disciple whom Christ loved is still alive on the earth? the verse from John 21 does not mean he would be kept alive until Christ returned, it was a point made to Peter to focus on his calling, not worry about what John would do or his calling. Point being here Peter was more concerned with what John would do than what Christ just told him he needed to do and how he would come to his death. Almost as if Peter didnt hear him. Peter glazed right over the fact the Lord just told him he would be crucified! Imagine Jesus looks you in the eye tells how integral you are to the kingdom, how you'll be led about where you dont want to go and ultimately how you'll die and the response he has is what about that guy?? so the Lord used something to get Peters attention by saying "If I choose to keep him alive...what business is it of yours, i'm telling you about you not him" Now if John was kept alive I could say your position may have merit. It is appointed for a man to die once then face judgment (Heb 9:27). So if John is one of the two witnesses he is still alive, but where is he? We know that there are two men that did not die, both were taken to be with the Lord, alive. It is possible these two men still require to have their fleshly bodies die and they would meet this requirement as the two witnesses. Its also very possible the two witness is metaphorical in nature (some propose OT & NT)...In any event I am sorry for diverging from the OP.
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Post by boraddict on Mar 8, 2019 11:49:19 GMT -6
Thank you yardstick, I did not know that this Jewish doctrine of two messiahs existed and they are clearly mixing things together to arrive at this conclusion. If we apply their definition of messiah to our belief system, then we can also say that we have two latter day messiahs that are the two witnesses of Revelation Chapter 11. However, the Jewish doctrine from the video contrives to include the Christ as one of their two messiahs and this is the false doctrine to which I was referring among other things. Thank you for reminding me that all Jewish doctrines are null and void. I would like to mention that I do believe in a latter day Son of David that is not Lord Jesus but John who wrote the BoR. However, the doctrine of the video teaches that their messiah is purely secular whereas I do not believe that John is secular but a teacher of Lord Jesus as one of the two witnesses (Chapter 11). Your item number 2 states that both the two messiahs are Jewish. However, the messiah from Judah would be Jewish and the other from Ephraim would he an Ephraimite. For us the two witnesses are killed but not in battle and they both are resurrected by God (Rev. 11:11).
Yes, for Christians, the 2 witnesses are indeed the '2 anointed ones' (messiah just means anointed). The 2 witnesses are Zerubabbel & Joshua of Zech 3 & 4 of which they are explicitly called the 'anointed ones' in Zech 4:14.
The Hebrew name for 'Joshua' is the same as Jesus' name (Yeshua). The same in Hebrew, Joshua = Yeshua. That's why Joshua/ Jesus is called the 'branch' that will build the temple.
The new "Joshua" / 2nd witness is Jesus' 2nd coming. Zerubabbel (means out of Babylon/ so he is like a traitor to Satan/ Satan's Judas if you will) & new Jesus/ Joshua are the 2 witnesses.
The Jewish 'messiah ben David & messiah ben Joseph' are imitating the 2 witnesses (one of which is new Jesus). The beast from the sea & earth are imitating Zerubabbel & Joshua taking over the world/ Jesus' new kingdom of heaven.
Hi blur. I do understand what you are saying; however, Zech. 4:14 states "These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth." The Lord of the whole earth is Lord Jesus. Therefore, the two anointed ones that are the two witnesses of Rev. 11 stand by Lord Jesus. To infer that Zech. 4:14 pertains to the two comings of the Savior to the earth is an error in my opinion. Thus, there are two comings of the Savior to the earth one of which was 2,000 years ago and one that is just around the corner. There are also two witnesses that stand by Lord Jesus as explained in Rev. Chapter 11. Zerubabbel and Joshua of Zech. 3 and 4 are not the two witnesses of Rev. 11 because the first two are physically dead and the second two are physically alive.
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blur
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Post by blur on Mar 8, 2019 18:47:02 GMT -6
Yes, for Christians, the 2 witnesses are indeed the '2 anointed ones' (messiah just means anointed). The 2 witnesses are Zerubabbel & Joshua of Zech 3 & 4 of which they are explicitly called the 'anointed ones' in Zech 4:14.
The Hebrew name for 'Joshua' is the same as Jesus' name (Yeshua). The same in Hebrew, Joshua = Yeshua. That's why Joshua/ Jesus is called the 'branch' that will build the temple.
The new "Joshua" / 2nd witness is Jesus' 2nd coming. Zerubabbel (means out of Babylon/ so he is like a traitor to Satan/ Satan's Judas if you will) & new Jesus/ Joshua are the 2 witnesses.
The Jewish 'messiah ben David & messiah ben Joseph' are imitating the 2 witnesses (one of which is new Jesus). The beast from the sea & earth are imitating Zerubabbel & Joshua taking over the world/ Jesus' new kingdom of heaven.
Hi blur. I do understand what you are saying; however, Zech. 4:14 states "These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth." The Lord of the whole earth is Lord Jesus. Therefore, the two anointed ones that are the two witnesses of Rev. 11 stand by Lord Jesus. To infer that Zech. 4:14 pertains to the two comings of the Savior to the earth is an error in my opinion. Thus, there are two comings of the Savior to the earth one of which was 2,000 years ago and one that is just around the corner. There are also two witnesses that stand by Lord Jesus as explained in Rev. Chapter 11. Zerubabbel and Joshua of Zech. 3 and 4 are not the two witnesses of Rev. 11 because the first two are physically dead and the second two are physically alive.
2 'anointed ones' standing by the Lord/ master of Zech 4:14 = 2 'anointed ones'/ 2 witnesses/ Zerubabbel & Joshua (and Joshua is the same Hebrew name as Yeshua) standing by the 'mighty angel standing on the earth & sea (which means God is taking dominion over the earth, with 'feet'/ standing meaning having dominion over a place; = new Joshua is given 'power' Rev 11:3)
why do people not accept this?
there are 2 (possibly 3) 'messiahs'/ 'anointed ones' mentioned in Daniel 9:25: one comes after 7 weeks, one comes after 62 weeks.
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Post by mike on Mar 8, 2019 19:16:57 GMT -6
blur - interesting, can you provide more detail on that? 2 or 3 messiah's. I'm not familiar with that view. In fact this video is the first I've heard of 2. My former familial ties never said 2 they would often in Yiddish "send meshiach now!" but not "send meshiach again" or "send the next meshiach"
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Post by boraddict on Mar 8, 2019 20:47:59 GMT -6
Hi blur. I do understand what you are saying; however, Zech. 4:14 states "These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth." The Lord of the whole earth is Lord Jesus. Therefore, the two anointed ones that are the two witnesses of Rev. 11 stand by Lord Jesus. To infer that Zech. 4:14 pertains to the two comings of the Savior to the earth is an error in my opinion. Thus, there are two comings of the Savior to the earth one of which was 2,000 years ago and one that is just around the corner. There are also two witnesses that stand by Lord Jesus as explained in Rev. Chapter 11. Zerubabbel and Joshua of Zech. 3 and 4 are not the two witnesses of Rev. 11 because the first two are physically dead and the second two are physically alive.
2 'anointed ones' standing by the Lord/ master of Zech 4:14 = 2 'anointed ones'/ 2 witnesses/ Zerubabbel & Joshua (and Joshua is the same Hebrew name as Yeshua) standing by the 'mighty angel standing on the earth & sea (which means God is taking dominion over the earth, with 'feet'/ standing meaning having dominion over a place; = new Joshua is given 'power' Rev 11:3)
why do people not accept this?
there are 2 (possibly 3) 'messiahs'/ 'anointed ones' mentioned in Daniel 9:25: one comes after 7 weeks, one comes after 62 weeks.
Hi blur. Let's consider this together and leave out bible-hub and other sites that may have errors in their interpretations. In fact, many of these places do error in their analysis. So let's you and I look at the evidence as stated in Zech. Chapters 3 and 4 as well as any other evidence you wish to consider. The only thing that I ask is that we use only the King James Version because I feel most comfortable there. Additionally, what is your religious background. For me I was raised in an atheist home and my parents were divorced when I was 13 years old. Then at the age of 19 I became curious and investigated several doctrines. In the end I liked Hair-Krishna because it was so outlandishly false and I was going to join but never did. I liked the jumping and singing and was going to go work on a farm in Kentucky or somewhere there about. However, that which made it so attractive was that is was clearly false. I did not need to consider the doctrine as potentially true. But like I said, I did not join and began to read scripture to learn for myself what it said. So for me, I do not lean towards any church but my own analysis. There was a time that I felt handicapped from this deficiency of not being taught in my youth. But now I find that it is great blessing to read scripture and find what is says on my own. So if you are willing to go down that rabbit hole and see where it goes then lets do it together. I am confident that we can find the truth. Perhaps we should begin a separate thread.
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Post by yardstick on Mar 8, 2019 23:34:19 GMT -6
Thanks Fitz, yes because His name is so Holy, they won't say His name or spell it. Ever notice "L-rd" or "G-d". rather than refer to Him as YHWH they use Ha-Shem (the name) like a nickname almost. Similar to how we hear or see Yeshua Ha-Meshioch "the Messiah" Stick - as for the "Mahdi" I find it interesting that the Jews are expecting the first messiah to come now. In the video there was a quick screen that said something like "Please set their timing aside I want you to see what they're expecting" and such we should also consider what the Muslims are expecting. We know the truth of what's coming. It may be a bit foggy as to specific timing and there are some possibilities about how things play out in precision but we are not asleep! Those who are expecting the Mahdi or the two messiahs will have their fulfillment most likely in the form of the false prophet and anti-christ. That's how I see it too.
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Post by yardstick on Mar 8, 2019 23:57:39 GMT -6
Thank you yardstick, I did not know that this Jewish doctrine of two messiahs existed and they are clearly mixing things together to arrive at this conclusion. If we apply their definition of messiah to our belief system, then we can also say that we have two latter day messiahs that are the two witnesses of Revelation Chapter 11. However, the Jewish doctrine from the video contrives to include the Christ as one of their two messiahs and this is the false doctrine to which I was referring among other things. Thank you for reminding me that all Jewish doctrines are null and void. I would like to mention that I do believe in a latter day Son of David that is not Lord Jesus but John who wrote the BoR. However, the doctrine of the video teaches that their messiah is purely secular whereas I do not believe that John is secular but a teacher of Lord Jesus as one of the two witnesses (Chapter 11). Your item number 2 states that both the two messiahs are Jewish. However, the messiah from Judah would be Jewish and the other from Ephraim would he an Ephraimite. For us the two witnesses are killed but not in battle and they both are resurrected by God (Rev. 11:11).
Yes, for Christians, the 2 witnesses are indeed the '2 anointed ones' (messiah just means anointed). The 2 witnesses are Zerubabbel & Joshua of Zech 3 & 4 of which they are explicitly called the 'anointed ones' in Zech 4:14.
The Hebrew name for 'Joshua' is the same as Jesus' name (Yeshua). The same in Hebrew, Joshua = Yeshua. That's why Joshua/ Jesus is called the 'branch' that will build the temple.
The new "Joshua" / 2nd witness is Jesus' 2nd coming. Zerubabbel (means out of Babylon/ so he is like a traitor to Satan/ Satan's Judas if you will) & new Jesus/ Joshua are the 2 witnesses.
The Jewish 'messiah ben David & messiah ben Joseph' are imitating the 2 witnesses (one of which is new Jesus). The beast from the sea & earth are imitating Zerubabbel & Joshua taking over the world/ Jesus' new kingdom of heaven.
I believe there is a distinction between the two messiahs referred to in the video and the two witnesses of Revelation. In Revelation, the two witnesses are in no way identified as being involved in any military activity whatsoever. They stand in Jerusalem and witness to the jews ( boraddict - when i use the term jews, I am referring to all of the descendants of Jacob/Israel, regardless of their tribal affiliation/bloodline). They call down plagues (I wonder if these are the same as the vial judgements...) and can kill whomever attempts to harm them. Nothing else (in regard to their character) is explained, other than their murder (presumably by the AC) and subsequent resurrection (and harpazo) are explained. I am not sure we should draw the conclusion that they are in any way shape or form, the same two people identified as messiahs by the commentator in the video. Especially when the commentator is so adamant to explain that the first 'messiah' is a military, violent man, killed in battle (hardly murdered in Jerusalem whilst witnessing). Although I firmly believe that one of the two witnesses will be the messenger of love, and the other the messenger of punishment/judgement, I cannot reconcile either of them as being anything like the two messiahs in the video.
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Post by yardstick on Mar 9, 2019 0:33:09 GMT -6
2 'anointed ones' standing by the Lord/ master of Zech 4:14 = 2 'anointed ones'/ 2 witnesses/ Zerubabbel & Joshua (and Joshua is the same Hebrew name as Yeshua) standing by the 'mighty angel standing on the earth & sea (which means God is taking dominion over the earth, with 'feet'/ standing meaning having dominion over a place; = new Joshua is given 'power' Rev 11:3)
why do people not accept this?
there are 2 (possibly 3) 'messiahs'/ 'anointed ones' mentioned in Daniel 9:25: one comes after 7 weeks, one comes after 62 weeks.
Hi blur. Let's consider this together and leave out bible-hub and other sites that may have errors in their interpretations. In fact, many of these places do error in their analysis. So let's you and I look at the evidence as stated in Zech. Chapters 3 and 4 as well as any other evidence you wish to consider. The only thing that I ask is that we use only the King James Version because I feel most comfortable there. Additionally, what is your religious background. For me I was raised in an atheist home and my parents were divorced when I was 13 years old. Then at the age of 19 I became curious and investigated several doctrines. In the end I liked Hair-Krishna because it was so outlandishly false and I was going to join but never did. I liked the jumping and singing and was going to go work on a farm in Kentucky or somewhere there about. However, that which made it so attractive was that is was clearly false. I did not need to consider the doctrine as potentially true. But like I said, I did not join and began to read scripture to learn for myself what it said. So for me, I do not lean towards any church but my own analysis. There was a time that I felt handicapped from this deficiency of not being taught in my youth. But now I find that it is great blessing to read scripture and find what is says on my own. So if you are willing to go down that rabbit hole and see where it goes then lets do it together. I am confident that we can find the truth. Perhaps we should begin a separate thread. Let us be careful here, regarding disparagement of translations. The KJV also has its share of questionable interpretations. Remember also, that we are discussing a 'non-essential' and so let us give as much charity as we can towards other perspectives.
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blur
New Member
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Post by blur on Mar 9, 2019 9:57:44 GMT -6
Yes, for Christians, the 2 witnesses are indeed the '2 anointed ones' (messiah just means anointed). The 2 witnesses are Zerubabbel & Joshua of Zech 3 & 4 of which they are explicitly called the 'anointed ones' in Zech 4:14.
The Hebrew name for 'Joshua' is the same as Jesus' name (Yeshua). The same in Hebrew, Joshua = Yeshua. That's why Joshua/ Jesus is called the 'branch' that will build the temple.
The new "Joshua" / 2nd witness is Jesus' 2nd coming. Zerubabbel (means out of Babylon/ so he is like a traitor to Satan/ Satan's Judas if you will) & new Jesus/ Joshua are the 2 witnesses.
The Jewish 'messiah ben David & messiah ben Joseph' are imitating the 2 witnesses (one of which is new Jesus). The beast from the sea & earth are imitating Zerubabbel & Joshua taking over the world/ Jesus' new kingdom of heaven.
I believe there is a distinction between the two messiahs referred to in the video and the two witnesses of Revelation. In Revelation, the two witnesses are in no way identified as being involved in any military activity whatsoever. They stand in Jerusalem and witness to the jews ( boraddict - when i use the term jews, I am referring to all of the descendants of Jacob/Israel, regardless of their tribal affiliation/bloodline). They call down plagues (I wonder if these are the same as the vial judgements...) and can kill whomever attempts to harm them. Nothing else (in regard to their character) is explained, other than their murder (presumably by the AC) and subsequent resurrection (and harpazo) are explained. I am not sure we should draw the conclusion that they are in any way shape or form, the same two people identified as messiahs by the commentator in the video. Especially when the commentator is so adamant to explain that the first 'messiah' is a military, violent man, killed in battle (hardly murdered in Jerusalem whilst witnessing). Although I firmly believe that one of the two witnesses will be the messenger of love, and the other the messenger of punishment/judgement, I cannot reconcile either of them as being anything like the two messiahs in the video.
if you had read my last sentence, I said that messiah ben David and messiah ben Joseph are IMITATING the 2 witnesses. The 'mortally head wounded shepherd' (what people call the AC) & the false prophet are IMITATIONS of the 2 witnesses. The notions of 'messiah ben David' & Joseph ARE actually promoting the AC & FP as holy people.
Is that clear enough? The correct understanding is based on the VERY BIBLICAL BASIS of Zechariah 4:14 which describes 2 anointed ones. (I DON'T WATCH VIDEOS as they are a waste of time). THE 2 witnesses are the 2 anointed ones. The Hebrew term 'maschiach' just means 'anointed'. Therefore, there are 2 'messiahs': BECAUSE THERE ARE 2 ANOINTED ONES, ZERUBABBEL & JOSHUA
Why are you misrepresenting what I said? I said nothing about 2 witnesses being 'military leaders'.
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blur
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Post by blur on Mar 9, 2019 10:00:01 GMT -6
2 'anointed ones' standing by the Lord/ master of Zech 4:14 = 2 'anointed ones'/ 2 witnesses/ Zerubabbel & Joshua (and Joshua is the same Hebrew name as Yeshua) standing by the 'mighty angel standing on the earth & sea (which means God is taking dominion over the earth, with 'feet'/ standing meaning having dominion over a place; = new Joshua is given 'power' Rev 11:3)
why do people not accept this?
there are 2 (possibly 3) 'messiahs'/ 'anointed ones' mentioned in Daniel 9:25: one comes after 7 weeks, one comes after 62 weeks.
Hi blur. Let's consider this together and leave out bible-hub and other sites that may have errors in their interpretations. In fact, many of these places do error in their analysis. So let's you and I look at the evidence as stated in Zech. Chapters 3 and 4 as well as any other evidence you wish to consider. The only thing that I ask is that we use only the King James Version because I feel most comfortable there. Additionally, what is your religious background. For me I was raised in an atheist home and my parents were divorced when I was 13 years old. Then at the age of 19 I became curious and investigated several doctrines. In the end I liked Hair-Krishna because it was so outlandishly false and I was going to join but never did. I liked the jumping and singing and was going to go work on a farm in Kentucky or somewhere there about. However, that which made it so attractive was that is was clearly false. I did not need to consider the doctrine as potentially true. But like I said, I did not join and began to read scripture to learn for myself what it said. So for me, I do not lean towards any church but my own analysis. There was a time that I felt handicapped from this deficiency of not being taught in my youth. But now I find that it is great blessing to read scripture and find what is says on my own. So if you are willing to go down that rabbit hole and see where it goes then lets do it together. I am confident that we can find the truth. Perhaps we should begin a separate thread.
There is no 'error' in the original Hebrew text, which is all the interlinear Bible is. The 'error' would only lie in a translation such as the KJV.
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