9/23/17: The Great Sign Thread

Hello all. Wow so much to chew on. Today I speak boldly in the name of Yeshua Ha'Mashiach and may YHWH strike me dead this day if I lead any man astray.

I am not a profit nor am I a god. I am simply a friend of Yeshua my Savior and the one true God. With all Love and humility I proclaim these words.

This is my understanding as lead by the Holy Spirit of passages quoted in this thread.
In Mat24:36 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Yeshua is talking to his disciples and He is talking about His 2nd coming and not about the rapture. At this point in time the church (body of Christ) did not exist. The church wasn’t actually conceived until around Acts 9:18 when Saul was baptized with the Holy Spirit. The rapture and the 2nd coming are two separate events. The events Yeshua is talking about all through Mat24 are all end time events after the rapture has taken place.

So many people today think that the bible is full of contradictions. I’m hear to testify that there is not a single contradiction in YHWH’s word. Acts 2:15 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

In Luke 17 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 zTwo men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

The original Greek word here is 108 ἀετός (aetos), οῦ (ou), ὁ (ho): n.masc.; ≡ DBLHebr 5979; DBLAram 10495; Str 105—LN 4.42 eagle (Rev 4:7; 8:13; 12:14+) vulture (Mt 24:28; Lk 17:37+) note: these distinctions are inferred by context
DBL Greek

In Mat 13 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity

As you can see in Mat 13 His armies that come back with Him, the Angles (Not the Raptured Church) gather those “that offend and which do iniquity.” They are gathered and burned, the ones left are the tribulation saints. They will have to endure to the end.

May all come to salvation through Yeshua and through Him alone. You can not add to His good works nor can you take away.
My hope is that I have not offended anyone and I’m sure not everyone will agree with me. That’s ok I love you all.
2Ti 2:15

For instance my currently understood timeline would go something like this:

1. Jesus returns in the air (the Rapture) shortly, perhaps at the time of the Rev. 12 alinement, or a little before, or a little after. He takes all the saved Church members with Him to Heaven.
2. Concurrently with 1. Satan tries to ambush the saints at the rapture, kicking off a massive war in heaven between his forces and Michael leading God's forces. It may last up to 3.5 years. At some point, it results in satan being kicked out of Heaven for good, and bringing his wrath and influence down to earth to vex humanity.
3. Also about the same time, a notable peace deal will be made with Israel and its enemies. This begins the 70th Week of Daniel.
4. This treaty will almost instantly be broken, perhaps in a war like that described in Psalm 83.
5. This war will be won quickly, and Israel will live in relative peace for 3.5 years. They will build the temple rather quickly and begin temple worship.
6. Concurrently with #1-4. The 2 Witnesses will appear and begin preaching in Jerusalem. Either because of this, or concurrently, the 144,000 will also trust Christ as savior and begin their ministry.
7. After 3.5 years, in which many souls are saved and probably martyred, we have a mid-point of the 7-year Tribulation. About this time, the 2 Witnesses are killed, resurrected, and raptured up to Heaven.
8. Quite possibly, though not conclusively, the 144,000 may also be raptured at or near the mid-point.
9. After point 7., the man of perdition shall enter the temple and commit the Abomination of Desolation.
10. Because of point 9., many of the Israelites who previously did not believe in Christ will recognize the AOD and head for the hills--literally. Many of them will escape to safety. . . .
11. The dragon, satan, will chase after the Israelites of 10. above, but will not prevail against them, and they will be hidden for the remaining 3.5 years of the Tribulation (70th week).
12. Beginning with point 9, the trumpet judgments begin and continue through to near the end of the 7th year.
13. The bowl judgments occur over a very short period of time, culminating at point 14:
14. Near the end of the 7th year, the armies of the earth shall gather for Armageddon (to attack Israel).
15. Jesus Christ (Yeshua) and his army of saints come down from Heaven at the battle of Armageddon and Jesus destroys the gathered armies.
16. Jesus presents Himself to the Israelites and they mourn for Him as an only Son.
17. Jesus sends His angels to gather the non-believers and cast them into Hell.
18. All the remaining peoples of the earth, who are ready to accept Jesus as savior and king, travel (or are gathered) to Jerusalem where the kingdom is established.

There are a few wild-card items I don't know for sure how to fit, such as the destruction of Babylon and the great whore, as well as Gog's invasion, which may or may not be the same as Armageddon.

Hello watchmanjim that’s a very nice timeline and I would have to agree with most of it.
I do believe that between points 3 and 5 there will be what Paul tells us in
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV 1900)
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

And Paul tells us why this falling away happens in verse 11
2 Thessalonians 2:11 (KJV 1900)
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Very near the beginning of Daniel’s 70th week
Many will fall away from YHWH and even revolt against Him.

At point 8, the 144,000 are sealed with YHWH’s name no harm will come to them. They will endure to the end and then remain on earth with Christ and His earthly Kingdom.

God Bless~
2Ti 2:15

I'm sorry watchmanjim I should have tried to be a bit more clear on the "Falling Away". I believe those are them that have always denied YHWH and just continued in sin. I believe like Paul say's in 2Th 2 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Hope that makes more sense to ya

God Bless~
2Ti 2:15
The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., 2 Th 2:11). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

I take "falling away" to mean those believers who have yielded to the world and no longer profess Christ. However, there is the underlying presupposition with most people that the term means that someone has worked their way out of heaven. I think that presupposition involves a fundamental misunderstanding on what salvation is based upon. 

When you initially put your faith in Christ, you are bought for a price, sealed, and it is form then on, God that saves YOU - God remains faithful to HIS promise regardless of you. Thus those that have fallen away are still saved, yet they will lose rewards at the Bema Seat. They also are no longer useful for the advancement of the Gospel, and they face the chastisement of God - perhaps even being taken home before their time - and they lose all joy that comes with a fellowship with God. I know this from personal experience. 

I don't think you can fall away if you were never standing in Christ in the first place. 

What if the "falling away" is because the rapture doesn't occur ON sept 23? Even though most of us are saying over and over and over that there is no guarantee that the sign means that on that day. That still seems to be the "takeaway" message people who are not really studying it get.

On the other hand, I have always thought the "apostasia" definition of meaning the rapture made a lot of sense too. We'll just have to wait and see which occurs first.

Hello, hyperman777! Welcome to the forum!