Abomination of Desolation
Sept 3, 2020 10:02:14 GMT -6
yardstick, disciple4life, and 2 more like this
Post by mike on Sept 3, 2020 10:02:14 GMT -6
venge Natalie disciple4life barbiosheepgirl stormyknight inaweofhim stormyknight
Yesterday I attempted to post this but after about an hour and a half somehow I was logged off and the post was gone. I am going to try this again because I would like for us to discuss this further (Today I did the writing in Word, then posted). This is no way limited to those tagged here, nor is it 'required' you participate
As I reviewed the information it brought to mind the conversation on Third Temple thread and the Abomination of Desolation thread that was going but seems to have to tapered off. This video by Nelson Walters was posted yesterday. I am posting it to give credit for it, but I also put together a fairly detailed summary in the event you don’t have time to listen to it. Although I do recommend you would as he presents it better than I will here in summation.
Firstly this video focused more on what is being desolated rather than the abomination itself.
Abomination
(Dan 9:27) 8251 shiqquts: detested thing. from shaqats; disgusting, i.e. Filthy; especially idolatrous or (concretely) an idol -- abominable filth (idol, -ation), detestable (thing).
(Mark 13:14) 946 bdelugma: a detestable thing. properly, what emits a foul odor and hence is disgustingly abhorrent (abominable, detestable); (figuratively) moral horror as a stench to God (like when people refuse to hear and obey His voice).
Desolation
(Dan 9:27) 8074 shamem: to be desolated or appalled. make amazed, be astonished, be an astonishment, be, bring into, unto, lay, lie to stun (or intransitively, grow numb), i.e. Devastate or (figuratively) stupefy (both usually in a passive sense)
(Mark 13:14) 2050 erémósis: a making desolate. that results from being cut off (isolated).
9:27 He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple, until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.”
shamem occurs over 80 times in the OT and refers to the temple being abandoned or the land being abandoned.
Lev 26:31 And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation (shamem), and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours. 32 And I will bring the land into desolation (shamem): and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it.
Many see that the desolation that occurs is the temple. For instance in the below the glory of the Lord departed the temple. But can the presence of God leave the temple if it isn’t there.
Eze 10:18 Then the glory of the LORD departed from off the threshold of the house, and stood over the cherubims.
Did the presence of the Lord fill the second (Herods) temple? YES! Gods presence did fill the temple, in the form of Jesus Himself! But sin caused Him to depart the temple. (my observation – notice how Jesus called the temple “My Fathers House” & “My House”? John 2:16, Luke 19:46). As He departed the temple He referred to it as “Your House”
Matt 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Is there evidence as to why God would fill the “third temple” a temple made of human hands?
1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
The hearts of believers are the temple, so would the presence of God ever fill a third temple?
Eze 43:1 Afterward he brought me to the gate, [even] the gate that looketh toward the east: 2 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice [was] like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory. 3 And [it was] according to the appearance of the vision which I saw, [even] according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city: and the visions [were] like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face. 4 And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect [is] toward the east. 5 So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house.
This indicates that the Lord will again fill a temple, a physical temple possibly constructed with human hands. Will this be the third temple which many are looking forward to see built? Doesn’t it depend on the timing of where we place this verse? If its at the end of the 1000 years it makes much more sense as placing it prior would contradict with 1 Cor 3:16 (and other verses<-my insertion).
The temple described in Ezekiel is too large to sit on the temple mount site, which would make this more likely the millennial temple. If Jesus left Herods temple desolate, why would God return there. Much more likely that the glory returning would be Jesus Himself. Also Jews sacrificing goats, bulls etc to atone for sin would be blasphemous!
It appears the temple being left desolate does not fit and is contradictory. (my comment – although this would cause some to disagree please continue on)
Lets examine the Land being left desolate
Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation (eremosis) thereof is nigh
Jerusalem desolate? WHAT!
Luke 21:23 Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days, for there will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
(this piqued my interest and though not discussed in the video makes me think here -> Rev 11:2)
Many will be killed and many taken into captivity. Two thirds of those will be killed and half of the remaining third taken to exile! The OT prophets speak about this desolation in great detail.
(While writing this yesterday I looked at wiki for the population of Jerusalem. Its pretty interesting as you can see what groups historically populated the city. The current estimate is about 932,000)
Zech 13:8 In the whole land this is the LORD’s declaration two-thirds will be cut off and die, but a third will be left in it.
Zech 14:2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city.
(my comment - the remaining third eg of 932,000 = 310,667, meaning about 622,000 are killed. Of the 310,000 half are taken to captivity)
Deut 30:3 then the LORD your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the LORD your God has scattered you.
When Jesus returns He will gather them back into their land
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I [am] the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them anymore there.
How does the abomination of desolation cause the desolation of Israel?
Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: ) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains…21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
The Anti-Christ is going to sit in the temple and declare himself to be God, but in order to do so he has to invade. Luke 21 speaks of the surrounding of Jerusalem by armies to invade. The Luke passage refers to 70 AD, but as a foreshadow as v. 22 indicates this is future For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. All is not fulfilled as of yet
Understanding this is future, the Abomination of Desolation cannot take place until the city is surrounded by armies
Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [sacrifice], and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
He talks about the Pope sitting in the Vatican but this isn’t the AoD
He then discusses the possible length of the invasion using Eze 4:1-2, 5-6 and combines the 390 + 40. He also refers to Eze 5:12-14 for this invasion, including famine, and sword.
I found this most interesting as we see the land for peace & prosperity deal continue to unfold.
Yesterday I attempted to post this but after about an hour and a half somehow I was logged off and the post was gone. I am going to try this again because I would like for us to discuss this further (Today I did the writing in Word, then posted). This is no way limited to those tagged here, nor is it 'required' you participate
As I reviewed the information it brought to mind the conversation on Third Temple thread and the Abomination of Desolation thread that was going but seems to have to tapered off. This video by Nelson Walters was posted yesterday. I am posting it to give credit for it, but I also put together a fairly detailed summary in the event you don’t have time to listen to it. Although I do recommend you would as he presents it better than I will here in summation.
Firstly this video focused more on what is being desolated rather than the abomination itself.
Abomination
(Dan 9:27) 8251 shiqquts: detested thing. from shaqats; disgusting, i.e. Filthy; especially idolatrous or (concretely) an idol -- abominable filth (idol, -ation), detestable (thing).
(Mark 13:14) 946 bdelugma: a detestable thing. properly, what emits a foul odor and hence is disgustingly abhorrent (abominable, detestable); (figuratively) moral horror as a stench to God (like when people refuse to hear and obey His voice).
Desolation
(Dan 9:27) 8074 shamem: to be desolated or appalled. make amazed, be astonished, be an astonishment, be, bring into, unto, lay, lie to stun (or intransitively, grow numb), i.e. Devastate or (figuratively) stupefy (both usually in a passive sense)
(Mark 13:14) 2050 erémósis: a making desolate. that results from being cut off (isolated).
9:27 He will make a firm covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple, until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.”
shamem occurs over 80 times in the OT and refers to the temple being abandoned or the land being abandoned.
Lev 26:31 And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation (shamem), and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours. 32 And I will bring the land into desolation (shamem): and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it.
Many see that the desolation that occurs is the temple. For instance in the below the glory of the Lord departed the temple. But can the presence of God leave the temple if it isn’t there.
Eze 10:18 Then the glory of the LORD departed from off the threshold of the house, and stood over the cherubims.
Did the presence of the Lord fill the second (Herods) temple? YES! Gods presence did fill the temple, in the form of Jesus Himself! But sin caused Him to depart the temple. (my observation – notice how Jesus called the temple “My Fathers House” & “My House”? John 2:16, Luke 19:46). As He departed the temple He referred to it as “Your House”
Matt 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Is there evidence as to why God would fill the “third temple” a temple made of human hands?
1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
The hearts of believers are the temple, so would the presence of God ever fill a third temple?
Eze 43:1 Afterward he brought me to the gate, [even] the gate that looketh toward the east: 2 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice [was] like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory. 3 And [it was] according to the appearance of the vision which I saw, [even] according to the vision that I saw when I came to destroy the city: and the visions [were] like the vision that I saw by the river Chebar; and I fell upon my face. 4 And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect [is] toward the east. 5 So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house.
This indicates that the Lord will again fill a temple, a physical temple possibly constructed with human hands. Will this be the third temple which many are looking forward to see built? Doesn’t it depend on the timing of where we place this verse? If its at the end of the 1000 years it makes much more sense as placing it prior would contradict with 1 Cor 3:16 (and other verses<-my insertion).
The temple described in Ezekiel is too large to sit on the temple mount site, which would make this more likely the millennial temple. If Jesus left Herods temple desolate, why would God return there. Much more likely that the glory returning would be Jesus Himself. Also Jews sacrificing goats, bulls etc to atone for sin would be blasphemous!
It appears the temple being left desolate does not fit and is contradictory. (my comment – although this would cause some to disagree please continue on)
Lets examine the Land being left desolate
Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation (eremosis) thereof is nigh
Jerusalem desolate? WHAT!
Luke 21:23 Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days, for there will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
(this piqued my interest and though not discussed in the video makes me think here -> Rev 11:2)
Many will be killed and many taken into captivity. Two thirds of those will be killed and half of the remaining third taken to exile! The OT prophets speak about this desolation in great detail.
(While writing this yesterday I looked at wiki for the population of Jerusalem. Its pretty interesting as you can see what groups historically populated the city. The current estimate is about 932,000)
Zech 13:8 In the whole land this is the LORD’s declaration two-thirds will be cut off and die, but a third will be left in it.
Zech 14:2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city.
(my comment - the remaining third eg of 932,000 = 310,667, meaning about 622,000 are killed. Of the 310,000 half are taken to captivity)
Deut 30:3 then the LORD your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the LORD your God has scattered you.
When Jesus returns He will gather them back into their land
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I [am] the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them anymore there.
How does the abomination of desolation cause the desolation of Israel?
Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: ) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains…21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
The Anti-Christ is going to sit in the temple and declare himself to be God, but in order to do so he has to invade. Luke 21 speaks of the surrounding of Jerusalem by armies to invade. The Luke passage refers to 70 AD, but as a foreshadow as v. 22 indicates this is future For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. All is not fulfilled as of yet
Understanding this is future, the Abomination of Desolation cannot take place until the city is surrounded by armies
Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [sacrifice], and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
He talks about the Pope sitting in the Vatican but this isn’t the AoD
He then discusses the possible length of the invasion using Eze 4:1-2, 5-6 and combines the 390 + 40. He also refers to Eze 5:12-14 for this invasion, including famine, and sword.
I found this most interesting as we see the land for peace & prosperity deal continue to unfold.
wut wut!