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Post by mike on Nov 23, 2022 9:41:35 GMT -6
This was in the shoutbox with boymaker and leewiggins63 - I want to preserve and discuss please leewiggins63 said: boymaker said: leewiggins63 replied:
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Post by mike on Nov 23, 2022 10:43:51 GMT -6
From the LSV: 2Tim 2:19 sure, nevertheless, the foundation of God has stood, having this seal: “The LORD has known those who are His,” and, “Let him depart from unrighteousness—everyone who is naming the Name of Christ.”ESV: 19 but God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”What passage(s) are being quoted? From Bible Hub - Barnes Notes Seems this is not a direct/verbatim quote but as in several NT texts, the quote is a paraphrase or summary of the OT passage or passages combined. leewiggins63 I do think this does address your question to some degree. In addition Eph 4:30 also shows that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.But how do we reconcile this with Rev 7:3? Does what the Holy Spirit does for us internally and unseen now become a literal visible mark on our foreheads? I understand many here think we will be gathered to Him before this happens, but nonetheless this does indicate some will believers will be on earth at this time of the sealing on the foreheads. In either case does the internal now also become external as well?
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Post by boymaker99 on Nov 24, 2022 14:10:13 GMT -6
I find that this line of thinking requires me to assume things I cannot prove, so it's a lot of clumsy guessing.
I will try to first address the need for a visible mark of salvation in the Tribulation.
If the Church is raptured before Tribulation, then there will be no witnesses to the Lord on Earth. I suspect the 144K who are sealed in Tribulation are different from the Church but still evangelize as the vision John had mentioned the massive Tribulation saint influx in the very next scripture.
It does not say that the 144K had any choice in the matter. Election is active in the Tribulation. It's for their good, and His glory, and not contingent on their works.
What is the purpose of the seal put on the 144K? Is He saving 12K from each tribe as a remnant for His pleasure and glory, or to be evangelists? The Tribulation saints are "countless" from every tribe, so they aren't the same group (Rev. 7:9). So we can assume the sealed 144K evangelize and the Tribulation Saints are their disciples; saved with those who heard the witnesses and the angel above. Does the seal serve to identify them so that the supernatural entities doing God's will are deterred from harming them? That seems to be its primary function. Perhaps they are to be protected until the end. They have a unique role.
In terms of marking the godly, the Image of the Beast is able to determine our thoughts and allegiances. So the Beast doesn't need a mark to identify us. It isn't omniscient, like God, but we have been feeding the powers of the air 25 years of our social media, e-mails, purchases, donations, and social ties. We also have a "new" technology that can read the thoughts of non-verbal humans. If the behavior of the extreme socialist Left is any indicator, we will not be given grace to explain ourselves or to reason. As the intent will be to eliminate Christians, not to suspend their accounts, the response will be swift. I am sure the programming used to calculate our risk to the Beast system already exists and is triggered by our identification (facial scan or fingerprint).
I think all the entities involved see us spiritually and a visible mark matters only to Believers. During Tribulation there will be a lot of betrayal, so I doubt that humans will get the benefit of a mark of the godly.
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Post by leewiggins63 on Nov 24, 2022 19:51:21 GMT -6
Determine our thoughts and allegiances based on our interactions that we've made in the digital age, he's not able to read our thoughts??? Algorithms and AI will tell him most likely who we are and what we'll do. Right?
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