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Post by kjs on Aug 17, 2017 7:34:18 GMT -6
As many here know, I have been upset that several of the bigger name ministries have been dismissive of the entire Revelation 12 sign. One of the biggest critics of this sign is Billy Crone; who just happens to have a new book series and DVD set called the “Final Countdown”. For a bit of money (based on the summaries I have seen) – you too can learn to see we appear to be the final generation before Jesus’ return.
Today, I happen to be reading in Micah … check out this passage
Micah 3:11 Her leaders judge for the money,
her priests teach only when they’re paid,
and her prophets prophesy for cash.
Even so, don’t they all rely on the LORD as they ask,
‘The LORD is among us, is he not?
Nothing bad can possibly happen to us!’
Is it not interesting, that this prophet (Micah) points out some things that God is displeased with – one is that “priest” (think any religious leader) teach only when paid; while another is people giving prophesy for money!
Billy Crone can have any opinion he wants – but I think he might need to be careful – making money off his teachings…….
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Post by socalexile on Aug 17, 2017 8:11:42 GMT -6
They all do this. For $45 you can hear John MacArthur's 5 sermon series on how you too can earn your salvation (that's his logic implies flat-out says). For $75.00 ( on sale!) you can learn how God is going to order the tribulation. But hey, at least they don't have a cable channel! There's a lot of parallels between the sins of Israel and the sins of the institutional church today. Read Matthew 24 and replace the Jewish names with church terms (especially of the one in Rome) and see if it fits. |
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Post by mike on Aug 17, 2017 8:12:10 GMT -6
Certainly could be applied to the situation, although the context (interpretation) is for Israel as verse 12 shows "Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest."
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Post by mike on Aug 17, 2017 8:20:17 GMT -6
They all do this. For $45 you can hear John MacArthur's 5 sermon series on how you too can earn your salvation (that's his logic implies flat-out says). For $75.00 ( on sale!) you can learn how God is going to order the tribulation. But hey, at least they don't have a cable channel! There's a lot of parallels between the sins of Israel and the sins of the institutional church today. Read Matthew 24 and replace the Jewish names with church terms (especially of the one in Rome) and see if it fits. True and I have heard some quote Luke 10:7b " 6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again. 7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house. 8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you: 9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you." In my earlier years I never questioned this when a/my (former) pastor said something like it. Now as I understand better, sure they need to "earn" a paycheck (so to speak) but the context of the chapter was Jesus sending out the 70. Much is taken out of context. I happen to like John MacArthur. He seems very sound to me, most of the time as do many others. I try to always remember that I make many mistakes and we're all still in this earth suit. So a preachers/teachers like him (and there are others) can have areas where they are "off" just like me. $0.02  |
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Post by delo63 on Aug 17, 2017 8:24:43 GMT -6
I think there is a big difference from a pastor who is preaching to a congregation then someone who starts there own teaching and sells them for a profit. Most pastors salaries are very small and hard to live off of. So, I don't think it is wrong for them to get paid, but when you go out of your way to earn a profit, based off your opinions and ideas then it causes a problem.
There are so many ministries out there where pastors try to get famous and make a lot of money for their speaking, Irvin Baxter is an example of this. So, they just try to garner fame and hook people in, just like any other politician or talk show host.
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Post by Natalie on Aug 17, 2017 8:26:59 GMT -6
What irritates me about Billy Crone is that he did that sermon series about 5 years ago or so and put it out for free. I watched it because it was around the same that God woke me up to where we are in history. What changed? Why now charge people for it?
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Post by socalexile on Aug 17, 2017 8:40:17 GMT -6
They all do this. For $45 you can hear John MacArthur's 5 sermon series on how you too can earn your salvation (that's his logic implies flat-out says). For $75.00 ( on sale!) you can learn how God is going to order the tribulation. But hey, at least they don't have a cable channel! There's a lot of parallels between the sins of Israel and the sins of the institutional church today. Read Matthew 24 and replace the Jewish names with church terms (especially of the one in Rome) and see if it fits. True and I have heard some quote Luke 10:7b " 6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again. 7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house. 8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you: 9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you." In my earlier years I never questioned this when a/my (former) pastor said something like it. Now as I understand better, sure they need to "earn" a paycheck (so to speak) but the context of the chapter was Jesus sending out the 70. Much is taken out of context. I happen to like John MacArthur. He seems very sound to me, most of the time as do many others. I try to always remember that I make many mistakes and we're all still in this earth suit. So a preachers/teachers like him (and there are others) can have areas where they are "off" just like me. $0.02 Not to derail the thread, but I have to address this; that man doesn't get the gospel. That right there is works salvation. He got heat for this statement, so he softened the language (which essentially said the same thing) for subsequent editions and blamed it on his publisher. The reality is that all of Romans 3, 4 and 5, Romans 6:23, John 3:14-18, John 5:24, Ephesians 1:13-14 and 2:8-9, Titus 3:5 and many, many more verses teach that salvation is by grace along through faith alone in Christ alone. Furthermore, James 2 is talking about maintaining witness to the lost by works in the service of the Lord, not about salvation (a good essay on this here). John MacArthur does not understand that salvation and discipleship are separate things in the Bible. So what is his faith in then? His works? Because to him, Christ didn't save someone that doesn't act like he think a Christian should. This expands on this difference: Rant over. Back to prophecy. |
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Post by kjs on Aug 17, 2017 8:45:33 GMT -6
Agree, there is nothing wrong with them earning a "PAYCHECK" ....
What I see is wrong is not so much that he is selling another book series and DVD set --- but the topic of the books and dvd -- is that "we are in the last days" or as he says the Final Countdown .... (since I see some portions of this series -- deals with Israel capturing Jerusalem in 67, jubilee year ....)
Much of the same topics and ideas we have discussed here -- in a nutshell both his Final Countdown series and this website -- are saying pretty much the same thing....
EXCEPT he goes on record saying the Rev. 12 sign is FLAT Wrong......
I have to wonder .... if this site is wrong because he fears it is going to affect his sales........
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Post by yardstick on Aug 17, 2017 11:10:27 GMT -6
They all do this. For $45 you can hear John MacArthur's 5 sermon series on how you too can earn your salvation (that's his logic implies flat-out says). For $75.00 ( on sale!) you can learn how God is going to order the tribulation. But hey, at least they don't have a cable channel! There's a lot of parallels between the sins of Israel and the sins of the institutional church today. Read Matthew 24 and replace the Jewish names with church terms (especially of the one in Rome) and see if it fits. From what I have seen, it is because churches now are run as businesses, under the 501c3 guise of non-profits. Contrast this to 508a. |
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Micah 3:11
Aug 17, 2017 22:30:14 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by socalexile on Aug 17, 2017 22:30:14 GMT -6
I think there is a big difference from a pastor who is preaching to a congregation then someone who starts there own teaching and sells them for a profit. Most pastors salaries are very small and hard to live off of. So, I don't think it is wrong for them to get paid, but when you go out of your way to earn a profit, based off your opinions and ideas then it causes a problem. There are so many ministries out there where pastors try to get famous and make a lot of money for their speaking, Irvin Baxter is an example of this. So, they just try to garner fame and hook people in, just like any other politician or talk show host. Johnny Mac clears about $500k a year. Much of it is hidden away. |
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Post by delo63 on Aug 18, 2017 6:23:49 GMT -6
wow that's insane
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Post by Gary on Aug 18, 2017 9:50:47 GMT -6
KJS, sobering Scriptures. I may have to do a post on that.
Socal, I agree with you on MacArthur. Some of his sermons have given me the impression he doesn't understand the Gospel and trusts in himself.
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Post by evenso on Aug 21, 2017 19:11:08 GMT -6
That right there is works salvation. I'm afraid John McArthur is the poster child for Lordship salvation. He sees no difference in salvation and discipleship. |
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 21, 2017 20:09:27 GMT -6
Now just to be clear, I don't think true Lordship salvation is salvation by works. There is more than one form of it--one form at least, could be said to be salvation by works, the true type could be said to be salvation by the Lord.
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Micah 3:11
Aug 21, 2017 23:07:09 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by socalexile on Aug 21, 2017 23:07:09 GMT -6
Now just to be clear, I don't think true Lordship salvation is salvation by works. There is more than one form of it--one form at least, could be said to be salvation by works, the true type could be said to be salvation by the Lord. John MacArthur coined the term Lordship Salvation, so what he says is really what it is, and the re-definitions people try to soften it with are in error. Even guys like Tozer before him, who we now consider Lordship Salvation, put a heavy emphasis on works. Tozer even wrote an essay called "I Call it Heresy" where he rejected salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. |
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