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Post by watchmanjim on Mar 8, 2017 23:28:35 GMT -6
A lot has been written and said about the Seven Churches. I would love to have a lot of discussion about it. To begin with, let's lay out the possible things these 7 churches mean.
1. Each church was an actual church in Asia Minor at the time John wrote Revelation.
2. These churches represent 7 different types of churches that can occur anywhere on earth, at any part of the Church Age.
3. These 7 churches represent 7 chronological phases of the Church Age-- Ephesus being the earliest, Laodicea being the last.
4. The messages to the churches involve messages aimed directly at the individual members of these churches-- whether at that time or any time.
5. Other.
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Post by Gary on Mar 9, 2017 14:07:50 GMT -6
I chose the first two. I once held pretty strongly to the third option (chronological phases), but lately I'm moving away from that. I can't see a very clear chronological parallel, however I think option #2 carries a lot of weight to me.
Having said that, I do think #3 and #4 factors in somewhat for sure.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2017 16:07:38 GMT -6
Hm, not sure about those, I picked #1.
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Post by watchmanjim on Mar 9, 2017 20:09:58 GMT -6
I don't know if I mentioned, this is a more-than-one possible pole, so you can vote for more than one of the options.  |
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Post by watchmanjim on Mar 9, 2017 20:33:53 GMT -6
I do believe in the first three options, however, I personally do put the greatest weight of significance on #2. #1 was significant at the time, much less so to us today.
I believe we have examples of all seven church-types around the earth today. In some parts of the earth, certain types are more likely to be found than others. You will find churches of Smyrna throughout the persecuting world nations, and churches of Pergamum in places where freedom of religion is allowed, but idolatry, false religion, and satanic forces are prevalent. Churches of Ephesus are found often in burned out corners like New England. Thyatira and Sardis churches are found a lot in Europe, you might say,and wherever the Catholic church goes (yes I believe even churches with little truth and few saved are counted among the seven types) you will find them. Philedelphia is hard to find today, but I believe I found one recently in Indiana. And then we have Laodicea-- what I call Laodicea Phase 1 and Laodicea Phase 2.
The reason I believe in the church ages (as a generalization, not a hard-and-fast rule), is primarily because of Philadelphia and Laodicea. Laodicea seems to be in an unusual position-- a church full of rich, smug, uninterested people. In today's USA I see many-- way too many-- of these churches. The old Philedelphian age saints are dying off now. In my viewpoint (which I recognize is not foolproof) I see the Baby Boom generation as the beginning of the Laodicean age in our American churches. Not belonging to that generation myself, I also indict my own generation (X), which has failed to assert itself to take over the leadership from its parents, and has quietly taken a passive stance in life. Then the Millenial Generation came as well-- and the Great Falling Away became appalling. It has hit my own extended family profoundly, especially in the Millenial generation.
Because in America it (in my opinion) comes down to a huge amount of Laodicean churches across the landscape, I am particularly burdened for the message of the Laodicean Church.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 11:08:50 GMT -6
Hm, interesting thought watchmanjim... I went back and picked #2 also since I can pick more than 1. I definitely think the USA church is like Laodicea... so so lukewarm. I think the world is going to see very soon who really believes and whose just faking it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 11:11:08 GMT -6
Hey I'm a "Watcher" now...wooooopie  |
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Post by watchmanjim on Mar 10, 2017 22:14:29 GMT -6
And this I say unto you-- watch.
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Post by watchmanjim on Mar 10, 2017 22:20:37 GMT -6
I hope it's ok here, to paste my video on the subject. Don't worry, I don't have many videos at this point!  |
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Post by delo63 on Jun 29, 2017 11:18:27 GMT -6
I believe the reason these letters were written was to direct the church in general. Each letter was written to a certain type of church and it tackled most of the problems with the churches that our in existence. Ever since the church was formed these problems have always been there, and I believe these letters were written as warnings the church as a whole addressing these specific fall backs. The ages is hard for me to agree fully with because all of those churches still are alive today in some fashion, plus John was not shown a vision about these churches, but was just simply directed to write letters to them. |
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Post by watchmanjim on Jun 29, 2017 11:52:09 GMT -6
Good points, delo. I think you are mostly right, but I see the capacity for prophecy within these 2 chapters even though they are not visions.
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Post by delo63 on Jun 29, 2017 13:23:55 GMT -6
I think it is interesting if you think about the placement of these letters in the front of revelation. It makes me think that these were issued as a warning to the church to prepare for the rapture. Each church besides Philadelphia had something that they needed to do to be right with God. I feel like this is a warning to all churches that were and are alive today, but alas we wont know for sure until the end I guess |
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Post by kjs on Jun 29, 2017 17:27:41 GMT -6
Went with option 5 - other
I think options 1,2,and 4 are true.....
and yes, I know I could have multiple selections.....
see if if you can follow my logic
It originally for each specific church - so option 1 is true
As Chuck Missler pointed out, if they were listed in any other order, they would not align with the obvious church history, so therefore option 2 is valid as well.
They can (and do apply) to the churches of today, so that makes them valid for option 4
But they can also apply at the individual level (i.e. Each reader / hearer) ....
since the instructions almost always ended with let him with ears hear what the Spirit ....
I would have to conclude the primary recipient would be the individual or the hearer .....
which in my mind falls under the other category......
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Post by watchmanjim on Jun 30, 2017 23:15:22 GMT -6
I think it is interesting if you think about the placement of these letters in the front of revelation. It makes me think that these were issued as a warning to the church to prepare for the rapture. Each church besides Philadelphia had something that they needed to do to be right with God. I feel like this is a warning to all churches that were and are alive today, but alas we wont know for sure until the end I guess That's right, except I didn't think anything negative was said about Smyrna, either. |
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Post by kjs on Jul 1, 2017 6:02:22 GMT -6
I think the Smyrna church may also indicate a shadow of what it will be for "believers" during the Tribulation.
No not suggesting Christians will go, through the Tribulation - simply that anyone who becomes a believer during that time will be like this persecuted church.
They will be poor, because they will not take the "Mark" , they will be constantly on the run (or hidden well) because they will be scrape- goateed, that the calamitys are their fault, and some of them will be martyred for their testimony.
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