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Post by Gary on Mar 31, 2017 12:57:45 GMT -6
This article is a discussion of the resurrections described in the Bible. Resurrections are to be distinguished from those where the person is resuscitated in the same mortal body and apparently dies again, such as Lazarus (John 11:1-44) or the son of Zarephath's widow (1 Kings 17:17-24). Beginning with Christ there are many resurrections, but only two types of resurrection - the "first" (good) and "second" (bad). Revelation 20:4-6 and Daniel 12:2 provide for us the distinction. The "first" resurrection is the resurrection of the righteous (blood bought, saved by grace through faith) and happens in the following order: 1. Christ's resurrection 2. The resurrection of some Old Testament saints shortly after Christ's resurrection (Matthew 27:52-53). Many argue that what is described in Matthew 27 is only a select few Old Testament figures and the rest will be resurrected after the tribulation along with the tribulation saints (Daniel 12:2, Revelation 20:4). This resurrection may be a fulfillment of the prefigured "wave offering" of the Feast of First Fruits. 3. Possibly some of those who perished in Noah's flood who Jesus preached to in Hades between His death and resurrection (1 Peter 3:18-19, Ephesians 4:8-9). Ephesians describes the "captives" going with Jesus to Heaven in His ascension. The ancient doctrine, the Harrowing of Hades, is touched on briefly in the Apostles' Creed. 4. The resurrection and rapture of the Church (1 Corinthians 15:51-52, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) 5. The resurrection and gathering of tribulation saints (Revelation 7:9-14, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:29-31) and likely the majority of Old Testament saints (Daniel 12:2). The "second" resurrection is the resurrection of the wicked (rejected God's grace, judged by works) and only consists of those raised at the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:4-6, 20:11-15). One thing left to inference is what happens to those who are born and come to faith during the Millennial Reign of Christ. Do they just simply live forever without ever dying? Do they die and then undergo a resurrection into immortal bodies at some point? These are questions we don't yet have the answers to, but we defer to God's good judgment. We know there will be a final, wicked group of people at the end of the Millennium who yield to Satan's influence (Revelation 20:7-9), so there must be some ability for mortals to accept or reject Christ during His 1,000 year reign. Further analysis of this topic can be found here, along with a discussion of what happens to believers during Christ's millennial reign.
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Post by watchmanjim on Mar 31, 2017 19:43:11 GMT -6
Great post, Gary! I have often wondered about those OT saints in Matthew 27. So many questions, so few answers!
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Post by Gary on Apr 6, 2017 8:26:11 GMT -6
I used to think that the Matthew 27 resurrection included all of the OT saints and was the resurrection partially prophesied in Daniel 12, but I discovered that I didn't have the scholarly position. There are some textual indicators that show that Matt. 27 was a more specific group.
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Post by watchmanjim on Apr 6, 2017 9:18:01 GMT -6
Yes. Until recently, I had thought these OT saints had arisen and appeared unto many, and then returned to their graves. (their bodies, anyway). I figured the bodies had to wait there for the resurrection when the church age saints will be resurrected.
Now, I'm not sure one way or the other.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 9:34:35 GMT -6
I can go either way on this. One one hand Jesus said somewhere that the least in the kingdom of heaven would be greater than John the Baptist, so maybe saints from before Christ do have to wait. On the other hand maybe once Jesus rose from the dead they all could come into heaven and that is what Matthew 27 describes. I think there are some other verses that hint at that, but I could be wrong.
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Post by watchmanjim on Apr 17, 2017 12:14:19 GMT -6
Well one thing's for sure-- if the people resurrected at that time went on to heaven in their glorified bodies, then we should not be able to find their bones today. In any of the celebrated tombs where all the Old Testament people are supposed to be. Particularly the ones known to be in the faith. So--- do we find these, or do we not?
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Post by rt on Apr 24, 2017 8:59:08 GMT -6
Gary you point out that there are two (kinds of) resurrection, which I totally agree with. I would say that we don't have to guess what happens to those who come to faith during the millennium. The scripture gives us the answer.
First of all we know that there will be those who will come to faith during the millennium who will die, they will live as mortals and some will die as mortals.
Many look at this passage and claim that it shows that the righteous won't die during the millennial kingdom. But that is not at all what the passage says. It tells us that those who die at the age of one hundred will be considered youth, so we know that there will be those who die, these are not considered accursed, rather it is those who die before the age of 100 who are thought of in that way. It also tells us that infant mortality will be a thing of the past, and old men will live out there days presumably to eventually die.
Also you will notice that in the Revelation when it talks about the dead being raised, that death and Hades give up their dead and the "sea" also gives up its dead:
Most, if not all commentaries look at this "sea" as an earthly physical body of water. This makes no sense at all to me. Death and Hades are physical places that serve as repositories for the souls of the dead, they however, exist in the spiritual realm. Why should we interpret the "sea" as being an earthly repository for wicked souls. Where in any place of scripture do we find support for such an idea? However there is support for a "sea" existing in the spiritual realm. John mentions it two other times in the revelation.
And twice in the Revelation we see that those righteous who are resurrected appear standing on this "sea": as above in revelation 15 and also here: you will note where these multitudes stand, before the throne, which is where the sea of glass is located:
Now since we also know from scripture that the heavenly Tabernacle serves as the pattern for the earthly tabernacle/temple, so we should find something there that represents this heavenly "sea"
Notice what the purpose of the "sea" was: for the priests to wash in. It was a means to sanctify themselves before entering into the temple in service to God.
Now I cannot be dogmatic here, but I would suggest that the "crystal sea" that John points out in the Revelation serves as a repository for the souls of the righteous dead. That within it resides paradise where the souls of the righteous go upon their death, there they await their resurrection, when they undergo a final sanctification or baptism of sorts and they receive a regenerated immortal glorified body. The "sea" is within a level of the spiritual heavenly place that lies under the throne of God, it's ceiling so to speak, serves as the floor in the heavenly holy place. Which is where the righteous stand upon their resurrection into the heavenly tabernacle. The altar of incense that John also references serves as a kind of loud speaker for those souls who reside there.
All this to show that those who die during the millennium will be raised as a part of the first resurrection- unto everlasting life, from the crystal "sea", which gives up its dead. There is nothing there that would contradict this view. In fact Rev 20 tells us that the book of life is opened and if anyone's name was not found in it they were cast into the lake of fire, along with death and Hades, this would not exclude the idea that righteous are also raised at that time. Interestingly the "sea" is not thrown into the lake of fire, it merely ceases to exist.
"The first things are passed away", there is no longer any need for a repository for the souls of the righteous because there will no longer be any death and the tabernacle of God will reside among men.
Respectfully submitted, RT
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Post by whatif on Apr 24, 2017 10:50:06 GMT -6
Welcome to the forum, rt! I love your theory about the sea! I've been puzzled for a very long time over the Revelation 21:1 passage that says there will no longer be any sea, as I believe that the Lord loves His beautiful water creatures as much as He loves His beautiful land creatures. Surely He would want some type of vast water body to let His whales swim around in! So I just figured He might have huge lakes and deep rivers in the New World to keep His creatures in--and I don't doubt that He will indeed provide these things in that beautiful, perfect world. But you've presented a very good theory that, to my mind, solves the puzzle. Thank you for posting it!
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Post by watchmanjim on Apr 24, 2017 11:10:40 GMT -6
Rats, I had a lengthy reply and lost it to a temporary internet glitch. Maybe God didn't want me to post it! But I do find your explanations helpful and fascinating, RT. If you are right about the sea, that makes a lot of sense. It also provides and explanation to my quandry of the three flocks in the Behold, it was Leah! passage. The fourth flock, Millennial Saints, would, in your understanding, not have their judgment, reward, or glorification until the Great White Throne Judgment, where they, righteous ones, would be judged alongside the dead of all ages of the earth--also making more sense of why the Book of Life would have to be checked for each name. :-) '
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Post by Gary on Apr 24, 2017 14:00:43 GMT -6
Very interesting theory, RT. I also like the idea because I'm personally a really big fan of the ocean - hopefully there will be oceans in the new heavens and earth.
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Post by BrazenLaver on Apr 27, 2017 9:16:07 GMT -6
The crystal sea...awesome! I love how its also mentioned in the passage were I take my online name...BrazenLaver! I Kings 7:38-39 Then made he ten lavers of brass: one laver contained forty baths: and every laver was four cubits: and upon every one of the ten bases one laver. And he put five bases on the right side of the house, and five on the left side of the house: and he set the sea on the right side of the house eastward over against the south. Do you guys "sea" what I mean?
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Post by Gary on Apr 27, 2017 9:55:38 GMT -6
As in Heaven so on earth. I love that first picture of the Crystal Sea - I'm holding out hope to visiting sometime this year (:
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Post by BrazenLaver on Apr 27, 2017 10:08:21 GMT -6
Amen! Even so come Lord Jesus!
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