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Post by cwood85 on Jun 6, 2019 10:46:33 GMT -6
Just adding some relevant details to this. Especially in regards to how there is a lot of emphasis on tribulation by Jesus. The days were cut short isn’t referring to the literal day loosing hours, it means the time period of this tribulation was shortened because of the violence and severity of it. When the Jews fully rebelled again the romans the than the romans set up their pagan statues in the temple and took it over, there was bloodshed like the Jews had never seen before. It is said through historical research that over a million Jews were crucified. Not just killed but crucified! There is believed to have been around 2 million altogether that were killed in the most horrific ways. The Romans completely and violently trampled the Jews to death to make a very bold statement of their might. That is why the last of Jews who were still in the city stood on the ramp leading to the temple killed themselves. It was better to do it by their own hand than endure what the Romans were going to do to them. The Romans came during the rebellion by the Jews and encamped Jerusalem. Those in the city had no way of escaping. This would explain why Jesus said if you are on the rooftop do not go down to get your things. Leave because there will be no time! Because if someone second guessed just fleeing and trying to get away, they would lose their life or be subjected to the barbaric things the Romans did during that time period. Just commenting as something to think about in regards to what was happening during that time period.
Ok, getting tired of saying the same thing over and over again.
What happen to the Jews under Hitler -- was more tragic and tribulation-list than what happen under Roman.... More people were involved, More deaths recorded .... and on and on about MORE THAN....
Jesus said "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be."
Means what-ever happens during this "Final Week" -- is worst then anything that ever happen or will ever happen......
Meaning -- Just as Hitler was worst than Romans put down ..... some point in time something even worst than Hitler will fall on them.....
While I can see how "And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short." could possibly be interpreted to mean a shorten time duration... I do not think it means that ... the phrase days cut short appears to mean just that a shorten day.....
At any rate -- Jesus' words strongly indicate the "Happening" {The Abomination of Desolation} is Still to Come....
If your getting tired of it than stop commenting. Seriously. Really don’t care for the attitude and shortness in your responses sometimes. This isn’t a I am right and you are wrong sort of conversation, at least for me it isn’t. Putting information out like I did isn’t me saying this is right over you and your thought process or knowledge on the subject. It’s laying out details and information to think on and go over the scriptures with everyone here. If someone responds with a different opinion or information it does not offend me like it seems to do with you. I look into it, read scriptures, historical information and think about it. Maybe you should look at why opposing or different views and ideas are so offensive to you on this topic.
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Post by cwood85 on Jun 5, 2019 16:36:34 GMT -6
Since the Sign of 9/23 I believe we need to be on guard even more that we NOT look to SEE something that isn't going to be there in the first place. This is core point I have come to hold in the defense of the 70th week IS fulfilled. I can not get entangled in this 70th week theology as it MAY JUST AS WELL been fulfilled, and scripture seems to point to a full complete, uninterrupted 490 period. We disagree with each other about the 70 Weeks .... and I have tried everything I can to show you were I believe your logic is off.
But fine -- Let us say for a moment (a moment only) that the 490 time period has come and gone .......
How do you resolve Jesus' words in Matthew 24? {Matthew 24: 15-31}
21 for then there will be great oppression, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be. 22 Unless those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved. But for the sake of the chosen ones, those days will be shortened.
Please reveal exactly when and where the "Days were shorten",
-- please reveal where the "great tribulation has taken place" -- Matt 24:21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. {NKJV}
abomination of desolation -- spoken of BY DANIEL --- "he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”
Do You SEE?
Your claiming the 70th week is over and done with ...........
Yet the Great Tribulation spoken of by Jesus and the shortening of Days -- Also spoken by Jesus Have NOT Occurred ......
Yet -- Jesus says these to passages are LINKED Daniel 9:27 and Matthew 24 15:32 ....................
Just adding some relevant details to this. Especially in regards to how there is a lot of emphasis on tribulation by Jesus. The days were cut short isn’t referring to the literal day loosing hours, it means the time period of this tribulation was shortened because of the violence and severity of it. When the Jews fully rebelled again the romans the than the romans set up their pagan statues in the temple and took it over, there was bloodshed like the Jews had never seen before. It is said through historical research that over a million Jews were crucified. Not just killed but crucified! There is believed to have been around 2 million altogether that were killed in the most horrific ways. The Romans completely and violently trampled the Jews to death to make a very bold statement of their might. That is why the last of Jews who were still in the city stood on the ramp leading to the temple killed themselves. It was better to do it by their own hand than endure what the Romans were going to do to them. The Romans came during the rebellion by the Jews and encamped Jerusalem. Those in the city had no way of escaping. This would explain why Jesus said if you are on the rooftop do not go down to get your things. Leave because there will be no time! Because if someone second guessed just fleeing and trying to get away, they would lose their life or be subjected to the barbaric things the Romans did during that time period. Just commenting as something to think about in regards to what was happening during that time period.
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Post by cwood85 on Jun 4, 2019 12:50:41 GMT -6
I had been reading last week when a few verses really stuck out to me, specifically one. I often contemplate how our loving Father would allow the enemy of our souls to do harm to us. Many including myself also struggle with performance based behavior. If I don't sin God loves me more, when I do He draws back from me. We all sin DAILY...Quite often He permits trials ( 1 Peter 4:12-14) it is for our own benefit when things seem like they are falling apart our Father has a greater plan that we have yet to understand. Some may say "what about Job" Mike? I'm fine with that and open to dialogue on this but wanted to encourage someone today who may need to hear this verse and the others God has impressed on me the last week or two. If you are in condemnation over something know that it is not unto death. Confess and ask for forgiveness! 1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. Here is what I wanted to share but the above also really jumped out at me and felt the need to express we are forgiven! 18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 19 [And] we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. 20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is TRUE, and we are in him that is TRUE, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the TRUE God, and eternal life.
That wicked one toucheth him not - Hmmm isnt that interesting that we who are born of God are not touched by the wicked one. Then this morning I was reading Isaiah 59 and wondering how to reconcile "2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear." and as I kept reading I began to better understand who this was addressing. Not those who desire righteousness but those who do not regard the ways of the Lord and the Holy Spirit showed me this verse "19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." Wait What
As I was driving into work meditating on this more verses began to come to mind Luke 22:31 "Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith will not fail."
Like Job, Satan asked but we have a high priest who can relate to us and who intercedes for us? FOR ME!? No way not me, I ain't worthy of that! Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin. Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.I hope this encourages & touches someone. Well anywho.... Lets get back to the original topic But FIRST something that was not brought up during the Satan bound things was this verse by Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:5- "I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
^^^^^That is speaking of Satan after Christ death for the destruction of ones fleshly desires by Satan. Why? So his spirit will be saved in the day of the Lord! If Satan was fully bound like stated in Revelation and locked in the Abyss how could he have any affect on the one being spoken of in this passage? For anyone unfamiliar, this passage is speaking of someone who was being very promiscuous in the church. Paul was stating for this individuals own good, his fleshly nature needed to be destroyed and by Satan....It does not say how that was done and probably for good reason In regards to the Satan/Sin being the same, that was brought up with no information or research to back it up. If one thinks Satan was the originator of or caused the first sin, than yes I could see this possibly being viewed in that way. Not how I view it, but I can see in a very round about way the possibility. It is related to these passages that Satan is thought to be the originator of sin- 12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, eson of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
13 You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly <<<< Reflecting this individuals pride in the far reaches of the north;3
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
15 But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit. 16 Those who see you will stare at you and ponder over you: ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, 17 who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?’ 18 All the kings of the nations lie in glory, each in his own tomb;4 19 but you are cast out, away from your grave,
like a loathed branch,
clothed with the slain, those pierced by the sword, who go down to the stones of the pit, like a dead body trampled underfoot. 20 You will not be joined with them in burial, because you have destroyed your land, you have slain your people. “May the offspring of evildoers nevermore be named! 21 Prepare slaughter for his sons
because of the guilt of their fathers,
lest they rise and possess the earth,
and fill the face of the world with cities.” 22 “I will rise up against them,” declares the Lord of hosts, “and will cut off from Babylon name and remnant, descendants and posterity,” declares the Lord. 23 “And I will make it a possession of the hedgehog,5 and pools of water, and I will sweep it with the broom of destruction,” declares the Lord of hosts. >>>>>>To me this passage is speaking of Nebuchadnezzar and not Satan.... because in Daniel 4 we see this scenario:
10Now [these were] the visions in my mind [as I lay] on my bed: I was looking, and behold, [there was] a tree in the midst of the earth and its height [was] great. 11The tree grew large and became strong And its height reached to the sky, And it [was] visible to the end of the whole earth.
12Its foliage [was] beautiful and its fruit abundant, And in it [was] food for all. The beasts of the field found shade under it, And the birds of the sky dwelt in its branches, And all living creatures fed themselves from it.
13I was looking in the visions in my mind [as I lay] on my bed, and behold, an [angelic] watcher, a holy one, descended from heaven. 14He shouted out and spoke as follows: "Chop down the tree and cut off its branches, Strip off its foliage and scatter its fruit; Let the beasts flee from under it And the birds from its branches.
15"Yet leave the stump with its roots in the ground, But with a band of iron and bronze [around it] In the new grass of the field; And let him be drenched with the dew of heaven, And let him share with the beasts in the grass of the earth. 16"Let his mind be changed from [that of] a man And let a beast's mind be given to him, And let seven periods of time pass over him. 17"This sentence is by the decree of the [angelic] watchers And the decision is a command of the holy ones, In order that the living may know That the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind, And bestows it on whom He wishes And sets over it the lowliest of men." 18This is the dream [which] I, King Nebuchadnezzar, have seen. Now you, Belteshazzar, tell [me] its interpretation, inasmuch as none of the wise men of my kingdom is able to make known to me the interpretation; but you are able, for a spirit of the holy gods is in you.' >>>>>>>>>Now lets look at another passage in Ezekiel used as a reference describing Satan being the originator of sin & compare to what we read in Daniel 4 above:1And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 2“Son of man, tell the ruler of Tyre that this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘ Your heart is proud,
and you have said,
“I am a god;
I sit in the seat of gods
in the heart of the sea.”
Yet you are a man and not a god,
though you have regarded your heart as that of a god. 3Behold, you are wiser than Daniel; no secret is hidden from you!..... ....6Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘Because you regard your heart
as the heart of a god,
7behold, I will bring foreigners against you,
the most ruthless of nations......11Again the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 12“Son of man, take up a lament for the king of Tyre and tell him that this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13You were in Eden,
the garden of God. (pride & vanity was present at the fall of man and was the driving force behind accepting the forbidden fruit. To be like God sealed the deal to disobedience.) Every kind of precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz, and diamond,
beryl, onyx, and jasper,
sapphire,a turquoise, and emerald.
Your mountings and settings were crafted in gold,
prepared on the day of your creation.
14You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for I had ordained you.
You were on the holy mountain of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15From the day you were created
you were blameless in your ways
until wickedness was found in you. 16By the vastness of your trade, (The size of his kingdom) you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace
from the mountain of God, (The mountain of God is a kingdom. God appoints all rulers and leaders and gives this right. We know mountains represent kingdoms because this is clarified in Revelation)
and I banished you, O guardian cherub,..... from among the fiery stones. 17Your heart grew proud of your beauty;
you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor;
so I cast you to the earth;
I made you a spectacle before kings. >>>>>So what was King Nebuchadnezzar doing when he turned into a beast for 7 years? 28"All [this] happened to Nebuchadnezzar the king. 29"Twelve months later he was walking on the [roof of] the royal palace of Babylon. 30"The king reflected and said, 'Is this not Babylon the great, which I myself have built as a royal residence by the might of my power and for the glory of my majesty?' 31"While the word [was] in the king's mouth, a voice came from heaven, [saying], 'King Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is declared: sovereignty has been removed from you, 32and you will be driven away from mankind, and your dwelling place [will be] with the beasts of the field.... Satan is not sin, Satan caused and played a role in the responsibility of sin being committed in the garden. I digress however because either way is viewed and argued on as Satan being the first to sin or mankind...
Now to the wonderfulness that mike posted Sorry that first part was a lot longer than I had planned on it being. Sin has been atoned for, forgotten, removed, however we view it, it is forgiven and washed clean. That is something we can have true faith in, that sin was nailed to the cross <3
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Post by cwood85 on Jun 4, 2019 8:33:55 GMT -6
Noted... I really wish if there are different ideas and viewpoints being presented, that people would be civil about presenting them!
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Post by cwood85 on Jun 4, 2019 8:20:11 GMT -6
bowman going to take a different viewpoint/angle at what you are saying here. Although Venge points out the details of rule number one, I have always had difficulty following rules my entire life lol. Just ask my poor mother 😅 Permission to pick bowman brain please? At least for my part, it will be civil. Bowman no trolling, attitude, or accusations, k? While I do not agree with the thousand year reign happening now, I would like to keep this more focused on the Satan bound topic. In the Bible, the abyss is a place where there is separation and no freedom, hence bound with chains. I believe the death of Christ on the cross atoned the entire world of sin and forever. He is the eternal gospel, truly good news, and his name means God is salvation and salvation is God. On the cross Christ fulfilled the law we could not, the law that is referred to as being a death sentence because no one other than Christ could stick to it and that was the point. It is also mentioned in the NT that those who were basically ignorant of the law are not held liable to the law. We all are subject to experience death because of sin however. As in Adam all die, as in Christ all live. Pretty straightforward. I am on my phone and will reference verses later if needed or desired, because trying to do that on a phone is next to torture. Since Satan tempts us to sin, but sin is forgiven this would in an essence render him powerless? Yes there is still sin in the world clearly and it seems to be getting worse and worse every day. You say it is his demons having this influence. I do believe in the influence of evil spirits and spiritual attacks. But in Revelation it says he accuses us night and day to God and we see what he is accusing us of very clearly in the book of Job. Do we seek God even after the worst of the worst happening to us? Or do we question Him to take what is broken and lost and fix it? For clarifications sake, I do not believe in a hell of eternal torment or annihilation. I believe also as the book of Job shows at the end, that God restores his creation as he restored all that Job had lost. I also believe this is a type of example of what was lost due to sin and what was gained when sin was washed away. Why do I think this? To be frank, because we are all idiots lol. We had ONE rule in the beginning and we blew it, fully aware of the consequences. In all seriousness I do not see how God would knowing we would fail, give us the option to declare our eternal destiny. To me this is like telling a three year old to not cross the road and then turn around and stop paying attention figuring they got it right? This is why I have stated previously that I do not believe Satan harbors or gains souls because all souls belong to God. I also believe when the Bible refers to ALL, that it really means all, not kinda all or sorta/maybe could be all if everything works out right. So in an essence, since our sins have been forgiven, Satan is basically wasting his time? Along with his minions as well? Another way to look at this is to see that we are just as capable as evil ourselves without Satan hovering over our shoulders giving us the final push. Now this begs the question, since sin has been as John the Baptist states have been taken away, are we just truly not understanding and realizing that? I mean having trust in that? Or are will still trying to ensure our salvation and then in worshipping ourselves and false idols (money, lust, pride, how we appear to others, religion, things of this world, drugs and alcohol, sports and on and on) still stuck? Usually the harder we try to do everything ourselves, it doesn’t exactly turn out the best (in my own experience anyways). We are told where sin abounds, grace abounds. Since there is still sin occurring, God continuously has grace towards us. As Mike pointed out above, there is nothing we can do to make him love us more. NOTE: This is all thinking out loud and laying out my thoughts on what Bowman is saying. I am not stating this as fact or all of it has held beliefs. What I do believe is clarified. Also apologizing for any typos from doing this on my phone.
Good thoughts...thanks for putting them down...
Satan has many many names in scripture.
One epithet for Satan is 'The Sin'...and, as you already declared, he has been taken away!
Thus..when was Sin taken away?
That's correct, at The Cross.
So...you are correct when you state that most people are not truly grasping this simple event.
Here's a power passage that boldly declares how The Second Person of The Trinity manifested in OT times - just as He did in NT times - with the final time being dedicated to casting 'The Sin' (Satan) into the abyss...
Heb 9.26 since He must often have suffered from the foundation of the world. But now once for all, at the completion of the ages, He has been manifested for putting away of The Sin(Satan), through the sacrifice of Himself.
bowmanI need a little help with what I have highlighted above as in reference material or research links/sites please. In the interlinears from the information that I know of or have access to, the word sin in Hebrews 9:26 is not the same or even derived from Satan. I do not see a The Sin being used here. By no means am I an expert, but this is the word used in that sentence: 266 /hamartía ("sin, forfeiture because missing the mark") is the brand of sin that emphasizes its self-originated (self-empowered) nature – i.e. it is not originated or empowered by God (i.e. not of faith, His inworked persuasion. Part of speech: Noun, Feminine <<<< So we see sin here is a noun, a thing or something that exist however it is not a proper noun so it is not a name or someone.This word for sin in the Greek is derived from Cognate: 264 hamartánō (from 1 /A "not" and 3313 /méros, "a part, share") – properly, having no share in; to sin, which always brings forfeiture – i.e. eternal loss due to missing God's mark. Part of speech: verb, Neuter. <<<<< A verb which is something that is happening or occuring and neuter because it happens or is done by anyone. If you have resources to back up your statement of "its in the Greek." than please show them. Anyone here would like to look into these things rather than get one sentence statements stating as so....
I have read that you believe Satan committed the original sin in heaven and fell from heaven because of this. Are you referencing to the passage in Ezekiel regarding the prince of Tyre?
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Post by cwood85 on Jun 3, 2019 17:49:57 GMT -6
I had been reading last week when a few verses really stuck out to me, specifically one. I often contemplate how our loving Father would allow the enemy of our souls to do harm to us. Many including myself also struggle with performance based behavior. If I don't sin God loves me more, when I do He draws back from me. We all sin DAILY...Quite often He permits trials ( 1 Peter 4:12-14) it is for our own benefit when things seem like they are falling apart our Father has a greater plan that we have yet to understand. Some may say "what about Job" Mike? I'm fine with that and open to dialogue on this but wanted to encourage someone today who may need to hear this verse and the others God has impressed on me the last week or two. If you are in condemnation over something know that it is not unto death. Confess and ask for forgiveness! 1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. Here is what I wanted to share but the above also really jumped out at me and felt the need to express we are forgiven! 18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. 19 [And] we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. 20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is TRUE, and we are in him that is TRUE, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the TRUE God, and eternal life.
That wicked one toucheth him not - Hmmm isnt that interesting that we who are born of God are not touched by the wicked one. Then this morning I was reading Isaiah 59 and wondering how to reconcile "2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear." and as I kept reading I began to better understand who this was addressing. Not those who desire righteousness but those who do not regard the ways of the Lord and the Holy Spirit showed me this verse "19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him." Wait What
As I was driving into work meditating on this more verses began to come to mind Luke 22:31 "Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, Simon, that your faith will not fail."Like Job, Satan asked but we have a high priest who can relate to us and who intercedes for us? FOR ME!? No way not me, I ain't worthy of that! Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin. Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.I hope this encourages & touches someone. Indeed....be thankful that the wicked one has been bound and locked in the Abyss by our God and Savior Jesus Christ, at The Cross... bowman going to take a different viewpoint/angle at what you are saying here. Although Venge points out the details of rule number one, I have always had difficulty following rules my entire life lol. Just ask my poor mother 😅 Permission to pick bowman brain please? At least for my part, it will be civil. Bowman no trolling, attitude, or accusations, k? While I do not agree with the thousand year reign happening now, I would like to keep this more focused on the Satan bound topic. In the Bible, the abyss is a place where there is separation and no freedom, hence bound with chains. I believe the death of Christ on the cross atoned the entire world of sin and forever. He is the eternal gospel, truly good news, and his name means God is salvation and salvation is God. On the cross Christ fulfilled the law we could not, the law that is referred to as being a death sentence because no one other than Christ could stick to it and that was the point. It is also mentioned in the NT that those who were basically ignorant of the law are not held liable to the law. We all are subject to experience death because of sin however. As in Adam all die, as in Christ all live. Pretty straightforward. I am on my phone and will reference verses later if needed or desired, because trying to do that on a phone is next to torture. Since Satan tempts us to sin, but sin is forgiven this would in an essence render him powerless? Yes there is still sin in the world clearly and it seems to be getting worse and worse every day. You say it is his demons having this influence. I do believe in the influence of evil spirits and spiritual attacks. But in Revelation it says he accuses us night and day to God and we see what he is accusing us of very clearly in the book of Job. Do we seek God even after the worst of the worst happening to us? Or do we question Him to take what is broken and lost and fix it? For clarifications sake, I do not believe in a hell of eternal torment or annihilation. I believe also as the book of Job shows at the end, that God restores his creation as he restored all that Job had lost. I also believe this is a type of example of what was lost due to sin and what was gained when sin was washed away. Why do I think this? To be frank, because we are all idiots lol. We had ONE rule in the beginning and we blew it, fully aware of the consequences. In all seriousness I do not see how God would knowing we would fail, give us the option to declare our eternal destiny. To me this is like telling a three year old to not cross the road and then turn around and stop paying attention figuring they got it right? This is why I have stated previously that I do not believe Satan harbors or gains souls because all souls belong to God. I also believe when the Bible refers to ALL, that it really means all, not kinda all or sorta/maybe could be all if everything works out right. So in an essence, since our sins have been forgiven, Satan is basically wasting his time? Along with his minions as well? Another way to look at this is to see that we are just as capable as evil ourselves without Satan hovering over our shoulders giving us the final push. Now this begs the question, since sin has been as John the Baptist states have been taken away, are we just truly not understanding and realizing that? I mean having trust in that? Or are will still trying to ensure our salvation and then in worshipping ourselves and false idols (money, lust, pride, how we appear to others, religion, things of this world, drugs and alcohol, sports and on and on) still stuck? Usually the harder we try to do everything ourselves, it doesn’t exactly turn out the best (in my own experience anyways). We are told where sin abounds, grace abounds. Since there is still sin occurring, God continuously has grace towards us. As Mike pointed out above, there is nothing we can do to make him love us more. NOTE: This is all thinking out loud and laying out my thoughts on what Bowman is saying. I am not stating this as fact or all of it has held beliefs. What I do believe is clarified. Also apologizing for any typos from doing this on my phone.
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Post by cwood85 on Jun 2, 2019 8:49:12 GMT -6
Cwood85 You said: I do agree Satan is no longer ruler of this world because of Jesus sacrifice and resurrection, I am trying to understand the “why” in that sentence outside of the death. If Satan no longer ruled, why is there deceiving today? If Satan no longer ruled, what is he doing? The scroll given to Christ is a form of deed correct? He opens the deed to see what he inherits. In the deed, things must happen because his father laid out rules to inherit it. But it’s not till the 7th trumpet the kingdoms of earth are his and he reigns. If Christ isn’t reigning yet because that trumpet has not sound, wouldn’t the prince of power of the air still be in charge? We are talking earth, not heaven. Christ rules heaven with God at his right side, but not earth yet. Satan removed from heaven but not earth yet. Secondly, Satan is sealed one time and we know that has not happened. And He falls one time. Satan was ruler of this world from the beginning when Eve and Adam followed his words over Gods on eating the fruit. The moment that happened, the world for a time was his. Their pride and vanity let them be blinded over what God had told them about the tree. While Satan didn’t do the original sin himself in the garden, he played a major role in it and has a responsibility for it. He was responsible for their death and death to all of us. They followed Satan over God and were removed from the presence of God, the garden. The judgement of the world happened at the cross. Satan entered Judas so he would fully betray Jesus and turned him in to be killed, which worked. All part of the plan however as we now know. I really believe Satan thought Jesus death was it and that he had no power over death. Satan took Jesus and showed him all of the world and offered it to him. The many many layers of this offer was the BIGGEST thing he could tempt Jesus with. The catch however, was that even Satan was deceived into thinking the world was his because of sin and death. He was offering Jesus us and to be with us. What Satan didn't see or maybe even fully understand was the resurrection which shattered his rule of this world. This is why the gospel was preached below, on, and above the earth. Death was defeated and done. Since death was our penalty for sin, there was no longer the debt of sin. And that is what was preached below, on, and above the world, the good news, God is salvation, death is defeated and sin has been cleansed. “ Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,” Hebrew 2:14 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Satan ruled for a time because of sin and death. Both where defeated 2000 years ago. Yes Satan is still here and he began to go after people with a vengeance shortly after Jesus was crucified and resurrected. So why is their still deception, sin abound, and clearly Satans influence on the world? Because everything is to happen in its own time. Because God is allowing this for a time. Because we still fall into temptations and many do not see Jesus for what he is. Life, salvation and love. For many he is a way out of hell, or a way to prove ones religious stance, a reason to murder and torture for disbelief in Jesus or the true way to obtain salvation. Heresy used to be a death sentence. But look at the things that were considered heresy! Not paying church tax, or trying to read the Bible, believing no salvation was found in the church but only through God. He is used as a reason to refuse service and business to people to uphold their beliefs. He is preached to the world as the one who sends people to hell and even visits hell to rub in the faces of those being tormented all’s they simply had to do was believe.... children were and are told if they didn’t believe in they would burn in Hell. What rubbish and shame. I remember attending church camps and this being told to us. Do or die. Believe or burn. That’s blackmail!! As a little girl at age 11 everything inside me told me that wasn’t right and it wasn’t good. What they were doing and telling us to do was wrong! Forcing our hand, making Gods salvation an unbearable burden if we didn’t comply. Shame on them and all preachers who feel they need to use these sort of tactics. That in itself is a huge deception. In this age, it is humanity who still needs many things worked out. We still follow ourselves more than anything.
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Post by cwood85 on Jun 1, 2019 20:29:37 GMT -6
fitzlol not everyone on here will get that 🤣 Gotta have a little fun in the midst of all of this!
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Post by cwood85 on Jun 1, 2019 20:27:26 GMT -6
I don't read the Koran, Anti-Christ material. As I stated before, angels are also men. I am sorry you cannot see any other way.
If you haven't studied it, then how would you know?
The Koran was written by early Arab Christians.
And this is where I tap out. A book written about a man who raped little girls as being a prophet and saw an angel of light is being recommended as good reading materials. Pass. Now who else is referred to as being an angel of light....💡🤨
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Post by cwood85 on Jun 1, 2019 18:43:13 GMT -6
Stop giving Satan and demonic spirits credit and power they do not harbor or can will. Can they deceive, yes you bet, can they wreak havoc in our lives through spiritual attacks in many forms, yep. But we are the ultimate factor in whether or not we give into the temptation. Our pride blinds and fools us into thinking we can get away or be in charge of the consequences of our choices.
You have that backwards.
If you think that Satan is still roaming free today, then you deny what Christ did for you at The Cross, and you deny scripture. <<<< This is a really crappy thing to say to anyone. God opens our eyes to understanding his Word. No one has this perfect. The importance thing is to seek God and His character and pray the Holy Spirit guides us in truth and love.
You give undo credit to Satan, and raise him to a status that he most certainly does not deserve, nor have today...be thankful Satan is, himself, utterly impotent, and locked in his abyss....
I know the mods on here are trying to be polite and fair with how conversations are being handled in post and threads. They have a pretty thankless responsibility sometimes on here and for the most part really try not to seem like they are ruling this forum, but are a part of it like everyone else. However, I am not a mod and would like to call you out on your unnecessary arrogance and accusations in your post and responses. It’s really unfortunate and it is putting up a big blockage to anything that you are trying to present (or prove and accuse as it seems the case is) rather than present an opinion or topic for discussion. Pretty sure I stated above Satan is given more power and credit by many either in theology or teaching in churches than what is actually stated. Not sure how I could make that anymore clear? For clarifications sake, what do you think Satans purpose is? What is his role with humanity and God? Who is Satan to you?
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Post by cwood85 on Jun 1, 2019 18:23:36 GMT -6
I am not so sure you quiet know what Jesus did on the cross. Satan was not the god of this world, but was the ruler as Jesus says with his own mouth. There is a gross misunderstanding that this is happening between God, Satan and demons: That^^^^ is not happening. Jesus and Satan are not and have never been in “combat” with one another over us. John the Baptist made it crystal clear what Jesus was and did accomplish both on the cross and at his resurrection. ”Behold the lamb of God who takes away the SIN of the world!” <<<<<< I don’t see any mention of Satan in there, do you? Let’s see more of what Jesus accomplished for the world and what we should be thankful for. Jesus/Yeshua means God is Salvation. That does not or imply at all God saved our souls from the devil. That means God is our salvation, he is our life, he is everything. He is the only way to not be forever lost to death. What are the wages of sin? Torture by Satan and his demons? Satan getting to keep a tally of how many souls his has compared to God? Bologna. “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”The wages of sin is Satan and doom to him? No, that’s not what is said there either. It’s implied by that is the case by many, but not all. “For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.”
“For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.”
“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.”
^^^^^^Don’t see anything in that verse about Satan blocking us or harboring our souls because of sin. I see all have sinned because of Adam, and because one man who was perfect and loves us so much, died the most horrific death to cleanse us of sin. He gave us life by God resurrecting him. The first fruit from death to life. To prove death has no power over God, sin has not power over God and that God is salvation 💗 The death on the cross didn’t bind Satan so he could no longer block or prevent us from coming to Christ, it fulfilled the law that we could not, nailed it to the cross so God can be with us. This was all part of the plan and will of God. The lamb who was slain before the foundation of the world to wash creation of sin. That is the beautiful simplicity of this and why it is referenced as being so easy a child can understand. God simply wants us. He loves his creation and will one day be all in all. Satan is not blocking or preventing any of plan or will of God and above all, has no say or power to block that from happening. “For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD." <<<<< This is NOT an act of force, but an act of acceptance and worship. Stop giving Satan and demonic spirits credit and power they do not harbor or can will. Can they deceive, yes you bet, can they wreak havoc in our lives through spiritual attacks in many forms, yep. But we are the ultimate factor in whether or not we give into the temptation. Our pride blinds and fools us into thinking we can get away or be in charge of the consequences of our choices. The gospel is the good news! It is not an ultimatum of do or die or a ticket out of the hellbound express! The good news is God takes the responsibility for our salvation. That is what we should be thankful for! We are not responsible enough to do this for ourselves and that was the whole purpose of the law, to prove that. He is a good father and a good and loving father never gives up on his children. Our biggest battle is with ourselves in truly understanding and resting in this. We are the 1 that he leaves the 99 to rescue, the hidden treasure in the field that he sold everything for. Christ isn’t a ticket we hold in our hand to wave around for everyone to see or a blockage that finally worked for Satan so he cannot collect any more souls. He is life, love and all that is good. His is the truth and the light and no darkness is found in him. Scripture repeatedly mentions that Jesus' shed blood on The Cross, ransomed us. A ransom is a payment between two parties for the release of prisoners. So...who were we prisoners of...and to whom did Jesus make payment for the transfer of ownership?
Yes from our sin which dooms is to death. That is our ransom. Sheol, hades, the realm of the dead is our prison. Satan or The Satan is the accuser, of us. Satan was the one who tempted Eve and then Adam, Satan did not cause the first sin, he however presented the temptation to do it. We are prisoners of our sin, and our sentence is death. Jesus paid a debt we could not. The law is referred to as a death sentence. Why? Because no one could fulfill it. Even in psalms David states how God does not at all desire sacrifices of animals. “By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."
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Post by cwood85 on Jun 1, 2019 17:22:51 GMT -6
Sorry, but the nations are still deceived to this day. There is crime, murder, rape, destruction and so on....even our own Government puts a heavy yoke on its neighbors. Satan is still deceiving. He is not sealed. That is because AFTER Christ reigns, AFTER the nations are healed and no longer deceived, AFTER the rapture, AFTER the tribulation, AFTER every eye will "SEE HIM" then we see: There is evil in the world today because the demons are still roaming free...NOT because Satan is roaming free. Be thankful of what Jesus did for you on The Cross....as God of this world.
I am not so sure you quiet know what Jesus did on the cross. Satan was not the god of this world, but was the ruler as Jesus says with his own mouth. There is a gross misunderstanding that this is happening between God, Satan and demons: That^^^^ is not happening. Jesus and Satan are not and have never been in “combat” with one another over us. John the Baptist made it crystal clear what Jesus was and did accomplish both on the cross and at his resurrection. ”Behold the lamb of God who takes away the SIN of the world!” <<<<<< I don’t see any mention of Satan in there, do you? Let’s see more of what Jesus accomplished for the world and what we should be thankful for. Jesus/Yeshua means God is Salvation. That does not or imply at all God saved our souls from the devil. That means God is our salvation, he is our life, he is everything. He is the only way to not be forever lost to death. What are the wages of sin? Torture by Satan and his demons? Satan getting to keep a tally of how many souls his has compared to God? Bologna. “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”The wages of sin is Satan and doom to him? No, that’s not what is said there either. It’s implied by that is the case by many, but not all. “For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.”
“For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.”
“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.”
^^^^^^Don’t see anything in that verse about Satan blocking us or harboring our souls because of sin. I see all have sinned because of Adam, and because one man who was perfect and loves us so much, died the most horrific death to cleanse us of sin. He gave us life by God resurrecting him. The first fruit from death to life. To prove death has no power over God, sin has not power over God and that God is salvation 💗 The death on the cross didn’t bind Satan so he could no longer block or prevent us from coming to Christ, it fulfilled the law that we could not, nailed it to the cross so God can be with us. This was all part of the plan and will of God. The lamb who was slain before the foundation of the world to wash creation of sin. That is the beautiful simplicity of this and why it is referenced as being so easy a child can understand. God simply wants us. He loves his creation and will one day be all in all. Satan is not blocking or preventing any of plan or will of God and above all, has no say or power to block that from happening. “For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD." <<<<< This is NOT an act of force, but an act of acceptance and worship. Stop giving Satan and demonic spirits credit and power they do not harbor or can will. Can they deceive, yes you bet, can they wreak havoc in our lives through spiritual attacks in many forms, yep. But we are the ultimate factor in whether or not we give into the temptation. Our pride blinds and fools us into thinking we can get away or be in charge of the consequences of our choices. The gospel is the good news! It is not an ultimatum of do or die or a ticket out of the hellbound express! The good news is God takes the responsibility for our salvation. That is what we should be thankful for! We are not responsible enough to do this for ourselves and that was the whole purpose of the law, to prove that. He is a good father and a good and loving father never gives up on his children. Our biggest battle is with ourselves in truly understanding and resting in this. We are the 1 that he leaves the 99 to rescue, the hidden treasure in the field that he sold everything for. Christ isn’t a ticket we hold in our hand to wave around for everyone to see or a blockage that finally worked for Satan so he cannot collect any more souls. He is life, love and all that is good. His is the truth and the light and no darkness is found in him.
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Post by cwood85 on May 30, 2019 22:11:43 GMT -6
What did the terrible suffering, agony, pain, and finally death of Jesus accomplish by dying on the cross? I do not ask this just for myself, but for discussion from everyone else if you feel like joining in. What was finished exactly? What was fulfilled? What was achieved and completed by this most unselfish acts of love to ever be displayed and witnessed? Who was this done for? What exactly is the gospel, because it was being preached and taught before Jesus was crucified? The good news was being spread by the apostles. What are we to do now that Christ was crucified and rose from the dead? What is salvation and how did the death of Jesus allow this to be gifted for the world by dying on the cross? What are the consequences of sin?
Satan was bound at The Cross.
This event ushered in a new era in which mankind is now able to come to Christ without Satan blocking the way.
The time period we are now in is referred to in scripture as The First Resurrection, the 1k earthly reign of Christ, etc...
I do agree Satan is no longer ruler of this world because of Jesus sacrifice and resurrection, but am confused about us being in the 1k reign and resurrection? I do not agree that Satan did or has ever had a way to block us from Christ. Satan has no power to harbor or hold souls and only can do what God allows him to do. Jesus died and rose from the dead just shy of 2000 years ago. How and when did the 1k start?
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Post by cwood85 on May 30, 2019 22:04:27 GMT -6
cwood, with all respect, I do not see where your post is related to anything I have posted.....the point I am making is that for a stop to sacrifice to occur, there must be a reinstitution of sacrifice first, and that a red heifer ceremony must occur for that reinstitution.....maybe I am missing your point entirely. These must occur before an AOD....whatever you think that is, I have not commented on the nature of the AOD That said, I will not argue with you about it on this forum Didn’t realize I was arguing? ?? I apologize if I seem like I was and was not aware I was a part of anything other than a discussion. Typed conversations are sometimes difficult as I am rather blunt and do not mean any ill will. Just not gracious with words tbh. My point in my post and maybe I am not being very clear or conveying what is in my head into typing, is the tying together of the red heifer with what is in Daniel and what Jesus referring to because the Jews have already started sacrificing on important dates several times a year and are daily sacrifices only to start because of a red heifer?
Jesus is referring to a Holy place not a temple nor is the word temple is not used in Daniel 9:27 by Gabriel. Just trying to see and understand why this is tied together as being something that is a necessity or only to occur with a red heifer? I did ask questions that are related to the topic which is about the red heifer and the temple that it is to be placed in for sacrifice (and my questions have gone unanswered) being sacrificed and then analyzing the words Jesus did use in the verses that are assumed or taught as to be referring to a physical third temple that a red heifer will be sacrificed in. I also clarified where I had a misunderstanding of what was posted. Since the red heifer is needed to properly cleanse the temple according to Judaism (?), is Jesus referring to a third temple as a Holy place and why is it taught that he is? Hope that is on topic enough. If not please move to the appropriate thread.
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Post by cwood85 on May 30, 2019 20:49:27 GMT -6
“And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.” NASB Version
Jesus does not say the abomination is in a temple, but in the Holy place we’re it ought not to be. He does not use the word temple.
“Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand)...”
Here is a breakdown from strongs on the words Jesus uses for Holy place, because he was being very specific and even Matthew notes to let the reader understand as in really really pay attention here.
••••••From Strongs••••••
40 hágios – properly, different (unlike), other ("otherness"), holy; for the believer, 40 (hágios) means "likeness of nature with the Lord" because "different from the world."
The fundamental (core) meaning of 40 (hágios) is "different" – thus a temple in the 1st century was hagios ("holy") because different from other buildings (Wm. Barclay). In the NT, 40 /hágios ("holy") has the "technical" meaning "different from the world" because "like the Lord."
[40 (hágios) implies something "set apart" and therefore "different (distinguished/distinct)" – i.e. "other," because special to the Lord.]
•••••••
I do not think a man made temple is going to be Holy or special to the Lord. Particularly one were blasphemous sacrifices are being done in or at.
At least in regards to what is thought this passage is referencing to in modern theology.
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