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Post by MissusMack08 on Aug 20, 2017 20:10:53 GMT -6
This may be it!! Makes soooo much sense to me. Latest video from Daniel Valles. Watch from beginning to about 32 minutes when he starts preaching (not that I'm discouraging the preaching part, but that's when the new info stops). Red Dragon Eclipse This explains the "Behold! a great red dragon...!" IT'S THE ECLIPSE!!! He explains how it historically was viewed as a dragon eating the sun and other historical aspects. As well as how Draco, Serpens, and Hydra are all the dragon as well, just different aspects. Before watching this video I was considering Serpens again and wondering if somehow Draco and Serpens could both be part of the Sign just different aspects. Like Draco represents the 1/3 stars but Serpens represents the dragon lying in wait for the child. I'm so pumped! No time to watch it tonight, does he at least cite a source for this? Revelation 12 doesn't mention the Dragon eating the sun. No, that's one of my irritations with his videos. It may be in some of his literature, but I don't want to go through it all. HOWEVER, it's about the Ascending Node where the moon crosses the ecliptic (only place an eclipse can occur) going above the equatorial line (above Hydra) being called the "Head of the Dragon" from ancient times. The Descending Node, where the moon crosses the ecliptic going down below the equatorial line towards Hydra, is called the "Tail of the Dragon." Doing a quick search, I found this info on Wikipedia, en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_node Tomorrow's solar eclipse is a "Head of the Dragon." Just watch the video when you get the chance :-)
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Post by socalexile on Aug 20, 2017 20:16:35 GMT -6
So Valles in his latest video makes some historical claims on Draco, Serpens, and Hydra that he does not cite, and I can't seem to find any evidence for.
There might be a Biblical connection between Draco and the serpent in the Garden, based on Revelation 12:9 in the Septuagint and in the Hebrew language; however, without citations to historical sources, it looks like he's making it up and claiming it's history.
He also pushes his graphics and booklets rather hard, which raises an eyebrow for me - I know he teaches a partial rapture in them, the foundation of which is built on a limited understanding of the Gospel.
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Post by socalexile on Aug 20, 2017 20:19:00 GMT -6
No time to watch it tonight, does he at least cite a source for this? Revelation 12 doesn't mention the Dragon eating the sun. No, that's one of my irritations with his videos. It may be in some of his literature, but I don't want to go through it all. HOWEVER, it's about the Ascending Node where the moon crosses the ecliptic (only place an eclipse can occur) going above the equatorial line (above Hydra) being called the "Head of the Dragon" from ancient times. The Descending Node, where the moon crosses the ecliptic going down below the equatorial line towards Hydra, is called the "Tail of the Dragon." Doing a quick search, I found this info on Wikipedia, en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_node Tomorrow's solar eclipse is a "Head of the Dragon." Just watch the video when you get the chance :-) So what's the 7 heads, 10 horns and 7 crowns then? Is it astronomical or ?
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Post by MissusMack08 on Aug 20, 2017 20:41:36 GMT -6
No, that's one of my irritations with his videos. It may be in some of his literature, but I don't want to go through it all. HOWEVER, it's about the Ascending Node where the moon crosses the ecliptic (only place an eclipse can occur) going above the equatorial line (above Hydra) being called the "Head of the Dragon" from ancient times. The Descending Node, where the moon crosses the ecliptic going down below the equatorial line towards Hydra, is called the "Tail of the Dragon." Doing a quick search, I found this info on Wikipedia, en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_node Tomorrow's solar eclipse is a "Head of the Dragon." Just watch the video when you get the chance :-) So what's the 7 heads, 10 horns and 7 crowns then? Is it astronomical or ? Those are still Draco, Bootes, and Corona Borealis. He's not saying the eclipse is now negating everything he's already taught about Draco. Rather, each part is a separate aspect of The Dragon. It's one big picture but visualized in separate smaller pictures. So the Dragon is Draco, Serpens and Hydra. The eclipse is the physical and yet still symbolic manifestation of the dragon.
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Post by MissusMack08 on Aug 20, 2017 21:16:45 GMT -6
So Valles in his latest video makes some historical claims on Draco, Serpens, and Hydra that he does not cite, and I can't seem to find any evidence for. There might be a Biblical connection between Draco and the serpent in the Garden, based on Revelation 12:9 in the Septuagint and in the Hebrew language; however, without citations to historical sources, it looks like he's making it up and claiming it's history. He also pushes his graphics and booklets rather hard, which raises an eyebrow for me - I know he teaches a partial rapture in them, the foundation of which is built on a limited understanding of the Gospel. I'm not sure exactly what historical claims you mean, but here's an excerpt from a secular source that had a lot of historical references on Draco: Dragons abound in myths from many lands. Many of those myths describe how the world was formed, with a dragon playing the star role. Draco comes from the word meaning to see or watch, and the dragon is often guarding something such as the golden apples in the garden of the Hesperides. To win the treasure, the monster guarding it has to be overcome. Usually a horrible dragon-monster must be slain by one of the young gods of the new order. The warrior-god who is successful, then fashions the Universe out of the hacked-up bits and pieces of the dragon-monster. [NPS p.237]. The other legend takes us to primordial times when the Titanic gods still fought with the Olympic gods for the supremacy of the Universe, the Snake snatched by Minerva (Pallas Athena) from the giants and whirled to the sky. The battle between the old Titanic gods and the new generation of the Olympic gods raged and the heavens reverberated with the din of war. Jupiter, the commander of the Olympians, his lieutenants Neptune and Pluto, and the many lesser deities were on the one side. Against these Olympians were the Giant Titans, amongst whom were many ugly monsters, the dragon being one of them. When, so the legend says, the battle had lasted for more than ten years, it neared its climax. The dragon, on this occasion, opposed Minerva, the Goddess of Wisdom. Minerva seized the dragon by its tail and, with a mighty swing, hurled it from the Earth. As the dragon sailed away into the void of Heaven, it started to spin and turn and got itself all twisted up in many knots. After a long journey, the dragon struck the dome of the stars where it became tangled because of the rotation of the heavens. Before it had time to undo all the knots in its body, the dragon froze because it was so close to the North Celestial Pole where it is always very cold. Today we see the Dragon as it was last seen many thousands of years ago, at the end of the long and fierce battle between the Titans and the Olympians. [NPS p.237]. The dragon has always been seen as an animal of evil and darkness, and whenever there is an eclipse of the Sun or Moon, ancient people believed that a dragon was about to devour the Light of Day or the Queen of Night [the nodes of the moon are the dragon's head and tail]. The only remedy for this circumstance was to create as much noise as possible with all kinds of contrivances - such as drums, tin cans, lids, pots and pans. If frightened, the dragon would spit out the Sun or Moon. [NPS]. —From www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sumer_anunnaki/reptiles/reptiles48.htm Not to defend his lack of citation... but I don't believe he is making anything up. I think he really believes what he is teaching is correct and wants people to be ready. All of his charts and booklets are free. One issue that I have found that I can't confirm is ancient peoples referring to Draco as Red or Fiery. I believe in the video where he talks about the poem Phaenomina, he cites the poem, which calls Draco fiery or red. However, I remember the poem he read was written in rhyming prose... in English. The poem I looked up and posted previously was a literal translation from Greek to English. It didn't mention Draco being red or fiery. There is the possibility that he's depending on the English poetic version which may not be true to the original poem. I haven't been able to find the poem to confirm (I haven't looked very hard either). Maybe be I'll just find an email for him and ask him to cite his sources?
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Post by socalexile on Aug 20, 2017 23:37:57 GMT -6
I posted a comment in youtube and he responded with some sources. Looking into them now.
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Post by mike on Aug 21, 2017 6:24:54 GMT -6
I've read through most of this thread and there are some awesome theories. But-- Woke this morning with this thought-- would the baby see the dragon? (if you go with the idea that the body of Christ is the child about to be born) If the baby is all safe and warm and about to be birthed out of here right up to the throne, would the baby inside the womb know or understand or see a red dragon standing around licking it's chops? In other words, perhaps those who are still here on this earth after the baby departs will get the full understanding of the sign of the red dragon. Just a thought but it could explain why there's no clear understanding of this next sign just yet. Makes perfect sense
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Post by yardstick on Aug 21, 2017 9:25:39 GMT -6
Even tho Yardstick shot my theory full of holes a few pages back, I still wouldn't rule out this being a "supernatural event" (not arguing this one, in fact at first I was like "what the #@$& 'heck' no way I'm wrong! My pride was quickly checked and I thank my brother for caring enough to research and organize a response based on truth!) Just throwing this out there and if it makes zero sense, I'm 100% ok with it, just give me a quick (Mike you're way off) 🙂 Is it possible John did see the Dragon in the stars, meaning Satan? But if it was in the same vain as Yardstick notes that John was saying "stars" could it be those stars were some UFO type of thing where John didn't fully understand how to explain them? I mean he does clearly call the demons or fallen angels stars too and we know they aren't literal stars. We all seem to want to know where the red dragon is, so this came to mind. Similarly I often wonder what John tried to explain in Rev 9:7 describing the locusts, looking like horses with faces of men. I mean what did he really see? Are these demonic entities, nephilim, or did he really see giant locusts that looked like horses, etc.? (<<Rhetorical) Similarly Did he really see a constellation, stars or was he "doing his best to describe something for our time that he'd never seen or could imagine There could very well be some parallelism going on. Many have described such things in the past. Even Revelation has parallelism from one chapter to the next, with respect to the same topic. BTW, apologies for 'shocking' you. I tend to speak without consideration of feelings. I am sorry.
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Post by yardstick on Aug 21, 2017 9:30:12 GMT -6
This may be it!! Makes soooo much sense to me. Latest video from Daniel Valles. Watch from beginning to about 32 minutes when he starts preaching (not that I'm discouraging the preaching part, but that's when the new info stops). Red Dragon Eclipse This explains the "Behold! a great red dragon...!" IT'S THE ECLIPSE!!! He explains how it historically was viewed as a dragon eating the sun and other historical aspects. As well as how Draco, Serpens, and Hydra are all the dragon as well, just different aspects. Before watching this video I was considering Serpens again and wondering if somehow Draco and Serpens could both be part of the Sign just different aspects. Like Draco represents the 1/3 stars but Serpens represents the dragon lying in wait for the child. I'm so pumped! I began suspecting this last week also, once I realized the Draconids did not emanate from the tail of Draco, but from the head area. Unless they show very 'heavy' activity in the tail area this year on Oct 7-9, there must be another explanation for Rev 12:3-4. I hope people who have a better view of the eclipse this year than I do (heavy cloud cover) can keep an eye out for a foreign object to the left, and possibly 'above' the eclipse. I would expect such an object to be roughly the size of a pea or pushpin head.
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Post by yardstick on Aug 21, 2017 9:35:37 GMT -6
I've read through most of this thread and there are some awesome theories. But-- Woke this morning with this thought-- would the baby see the dragon? (if you go with the idea that the body of Christ is the child about to be born) If the baby is all safe and warm and about to be birthed out of here right up to the throne, would the baby inside the womb know or understand or see a red dragon standing around licking it's chops? In other words, perhaps those who are still here on this earth after the baby departs will get the full understanding of the sign of the red dragon. Just a thought but it could explain why there's no clear understanding of this next sign just yet. This would definitely be a good explanation for why those looking would not have been successful in determining how the Dragon will be represented, other than celestially.
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Post by yardstick on Aug 21, 2017 10:06:14 GMT -6
I don't have any astronomy software (I'm on an iPad and what I found online was difficult to use) so I'll take your word for it with the various lines that could be drawn from different stars. Good work putting it all together! I'm just trying to understand everything as a whole picture. And a consistent whole picture. So in this case, we have two different "whole" pictures. But yes, the conception and gestation are speculative. I'm still having trouble with Serpens being the Sign with the addition of the five horns in October. This being with the sign itself. Serpens is part of Ophiuchus but the added horns are in Virgo. With the woman sign, the wandering stars must be in Virgo near her head to be counted. And they are specifically called stars; the moon and sun are not counted. It seems inconsistent to me that then all of these planets plus the moon and sun would then become the horns missing from Serpens. It it seems more straightforward to me that Bootes is the 10 horns. However, I think its possible that all three serpent constellations are depicted in the Rev 12 text: Draco: Great red dragon, tails sweeps 1/3 of stars Hydra: having 7 heads Serpens: fights with Michael since Corona Borealis and Bootes are near both Draco and caput Serpens, they could be the 7 crowns and 10 horns for both. Hydra was known as a multi-headed serpent and is found along the equatorial ecliptic (is that what it's called?) and perhaps those crazy serpent lines that Whatif pointed out being seen on the ground is why ancients believed that a dragon (in this case a multi-headed dragon) ate the sun during an eclipse. where specifically the 7 heads are, if they are represented in the sky, I'm not sure, other than according to Daniel Valles, there are 7 stars in Draco's head. Though this is not what is traditionally depicted. I think some of the stars are binary, but that wouldn't be visible from the ground. Again, I don't have a way to really confirm that apart from going outside and looking for Draco to see how many stars I can see around his head. The good thing is that there are some good theories out there, and we each favor one or the other for good reasons! The Dragon sign is not a deal breaker in the sense that the Woman in Labor is.....we are looking at the same place at the same time roughly....it is a confirming sign. I think it is John's way of telling us that we are indeed looking in the right place at the right time....he is directing us to look at a specific section of the heavens at a specific time, and so with a good Dragon, whichever one it is, we can be assured that yes, we are not off our rockers. I used to believe that the rev 12:3-4 sign was a confirming sign for Rev 12:1-2, but then I realized something: The Rev 12:1-2 sign is a one-in-a-million (ok, one-in-7000) situation. It never happens more than once in 7000 years. With such rarity, why would we need a confirming sign? Wouldn't the rarity be enough to distinguish this sign as a 'great sign'? So right now I am pondering: What if this sign is the warning that the Dragon is about to get thrown down to earth; or what if it is an identifying sign or what if it is some warning as to who the Dragon is; or what if it is a sign related to the Dragon and not something else? What if it is not to confirm the other sign?
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Post by yardstick on Aug 21, 2017 10:09:57 GMT -6
So what's the 7 heads, 10 horns and 7 crowns then? Is it astronomical or ? Those are still Draco, Bootes, and Corona Borealis. He's not saying the eclipse is now negating everything he's already taught about Draco. Rather, each part is a separate aspect of The Dragon. It's one big picture but visualized in separate smaller pictures. So the Dragon is Draco, Serpens and Hydra. The eclipse is the physical and yet still symbolic manifestation of the dragon. Like a triptych
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Post by mike on Aug 21, 2017 10:38:58 GMT -6
Even tho Yardstick shot my theory full of holes a few pages back, I still wouldn't rule out this being a "supernatural event" (not arguing this one, in fact at first I was like "what the #@$& 'heck' no way I'm wrong! My pride was quickly checked and I thank my brother for caring enough to research and organize a response based on truth!) Just throwing this out there and if it makes zero sense, I'm 100% ok with it, just give me a quick (Mike you're way off) 🙂 Is it possible John did see the Dragon in the stars, meaning Satan? But if it was in the same vain as Yardstick notes that John was saying "stars" could it be those stars were some UFO type of thing where John didn't fully understand how to explain them? I mean he does clearly call the demons or fallen angels stars too and we know they aren't literal stars. We all seem to want to know where the red dragon is, so this came to mind. Similarly I often wonder what John tried to explain in Rev 9:7 describing the locusts, looking like horses with faces of men. I mean what did he really see? Are these demonic entities, nephilim, or did he really see giant locusts that looked like horses, etc.? (<<Rhetorical) Similarly Did he really see a constellation, stars or was he "doing his best to describe something for our time that he'd never seen or could imagine There could very well be some parallelism going on. Many have described such things in the past. Even Revelation has parallelism from one chapter to the next, with respect to the same topic. BTW, apologies for 'shocking' you. I tend to speak without consideration of feelings. I am sorry. Yardstick...I am a grown man, (Italian from "Joisey") who oftentimes has trouble sugar coating things. Though I've improved through the years, I've realized I'm just the type of person who has to make efforts to explain myself properly without just giving the point and assuming people will understand. Saying that to say, its no problem and no need to apologize. Sometimes its not easy delivering the truth to people. Sometimes people dont want to hear the truth no matter how you present it. When I had the thought about it "not being an actual celestial sign" I thought I might be onto something. You properly and truthfully explained why it was a celestial sign and my reaction was "I thought I was right" I started looking for something to prove "I was right and you weren't" then as i read through the material you provided I realized (or the Lord revealed) that the scripture was saying in fact John saw something in the heavens and it was not merely a vision. I am totally 100% fine with everything you said. I would rather have a brother tell me I am mis-interpreting or mis-reading, etc. than continue in error. Now I still think there may be some application for the dragon to be celestial but as something we've never experienced. Perhaps the UFO phenomenon or similar. Maybe it is a celestial body of sorts, that we cant see yet. Either way we know whats coming and hope the signs continue to encourage our faith as we await the redemption of our bodies!
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Post by brad on Aug 21, 2017 10:49:20 GMT -6
Italian Joisey Mike.... Both the supernatural and traditional views are completely still on my table... getting exciting isn't it! We shall know soon enough! either way Joisey Mike... Something big this way comes!
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Post by mike on Aug 21, 2017 11:01:58 GMT -6
Italian Joisey Mike.... Both the supernatural and traditional views are completely still on my table... getting exciting isn't it! We shall know soon enough! either way Joisey Mike... Something big this way comes![/quoteh] Lol... When I was in my teens/twenties I had a 'bad' Jersey accent. I still use some of the lingo, but in order to not sound uneducated, I had to learn to talk normal. Yes im trying to temper my excitement. Why? I wish I knew why Im not acting like Noah or John... We know the Lord is at the door, yet my actions are more reserved than they should be. Gonna grab my tinfoil hat now
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