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Post by boraddict on Nov 11, 2017 2:18:10 GMT -6
Psalms 110:1, "The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
It is my opinion that Davids Lord is Lord Jesus. Thus the verse reads: The Lord ( ) said unto my Lord (Lord Jesus), Sit thou (Lord Jesus) at my ( ) right hand until I ( ) make thine (Lord Jesus') enemies thy (Lord Jesus') footstool."
Psalms 110:2, "The Lord shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: Rule thou in the midst of thine enemies."
And Verse 2 reads: The Lord ( ) shall send the rod of thy (Lord Jesus') strength out of Zion: Rule thou (Lord Jesus) in the midst of thine (Lord Jesus') enemies.
Psalms 110:3, "Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth."
And the verse reads: Thy (Lord Jesus') people shall be willing in the day of thy (Lord Jesus) power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: Thou (Lord Jesus)
hast the dew of thy (Lord Jesus) youth.
Psalms 110:4, "The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek."
And the verse reads: The Lord (Lord Jesus) hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou ( ) art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Psalms 110:5, "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath."
And the verse reads: The Lord (Lord Jesus) at thy ( ) right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his (Lord Jesus') wrath.
Psalms 110:6, "He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries."
And the verse reads: He (Lord Jesus) shall judge among the heathen, he (Lord Jesus) shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he (Lord Jesus) shall wound the heads over many countries.
Psalms 110:7, "He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head."
And the verse reads: He (Lord Jesus) shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he (Lord Jesus) lift up the head.
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Post by Natalie on Nov 11, 2017 8:46:35 GMT -6
That's neat seeing it written out that way. Should "Father" go in the empty ()?
Although I would make one correction in verse 4:
"The Lord (the Father) hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou (Lord Jesus) art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." based on (Hebrews 5:5-6)
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Post by boraddict on Nov 11, 2017 9:30:37 GMT -6
That's neat seeing it written out that way. Should "Father" go in the empty ()? Although I would make one correction in verse 4: "The Lord (the Father) hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou (Lord Jesus) art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." based on (Hebrews 5:5-6) Thank you Natalie, that was going to be my next point. Although verse 4 does not force-ably stand out, it appears to be the key after Davids Lord is understood to be Lord Jesus. Psalms 110:4, "The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek." And the verse reads: The Lord (Lord Jesus) hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou ( ) art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. Lord Jesus is God. He is not a priest after the order of Melchizedek. Thus, it appears that the order of the two Lords changes at the center and emphasis of the Chapter; Verse 4. Hebrews 5:5 restates Psalms 110:4 where it says: "So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest...." "But he (Lord Jesus) that said unto him (the high priest), Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee." Hebrews 5:6 reinforces this: "As he (Lord Jesus) saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek." Thus it is my opinion that Psalms 110:4 states as I have referenced above. |
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Post by kjs on Nov 11, 2017 9:49:20 GMT -6
Hebrews 7 clearly shows that Jesus is the one who is like Melchizedek.
Yes Jesus is God, but He is also The Son.....
and as The Son he became the Priest who is like Melchizedek
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Post by boraddict on Nov 11, 2017 10:09:42 GMT -6
Hebrews 7 clearly shows that Jesus is the one who is like Melchizedek. Yes Jesus is God, but He is also The Son..... and as The Son he became the Priest who is like Melchizedek That is a good point. However, in my opinion Hebrews 7 states: "Who (the high priest) in the days of his (the high priests) flesh, when he (the high priest) had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him (Lord Jesus) that was able to save him (the high priest) from death, and was heard in that he (the high priest) feared." |
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Post by boraddict on Nov 11, 2017 10:25:28 GMT -6
Continuing in Hebrews 5, Verse 8 in my opinion states: "Though he (Lord Jesus) were a Son, yet learned he (Lord Jesus) obedience by the things which he (Lord Jesus) suffered."
And in my opinion Hebrews 5:9 states "And being made perfect, he (Lord Jesus) became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him (the high priest).
Hebrews 5:10, "Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec."
Hebrews 5:11, "Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing."
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Post by thetimeoftheend on Nov 11, 2017 11:32:02 GMT -6
Continuing in Hebrews 5, Verse 8 in my opinion states: "Though he (Lord Jesus) were a Son, yet learned he (Lord Jesus) obedience by the things which he (Lord Jesus) suffered." And in my opinion Hebrews 5:9 states "And being made perfect, he (Lord Jesus) became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him (the high priest). Hebrews 5:10, "Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec." Hebrews 5:11, "Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing." I think the problem here is context, in your earlier reply to Natalie, you quoted Hebrews 5:5 and interpreted it as such to say that Christ is not a Priest in the Order of Melchizedek. You then use the next 6 verses to back up your case. However, this is not what this is saying at all. What this is saying is Christ did not take this glory upon himself, He was called by his Father. This is where context is critical, when you read the preceding verse, Hebrews 5:4, it talks about Aaron not taking the glory of the priesthood on himself, but rather through obedience after being called by God. These scriptures, when taken in the totality of their context clearly show God called Jesus to be a High Priest forever in the Order of Melchizedek. It is also becomes very clear when reading Psalm 110 that this was God the Father speaking to God the Son. |
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Post by thetimeoftheend on Nov 11, 2017 11:36:18 GMT -6
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Post by boraddict on Nov 11, 2017 12:38:44 GMT -6
Continuing in Hebrews 5, Verse 8 in my opinion states: "Though he (Lord Jesus) were a Son, yet learned he (Lord Jesus) obedience by the things which he (Lord Jesus) suffered." And in my opinion Hebrews 5:9 states "And being made perfect, he (Lord Jesus) became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him (the high priest). Hebrews 5:10, "Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec." Hebrews 5:11, "Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing." I think the problem here is context, in your earlier reply to Natalie, you quoted Hebrews 5:5 and interpreted it as such to say that Christ is not a Priest in the Order of Melchizedek. You then use the next 6 verses to back up your case. However, this is not what this is saying at all. What this is saying is Christ did not take this glory upon himself, He was called by his Father. This is where context is critical, when you read the preceding verse, Hebrews 5:4, it talks about Aaron not taking the glory of the priesthood on himself, but rather through obedience after being called by God. These scriptures, when taken in the totality of their context clearly show God called Jesus to be a High Priest forever in the Order of Melchizedek. It is also becomes very clear when reading Psalm 110 that this was God the Father speaking to God the Son. Yes, I understand what you mean about Hebrews 5:4. Perhaps we should look at how Aaron was called (Exodus Chapter 4). Exodus 4:14, "And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee he will be glad in his heart." Thus, it is my understanding that first of all, Aaron was a brother, he could speak well, he cometh forth to meet, and when he does he will be glad in his heart. Thus, in my opinion we are looking for someone who is a brother to Lord Jesus, that speaks well, who comes forth to meet Lord Jesus, and when he does he is glad in his heart. If Aaron's call as referenced in Hebrews 5:4 was referring to Lord Jesus, then Lord Jesus would be God the Fathers brother. And we all now that is not the case. Thus, the man that was called as Aaron was called, is not Lord Jesus but his brother. I do not mean his brother as in being born of the same mother, but his brother as in being born as a Levite. After all, it clearly states that Moses was a levite, and his brother was a levite. Likewise, Lord Jesus was from the tribe of Judah and his brother is from the tribe of Judah. |
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Post by thetimeoftheend on Nov 11, 2017 12:51:37 GMT -6
I think the problem here is context, in your earlier reply to Natalie, you quoted Hebrews 5:5 and interpreted it as such to say that Christ is not a Priest in the Order of Melchizedek. You then use the next 6 verses to back up your case. However, this is not what this is saying at all. What this is saying is Christ did not take this glory upon himself, He was called by his Father. This is where context is critical, when you read the preceding verse, Hebrews 5:4, it talks about Aaron not taking the glory of the priesthood on himself, but rather through obedience after being called by God. These scriptures, when taken in the totality of their context clearly show God called Jesus to be a High Priest forever in the Order of Melchizedek. It is also becomes very clear when reading Psalm 110 that this was God the Father speaking to God the Son. Yes, I understand what you mean about Hebrews 5:4. Perhaps we should look at how Aaron was called (Exodus Chapter 4). Exodus 4:14, "And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Moses, and he said, is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee he will be glad in his heart." Thus, it is my understanding that first of all, Aaron was a brother, he could speak well, he cometh forth to meet, and when he does he will be glad in his heart. Thus, in my opinion we are looking for someone who is a brother to Lord Jesus, that speaks well, who comes forth to meet Lord Jesus, and when he does he is glad in his heart. If Aaron's call as referenced in Hebrews 5:4 was referring to Lord Jesus, then Lord Jesus would be God the Fathers brother. And we all now that is not the case. Thus, the man that was called as Aaron was called is not Lord Jesus but his brother. I do not mean his brother as in being born of the same mother, but his brother as in being born as a Levite. After all, it clearly states that Moses was a levite, and his brother was a levite. Likewise, Lord Jesus was from the tribe of Judah and his brother is from the tribe of Judah. You'll have to forgive me, but I don't understand how you are making that connection at all, I think it requires some pretty hefty gymnastics, that are at odds with a plain reading of scripture, and widely accepted orthodoxy. I have a feeling we could go back and forth on this, but scripture is pretty clear the matter, so I will allow God to speak for Himself through the author of Hebrews. |
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Post by boraddict on Nov 11, 2017 18:01:31 GMT -6
Yes, I understand what you mean about Hebrews 5:4. Perhaps we should look at how Aaron was called (Exodus Chapter 4). Exodus 4:14, "And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Moses, and he said, is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee he will be glad in his heart." Thus, it is my understanding that first of all, Aaron was a brother, he could speak well, he cometh forth to meet, and when he does he will be glad in his heart. Thus, in my opinion we are looking for someone who is a brother to Lord Jesus, that speaks well, who comes forth to meet Lord Jesus, and when he does he is glad in his heart. If Aaron's call as referenced in Hebrews 5:4 was referring to Lord Jesus, then Lord Jesus would be God the Fathers brother. And we all now that is not the case. Thus, the man that was called as Aaron was called is not Lord Jesus but his brother. I do not mean his brother as in being born of the same mother, but his brother as in being born as a Levite. After all, it clearly states that Moses was a levite, and his brother was a levite. Likewise, Lord Jesus was from the tribe of Judah and his brother is from the tribe of Judah. You'll have to forgive me, but I don't understand how you are making that connection at all, I think it requires some pretty hefty gymnastics, that are at odds with a plain reading of scripture, and widely accepted orthodoxy. I have a feeling we could go back and forth on this, but scripture is pretty clear the matter, so I will allow God to speak for Himself through the author of Hebrews. Thank you Thetimeoftheend. Can you show me this clear scripture to which you refer? |
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Post by Natalie on Nov 11, 2017 19:24:05 GMT -6
Hebrews 5:5-6
So also Christ glorified not Himself to be made an high priest; but He (the Father) that said unto Him (Jesus), Thou art my Son, today have I begotten thee.
As He (the Father) saith also in another place, Thou (Jesus) art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
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Post by thetimeoftheend on Nov 11, 2017 20:32:44 GMT -6
Hebrews 5:5-6 So also Christ glorified not Himself to be made an high priest; but He (the Father) that said unto Him (Jesus), Thou art my Son, today have I begotten thee. As He (the Father) saith also in another place, Thou (Jesus) art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. , Natalie has pretty much summed it up with the above quotation. |
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Post by boraddict on Nov 11, 2017 20:59:47 GMT -6
Hebrews 5:5-6 So also Christ glorified not Himself to be made an high priest; but He (the Father) that said unto Him (Jesus), Thou art my Son, today have I begotten thee. As He (the Father) saith also in another place, Thou (Jesus) art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Hi Natalie, thank you for your response. I turned to my concordance and can see that Melchizedek is referenced twice in the Bible at Genesis 14:18 and Psalms 110:4. Additionally, Melchisedec is referenced at Hebrews 5:6, 10, 6:20, 7:1, 10-11, 15, 17 and 21. I believe it is self-evident to both of us that all of these verses refer to the priesthood order of Melchisedec. Since Hebrews defers to the Old Testament with regards to Melchisedec, then I would like to begin there. Genesis 14:18, "And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God." So I guess the question is, was Lord Jesus the most high God before he lived in mortality here upon the earth? Not as God the Father mind you, but as God the Fathers Son. Now that is a big question so now let see if I can answer it in the affirmative. John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Therefore, it is my opinion that Genesis 14:18 reads: And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God (The Word of God, the Christ of salvation, Lord Jesus). Therefore, it is my opinion that Lord Jesus is not after the order of Melchisedec, but the most high God from which it came. |
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Psalms 110
Nov 11, 2017 21:20:03 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by thetimeoftheend on Nov 11, 2017 21:20:03 GMT -6
boraddict, might I ask what hermeneutic you use when interpreting scripture?
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