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Post by mike on Jan 19, 2018 11:57:07 GMT -6
CWood...thanks for the reply I'll try to do my best to respond. Others may have a different take as well...
My apologies for assuming you were the spokesperson. I suppose I assumed from the first post where you said "It was suggested that these questions be asked in private to the moderators, but I feel this is information that all members of this forum would be interested in knowing and getting some clarification/further information on as well. " My assumption came from the "It was suggested" reading into that I assumed someone or several someones suggested this to you. And you also state "all members of this forum..." again I assume you are speaking for multiple people if not all members leading to my bandwagon statement. - My apologies for making that assumptive connection.
BUT
you do appear to be speaking on behalf of at least one person who sent you the message (which you quote). I (am fairly certain I) know who that member is and frankly that situation and every other in particular are very different. I do find it quite strange that this same member emailing you, who hasnt been on here since October just randomly decided to come take a peek on here the day (or day after?) you posted this about a situation between a member and moderator(s) and found that things were happening just as she left them in October. Wonder why that happened the way it did? I am not going to bring that situation into the mix as again we cannot treat everything exactly the same, this was no exception. But this is the type of examples I was hoping to get specifics on. Noted there is "Power trips", "excessive moderating", "controlling" - @cwood, do you feel this way too? If so please help us understand why and perhaps give a few examples of when one of the moderators acted in such a manner. If so why wasnt it reported? <<Also its not that I questioned you receiving messages or a matter of not believing you I just want to try to resolve the matter but I need help identifying what the issue is>>
With the next piece I asked for examples of situations and provided two. My mistake here was assuming (I guess I do this too much) that you thought these two situations werent handled well and asked for suggestions on how you or others would have handled the interaction. While you claim they were "easy" you have little idea what the moderators did to address each of these. There was a lot behind the scenes going on. What you think were easy decisions in fact were not.
I wont comment directly on your reply to KJS but I still have to ask for suggestions as I do not see any. What would you or those who have contacted do as moderators that is different?
A few other thoughts - All members have the ability to report posts for review regardless of who posts them. In my short time as a moderator I have yet to see this happen once. If you (and/or others) feel anyone of us is on a power trip or similar why not report it? Finally - I would ask that whoever else is involved please understand something that about post counts. Every one here has a post ascribed to them. In addition to that count is your status as "New Member" or "Prophecy Guru" and such. That status is based on the post count...Why am I saying this? When you reach a certain count you become "Raptured" (pretty funny) to my knowledge only 3 people have been "raptured" and two are currently moderators. Who cares Mike? My point is before any of us were moderators we were members just like you all. Some of us had WAAAAYYYY to much time and maybe even too much to say, but nonetheless we were regularly and frequently posting to the point of rapture. If anyone feels some of the moderators are "excessively moderating" please understand we may not be doing anything different than we did before. In fact I have participated less on purpose to avoid appearing as if I am intervening or policing the area, which saddens me to have others view me or the other moderators in that light.
We are Christian brothers and sisters here and outside of here. I do not want us to be found backbiting, or in strife so please let us reason together.
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Post by boraddict on Jan 19, 2018 12:15:42 GMT -6
CW, lets say you are right on all counts. You know, just a shot in the dark. How do we achieve peace? That is the real question at hand.
In your opinion what is the right course of action? Because it seems to me that we have a great deal of latitude in this matter. 1) Do we listen to disgruntled people who may or may not have a justified claim and support that division, or 2) do we make peace with our brothers and sisters in Christ?
Yet Mike is here and he is also my friend. Those who complain that there is an "in" group can not be speaking of me because I have been corrected from time to time and rightly so. When my thread was locked I did not say anyone was unfair. Quite the contrary, I accepted the constructive criticism. There was no malice involved but love.
Please know that I think you CW are a beautiful person. Let us find peace.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2018 13:11:03 GMT -6
Just a remark from the viewpoint of a simple member.
Regarding the "Power trips", "excessive moderating", "controlling" I never felt being controlled, moderated or whatever. And I didn't see that being in effect on other posters/members here. Moderation in the shape of questioning, asking for clarifying is fine and I have no problem with.
OK, we have seen some strange theories and strange attitudes of a few here, but I was (and still am) impressed by the patience of the mods at Unsealed.
Sidenote: And by the way, I don't care if a mod attended any conversation here. I see them simply as brothers and sisters with no special "sherrif" label. I am pretty sure that most mods if not all don't really like that special 5-star label.
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Post by Gary on Jan 19, 2018 14:31:39 GMT -6
Friends,
Sorry I'm just now seeing this and I wish I could have chimed in earlier. It's hard to see any division in the Body of Christ, but hey, we are living in a fallen world and satan has every intention of sifting this flock like wheat. Ask yourself why he would want to do that. There is real Holy Spirit power here and it is changing lives, training people in the knowledge of Christ and God's Word, and waking people up to the nearness of Christ's appearing. There is a REAL war going on and we are at the forefront of it. We are given the opportunity to:
1. Proclaim the good news of Jesus' atoning sacrifice and resurrection to a world that doesn't know about it or doesn't correctly understand it.
2. Show love to one another and demonstrate unity even in the midst of confusion/strife/different opinions as a TESTIMONY to the truth of Christ's power in our lives.
3. Encourage brothers and sisters who reside in dead churches to come alive again and get busy with the mission as we await the moment our Savior (very soon) appears.
I think witness1 had a great, peacemaking, Christ-uplifting response:
Regarding people leaving, rarely have we had to remove or ban anyone—only in very extenuating circumstances. On occasion someone leaves, but this is usually their choice. Conflict is hard, but we are called to persevere. That's why I always want to emphasize to friends and family not to run from conflict. My natural inclination is to run/withdraw/avoid, but when that happens there can never be reconciliation. We have to hold fast to one another with love, determination, and forgiveness. I've learned this the hard way in many relationships, including my marriage. Satan seeks to divide. Christ seeks to reconcile.
What offenses can I overlook? What offenses are so hurtful I have to bring it up? These are important questions to ask on issues like these. Where do I need to hold my ground and where can I offer compromise?
Most people fall into one of two camps: 1. Those who quickly escalate with strong responses and a desire to "fix". 2. Those who are afraid of conflict and withdraw. Both sides are extremes and often the solution is to be like Job's true friend Elihu who was just present and faithful. I want to be present and faithful as much as I can be even when I don't necessarily have a solution—I can at least be there.
Hopefully this doesn't sound like too much irrelevant lecture on my part, but the truth is that I don't really know the circumstances for SK or why he made that choice as I have a newborn and my family has been in and out of the hospital three times in the last 6 weeks for 5 days, 3 days, and 7 days, respectively—so I'm very out of the loop, but even in my absence I fully trust the awesome mods/shepherds here, as well as all of the brothers and sisters in this INCREDIBLE community to fully carry out Christ's mission of 1. preaching the gospel, 2. remaining loving and united, 3. showing grace, 4. staying WATCHFUL. We are all a kingdom of priests and each of us is appointed to be a priest/leader/teacher/disciple-maker. We're Protestants after all! No hierarchy aside from volunteer servant leaders. No one is to lord it over another. The goal is to lead from the bottom-up, washing the grime off of one another's feet.
Lastly, I just want to address a couple of things that have been touched on:
1. Regarding leadership style: keep in mind that this community has only been around since mid-2015 and only in the past year has it really grown. We're all, leaders included, learning how to be godly, prayerful, gracious shepherds. It's hard, but I am fully persuaded we all want the same thing. It's a learning process. And with now ~500 members and over 500 guests a day on top of that, this is very much like a pretty good-sized church with many different people, backgrounds, and even, on occasion, conflicts and competing interests. We're still learning.
I am the admin, that's true, but that is purely for maintaining the technical aspects of the forum. I am not the leader. Christ is. And, at least how I intend it to be, I and the mods are on equal footing as the servant leaders who shepherd this community. I don't want to be in-charge—unlike many modern churches which are cults of personality, I would rather this be led by multiple people who are each independently subject to Christ.
In short, this should not be:
Gary (lords it over) ↑ yardstick, whatif, Natalie, watchmanjim, kjs, barbiosheepgirl, mike (lords it over) ↑ The community
It should be:
The community (prays for and voluntarily submits to) ↓ ↑ yardstick, whatif, Natalie, kjs, barbiosheepgirl, mike, watchmanjim, Gary (prays for and voluntarily serves)
In reality, especially in light of big chunks of absence on my part lately, the real leaders here have been the mods minus myself. The news site itself has been a joint venture between me, Greg, Jeff, Hillary, and Dolley.
2. Regarding personal info: very rarely have I used those admin powers and I never want to use that to my advantage. I've never searched for (or wanted to search for) anyone's personal information. That's private and I respect that. On maybe 3 or 4 occasions in the past year there were genuine concerns that a couple of people had 2 or 3 accounts each and were trying to fool members. Only in that case and when prodded by complaints, I used an IP log to match up those accounts so we could handle the situation, but I didn't (nor do I know how to) use those IPs to actually uncover a person's real name or other personal info. Now, as someone pointed out earlier, if someone voluntarily gives info out and we learn something personal about them, that isn't anyone "digging" that was freely offered info.
There are some people here that I know in person because brothers and sisters in Dallas have gotten together for fellowship. I respect their personal info, too, and would never want to share that without permission.
3. Regarding rules, the mods and myself have largely been in agreement that one of the blessings here has been the fact there are only three rules. That creates an atmosphere of liberty (and hopefully trust). There are definitely some boundaries regarding theology, but for the most part we want to welcome sola fide Christians of all stripes and even non-Christians who can respect the fact that on here our Christian beliefs are going to be treated as gospel truth.
Blessings to you all, Love, Gary
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jan 19, 2018 15:01:50 GMT -6
Thank you Gary, and I am praying for you and your family and the little one that these hospital trips go away and health is restored to your little one...how frustrting for you and your poor wife...
witness1 you are an angel today!
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Jan 23, 2018 13:45:19 GMT -6
I have been thinking and dwelling and praying in regards to this matter.
Something I think what I have come to see lacking in many many occasion when things get 'heated up" among us posters is the lack of GRACE given by each one of us. One big barrier we have being an Online church is that typed conversation lacks things audible : tone, humor, condescension, sadness, concern, anger, or happiness and we INFER all these things based upon personal perception, or our mood at the moment.
The tone of the writer can come across wrong simply because the recipient is misunderstanding the very tone of the writer. Even before being invited to moderate, I could see where two people got in trouble with one another over lack of understanding of tone. Look, I love this Church at Unsealed. Bullies are not tolerated and some have come here with this lack of humility and grace from the start, and in turn, come off as bullies.
Some come here in all humbleness and then become hardened or steadfast when challenged, and defend themselves in the flesh and not spirit. I have seen a humble, gracious challenge/rebuttal taken as an arrow or dagger when it never was meant to be. I have seen a point of view led with scriptural backing and humbleness, only to have daggers poured upon it.
Are we not all here to discern His Word? We are still men of flesh in this earthly dwelling we call our physical body and though saved by the Work of Christ on the cross, we are apt to stumble and let our sinful makeup get in the way even in discernment. Call it pride maybe. Pride exclaimed by "I am right" and "your position is heretical." Can we not have sensible study of scripture without discourse? In this fleshly Body at Unsealed we ought not make it be a competition of whose traditions hold more firm...
The thing is this Unsealed Church IS the essence of the Body of Christ. This is NOT a specific denomination formed with rules as to the makeup of the church, how we do communion, or which translation of the Bible is best. All we have is the Rules pages regarding conduct and core faith in Christ's gospel: who Christ is, and what happened to Him when he died on the cross and after that, His Salvation extended to mankind. We all ought to examine our own self as to our own ability to extend grace in the matter of discord. We are all on our individual Walk with the Lord. Not all of us are going to agree with certain interpretations of scripture. Evidence to this by the enormous amounts of threads, the date-focusing by some, the study of God's heavenly bodies by some, the current event updates by some, the addiction by many to the Book of Revelation, our addiction to the mystery of the Rapture, etc, etc, etc...each one of us making a part of this church that desires to UNSEAL the mysteries God He is yet hiding from us or blinding us to.
I learned big time from the Hearing God thread, when there is the sense of frustration, or discourse, or even the thought that the Enemy wants to destroy something good, I think "What is God wanting here?" I think He is wanting us to practice GRACE. Practice FORGIVENESS. LOVE our enemies (dissent, wrong-doings, ill-feelings). So there really is nothing that could upset me if it appears someone is going against me, if I look at it with a spiritual heart. The sadness would be those who hold onto a form of pride and not return grace themselves. Grace given by either the member posting or the moderator... Yes, this includes both members and moderators operating without grace, who hold on to a position saying, "but I am right, I am correct here in my opinion or action..."
When my dad was dying that was our motto. "Give me some grace, would ya?" because, " I am struggling with my flesh, the unfairness of cancer, the worry of our future, the tireness of seeing dad suffer pain...all these things make me react in the flesh, so give me a little grace over my actions and mistakes until I return to Him and Rest in His authority over all things."
Stated by me now, as having been learning to Walk in Him, I say: "Give me a little grace (forum members, and also moderators) while I am walking this path of destruction/confusion (acting apart from God & reacting in my fleshly ways), and give me grace when I make an error toward someone, as my error is the result of operating in the flesh. My flesh and earthly emotions take over until He comforts me and pulls me out of my anger, bitterness, MISUNDERSTANDING (of events surrounding SK leaving, or when a thread falls apart by misunderstanding) and shows me it was His Will all along that we endure this moment of "spiritual warfare" as a refinement for me personally (and to members and mods) to learn patience, kindness, forgiveness, and the greatest one: Love."
Unsealed has a huge history now. It is to me surviving the critics & the mockers...to me it is by God's desire that we are here debating, watching, learning, seeking, challenging our knowledge, gaining wisdom, struggling with our flesh, Walking In Him by practicing faith and grace. We should be surrounding ourselves in Fellowship as the kind of Church we will attain in the next age with our glorified, sinless righteous selves, whose King is finally in charge! Amen!
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Post by grandpaskitzo on Jan 23, 2018 14:49:44 GMT -6
Amen!
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Post by boraddict on Jan 23, 2018 20:29:03 GMT -6
Thank you Barb for those beautiful words. As I was reading your post I remembered Silent saying he needed our prayers. At that time I did not understand what he was going through. I have made that mistake repetitively throughout my life. Not understanding where someone is at in their personal life. A case in point is that years ago I had a beautiful white rabbit. The dog and the rabbit grew up together and one day I saw them playing. However, the rabbit was going under a porch to get away from the dog. I thought they were playing and when I got home my pet rabbit was dead. I need to be more sensitive to others needs. I will keep working on it.
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