A revised view of the pretrib rapture

Lol holy - if you haven't read the board rules please do so here. Really pretty simple to follow. Love one another ... Doing that will easily keep you from any door 

Welcome

Okay now for the identity of the four horsemen of the seals

I think the first horse and rider is the one that people have trouble identifying. The other three are fairly easy. But before we get into it, I want to first talk about their purpose.

The white horse and rider takes freedom from the world
the red horse and rider takes peace from the world
the black horse and rider takes food and sustenance from the world 
the ashen horse and riders take life from the world

But why do they do this? Other than the fact that they are sent out by the Lamb when He removes their seal from the scroll. That is where we need to look at the Old Testament where we see in Zechariah other horses and riders. Zechariah is confronted with a vision of three colored horses and their riders he asks the Lord what they are?

From this passage we see that their purpose is to "patrol the earth". Later in Zechariah 6 we see more colored horses, but this time they are in teams, pulling 4 chariots. The horses were colored Red, black, white and dappled, again Zechariah asks, what they are? He gets an answer:

So here we see that they patrol the earth and those heading north ( the black and white horses) appease the wrath of God. That word "appease" means that they quite God's wrath. 

So we can assume, that the seal horses and riders serve the same function. They are spiritual entities (spirits of heaven) that influence geopolitical events on earth. Much like the "princes" of Persia and Greece in the book of Daniel. (Daniel 10:20) 

Now to the identity of that first rider, we know that he possesses a crown, and a bow and he goes out conquering. His job is to conquer. Typically this is done by nations and their leaders, hence the crown of authority. 

If we look at the fourth seal and riders we get a clue as to the identity of this rider

You will notice that the fourth horsemen's job is to kill, they have authority over one fourth of the earth to carry out their task, but how do they accomplish it? The do it by employing the talents of the other horses and riders-  with the sword, with famine and what's this..... Pestilence and wild beasts??? The word "pestilence" in the Greek means death, so they kill with sword (seal 2) , famine (seal 3), death (seal 4)  and  wait.....wild beasts? Could these wild beasts be related to the first horse and rider? 

I say resoundingly....yes! These are not wild animals of earth, like lions and tigers and bears (oh my!). They are wild beast nations, that go out conquering other peoples and nations. 

Daniel gives us great detail about the "beasts" that will rule over the Jewish people namely Babylon, Media- Persia, Greece and Rome. 

Look at this passage:

here you see the same effects of the seal horses being employed, notice that the word "beast(s)" appears twice, however they are not the same Hebrew word. The first word is 
"chayah" and means "live" it has with its meaning the idea that life is sustained or preserved, the second is the word "bahema" and means "mute" (beasts that cannot speak) this would be actual animals.  So these "wild beasts" devour nations, in order to preserve them? Well yes isn't that what happened to Israel when they went to in Egypt during the famine and were reunited with Joseph? And also in Babylon, etc.... and even today as they are dispersed around the world? Yes these beasts will be used to also bring about death. But remember what their purpose is, to appease God's wrath. Sometimes God has to remove people in order to stay His wrath. 

One day it will not be so:

So the first horse rider is the spiritual entity that influences rulers of the earth to conquer other peoples and nations. 
the Second horse and rider is the spiritual entity that influences nations to war with one another
the third horse and rider is the spiritual entity that influences food production and economies
the fourth horse and riders take life using the effects of the first three, he rides in tandem with the others and singles out those who will perish because of the effects they bring onto the earth.

Could the first rider be responsible for influencing ISIS..... yes,  Iran..... yes. Russia..... yes and on it goes. Throughout time these entities have been granted authority to patrol the earth. They influence events on earth at any given time. Since the day that Jesus was handed the scroll and He assumed the kingdom of God.


RT

5th seal cont'd...

SO let's look at the cry of these martyred souls

They are asking God to avenge them . We know that that is one of the purposes of the 70th week:

Then after they are given their robes (resurrected to receive their regenerated glorified body) they are told to rest a bit longer, until :

Many look at these martyrs and claim that they are in fact the tribulation saints, but that is not what I see. I believe them to be those who are in Christ who have been martyred for their faith in Him throughout the church age. There is nothing in the passage that would indicate that these are those martyred during the tribulation, whereas later John describes those tribulation saints raised to life in clear terms as we shall see in a moment. These fifth seal martyrs are told to wait until their number is completed, their fellow servants and brethren die like they did, as martyrs. How can they be the tribulation saints and also be told that others will die like them? If they were the martyrs from the tribulation then who would follow them to complete their number, wouldn't their number already be completed?

We can see when this completion takes place later in the Revelation when the angel of the waters proclaims how the Lord has exacted His vengeance:

Every time we hear or see something connected to the altar it is concerning an event that is connected to the completion of the martyrs and the exaction of God's vengeance on those who are responsible for their blood.

Revelation 8, just before the trumpets are sounded an angel takes incense from the altar in a censer and adds to it fire and throws it down to earth
Revelation 9, at the sound of the sixth trumpet a voice rises off the altar calling for the release of the four angels bound at the Euphrates, these go on to kill 1/3 of mankind, I                     think that these killed are the tribulation saints, those not killed do not repent. (Laying the foundation for the completion of the martyrs)
Revelation 14, the angel who has power over fire comes out from the altar, calling for the reaper to reap the wicked. (Armageddon)

After this reaping of the wicked, we see in chapter 15;

This is the resurrection of the tribulation saints, which corresponds and is the same event spoken of in Revelation 20:4, their number is now completed. We see here that there is no question that they are those who died as martyrs during the 70th week. The same is true for the passage in Rev. 20. 

Before the reaping we see an angel proclaiming doom for those who worship the beast and take his number. We are told that they will suffer the wrath of God. Then we hear a voice from heaven saying blessed are those who die in the Lord from now on:

What helps those who face death in Christ, persevere? Knowing that they will have rest from their labors, because their deeds are righteous and are what causes them to be clothed in those glorified white robes.  The fifth seal martyrs are told to continue resting, until their number is completed, they entered into their rest when they died and remained souls, and continue to rest in their glorified state while the events of the tribulation unfold and now these others will follow them and die as they did for the testimony of Christ complete their number. Their souls will enter into the place under the altar, until they are resurrected  to join the other saints in the heavenly tabernacle, at the end of the 70th week. 

It is a fact that John uses the Greek word for "out of" - EK interchangeably with the Greek word for "away from"- Apo. John does not always write in the classical and correct form of the Greek. Someone on another thread I visit studied Greek and verified this. Therefore it is not clear which meaning he is implicating here, since he uses the word to mean both things.