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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 20:34:05 GMT -6
the sign is as much about Israel as it is about the church. I agree, totally. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2017 7:15:40 GMT -6
Isaiah 66:7 seems to be a 'key' statement. It's a clear question. So '
who/where else do we see birth 'before'' travail, other than resulting in a death? I I don't see any other thing fitting that except the church. Other than Israel being born in 1947 and then they're travail. But that's a nation and not really a 'people'....
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Post by watchmanjim on Apr 29, 2017 17:47:28 GMT -6
I suspect that the Ezekiel 37 two-sticks will be joined as one at the time of the sign, or just before, or just after. I believe, by one means or another, the ten lost tribes' people will be positively identified--to themselves, and to the world, probably this year. I believe we will find that some of the tribes' people are already living in Israel, or nearby. Others will probably flock in if possible. The 144,000 listed in Revelation show people from all the tribes except Dan. Israel's blessings and prophecies to his sons in Genesis 49 is specifically labeled as pertaining to the "last days."
Gen 49:1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.
Gen 49:2 Gather yourselves together, and hear, ye sons of Jacob; and hearken unto Israel your father.
Is it just me, or is Jacob (even unwittingly) giving verse 2 as a message for what to DO in the last days? Watch what a little change in punctuation and flow would make--just for showing my concept--
And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you. In the last days, gather yourselves together, and hear, ye sons of Jacob; and hearken unto Israel your father.
I'm only suggesting that this may be a part of the prophecy--instructions, particularly, to "gather yourselves together" in relation to all the tribes.
Note: I am not a British-Israelist. Let's just get that out of the way. But I do believe God's tribes are out there, possibly very well dispersed around the globe. The Two-sticks prophecy of Ezekiel 37, coming after the dry bones prophecy, to me looks like a very serious and important key to last days prophecy, especially in regards to the Genesis 48-49 prophesies, and the Deuteronomy prophesies. Isaiah, Hosea, and Ezekiel, also have other passages that indicate that the lost tribes will be returned. I feed all that into the Isaiah 66 passage and the Micah 5 passage.
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Post by gregt on May 2, 2017 8:25:29 GMT -6
I'm only suggesting that this may be a part of the prophecy--instructions, particularly, to "gather yourselves together" in relation to all the tribes. 9/23/17 is Shabbat Shuvah, the Sabbath of return. Micah 5:3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. |
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Post by whatif on May 2, 2017 11:42:58 GMT -6
Good morning, gregt! Shabbat Shuvah--awesome! I also see noted on that day, according to TorahCalendar.com, "Va-Yelech." When I clicked on that term on their webpage, it gave the following information: "Today the Parashah is Va-Yelech which means "And He Went." Va-Yelech was the Parashah on the first Sabbath in the Physical Universe. Moses was 120 years old when he gave us Va-Yelech. It is 120 Jubilee years from Creation until the Messiah's reign."
Source: "Yamin Noraim: Days of Awe," TorahCalender.com, www.torahcalendar.com/Linkpage.asp?D=2&P=52&M=0&S=0&R=0&H=0&U=0&F=0I find the number 120 interesting, as Genesis 6:3 tells us that in the days of Noah, God said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years." |
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Post by Gary on May 2, 2017 12:35:27 GMT -6
I thought I would mention that I don't really hold the position of the Olivet Discourse as I did when I first wrote this thread. Jeff and I have had some deep discussions about this and are in general agreement that the Olivet Discourse is essentially a description of the Tribulation. Matthew 24 even fits the first six seals (in order to boot): www.nowtheendbegins.com/matthew-24-has-all-6-seals-from-revelation/Paul reveals the pre-trib rapture as a "mystery" in 1 Cor. 15. It was already hinted at in the Bible in various places, but had not been fully revealed until Paul received the revelation directly from Christ. I do think there are some hints of the rapture here, but they are vague. For example, "as in the days of Noah" and "as in the days of Lot", I think is speaking to the Day of the LORD as a whole. It will catch all of those not watching off guard. "One taken and the other left", could have multiple layers, one of the rapture and one of the weeds being gathered out at the end, but I think the latter layer is primary, hence the corpses and vultures. This ties then into the Parable of the Virgins in Matt. 25. I used to think that was a warning to the Church, but I tend to think it pertains to the Tribulation and ties in directly with the sheep/goat judgment of Matthew 7 - even the words - "I don't know you". |
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Post by watchmanjim on May 2, 2017 17:46:40 GMT -6
Gary, what you just described is actually the position my parents taught me about the Olivet Discourse--that most of it was involved with the Tribulation itself, and the Second Coming at the end of it.
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Post by findtruth on Jul 4, 2017 10:55:03 GMT -6
I also think that the seals of Rev tie in with the olivet discourse. Example: false Christs tie in with the 1 st seal, the white horse which I believe stands for deception that takes control of the earth.
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Post by danielle on Aug 16, 2017 9:37:50 GMT -6
It is my understanding, that the ones who are taken are killed. Luke17:20-37. Verse 37 sums it up. The same account is given in Matthew but the question of Where? was not written in Matthew. It's Luke's Gospel which sums it up. Verse 37 "Where Lord?" they asked. He replied. "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures gather." This does not sound like the blessed Rapture. It is my understanding, the end time church, the Elect, Shall not pass away until all the end time tribulation events happen. Matthew 24:34 "I tell you the truth this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." Enoch speaks of this generation as the Elect. And it is for the sake of the Elect that the duration of the tribulation time is shortened, else no one would survive.
As in the Days of Noah everyone was corrupted by the Watchers. To survive is to save your soul. All souls will be lost if He does not intervene . Satan want's to make sure there is no chance at salvation. The Watchers went in unto woman, and corrupted the DNA of men that way. The fallen ones have been trying ever since to devise a way through technology. Hence Alien Deception, abductions, testing on animals and humans in labs, all in the name of science. The Rapture I believe is at the last trumpet. First the dead in Christ shall rise. These are those who are taken and beheaded .
One taken and one left behind. The taken are those whom the vultures gather around. Are the vultures birds or the irredeemable? AS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH? Christ speaks of the abomination of desolation, and those who flee for their lives. They are those left behind. THOSE OF US WHO ARE LEFT, THE VULTURES HAVE NOT taken, will be caught up into the heavens to meet the Lord and His Angels. He will gather His Elect from the four corners of the earth into His barn. Then comes the wrath of God and the cleansing fire of His fury. We will be taken because this fire will be the beginning of the new earth. We have to wait in His Barn. When all things are ready we will be resurrected .
Psalm 14:4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge, who eat my people as eating bread and call not upon the Lord.
The Elect, The Last Generation will be the first resurrection. They will dwell with Him on earth for 1000 years then ascend. Revelation 20:4-6 " I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given the power to Judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the Word of God. They had not worshiped the beast and his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.( The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection.
The second death has no power over them, but they will be priest of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years." John sees two groups of people, those given the authority to judge, they are upon thrones and those who were beheaded for their testimony . The ones on the thrones are those who are transformed and caught up into the heavens at the last trumpet. The beheaded are the dead who rise first. This first resurrection Has dominion over the second. The Elect generation, the last generation will be the first resurrection. The first resurrection are those called the Elect. For the first shall be last and the Last shall be first. Rev. 12 Is the sign to signal the onset of all end time prophecy regarding the Bride. It is the last hour of the end days! This generation will see it ALL! AS IN THE DAY OF NOAH!. We are His Bride His Chosen, that is those who do not loose their election, if that were possible. Be not deceived, run your race to win! It is always darkest before the dawn. The nerve shaking part is that we now hear the clock ticking. This alarm, Rev.12 sign. This is the beginning of the tribulation. The deliverance of an immaculate church.
IMMACULATE, Def. without stain or blemish. Now I am not saying we have 7 years left. If I say that then an attempt would be made to set a time for Christ return. We know it is at the door. But, He did say God would shorten those days for the sake of the Elect. Only God knows exact timing. It is given to us only to know the signs of the times. So to sum it up, if there is a pretrb. rapture who is the last generation? Who is this Elect? And what is the Last trumpet for? Oh one more thing, The Barn: St John saw those souls ON THRONES and the souls beheaded In The Barn. Parable of the wheat and weeds is going to unfold.
This does not leave you with a warm fuzzy feeling.
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Post by brad on Aug 16, 2017 11:40:37 GMT -6
It is my understanding, that the ones who are taken are killed. Luke17:20-37. Verse 37 sums it up. The same account is given in Matthew but the question of Where? was not written in Matthew. It's Luke's Gospel which sums it up. Verse 37 "Where Lord?" they asked. He replied. "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures gather." This does not sound like the blessed Rapture. It is my understanding, the end time church, the Elect, Shall not pass away until all the end time tribulation events happen. Matthew 24:34 "I tell you the truth this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." Enoch speaks of this generation as the Elect. And it is for the sake of the Elect that the duration of the tribulation time is shortened, else no one would survive. As in the Days of Noah everyone was corrupted by the Watchers. To survive is to save your soul. All souls will be lost if He does not intervene . Satan want's to make sure there is no chance at salvation. The Watchers went in unto woman, and corrupted the DNA of men that way. The fallen ones have been trying ever since to devise a way through technology. Hence Alien Deception, abductions, testing on animals and humans in labs, all in the name of science. The Rapture I believe is at the last trumpet. First the dead in Christ shall rise. These are those who are taken and beheaded . One taken and one left behind. The taken are those whom the vultures have eaten. Are the vultures birds or the irredeemable? AS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH? Christ speaks of the abomination of desolation, and those who flee for their lives. They are those left behind. THOSE OF US WHO ARE LEFT, THE VULTURES HAVE NOT EATEN, will be caught up into the heavens to meet the Lord and His Angels. He will gather His Elect from the four corners of the earth into His barn. Then comes the wrath of God and the cleansing fire of His fury. We will be taken because this fire will be the beginning of the new earth. We have to wait in His Barn. When all things are ready we will be resurrected . The Elect, The Last Generation will be the first resurrection. They will dwell with Him on earth for 1000 years then ascend. Revelation 20:4-6 " I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given the power to Judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the Word of God. They had not worshiped the beast and his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reined with Christ a thousand years.( The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priest of God and of Christ and will rein with Him for a thousand years." John sees two groups of people, those given the authority to judge, they are upon thrones and those who were beheaded for their testimony . The ones on the thrones are those who are transformed and caught up into the heavens at the last trumpet. The beheaded are the dead who rise first. This first resurrection Has dominion over the second. The Elect generation, the last generation will be the first resurrection. The first resurrection are those called the Elect. For the first shall be last and the Last shall be first. Rev. 12 Is the sign to signal the onset of all of this. It is the last hour of the end days! This generation will see it ALL! AS IN THE DAY OF NOAH!. We are His Bride His Chosen, that is those who do not loose their election, if that were possible. Be not deceived, run your race to win! It is always darkest before the dawn. The nerve shaking part is that we now hear the clock ticking. This alarm, Rev.12 sign. This is the beginning of the tribulation. The deliverance of an immaculate church. IMMACULATE, Def. without stain or blemish. Now I am not saying we have 7 years left. If I say that then an attempt would be made to set a time for Christ return. We know it is at the door. But, He did say God would shorten those days for the sake of the Elect. Only God knows exact timing. It is given to us only to know the signs of the times. So to sum it up, if there is a pretrb. rapture who is the last generation? Who is this Elect? And what is the Last trumpet for? Oh one more thing, The Barn: St John saw those souls ON THRONES and the souls beheaded In The Barn. Parable of the wheat and weeds is going to unfold. Danielle, In a normal conversation, people present their own opinions and then listen to the other's opinions. I do not see any of this coming from you at all... Just "one giant data dump" after another making huge claims that most of us simply do not agree with. I would be more likely to actually try to understand your thoughts if you would take time to attempt to prove what you say. I know this sounds harsh, but time is so very short... I encourage you to consider that it might be a great time to ask yourself..."why do I believe what I believe"... Just saying I do not get a warm fuzzy feeling when I read your posts.... Abandon your own understandings and put your entire faith and trust in the only one who can save you... JESUS! |
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 16, 2017 12:34:04 GMT -6
Hey guys, let's take care here. Brad is right about a couple things for sure. One, we need to have a kind gracious attitude toward all, even when we disagree with them. Also Danielle, it is pretty difficult to have a constructive conversation when you put out so much content all at once without breaking it into smaller bits for us to digest. Personally, I have a hard time even reading through your posts because they are so compact and there are so many different things presented in a single paragraph.
For all of us, please be kind one to another. Our attitude here is to love and help each other. We can disagree about things without becoming angry with each other.
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Post by brad on Aug 16, 2017 13:38:57 GMT -6
Well said Watchmanjim.... including the part about loving and helping each other which clearly I was not doing well. ... Danielle, Let me formally apologize for my rant.
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Post by whatif on Aug 16, 2017 14:45:00 GMT -6
Thank you, brad, for apologizing!
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Post by whatif on Aug 16, 2017 14:50:24 GMT -6
The nerve shaking part is that we now hear the clock ticking. This alarm, Rev.12 sign. This is the beginning of the tribulation. You may be right, danielle! We are soon going to find out if that is the case! While I'm certainly hoping for a pre-trib rapture of the Church, I know that there are possibilities that we will see a mid-trib or a post-trib. In whichever event we find ourselves in, may the Holy Spirit be with us to guide us, protect us, and provide for us peace in times of trouble. |
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Post by danielle on Aug 16, 2017 17:11:26 GMT -6
It is my understanding, that the ones who are taken are killed. Luke17:20-37. Verse 37 sums it up. The same account is given in Matthew but the question of Where? was not written in Matthew. It's Luke's Gospel which sums it up. Verse 37 "Where Lord?" they asked. He replied. "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures gather." This does not sound like the blessed Rapture. It is my understanding, the end time church, the Elect, Shall not pass away until all the end time tribulation events happen. Matthew 24:34 "I tell you the truth this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." Enoch speaks of this generation as the Elect. And it is for the sake of the Elect that the duration of the tribulation time is shortened, else no one would survive. As in the Days of Noah everyone was corrupted by the Watchers. To survive is to save your soul. All souls will be lost if He does not intervene . Satan want's to make sure there is no chance at salvation. The Watchers went in unto woman, and corrupted the DNA of men that way. The fallen ones have been trying ever since to devise a way through technology. Hence Alien Deception, abductions, testing on animals and humans in labs, all in the name of science. The Rapture I believe is at the last trumpet. First the dead in Christ shall rise. These are those who are taken and beheaded . One taken and one left behind. The taken are those whom the vultures have eaten. Are the vultures birds or the irredeemable? AS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH? Christ speaks of the abomination of desolation, and those who flee for their lives. They are those left behind. THOSE OF US WHO ARE LEFT, THE VULTURES HAVE NOT EATEN, will be caught up into the heavens to meet the Lord and His Angels. He will gather His Elect from the four corners of the earth into His barn. Then comes the wrath of God and the cleansing fire of His fury. We will be taken because this fire will be the beginning of the new earth. We have to wait in His Barn. When all things are ready we will be resurrected . The Elect, The Last Generation will be the first resurrection. They will dwell with Him on earth for 1000 years then ascend. Revelation 20:4-6 " I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given the power to Judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the Word of God. They had not worshiped the beast and his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reined with Christ a thousand years.( The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years ended.) This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priest of God and of Christ and will rein with Him for a thousand years." John sees two groups of people, those given the authority to judge, they are upon thrones and those who were beheaded for their testimony . The ones on the thrones are those who are transformed and caught up into the heavens at the last trumpet. The beheaded are the dead who rise first. This first resurrection Has dominion over the second. The Elect generation, the last generation will be the first resurrection. The first resurrection are those called the Elect. For the first shall be last and the Last shall be first. Rev. 12 Is the sign to signal the onset of all of this. It is the last hour of the end days! This generation will see it ALL! AS IN THE DAY OF NOAH!. We are His Bride His Chosen, that is those who do not loose their election, if that were possible. Be not deceived, run your race to win! It is always darkest before the dawn. The nerve shaking part is that we now hear the clock ticking. This alarm, Rev.12 sign. This is the beginning of the tribulation. The deliverance of an immaculate church. IMMACULATE, Def. without stain or blemish. Now I am not saying we have 7 years left. If I say that then an attempt would be made to set a time for Christ return. We know it is at the door. But, He did say God would shorten those days for the sake of the Elect. Only God knows exact timing. It is given to us only to know the signs of the times. So to sum it up, if there is a pretrb. rapture who is the last generation? Who is this Elect? And what is the Last trumpet for? Oh one more thing, The Barn: St John saw those souls ON THRONES and the souls beheaded In The Barn. Parable of the wheat and weeds is going to unfold. Danielle, In a normal conversation, people present their own opinions and then listen to the other's opinions. I do not see any of this coming from you at all... Just "one giant data dump" after another making huge claims that most of us simply do not agree with. I would be more likely to actually try to understand your thoughts if you would take time to attempt to prove what you say. I know this sounds harsh, but time is so very short... I encourage you to consider that it might be a great time to ask yourself..."why do I believe what I believe"... Just saying I do not get a warm fuzzy feeling when I read your posts.... Abandon your own understandings and put your entire faith and trust in the only one who can save you... JESUS! |
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