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Post by danielle on Aug 16, 2017 22:11:39 GMT -6
Hey guys, let's take care here. Brad is right about a couple things for sure. One, we need to have a kind gracious attitude toward all, even when we disagree with them. Also Danielle, it is pretty difficult to have a constructive conversation when you put out so much content all at once without breaking it into smaller bits for us to digest. Personally, I have a hard time even reading through your posts because they are so compact and there are so many different things presented in a single paragraph. For all of us, please be kind one to another. Our attitude here is to love and help each other. We can disagree about things without becoming angry with each other. Well I have a lot to say. I suggest read slowly. If you disagree show me where, use scripture preferably the scriptural verses in dispute, that is admonishment. I will read your post carefully and add to my faith the truth you deliver. I may not make a comment straight away. I love truth. That is all I am seeking. This is an open forum for debate and discussion Right? Popular opinion doesn't always rule Right? Intelligent debate and the proposal of ideas is what makes us more the wiser. And if not for the challenges of life, our faith would only be skin deep. For challenges and obstacles once conquered make us greater and bring us closer to completion. If you find what I say challenging then meet the challenge. Don't just scream YOUR WRONG! Like many do on this forum. Argue your case, use scripture and know, the Truth always prevails. The best way to know you spoke a truth is when scripture supports it. Correct a wise man and they become wiser. Correct a fool and you receive their spurn and reproach. Book of Wisdom. I use scripture to state my case or refute. Most here just flip out. How dare I have an opposing understanding. Yet know one tells me where I am wrong. Not Cool. |
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Post by watchmanjim on Aug 16, 2017 23:28:26 GMT -6
It's humility and grace we need to maintain here. EVERY person who comes here must accept that (while we surely agree on some basics, like that the Bible is unfailingly true, given to us by God) that their own personal understandings may NOT be correct.
I for one, understand that my own personal understandings may not be correct. So I have to be prepared to change my views if they are wrong. This only works if we are humble.
So I remind everyone, please be humble and gracious, and realize you may not be right about everything you believe. That include you, Danielle.
You said "Yet know one tells me where I am wrong. Not Cool."
It's not ABOUT being right and wrong. It's about knowing and loving God and being properly related to Him. As we improve in this, the most important aspect of life, we will then be able to add to our faith and our virtue KNOWLEDGE. None of us have perfect knowledge. We are all trying to learn together.
But one of the most important things for us to learn is something that is very much lacking in our world today-- we must learn to love God and love each other properly, in humility and grace. If we can do that, it will make a proper environment for us to learn other facts, truths, skills, and insights.
Jim
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Post by danielle on Aug 17, 2017 7:44:47 GMT -6
It's humility and grace we need to maintain here. EVERY person who comes here must accept that (while we surely agree on some basics, like that the Bible is unfailingly true, given to us by God) that their own personal understandings may NOT be correct. I for one, understand that my own personal understandings may not be correct. So I have to be prepared to change my views if they are wrong. This only works if we are humble. So I remind everyone, please be humble and gracious, and realize you may not be right about everything you believe. That include you, Danielle. You said "Yet know one tells me where I am wrong. Not Cool." It's not ABOUT being right and wrong. It's about knowing and loving God and being properly related to Him. As we improve in this, the most important aspect of life, we will then be able to add to our faith and our virtue KNOWLEDGE. None of us have perfect knowledge. We are all trying to learn together. But one of the most important things for us to learn is something that is very much lacking in our world today-- we must learn to love God and love each other properly, in humility and grace. If we can do that, it will make a proper environment for us to learn other facts, truths, skills, and insights. Jim |
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Post by danielle on Aug 17, 2017 8:06:55 GMT -6
watchermanjim: I hear what you are saying. And I am always humble before my God. It is I, who gave an alternative interp. of pretrib rapture. It is I, who received back lash. You seem to forget that. I do not claim to know everything. One thing I know though; interpretation of scripture is only given by the Holy Spirit, so, IT IS ABOUT BEING RIGHT OR WRONG. I see in your reply you imply I must learn to love others and God properly. I'm sure you are directing this to everyone. I will reiterate, I RECEIVED THE BACKLASH. What was improper about the love I conveyed? All that I do is a LABOR of love.God Bless and may the Peace of Christ settle your heart.
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Post by whatif on Aug 17, 2017 11:50:28 GMT -6
Danielle, we love you. Please let it go. Forgive... Forget... and let's move onward together. All of us on a new foot.
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Post by rt on Aug 18, 2017 22:08:43 GMT -6
(sorry for the length of this post, but I got on a roll and just had to keep going  ) So here is a question: we know from the passage in Luke that one is taken and one is left, and that the disciples ask where? Is their question asking where is the one taken or where is the one left? The answer to the question is where the body is, is also where the vultures gather. By the way the Greek word translated as "vulture" is actually the word that means "eagle". Now here's something else I found interesting, the word in Luke for "body" in the Greek is σῶμα [soma /so·mah/], this word is used 146 times in the New Testament and never in its use does it refer to a dead body. This word according to Strong's means: This word comes from the root word ἐκσῴζω, σῴζω [sozo /sode·zo/] which means: however the word used in Matthew, which is translated as "corpse" is πτῶμα [ptoma /pto·mah/] , it is used exclusively in the New Testament to refer to a dead body, it means: This word is derived from πίπτω, συμπίπτω [pipto /pip·to/] which means: I find it very curious that the two accounts where the phrase is used have different Greek words to describe either a corpse or a body. The word in Luke can mean either a dead or living body, but the gist of the word is more positive leaning more toward a salvation from judgement, while the use of the word "corpse" in Matthew has a negative connotation leaning more toward judgement. Could the passage in Luke be addressing those who are taken to be saved, while the passage in Matthew addresses those who will be left for judgement? This then begs the question what is the significance of the "vultures" or as the word in Greek says; "eagles" So the only other times this Greek word is used in scripture is in the Revelation So what exactly are the "eagles" in Luke and Matthew? Are they simply earthly birds or could they be some divine creatures? Pretty consistently throughout the Old Testament, when the word "eagle is used, it is usually in regards to its flight, its ability to swoop and carry, its strength and its speed in flight. The other reference is in regards to the height at which it builds its nest. There are passages that talk about how it swoops in to catch its prey, but none that talk about it feeding on dead corpses. I don't really know what any of this means, just noticing these things in scripture and thought I would throw it out there for your consideration. Thoughts??? |
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Post by whatif on Aug 18, 2017 22:32:31 GMT -6
Is it possible it is referring to the body of Christ (the Church) being caught up to meet the Lord in the air (the heights where the eagles fly)?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2017 22:39:16 GMT -6
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Post by whatif on Aug 19, 2017 0:04:31 GMT -6
That's an awesome article, sam!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2017 0:18:37 GMT -6
Thanks Whatif....Nelson is pre-wrath, as I am, and is a wonderful believer! I realize there are differing views on the rapture, and I do not focus on that in my teaching.....we can all learn from each other!
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Post by whatif on Aug 19, 2017 0:35:33 GMT -6
I agree, sam!
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Post by rt on Aug 19, 2017 9:41:47 GMT -6
Yes he certainly does seem to see the same things I see. I especially like this bit: Though I do not necessarily believe that the angels do the gathering, I believe Jesus Himself does. But the idea that the angels are present, and will themselves be gathered for this event makes sense. |
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Post by rt on Aug 19, 2017 9:44:07 GMT -6
Also want to point out that the Matthew passage does not show the disciples asking the question "where ?".
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Post by truthseeker on Sept 6, 2017 23:02:34 GMT -6
I
Some guys at Dallas Theological Seminary pointed out specifically that in the Rapture, the Lord HIMSELF gathers us:
In 1 Thess
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Where in the 2nd coming, the wicked are gathered by the angels.as in the wheat and the tares.
I find that the 'two weddings of Jacob' theory fits nicely into the pattern of pre-trib Rapture by Christ and the Rev 14 gathering by Christ, followed by a reaping of the wicked by the angels.
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Post by stormyknight on Sept 20, 2017 11:18:47 GMT -6
This has all been so enlightening. Thank you all for sharing your wisdom and knowledge. I wanted to tell you all something that has been happening though. What with the "no one knows the hour or the day" thing, and I am pretty convinced now that the Father does show us the season, down to "almost" the day, so to speak. I was even eagerly hoping that the rapture would happen during a safety meeting that I have coming up this Friday! Wouldn't that be great if ole stormy disappeared while all the guys were doing their lineman thing? I was dreaming, I know. Anyway, for the past year, maybe couple of years, with increasing frequency, my wife has been seeing the numbers 24 and 42. Seeing the clock at 7:42 or 7:24 or whatever:24 etc, on and on. She had prayed and prayed about this with no answer. It wasn't until recently, a couple of weeks ago that she thinks she got her answer. She doesn't know why she never looked there before because she has looked all through the Scriptures at verses with 24's and 42's. But it was like the Father said "Look Right Here" and she looked at Matthew 24:42 (who'd have thought, right?) "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come." This is right after Jesus tells of the 'two in the field, one left, one taken' etc.. So after that, when I read all these differing opinions about the sign and when the rapture could happen, maybe this weekend, maybe next, I just remember it comes down even to the very hour, even the very minute. We don't know, so don't worry about it, just watch. And I find comfort in that. What I actually find myself doing, knowing that it is coming so very soon, how will it happen? Will I start to glow? Will I just zip up through the ceiling? Will I 'feel' an energy burst? I have so many questions.
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