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Post by rt on Sept 2, 2017 22:26:46 GMT -6
I would reiterate that the current practice on Rosh Hoshanna is not the biblically mandated practice. You can read here for more information: www.haaretz.com/jewish/features/.premium-1.615883Most of the current practice comes from the Mishnah and the Talmud, the Mishnah was a collection of writings about oral law that was published nearly 2 centuries after Christ, it is part of the Talmud, which includes oral traditions and legends as well. These were traditions of men, remember what Jesus thought of the religious leaders of His day? He called them hypocrites! So should we trust that these oral traditions and laws reflect how God intended the feasts to be observed? Should we look to what the Jewish sages wrote in their books as a means to interpret how prophecy may be fulfilled, rather than to look at what God wrote in His book? Many well meaning Christians do exactly that, looking to make connections to the feasts that aren't necessarily there. I am not suggesting that there is no prophetic connection to the feasts, I believe that there is. But only in what God says about them and not what some Rabbi or Christ deniers thought who lived 200 years after Christ. |
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Post by watchmanjim on Sept 3, 2017 21:57:51 GMT -6
All you said is a point well taken, rt. I still hold out that in some end times prophesies, God does point to even the improper Jewish worship of Himself (ie, the building of the third temple and the sacrifices, etc.) as relevant points of prophecy, even if they are not correctly administered. But---we'll find out shortly.  |
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Post by michael on Sept 3, 2017 23:13:30 GMT -6
I am a Messianic Gentile working to remove the wall of seperation between Jew and Gentile and extend the right hand of fellowship to the those who by Yeshuas great grace which we have been grafted into and have become partakers of His salvation. Next month I celebrate my 43 year of walking with the King of Kings. For over a decade now many bible scholars such as Dr. Garr founder of the Hebraic Christian Global community, Dr. Booker of Sounds of the Trumpet, Avram Yeshasoah of The seed of Abraham to name just a few who are working to educate the Christian church as to the Hebraic roots of the Christian faith. Within the 1st century of the New Testament church antisemitisum entered the church along with Roman, Greek and Latin influences they not only seperate themselves from the Jewish believers but persecuted them beyond measure. We must remember the scriptures were written by Jews, Jesus was born a Jew, died a Jew and will return a Jew. All early believers were Jews. Jesus originally came to the "lost sheep of Israel". One of the reasons salvation was extended to us Gentiles was to make Israel jealous. To turn from Gods people, to not seek reconciliation, to not show them Yeshua is their Messuah is perhaps the greatest antisemitisum of all. Concerning the feasts. I am convinced that Yeshua will return during Rosh Hashanah (Feast of Trumpets). Do not be too quick to discount the 7 feasts of "the Lord". Jesus kept all the feasts as did the Apostiles and all the early believers until the Bishop of Rome and Constantine seeking to distance themselves from the Hewish believers forbid the celebrations along with the Sabbath. The Messiah is revealed in all the seven feasts 3 He fulfilled on His first coming, Pentecost was fufulled at the coming of the Ruach HaKadosh (Holy Spirit) in Acts 2 and the last 3 will be fulfilled upon His return. For those interested Sam Nadler wrote a good book on the subject : Messiah in the feasts of Israel. Sept/Oct (Tishre) are when the feasts of Trumpets, Day of Attonnent and Tabernacles (Booths) are celebrated.
The more you understand the feasts of the Lord (they are all about Him) the deeper your understanding will be concerning His first coming and His 2nd coming. Gods work of restoration revolve around the feasts of the Lord. He's coming quickly. "And the Spirit and the Bride say, come quickly Lord Jesus.
Shalom..
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Post by watchmanjim on Sept 3, 2017 23:41:06 GMT -6
Shalom, welcome, michael! I think you'll be glad to know we don't allow antisemitism around here. Glad you could join in the discussion. It is a good point you bring up about educating gentile believers regarding the Hebrew/Jewish/Israelite roots of the Bible and of Jesus/Yeshua Himself. I certainly did not know much about Jewish feasts until recently, though we did learn a bit about the Passover, the rest was largely ignored in my churches. Understanding the Torah, the feasts, and the Jewish/Israelite customs is extremely beneficial to understanding prophecy. Various ones of us may debate as to what it all means, and how significant different parts of it are, but it surely is significant. |
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Post by whatif on Sept 4, 2017 9:16:34 GMT -6
Good morning, michael, and welcome to the forum! It is a pleasure to meet you!
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Post by disciple4life on Sept 7, 2017 17:43:35 GMT -6
I'm not well versed on the feasts but a question comes to mind so I wonder if anyone has some insight on this, perhaps SK does? Why were the feasts fulfilled the way they were? Why the spring feasts but not the fall? I understand the Passover feast had to be fulfilled when it was. Why wasnt Trumpets or Sukkot fulfilled at the Lords birth? I could probably research this but hey, it would take a long time to learn what some of you already know Hello Captain Mike. You have a lot of great insight that I try to glean - so I'm not saying this an argument, but it's what I've heard and read and it seems to all fit with scripture. Maybe it can give some clarity. The first four "Spring Feasts" are so called because they start in the spring of each year and are in Chronological order. Passover Feast of Unleavened Bread First Fruits Feast of Weeks - Pentecost Then we have a gap in the calendar year, and this gap in history is the current church age. The Fall Feasts are all considered Prophetic, because they are yet to be fulfilled. - These fall feasts are all linked with End Times. Paul said that the feasts are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is Christ - linking all the feasts directly to the Messiah. Here's the cool part - The Spring Feasts all pointed forward to the Messiah, His first Advent and his work. These 4 were fulfilled by Christ in perfect order and in perfect precision - on the precise day. Not a few days before or after. - Christ was crucified at twilight at exactly the same time the Passover lamb was being slain in the temple and became our Passover Lamb. - He was buried on Feast of Unleavened Bread. Leaven is a picture of sin and he was sinless, spotless lamb. - The next day after the Sabbath is First Fruits and Christ rose on First Fruits to be the First Fruits. "But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep." 1 Cor 15:20 - The very next one in chronological order is Feast of Trumpets/ Yom Teruah - which the word literally means 'shout'. Aside from Feast of Trumpets it is referred to as the Day of Shouts/shouting. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together [Harpazo, Latin rapturo ] with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
For thousands of years non-Christian Jews have understood this to be the birth of humanity - the day Adam an Eve were created. One of the themes understood by Jews today is coronation of the King. Another big theme is the theme of a wedding. In Hebrew weddings, the bridegroom comes with blasts of trumpets to announce his arrival. Then bride and groom are concealed away in the bridechamber for 7 days. Hmm.
One of the strongest links and connections of Feast of Trumpets to the rapture is that for centuries, Jews have understood that the resurrection of the dead will be at Feast of Trumpets. This is even recorded in the Talmud - Jewish commentary to the Torah, and believed to be the very oral teaching that God spoke to Abraham. Get this - Between Feast of Trumpets and Day of Atonement is exactly 7 days.!! From the beginning of Feast of Trumpets to Day of Atonement is 10 days of Awe. In this span, there is only one Sabbath. This year, this high Sabbath starts at Friday at sundown, and ends Saturday the 23rd, and it is Shabbat Shuva - which means "return." Same day as Sept alignment. !! wow. Exactly 40 days from the eclipse to Day of Atonement. 40 is the number of testing all through scripture. The Feast of Booths is connected to the millennial reign, when he dwells among us.
There is strong scriptural and circumstantial evidence that Christ was born on Feast of Booths, Sukkot. Based on Zechariah's temple rotation, it puts John the Baptist born at Passover. Jesus was conceived six months later - at/near Hannuka, Feast of Lights, and born 9 months later at Sukkot. John 1 says "The word became flesh and 'tabernacled' among us", and Sukkot is known as the Feast for all Nations. Angels said "I bring you good tidings of Joy for all nations." One theory is that Sukkot is like bookends - fulfilled at his birth and fulfilled at the end of the age, when all nations - Jews and Gentiles will celebrate Feast of Booths/ Sukkot. Zechariah 14:16
Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. . . . This will be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.
The feasts are inseparably linked to Christ, his death, burial, resurrection, and return. They are "moadim" appointed times and are given as signs. Maranatha.
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Post by disciple4life on Sept 10, 2017 9:15:56 GMT -6
I am a Messianic Gentile working to remove the wall of seperation between Jew and Gentile and extend the right hand of fellowship to the those who by Yeshuas great grace which we have been grafted into and have become partakers of His salvation. Next month I celebrate my 43 year of walking with the King of Kings. For over a decade now many bible scholars such as Dr. Garr founder of the Hebraic Christian Global community, Dr. Booker of Sounds of the Trumpet, Avram Yeshasoah of The seed of Abraham to name just a few who are working to educate the Christian church as to the Hebraic roots of the Christian faith. Within the 1st century of the New Testament church antisemitisum entered the church along with Roman, Greek and Latin influences they not only seperate themselves from the Jewish believers but persecuted them beyond measure. We must remember the scriptures were written by Jews, Jesus was born a Jew, died a Jew and will return a Jew. All early believers were Jews. Jesus originally came to the "lost sheep of Israel". One of the reasons salvation was extended to us Gentiles was to make Israel jealous. To turn from Gods people, to not seek reconciliation, to not show them Yeshua is their Messuah is perhaps the greatest antisemitisum of all. Concerning the feasts. I am convinced that Yeshua will return during Rosh Hashanah (Feast of Trumpets). Do not be too quick to discount the 7 feasts of "the Lord". Jesus kept all the feasts as did the Apostiles and all the early believers until the Bishop of Rome and Constantine seeking to distance themselves from the Hewish believers forbid the celebrations along with the Sabbath. The Messiah is revealed in all the seven feasts 3 He fulfilled on His first coming, Pentecost was fufulled at the coming of the Ruach HaKadosh (Holy Spirit) in Acts 2 and the last 3 will be fulfilled upon His return. For those interested Sam Nadler wrote a good book on the subject : Messiah in the feasts of Israel. Sept/Oct (Tishre) are when the feasts of Trumpets, Day of Attonnent and Tabernacles (Booths) are celebrated. The more you understand the feasts of the Lord (they are all about Him) the deeper your understanding will be concerning His first coming and His 2nd coming. Gods work of restoration revolve around the feasts of the Lord. He's coming quickly. "And the Spirit and the Bride say, come quickly Lord Jesus. Shalom..Hello Michael and welcome to the forum. ! The post was great, by the way. I agree - spot on - regarding the importance of our Hebrew roots. Some people are firmly convinced that the upcoming Sept alignment is the perfect fulfillment of Rev 12, and others feel very strongly about numbers and place huge importance in these (which is totally OK) but I am with you - and firmly believe that the Feasts are inseparably linked to the Messiah - his birth, death, burial, resurrection and also the rapture, second coming and millennium. How else would we provoke the Jews through jealousy. The other thing often missed by Christians and prophecy teachers is that Zechar says that at the end of the age, all nations Jews and Gentiles will celebrate Feast of Booths. Sukkot. |
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Post by Rick on Sept 16, 2017 23:36:46 GMT -6
The Shofar Sounding On The Year of Jubilee.... Here is a great video done by Steven Ben DeNoon
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Post by disciple4life on Sept 17, 2017 16:22:30 GMT -6
Whoa! Look at this! The Exact same thing happened at the 2nd Temple dedication ceremony on Feast of Trumpets! Ezra 3: 1 And when the seventh month had come, and the children of Israel were in the cities, the people gathered together as one man to Jerusalem. . . . 10 When the builders laid the foundation of the temple of the Lord, the priests stood in their apparel with trumpets, and the Levites, the sons of Asaph, with cymbals, to praise the Lord, according to the ordinance of David king of Israel. 11 And they sang responsively, praising and giving thanks to the Lord: “ For He is good,
For His mercy endures forever toward Israel.” Then all the people shouted with a great shout, when they praised the Lord, because the foundation of the house of the Lord was laid. . . . 6 From the first day of the seventh month they began to offer burnt offerings to the Lord, Hello uscgvet, Thanks for the Awesome post. This passage from Ezra 3 is black and white, explicitly clear. We have the words saying on the first day of the seventh month, (Tishri) but we also have the huge clue - "Then all the people shouted with a great shout." Yom Teruah means blast or literally "Shout". Notice how 1 Thes 4:16-17, Harpazo passage includes a shout, and also 1 Cor 15:51-52, Shout, Last Trumpet. ;-) Hmmm. The first post about the temple (I think the passage was from 1 Chron. ??) It could be, but then it could also be Day of Atonement. There are only two feasts that have trumpets - and both of these feasts are in the seventh month. There are no trumpets with Feast of Tabernacles. But this is very very interesting, and like Gary said, it is certainly worthy of more study. I really hope you or someone can find another piece as this wedding connection is huge. HUGE. Please let me know if you or someone else finds another piece that could shed more light on this possible link. Blessings - Disciple4life - Loren O.
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Post by rt on Sept 18, 2017 7:31:46 GMT -6
Diciple4life, you are incorrect. The trumpets were sounded at every feast. In fact the last trumpet to sound in the year would have been on the last day of the feast of tabernacles.
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Post by uscgvet on Sept 18, 2017 7:50:13 GMT -6
Diciple4life, you are incorrect. The trumpets were sounded at every feast. In fact the last trumpet to sound in the year would have been on the last day of the feast of tabernacles. Yep, I agree, somehow I placed the Trumpets/Shouting verse above verse 6 in that post. That was a mistake, I apologize for the confusion there. The shouting occurred during the Feast of Tabernacles, not trumpets day. From what we read in Nehemiah 8, the 1st day of the 7th month was quite a sad atmosphere. People were grieving... because of the law that was being read out to them. But! We don't know if Trumpets were used to gather the assembly. Numbers states that trumpets are used for such purposes. None of us were actually there that day. And the writers didn't pen anything about blowing trumpets on the first day. I mean they most likely kept the Leviticus 23:24 law about blowing trumpets on the Feast of Trumpets. Or Numbers 10:2 reference to gather the assembly using trumpets... I would even guess that people were happy and joyous and shouting up until the point that the law was read to the people... then all their happy faces turn to sad faces...LOL ... WHAT??? No adultery?? No stealing??? What did we get ourselves into... DOH! |
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Post by barbiosheepgirl on Sept 18, 2017 9:03:57 GMT -6
I looked at the lunar cycle calandar for September. I ask this for clarity, for the record kind of stuff: The moon will be 2% visible on the 21st, 6% visible on the 22nd, 12% visible on the 23rd... Since the new day starts at sunset for Israel (the blowing of the trumpet at the first indication there is a sliver of moon), would be the sunset on the 20th, or sunset on the 21st, or on the 22nd, is that correct? I am looking at the lunar calendar here: www.calendar-12.com/moon_calendar/2017/septemberFor those of us in the US, this is 7-10 hours earlier in the day on those days...am I correct? I highly doubt that 2% of the moon can be seen, but can 6% of the moon be seen at twilight as the day ends? For sure they must see the 12% as the sunsets on the 22nd. This could mean the Great Gathering to happen during the late morning on the 22nd on State-side...am I correct? This makes it Friday late morning over here in America.. The lunar calendar makes it appear that it can be seen at 6%... Thoughts? Of course I am date-bracketing even up to the hour, so there! Unless of course the Rapture is a random event, having nothing to do with the Feasts... (but there is just too much in God's Word IMHO that the Rapture can't happen outside this first Fall Feast..) |
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Post by Natalie on Sept 18, 2017 14:00:16 GMT -6
I answered a little bit in the shoutbox, but renewedmoon.com/ is a website for checking on when the moon is sighted. They are expecting it to be sighted on the evening of the 21st. However, God can alter atmospheric conditions making it not visible until the 22nd, which would then put the sign and the FOT on the same day (Hebrew calendar day). Also, playing with Stellarium, the sun and moon are pretty near each other on the 21st. I don't know how that would affect viewing. They are much farther apart on the 22nd and the moon would definitely be able to be seen. |
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Post by watchmanjim on Sept 19, 2017 10:07:36 GMT -6
I have a funny feeling that another piece of prophetic evidence is the day=1,000 years concept. IF this matters in this case, I would remind you that we are getting ready to see the last 7 years of the 6th millenium. That means that 7 years before sunset (and the beginning of the new 1,000 year day) this event occurrs that we call the Rapture--our Lord gathering us in the clouds. SO. If it matters, it would seem to me a likelihood that our Lord would be most likely to return just before sunset on the sixth day of the actual 7-day week in symbolism of what lies ahead. Perhaps 7 minutes before sunset in Jerusalem. If so, we could extrapolate that out to our own timezones. I believe that would be right before sunset on Friday in Jerusalem.
However, I'm not in any way sure of that concept. So back to "wait and see."
Meanwhile, my cubs and I are preparing treasure time capsules to bury in our yard, with clues of Bible verses and Christian ichthis fish pointing the way to the buried treasure--some various goodies including seeds to plant a garden, Bibles, tools, first aid kit, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 10:19:23 GMT -6
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