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Post by cwood85 on Mar 5, 2019 13:02:25 GMT -6
As I was looking at the posts I considered Revelation 17:8 and that it is a riddle the answer of which is in the verses that follow. That is, the angel gives the riddle (v. 17:8) and then he explains the riddle (vv. 17:9-18). Yes, good point, however, no where in the answer to the riddle does the angel address "those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world". Revelation 13:8 says pretty much the same thing without a riddle being posed: But perhaps I am missing the forest for the trees so to speak, the point the passage is making is that those who are not written in the book of life, those who are unrepentant - those who are not numbered among the saints- all of the unsaved who reside on earth at the time <<< This not happening at one time nor a future time, this is happening all the time. The beast have 5 kings/kingdoms that have already fallen, meaning before Johns time and the writing of Revelation. People worshipped those 5 kings that made up the beast before Johns time. will worship the beast. It marks a turning point, up until this point repentance is possible, but once one worships the beast, taking his Mark, repentance is no longer possible. There is a clear distinction between the saints and everyone else. There are no more potential saints, no more opportunity for salvation. <<<< That is not said at all in any of the passages being studied here. What is said however in the following verses is this:
14They (the beast that the whore rides, all 8 plus the 10 horns) will make war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will triumph over them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and He will be accompanied by His called and chosen and faithful ones.”
Christ is triumphant, not the beast or MB.
Once they pledge allegiance to the beast and take the Mark, they are blotted out. Unlike those who lived before this point in time, whose names may not be erased until their death, because they have opportunity to repent while they yet breath air on earth up until the moment they die. Instead these beast followers have their names blotted out before they physically die? There is no hope of repentance for them once they receive the mark. Could this be the answer to why their names don't appear in the book of life? Lets look at a scenario for what is currently proposed as the mark of the beast and the result of one who takes the mark and see if it aligns with Gods character given in the rest of scriptures.
An unbelieving woman takes the mark who cares for her elderly unbelieving parents. It is the only way now that they can get food and the medications her parents need to live. She takes the mark for her parents so they can receive food, medications and the care that they need. What if this was for her children? Would God eternally punish someone for taking the mark to care for their family?!? The beast consist of kingdoms over generations, not all future. The beast existed before John, Mystery Babylon existed before John was given the Revelation. The beast in chapter 17 is the same as in chapter 13. Chapter 13 goes into more detail of the beast. Mystery Babylon is destroyed and no longer has control over the beast (kingdoms and rulers spanning over generations) 5 had already fallen before John with 2 plus one to come and these fallen where under the reigns of MB before John.
11And I saw another beast rising out of the earth (land, soil, regions, countries) and it had two horns like a lamb, and it was speaking like a dragon. 12And it exercises all the authority of the first beast in the presence of it (the second beast is in the presence of the first beast from the sea), and causes the earth and those dwelling in it, that they will worship the first beast (consisting of multiple kings/kingdoms with 5 that have already fallen), of whom its fatal wound had been healed. 13And it works great signs, so that it should even cause fire out of heaven to come down to the earth in the presence of men. 14And it deceives those dwelling on the earth, by reason (By convincing them) of the signs that were given to it to perform before the beast, telling those dwelling on the earth to make an image (exact reflection or replication, something in it's likeness.1504 eikṓn (from 1503 /eíkō, "be like") – properly, "mirror-like representation," referring to what is very close in resemblance, like a "high-definition" projection, as defined by the context. Jesus uses this same word when describing Caesar's imprint on the coin/money shown to him when asked about paying taxes by the Jews. Just some food for thought in regards to the coin with Caesar's image on it. The image of a man...) to the beast that has the wound of the sword and has lived. 15And there was given to it to give breath (same word used for spirit) to the image of the beast, so that image of the beast also should speak, and should cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast would be killed. 16And it causes all the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the servants, that it should give them a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17and that no one should be able to buy or to sell, if not the one having the mark—the name of the beast, or the number of its name. 18Here is the wisdom. The one having understanding, let him count the number of the beast, for it is a man’s number, and its number is six hundred sixty-six. <<<The mark (stamp, imprint, seal, more than likely a spiritual marking, like those who are marked on their foreheads as saints) is of the image/reflection/resemblance of a man.
We know in chapter 17 Jesus overcomes the first beast but the second beast is in the presence of the first beast. My point in the things I am pointing out is that the book of Revelation is not a linear book and the events do not happen in a linear sequence or order. The book of Revelation is not 2D but multidimensional and revealed by our Creator of many many dimensions. There is no greater evidence of this than when looking at the beast and how they are described and the roles in which they are in and the spans of time that they exist. Revelation is not a book of gloom and doom, it is a revelation of redemption, conquering through Christ and His sacrifice and the final plan to make all things new.
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Post by cwood85 on Mar 4, 2019 21:21:12 GMT -6
Back to the original topic there are some translations that translate this a little differently:
The beast that thou didst see: it was, and it is not; and it is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go away to destruction, and wonder shall those dwelling upon the earth, whose names have not been written upon the scroll of the life from the foundation of the world, beholding the beast that was, and is not, although it is.
I have italicized and bolder the words of interest in this verse. Most translations cut out the word THE before the word LIFE. It’s there in the Greek. We also think of the word book as a “book” with all the names of everyone who ever lived which would be huge (metaphorically speaking) but the word here means little or small book. It is the diminutive of the Greek word Biblios for a book or scroll of substance and volume, the word here is biblion, which more means like a personal sized scroll or small notebook type of a book/scroll and can also means writing.
Can I ask a question that may be difficult. Why do we assume or connect that the book of life is referring to ones salvation? If we follow a beast kingdom (which is made up of kings and kingdoms as explained multiple times in Revelation) we do not have salvation? These beast are spoken of as happening throughout history, such as 5 fallen and some more yet to come. So in allll of that span of time and years of 5 kingdoms that have already come, this is referencing to salvation by being blotted out of the book? This is not entirely a future event. It doesn’t say this is related to salvation though. There is no reference to salvation. This is the Lambs Book of the life. Salvation is the forgiveness of sins by clearing the debt of sin. But following a beast is a way to overcome what Jesus has achieved. We cannot say or read this as being a future event because verse 10 tells us 5 of the 7 kings have already ruled:
9This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; 10they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.
I am just trying to understand where this connection stems from because I don’t see it as the way this verse is written, this is a continuous process.
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Post by cwood85 on Mar 4, 2019 16:45:43 GMT -6
cwood85 Are you suggesting that the tombs opened at the crucifixion and the dead stayed in the tomb, raised/alive until he rose 3 days later? That might mean that no one noticed the dead were raised until they entered the city? If I am reading you correctly, that could play a major major implication on the rapture as the dead in Christ rise first. Imagine if no one noticed... OK Maybe I'm down the rabbit hole and I'm confused - Selah. <<<< Your not the only one who is confused lol I am simply putting out what scriptures say. And they say that right after the veil tore at the temple immediately after Jesus does, from Top to bottom at that, the dead saints rose from their tombs and went into The holy city With Christ Resurrection. It does not say Jerusalem which was where they were at, just holy city and appeared to many. The word holy here is the same that is used for Holy Spirit. From Bible hub:set apart by (or for) God, holy, sacred; hágios) implies something "set apart" and therefore "different (distinguished/distinct)" – i.e. "other," because special to the Lord.] just some more things to confuse you lol....
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Post by cwood85 on Mar 4, 2019 15:36:05 GMT -6
Is he not referring to the parable of Lazarus and the rich man? Luke 16 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Now, I've been taught not to establish doctrine based on parables, but rather to use doctrine to interpret parables. However, most Christians believe that pre-cross & ressurection, "Abraham's Bosom" was the "Paradise Jesus referred to, and that Sheol was a place of torment (part of it). Actually, Sheol is a "place of the dead"...for both righteous and unrighteous. "Abraham's Bosom" & "Hades" might be a better distinction between the two places separated by a "gulf". 23 And in hell (Hades) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Hades is a transliteration from the Hebrew Sheol or grave, realm of the dead, etc. which is what you said above, but I want to point out something interesting. The word Paradise is fascinating in its meaning: 3857 parádeisos – an ancient Persian word meaning "enclosure, garden, park. ; a park, a garden, a paradise.
The garden where we are in the midst of God. Remember the lamb was slain before the creation of the world, outside of our time: ...the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world. -Rev 3:8.
And also something else here that is very very interesting with the sequence of events occuring at the crucifixion and my comment above about Jesus being outside of space/time and etc: 50And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit (Life, Breath). 51And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split. 52The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many. <<< Do you see that!!!! The saints came out of the tombs at his resurrection?!? The very next verses however describe his burial and that his resurrection does not happen for another three days so how do they rise right after his crucifixion because of his resurrection?? We see in the very next verses that the dead who rose freaked people out! Matthew is the only gospel that gives this detail of the dead rising. 54Now the centurion, and those who were with him keeping guard over Jesus, when they saw the earthquake and the things that were happening, became very frightened and said, “Truly this was the Son of God!”
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Post by cwood85 on Mar 4, 2019 12:38:23 GMT -6
First of all nice to meet you servant! Yes, in the OT, when people died, they do not go to Heaven but to Abraham's bosom and the unrepentant sinners go to the Sheol. <<<< This sounds a lot like purgatory? Sheol means grave, as in a grave dug in the ground or what was considered more honorable back then, a stone tomb above ground or a type of cave. Same thing when pit is being referenced to in the bible. We have always gone to the same places upon death, there are not two separate realms for one set of people and a different location for another.
18For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.After Jesus's sacrifice, the saved goes to Heaven and the unrepentant sinners go to Hell. <<<< All will hear the gospel, even the dead have and are hearing the gospel now. Jesus is outside of time and is not in a linear way of thinking and acting like we are.
"but they will give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. 6For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God."
12For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves,I remember reading from Gary's article about the old law which everyone broke because of our sinful nature. And then Jesus had to die to fulfill the law. Higher standards, like Jesus said, if you plan evil in your heart, you already committed a sin before acting on that. Greater reward meaning better relationship with Heavenly Father and Son, Heaven, etc. Those who are unrepentant are getting severe punishment, cut off from God, Son and Heaven, and to Hell. That why people had harder time to stop sinning without Christ in their hearts in OT. In the NT, people can either stop sinning or refrain with the Christ in their hearts. <<<<<It is important to keep in mind the law was never intended for us to be able to fulfill, only Christ. There has never been a period where people sinned less or more or had a harder time doing so. Abraham directly disobeyed God more than once before there ever was the law. Trying to conceive a son by his own means instead of trusting Gods plan, and lying to the Pharaoh when he said his wife was his sister and the Pharaoh tried to marry her. David was an adulterer and a murderer, Solomon was a man whore. All of us have evil in our heart. Repentance means to have a change of heart and mindset, not to try and stop sinning more. No one accomplishes that no matter how hard they try.
10“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11“The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12‘I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ 13“But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ 14“I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Repentance is to understand that we are a sinner, not to show or try to be the best a sinning the least. To humble ourselves in realizing we cannot save ourselves from our sin, God did that through Jesus.
I noticed that in the OT, sins tend to receive harsh punishment, like if you injure someone in the eye, you lose your eye. In the NT, its about forgiveness, etc. The laws purpose was to show that we in our own acts, deeds, and works cannot fulfill it. Looking to Jesus gives us peace with our sins knowing He has overcome them all.
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Post by cwood85 on Mar 1, 2019 11:28:29 GMT -6
2 Peter 2: 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. Yep... That pretty much sums it up for me. 2 Peter 2 is absolutely stating here that you can lose your salvation after you "escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" The result of "not known the way of righteousness" is hell. <<< That is absolutely inserted and implied by you! Peter is NOT talking about hell not losing salvation by turning away from the knowledge. He saying the individuals who do so will wallow in their own filth! Our filth is sin. By turning away a person is looking to themselves for salvation instead of understanding that God is salvation. Whether they turn back to works, rituals, following the law and doing sacrifices again to atone for their sin, idols, it all leads to wreckage and misery. He is talking in the present tense not future tense of bad decisions and their consequences. Not eternal anything. What's worse than hell for those who first "escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ" and then "after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."? Deeper Hell? <<<<< Deeper Hell? That’s new for me....By inserting hell or loss of salvation into every consequence discussed and explained by the apostles, the gospel has been seriously marred and twisted. This leads to fear led belief and it is VERY WRONG! If God demands us to dance or face the consequences, sure we will dance, but not because we want to or enjoy it or because it makes us love Him more, but because our life depends on it and we are scared out of our minds if we don’t. That is not how God operates. He doesn’t place His salvation through Jesus in our hand and says take it or leave it or tries to convince us and accepts defeat when many do not believe and then out of anger from being defeated by our foolish human will sends us to eternal torment. I’ll probably get some backlash for this, but so be it. I have come to the understanding the Lord did not make me bold to stay quiet. Because when I am quiet I get the quiet back... Paul who repeatedly calls himself the WORST sinner of them all and not out of modesty or being overly humble, was knocked flat to the ground by a bright light and a voice. Jesus did not tell Paul who he was, he didn’t have to because just from the light and the voice of Jesus, Paul cried out Lord Lord! Paul couldn’t even lift his face! One day we are all going to meet Jesus in that way and not one of us will have the willpower to deny WHO HE IS or to lift our face!! And because God himself says this is His will and it will absolutely happen and everyone will believe. “ that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
For it is written, " AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD." 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.Jesus means God is salvation and not God tries to convince us of His salvation. “For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.”
I am going to give some testimony. I will try to keep it short and with what I have experienced in just these past 18 or so months I could probably write a book. But it is now apparently 2 am lol so I will do my best... The Lord works with all of us in different ways and opens our eyes and hearts to understandings when He is ready for us to see and know. We don’t understand jack until he wants us to and I think a lot of that is sometimes based on the state of our heart and level of our pride and if we truly let ourselves be humbled. I don’t believe in hell in any form and believe all will be made new again, in its proper time and order as deemed and planned by the Lord. Heretic? No. Crazy? Well maybe, but that's ok. A little over a year ago the Lord showed me a thing or two about His absolute and neverending forgiveness, love, grace and mercy. And not just for me, but for many others. At first this was done in a very hurtful way. So hurtful in fact I tried to take my life from the truth that I had been dealt. Depression was something I had dealt with for years and after my second was born, postpartum depression gripped me like the blackest icy cold water imaginable. It consumed every aspect of my life. Much of this depression stems from a tumultuous childhood and crumbled family relationships. I was told a truth so bad and so evil about my father it confirmed to me that the majority of my childhood was a lie. Everything that I thought was safe and ok, was a horrible lie. What I learned on that day made me realize my father should be in prison and never allowed to be around children ever. It doesn’t take much imagination to understand what I am implying he did, to me and my two younger sisters. He had admitted this to my mother one night drunk apparently, and she immediately fled from her home and marriage with him and never looked back. They were married for over 25 years. My sisters and I were all grown and no longer at home at this point. On the day this was explained to me, I cracked. My soul had had enough and my heart had been ripped out and thrown to ravenous demons. I responded by taking enough Norco to put down an elephant. Only by a miracle I somehow called 911 before completely fading. I don’t remember doing this and only remember waking up in an ambulance getting narcan injections and the paramedics shaking the crap out of me to get me breathing again and to wake up. When you do this sort of thing you are involuntarily put into a mental hospital for a bit. The first few days were absolute hell. The hell I had caused myself by doing something very foolish. My wreckage and destruction if you will. The deeper level of hell, maybe one of the deepest. How much lower does one get than to try and take their life? To come to the understanding that I would and now have, I much later on realized this experience was all a bit of a necessity and of a larger picture. I will explain this further. I ate maybe three bites of food the first couple of days I was there and just stayed covered on the cot type bed that is bolted to the floor. During my stay though, God showed me some of that light. It’s the only way I made it out of there. He showed me through many mentally ill, dangerous and even just flat out crazy people (yes I can say that because I witnessed many of them) and the number one thing that had driven almost every single soul in there was a lack of love being shown to them. In their pursuit of love and trying to be good enough to receive love, it resulted in very destructive behaviors and actions. These were either inflicted upon others or towards themselves. A big part of the treatment program was group sessions. There were a lot of tears shed by everyone in these sessions, from those who confessed their pains and torments and from those listening. I commend those who work in this line of work, because I could not. This place held the degenerates of society, the cast offs, the absolute unloved, the foolish, the weak and timid, transgenders, muslims, anyone that is easy to hate and they unfortunately more times than not are. By day 5 or so I was eating, showering, and being responsive instead of a numb shell. My husband had also brought me my bible to read during down times. You are very limited on what you are able to do. Ironically however, I didn't read very much of my bible because everyone else wanted it. There was a 19-year-old transgender young man looking at it and skimming through some of my bible one day at the hospital, saying he had never looked through a bible before. This was during a break period and him and I were in a common area having some hot decaf coffee (no caffeine for crazy people apparently lol) He asked me, doesn't God hate people like me and want me to go to hell for the things I do and how I am as he slowly paged through the bible while never taking his eyes off it when he asked. I replied that no, God does not hate you and will not send you to hell for the things you do and who you are. God loves you no matter what and that people want these things because it elevates them as less of a sinner than you. It makes them feel better about themselves. But we are all sinners and God does not put different levels to our sin as worse than another and that is why Jesus died on the cross because no one is better than another and no one can do better than another. God never gives up on us. He looked up and said no one has ever said anything like that to me before, they just judge or mock me. Tears welled up in my eyes at the pain that was very apparent in his. This was not the time to tell him to repent! Turn from your sin and believe or else! Not the time to scare him into believing and trying to convince him like a cheap car salesman. No, he just needed to know that he is loved by our Father when the rest of the world has turned its back on him. Faith is trusting that God will take care of this young man and that it is not up to me to try to do that for God. This young man looked like a linebacker, was over six feet tall, stocky build, sharp features on his face was trying to grow long brown hair, wore pink every chance he got and was going through hormone therapy to soften his features to look more feminine. He had confessed previously to a couple of us that he was in the hospital for cutting and harming himself terribly all over his body. He was miserable and alone. As a child his father forced him into many sports to play in and was cruel to him when he did not win or what his father considered didn’t try hard enough. He abused and broke him for not wanting to do something this young man was being forced to do. He was a product of his environment, the result of control, cruelty and abuse. He said becoming more feminine was a way for him to get out of being forced to sports only to win and being manlier. He was rebelling against his father who was making him dance and a dance that he did not want to participate in or was even invited to. Dance or else…. Do what I say or be destroyed and suffer. That was his “love” as a child. It came with conditions. I cannot tell you all the horrific things I have read or even heard about what people say God thinks of people who are gay or transgender. Disgusting things such as “ It must be so hard for God to love someone who does such gross and vile things” or that "it must be really hard for a person like this to receive salvation and they probably barely make it if they do….” And even worse we boldly to their faces refuse to service them or make them a cake for being a "worse" sinner than us or not complacent to our beliefs. From the mouths of those who confess to be Christians! Shame on us for believing in and portraying our Lord to be so helpless and weak! No wonder people run from and avoid churches and God. Many in the hospital had very similar stories of similar context. A young single mother who was very erratic, explosive, wild and a nymphomaniac. She was terribly raped at a very young age and during her stay in the hospital had to be completely separated from the men because she became like their shadow if they showed any interest in her. This happened one day by her flipping out and being cornered by the staff, sedated, and drug to her room because she would not stop acting inappropriately with a certain young man. During our group sessions she would non-stop pace the rooms, sometimes stop to blurt out a comment or response to what was being discussed, but no more than that. If she became agitated or stressed, she would run out of the room and disappear for the rest of the day. One of these times she did this, I heard someone say to another that the girl acted so crazy that she must be possessed. What they did not see was at every meal, this young lady said a prayer for several minutes thanking God for the food was about to eat and that she hoped her son was doing well while she was away from him and how sorry she was that she was not there for him. I learned later that her sons name was the same as mine and they were about the same age on a day she sat down beside me out of the blue and started to talk to me about all kinds of things in erratic and messy sentences of her story. It was obvious that this was not easy for her to do, even talk about how much she loved her son. It was clear that whatever all had happened to her had completely broken her. Society however would refer to her has a whore or worse. There were many more like this young woman as well. Woman who had went nuts on their husbands because they found out that they had been constantly cheating on them for years, a young man who had the mental capacity of a 10 year old and was illiterate, busted out the windows of his “best friends” car and then tried jumping into oncoming traffic because they shared a house with a few other “friends” and all the utilities were in this young mans name. No one would pay him their share and had taken advantage of him or constantly and lied to him. But like a child, he did whatever he could to try and gain their acceptance and attention. He never knew his father and his mother had passed when he was a teenager. He had no one and the world was failing him constantly. When it was time for him to be discharged, he cried silent tears as he left from terror. He was terrified to be taken to an empty house where he was more than likely getting evicted from and all his “friends” not being there because he no longer could pay their bills for them. In the hospital he got three meals a day, showers, a bed, and a roof over his head. He doubted he would have any of that once he was dropped off by a taxi service and had been homeless before. My heart broke so much for him. There was a lot of down time during my stay there as well which lead to a lot of thinking and praying. One of the times that I did have my bible, I noticed someone had marked a verse with a pencil and the page with a torn paper tab from a piece of construction paper. 4Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.
I continued to read beyond what they had marked. 8Prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever! 9Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture! 10But when the time of perfection comes, these partial things will become useless….
…13Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love.As I read these verses, God shined that blinding light on me. It is the light of truth and more times than not, the truth hurts and is hard to accept. Would He make these people suffer more after this life? Would he deny them, forsake them while they suffer so much already? Will he say you had your chance and blew it or made the wrong choice and there are no more chances? If the transgender man died the day of his release say in a car accident, would he be damned to hell from never seeing but more than a few pages of a bible? Did I wrong him by not convincing him to accept Jesus as his savoir right at that moment as he paged through my bible seeking any form of comfort he could possibly get? God will never give up on us. Love wins and it keeps no record of being wronged. We humans cannot achieve that last part when we are wronged to completion. No matter how hard we try, we cannot erase being wronged. Only God can do that and only God has control of our salvation. Not us. There is no sin greater than God. Jesus conquered it all. He conquered what my father did to me and my sister as children, drugging us so we would not remember. He conquered my feeble attempt at trying to control my destiny, saving myself and avoiding a very bad situation. He conquered my depression, pain and misery. By a power more powerful than any power ever known and only one that God can fully display and give. Love.
It was this understanding of the power of love that led me to forgive my father to the best of my ability. God has already conquered my father’s terrible actions by forgiving him through love. Yes, the pain and hurt is still there and I do not see him very often. I am uncomfortable with him being around my children. We do talk on the phone sometimes and our conversations are pleasant, not forced or awkward. In all honesty I do not think my father would do these things today. One because of his failing health, but secondly because back then he was a drunk and addicted to pain medication. He does neither of those things now. He is however suffering terribly from his actions. His family has nothing to do with him and he has lost practically everything. I saw him a few months ago and he looks terrible and has lost a lot of weight. He lives alone and is constantly haunted by his own destruction. My father however had a horrid childhood. His father left him and his mother on his 11th birthday party. Showed up drunk and said he was leaving. My fathers mother jumped from man to man after getting a divorce. Many men who were cruel and evil to my father and his siblings. One of them sexually abused my father and his mother punished my father when he tried to tell her what had happened. He has never told anyone what happened or who did it, just that it was very bad. Our sin and filth are a constant cycle of cause and effect. I am not saying this as an excuse anyone and God handles and judges us for our actions and decisions, but when we step back and look at the bigger picture, this is exactly what Jesus died on the cross for. The poor, the rejects of society, the transgenders, perverts, those who in His days on this earth were tied up in chains by themselves and left in a cave. Those who are unlovable and in our eyes deserve the worst of punishments. Salvation cannot be lost, it was never ours to obtain and decide to keep in the first place. God did the work, it IS finished. This is where God is glorified, when we realize and fully comprehend the full meaning of: “The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” <<<< 2889 kósmos (literally, "something ordered") – properly, an "ordered system" (like the universe, creation); the world. the world, universe; worldly affairs; the inhabitants of the world; adornment.
…the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
It was finished before it was even started. Amen. I have never shared this in so much detail with anyone except for a very few close friends and the only people who know this about me in full is my husband and immediate family. I hope anyone who is fretting over their salvation or in bewilderment finds something in all of this. Seek Gods face, not mans boxed in theologies and teachings and requirements for salvation.
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Post by cwood85 on Feb 16, 2019 20:56:15 GMT -6
uscgvetWhat mike posted was from Jesus to his directions to the apostles right after His resurrection which was before Acts. The apostles had a hard time or did not go directly to the Gentiles because to them through the upbringing through the law continued to think of gentiles as unclean. Because Jesus died and rose for the sins of the world that is why God showed Peter the vision of the animals on the sheet. So yes at that point in Acts it was shown to the apostles that gentiles were on the same level. They needed a visual I guess lol. But Jesus had told them otherwise before Peter had the vision. Honestly I cannot imagine what a whirlwind of an experience and emotional roller coaster that was to try and keep up with for the apostles.
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Post by cwood85 on Feb 15, 2019 14:01:54 GMT -6
Really help me to understand this. "I came for the lost sheep of Israel" This is suggesting that God is exclusive, racist, and prejudice. I just do not see this as a character of the Lord. what is a sheep? A sheep is a herd animal, and unlike any of the other domestic herd animals such as cattle and goats. They seek comfort in numbers and do not do well when singled out on their own. The BIG aspect of a sheep is their desire to FOLLOW for safety and sustenance. He was coming for those LOST, BLINDED, misled, faithless sheep whom He had demonstrated for 4000 years what it was to FOLLOW Him or not. Of course the gentile was a term to apply to a human who was not of this line of people whom were entrusted with the Law. Yes, Jesus had to be born, WALK, die and Rise according to God's established LAW shown thru a group of poeple. But FAITH is the core meaning of this event, not refusal or denial by the Lord to even care for one of his created souls. There are plenty of non-jew persons in the OT that were counted as righteous for their faith. First one I can think of is the story of the scarlet threads that were place outside the window so that those within the household would be spared for that woman and her family. I cannot recall her name. But, she was not a jew. She knew of or HEARD the power of "their" God and seeked the same protection. Ahh... No... Gentiles were, prior to Acts 10, considered unclean, thus, ungodly, or "little dogs" as Jesus puts it. Ezekiel 36:24-27 spells this out..... And just a few chapters before Matt 15 we read: Matthew 10: 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Jesus was sent to the Jews... Jesus commanded his apostles to also only go to the Jews... NOT the Gentiles, during his earthly ministry. Even in Acts, after the stoning of Stephen: Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. If apostles went to the gentiles, they would have been in direct violation to the King of King's ORDERS to avoid the unclean gentiles. <<< I am unaware of any verses that pertain to this? Unless you are referring to the verse about Jesus coming to the lost sheep of Israel? Just making sure I understand.Peter was the first to go to gentiles in Acts 10 because God Himself intervened and "cleaned" the unclean gentiles. That was what Peter's dream/vision from God was all about. And Rahab the harlot became an Israelite because Jesus is a direct descendant from her through her son Boaz (the kinsman-redeemer). uscgvetThis needs to be taken into consideration: 11“I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. 12“He who is a hired hand, and not a shepherd, who is not the owner of the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. 13“He flees because he is a hired hand and is not concerned about the sheep. 14“I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, 15even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16“I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.
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Post by cwood85 on Feb 13, 2019 17:11:34 GMT -6
Yes as I pointed above about when we try it, things go boom lol! The combination of the chemicals is not hard in theory, but it is extremely dangerous. What we cannot do is make enough water for it to be useful, like drinking water for countries without access to clean water or water to fill dying lakes or bodies of water. Without moving this off into a new direction ....
The "dying lakes or bodies of water" or even just supplying "access to clean water" is a major concern -- right now.
Heck, right now out in "USA West" -- fresh water is "fighting rights" among many of the western states.
And, the number of countries that do not have "access to clean water" -- is really shocking.........
Unfortunately, many people (especially here in the USA) -- think someone is "a liberal, tree-hugging, leftist" if the simply mention we all need to conserve and protect our fresh water supplies.....
check out this fact
in 2018 Nestle, had been extracting and exporting up to 250 gallons a minute from a well in Evart, Michigan. Nestle filed for a new permit that would allow the company to pump 400 gallons of water each minute of the day, 365 days a year.
Here are some fun water facts link
Thing is we (everyone) should be alarmed at the rate we are going through our fresh water supply.....
That Nestle deal is disgusting. I live in Michigan and no resident here was happy or wanted that at all. Many fought against it very diligently. Our Lakes are already polluted and mistreated so badly already and now it’s also ok to suck the fresh water out to bottle and resell it... bottled water is the biggest and greediest scam.
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Post by cwood85 on Feb 13, 2019 13:29:04 GMT -6
this is a very interesting thread. never really thought about it before. On the first verse of Genesis, I was thinking 'bohoo'(void) could also be translated 'chaos' or 'chaotic', which, to me goes right along with 'without form'. As an artist, if I want to make something with clay, I mix dry clay powder with water and make a lump...without form, and chaotic! So, in the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, was when he made the clay powder(so to speak) and the water. That's just how I always pictured it in my mind, I don't really know. but as for the making of water, I have to disagree. We can make water from hydrogen and oxygen, it's just not feasible in large quantities.
Yes as I pointed above about when we try it, things go boom lol! The combination of the chemicals is not hard in theory, but it is extremely dangerous. What we cannot do is make enough water for it to be useful, like drinking water for countries without access to clean water or water to fill dying lakes or bodies of water.
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Post by cwood85 on Feb 12, 2019 14:26:46 GMT -6
1In the beginning of God’s preparing the heavens (haš-šā-ma-yim) and the earth(hā-’ā-reṣ.) — 2the earth (wə-hā-’ā-reṣ), hath existed waste and void, and darkness [is] on the face of the deep (ṯə-hō-wm; deep, sea, abyss), and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters (ham-mā-yim.), I like this young's literal translation here, and look at the root word used for heavens: has-sa-mayim, face of the waters: ham-mayim It could be then that the waters are contained within the 'heavens' creation. But also note the use of the word preparing.. this will lead to my point about the first 3 verses of Genesis not being what we all thought it has been about, which is the making of planet earth and the starry heavenly realm... But first let me ask, could it be that verse 1 of Genesis is a statement of Truth and the following verses an elaboration? Just a thought... but here is something that I have pondered which is along the lines to kjs' thinking: Maybe verses 2 and 3 have nothing to do with the "creation" of the earth and seas and atmospheres, but something else: There is something else that is not commanded into existence, and that appears to be "darkness." We are only told that darkness was on the face of the abyss, and that the Spirit of God was fluttering on the face of the waters.. Is this literal or are we looking at something much "deeper" here? If water always was, and darkness was too, it is telling me that God is the mediator between them. But, based on the Hebrew words for heaven (mayim) , perhaps the waters are inclusive of "heaven" and we see the Spirit being that which "flutters" on the face of said waters...to separate the darkness, but not being part of the darkness. Me and my wordiness are not making my point: Heavens=waters=Spirit, and the Spirit seperates (sets it apart from) the Darkness, in this picture presented in verse 2. But God does more in regards to this darkness: He creates a situation of Light... 3and God saith, ‘Let light be;’ and light is. 4And God seeth the light that [it is] good, and God separateth between the light and the darkness, 5and God calleth to the light ‘Day,’ and to the darkness(darkness, obscurity) He hath called ‘Night;’ and there is an evening, and there is a morning — day one.The 'sun" and "moon" were not created yet, not even until the 4th day...so what is this source of Light that is good? and John tells us this to back up my point: 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.Are we really seeing a picture of the creation of the planet and the solar system, or are we seeing the creation of the situation between God and darkness, which is, namely Promise of the Lord Jesus Christ? I am not suggesting that Christ is being created here, as He was and Is and Is to Come..but this "event" was performed by God for the very purpose of his ways and means are a pattern and a plan and a purpose, and He relayed this to Moses this way. we go on to learn more about "water" and there is more elaboration on the heavens. So, when we get to this part of Genesis, I am thinking in actual literal existances of bodies of water, land masses, etc... 6And God saith, ‘Let an expanse be in the midst of the waters, and let it be separating between waters and waters.’ 7And God maketh the expanse, and it separateth between the waters which [are] under the expanse, and the waters which [are] above the expanse: and it is so. 8And God calleth to the expanse ‘Heavens;’ and there is an evening, and there is a morning — day second.
9And God saith, ‘Let the waters under the heavens be collected unto one place, and let the dry land be seen:’ and it is so. 10And God calleth to the dry land ‘Earth,’ and to the collection of the waters He hath called ‘Seas;’ and God seeth that [it is] good.
It is just food for thought, and who would ever think there is so much more going on than just words on a piece of paper? IN agreement with you kjs , I think the "waters" is WAY more significant than just a place where we go boating, catch fish and hydrate our bodies.. Darkness is the absence of light. Darkness is not something created, only an absence of light. A shadow is the blocking or obstruction of light. Maybe the light that was created is this: All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the Lamb's book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world. -Rev 13:8 NIV
And bow before it shall all who are dwelling upon the land, whose names have not been written in the scroll of the life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world; -Rev 13:8 YLT
3and God saith, ‘Let light be;’ and light is. 4And God seeth the light that [it is] good, and God separateth between the light and the darkness, 5and God calleth to the light ‘Day,’ and to the darkness(darkness, obscurity) He hath called ‘Night;’ and there is an evening, and there is a morning — day one. ^^^In other words there is a state of being in the light or a state of being in the absence of light, darkness. God who is our Salvation is that bridge out of the darkness into the light. In all of our technologies and advancements, we still cannot create water. I don't think we will ever be able to. We can recycle it, change its state (solid, liquid, gas), manipulate it, but cannot take 2 Hydrogen atoms and combine them with an oxygen atom to create water. We can split an atom and create a devastating and deadly nuclear explosion, but cannot combine atoms to create life giving water. All of our attempts to try and manipulate and control the elements in the same way that God does, results in destruction either immediately or later on in the long run. I think water in these first few verses represent life itself, which later in scriptures it is referred in this way many many times. The living waters, the stream of living waters, when Jesus says "...I can give you water so you never thirst again...." and so on. The living water was there but it did not come to give or bare life until after the light was created and was shone on it. In darkness there was nothing that was LIVING yet. And so we see this as barbiosheepgirl pointed out above: 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was in the beginning with God.
3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. (darkness is absence of light, it is non existent or not was created so it cannot comprehend anything). The Word, Jesus, Logos, Life, Light was how God made the waters bring into existence the land, foliage, fruits, vegetables, plants, animals, sea life, births, insects, and lastly us through the light by His Word. 60% of our body is water. God created the world, space, time and everything in 6 days. Nothing can live without water and most things cannot live without light. Except for those few odd creatures that live deep in caves or at the deepest trenches of the ocean, but they still have to have water. His Word/Life/Jesus is the light we LIVE through. There is our life we live now in the waters below the expanse/heavens that is divided or separated into both earth(Adame/our flesh/sin) and the sea. The life we will live after the resurrection, when our curse is no more (which was accomplished at the cross and everything in its time will happen), and the only thing left IS life because death will be gone. When God is all in all (the waters above the expanse) and the division of the waters is removed between the expanse there is only the living waters that are left. Life. These living waters are offered freely as we see in John and Revelation: "he who is believing in me, according as the Writing said, Rivers out of his belly shall flow of living water;' John 7:381Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3No longer will there be anything accursed (our curse is death from sin), but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. 4They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5And night (darkness is gone, only light and life REMAINS!) will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.Ironically there was the discovery recently of the fountain of the deep that resides in a particular type of stone deep below the crust. It is a vivid and iridescent sapphire color made up of many layers that hold a lot of water. It is believed this layer of stone is under the entire earth. When this stone is compressed, water comes out and it is believed that there is over 10x the amount of water in our current oceans in these deep layers of water filled stone. Well that is my .02 on the meanings of the Waters above and the waters below in scripture and to add a little to what Barb laid out so well above EDITED & ADDED A FEW MORE DETAILS ^^^^^^^^
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Post by cwood85 on Feb 7, 2019 9:17:51 GMT -6
“He did this without any prejudice or questioning and never once refused someone. There was not a conversation first of what sins they had done throughout their life and which ones they repented of or didn’t. He praised those who had faith, but never turned anyone away. I would argue that these passages would disagree... Matthew 15:21-28 Mark 7:24-30 At what point did He refuse her? The disciples tried to avoid her. He made a statement to her, but did he question her lifestyle, past sins and etc? He was making a point, especially to those observing. Do you think if she would have given a different answer to his statement that Jesus would have refused to heal her daughter of the demon?
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Post by cwood85 on Feb 6, 2019 13:12:22 GMT -6
“First want to be extremely clear … I try to never “Judge Someone” on whether they are a Christian (A real Believer) or NOT … however, I do admit to “WONDERING” on their said salvation status (these are people who claim they are believers and are therefore saved). For example a male individual claims to be a believer (believes he is SAVED). However, action-wise – seems a bit in left field (so to speak)…. Examples include cussing up a storm, in daily conversations (as regular everyday language). Is very sexually active and literally brags about each of his weekly new partners.
Cases like these make me “wonder” – I really do not know if he is saved or not. I suspect he is not – But I do not know. He says he is Saved (and he knows Jesus Christ suffered and died for all of us and raised again). So technically, you could say “He Believes” – But is it really “saving faith” – that I cannot say.”
Solomon was like today’s Gene Simmons as far as promiscuity and women goes... and God loved him dearly. Solomon paid the consequences for his actions however.
David murdered to be adulterous and pursue his pleasure.
The adulterous who was caught in the act and placed before Jesus was comforted by Him in assuring her that she was not condemned or stood accused.
It is hard for us humans to see beyond physical appearance and actions because that is all we can see. We think inside a box and in the moment.
I was reading an article the other day about these dragqueen story hours being done at libraries for small children to be read to. The most recent being done by someone who refers to them self as Annie Christ. The comments on this article were disappointing to say in the least as far as the hate being spewed from mainly Christians. One Commented on how it must practically be impossible for transvestites and those who dress in drag to be saved by God because of how disgusting their lifestyle and actions are.... what little is believed to be possible with God.
When I read things like this however or of whether a person is really “saved” based on their lifestyle or actions, here is something to consider.
What was essentially the biggest and most frequently done actions by Christ while he walked the earth? What did Christ ask his disciples to do while spreading the gospel of the kingdom? The gospel before he had even been crucified.
Heal
He healed, restored, cured, cleansed and purified people of diseases, deformities, demons and evil spirits, and even death. He healed those who asked, those who did not, those who were unsure or were doubtful. He is so much pure life that just touching his garments cured and took away disease. He did not do this to prove who he was or because he felt bad for those with illnesses and demons. He did this without any prejudice or questioning and never once refused someone. There was not a conversation first of what sins they had done throughout their life and which ones they repented of or didn’t. He praised those who had faith, but never turned anyone away.
The heaing was the gospel physically being done and proclaimed.
As far as cussing goes... over the last couple of years what comes out of my mouth has cleaned up 110% but my internal voice is still struggling with keeping it clean sometimes. Way better than it used to be but every now and then I am still reprimanding myself at the words that pop into my head lol. An ongoing progress I guess.
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Post by cwood85 on Feb 5, 2019 21:14:49 GMT -6
kjs “Does that mean ALL who declare they believe in Jesus Christ are saved? <<<< This can get rather deep. Could this imply a different Jesus that they are referring to? Simply believing the name of Jesus and not acknowledging his sacrifice and resurrection? Or what if someone does believe in Jesus Christ the son of God who died on the cross and was raised from the dead and that all of that is true, but still try to overcome their constant sins, is that not enough belief or trust in him to be saved? NO, the belief is determined by what they are trusting .... Are they believing that if they forsake all their sins and promise to do better .... they are saved? <<<<< If they believe and begin trusting that Jesus died on the cross for their sins, but attend a church that is deeply rooted in doing works and good deeds as a support or proof of their salvation are they not saved?Probably NOT -- because they are not having BELIEF (trust) that Jesus Did it all and Paid it all -- to give them a FREE Gift....... How do we measure when someone believes enough or their trust is deep enough to be saved? Does the Bible give a measurement or standard for knowing that an individual trust and believes enough to be saved or ensures their salvation?They are still making deals (like trying to do better, or confess more, or....) which means they are still trusting in themselves is some ways.....” <<<<This could be an ongoing process. Maybe something that they grew up learning and are having a difficult time pulling away from and understanding that they do not need to do that to be saved. If they believe in Christ and all that he did for us, but continue to try and overcome and do better hoping to maybe prove themselves, feel better or that these actions ensure their salvation are they not saved? What if they get into a car accident minutes after understanding Christ died on the cross for their sins but pray that they will try to do better and not sin as much right before the accident, are they saved or unsaved at that point?^^^^ Help me out here with some clarification in regards to the above statements you made. My questions/comments are in color. I am not trying be arguementive or anything of that sort. However with the way some of the things are stated above, it sounds as if there is a high enough level of trusting and having faith before we are really saved or that this is a measurable belief and understanding before one truly acquires salvation. References to scriptures in regards to your statements would be greatly appreciated as well Editing to add: 23And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24“And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 25And when the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?” 26And looking upon them Jesus said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
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Post by cwood85 on Jan 29, 2019 12:23:35 GMT -6
This is interesting actually. I would need to research further into this and am not saying he is correct because all I am seeing is this quote that you have provided. I will look further into his message for more details. “John Paul Jackson referred to as a revelation from the Lord, he released a statement in 2008 called The Coming Perfect Storm. In this statement, he spoke of a time coming to America and the world in which economic, military, religious, political, and geophysical issues and events would occur in a relatively small period of time to make up a perfect storm of calamity. Jackson describes in detail the events that were revealed to him. "I saw the year 2010 was going to be very difficult, especially as you get further into 2010. I saw the year, I kept hearing an angel saying in a deep loud voice, 'The woes of 2012. The woes of 2012. The woes of 2012.' I don’t know what those woes are..... In a 2011 web video series called "The Perfect Storm Revisited", Jackson elaborated more on his original message......” 2008 was one of the worst years financially. The most foreclosures, job loss, poverty rising to record breaking levels aside from the Great Depression began in 2008. I worked in finances at that time through 2014 and let me tell you after 2008 things did not start getting better for several years. Many things have lined up in the years afterward that we are now seeing the result of today. Legalizing same sex marriage has brought on an explosion of transgender identity that is now being pushed on everyone more than ever. Bathrooms are changed to same sex, some drs are now no longer acknowledging make and female, in some countries of you accidentally acknowledge someone by the the sex opposite of what they decide to be that day, you can be fined or even jailed. The deep state during these years was also quickly growing and we see that exploding now that it is being exposed and uncovered for everyone to see. In 2012 gas prices were the highest The worst economic drop in history occurred Foreclosures were at an all time high Car companies (Gm, Ford, Chrysler) were on the verge of closing their doors for good The mass movie theater shooting happened Obama’s was re-elected And much more that we are still seeing the result from even today. 2012 was a pretty crappy year for the entire world. Again, I will look into his statements more, but there have been a very precise sequence of events militarily, religiously, politically, financially and on the civil level that we see crumbling apart today. He was not possibly 100 right, but he wasn’t really wrong either.
I have no need to "prove" John Paul Jackson was a false prophet or simply mistaken on what he "heard from God"....
But Let Us review a bit of history, to make sure we are all on the same page ........
March 2007, with the failure of Bear Stearns due to huge losses resulting from its involvement in having underwritten many of the investment vehicles directly linked to the subprime mortgage market, it became evident that the entire subprime lending market was in trouble. Homeowners were defaulting at high rates as all of the creative variations of subprime mortgages were resetting to higher payments while home prices declined. Homeowners were upside down - they owed more on their mortgages than their homes were worth - and could no longer just flip their way out of their homes if they couldn't make the new, higher payments. Instead, they lost their homes to foreclosure and often filed for bankruptcy in the process.
Despite this apparent mess, the financial markets continued higher into October of 2007, with the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) reaching a closing high of 14,164 on October 9, 2007. The turmoil eventually caught up, and by December 2007 the United States had fallen into a recession. By early July 2008, the Dow Jones Industrial Average would trade below 11,000 for the first time in over two years. That would not be the end of the decline.
On Sunday, September 7, 2008, with the financial markets down nearly 20% from the October 2007 peaks, the government announced its takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as a result of losses from heavy exposure to the collapsing subprime mortgage market. One week later, on September 14, major investment firm Lehman Brothers succumbed to its own overexposure to the subprime mortgage market and announced the largest bankruptcy filing in U.S. history at that time. The next day, markets plummeted, and the Dow closed down 499 points at 10,917.
Experts place the actual crash from end of September 2008 through October 2008; but as one can note from History – the actual start of the decline goes all the way back to December 2007.
SO pretty much the economy was tanking in the Late 2007 year. The USA was in a seemingly never ending war in both IRAQ and Afghanistan from the early 2000's.
Here is the definition of Perfect Storm by Mr. Jackson -- ""Perfect Storm - an event that is multiplied or intensified by the sum power, combination or synergy of events all happening at once or in near proximity. This event often results in unpredictable calamity."
Now Mr. Jackson made his statement (or revelation for the first time) in "Prophetic Bulletin" Jackson, John Paul (August 2008).
Part of the statement reads "The Storm will be made up of five elements: War, Politics, Economics, Religion and Geophysical Issues."
While you do a good job bring various "issues" over the 2008 -2012 time frame up -- NOT ONE combination brings everything (all five) up into a Perfect Storm.
Plus when you look at the "Timing" of the Crash -- the economy was already tanking back in 2007 --- hardly any "eye opening" that a Grade-School-er could not see coming.
NO, I think this gentlemen was simply trying to "ride the wave" of collapse -- that many had pointed out was coming.......
kjs " NO, I think this gentlemen was simply trying to "ride the wave" of collapse -- that many had pointed out was coming......." I think you are misunderstanding my thought process and perhaps I did not make myself very clear. My train of thought is unfortunately miles ahead of what I am writing or typing more often than not. I have to really slow myself down and backtrack to break down my train of thought into writing. I am not agreeing that he received a divine revelation or a future prediction, more like he did a good analysis of what was to come to a degree. Unfortunately the majority misuse and confuse the layered meaning of the word prophetic or prophecy. I believe Mr. Jackson is one who does this and then becomes fixated on that one singular meaning, which is foretelling future events. Like being a prophet makes someone a fortune teller... Prophecy does not just mean telling or revealing a future prediction or event. It also means to tell or reveal the truth, particularly the truth of God and only from God, not our own interpretations. >>Usage & definitions: 4394 prophēteía: prophecy, prophesying; the gift of communicating and enforcing revealed truth. προφητεία, προφητείας, ἡ (προφητεύω, which see), Hebrew נְבוּאָה, prophecy, i. e. discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden; especially by foretelling future events.Do I believe there are people who have this God given ability today? Yes, but I do not think that about Mr. Jackson's statements. "20But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."
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